White House Says U.S., Poland Working on Warplanes for Ukraine

[AntiFascist]

Source: Bloomberg

(Bloomberg) -- The U.S. is working with Poland and consulting with other NATO allies on possibly having those countries supply warplanes to Ukraine for use against Russian forces, a White House spokesperson said.

The idea, though rejected by several eastern European members of the alliance this week, was floated by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy during a video call with a large group of U.S. lawmakers on Saturday. Several said afterward that they support an aircraft transfer, which could involve Russian-made planes on which Ukrainian pilots are trained.

President Joe Biden’s administration is considering finding replacements for any fighter jets Poland might send from its fleet to Ukraine, the spokesperson said. The decision is Poland’s to make, the spokesperson said, adding that there are logistical and other challenges, including how to transfer aircraft from Poland to Ukraine.

snip...

The discussion involves the possibility of sending the countries, including Poland and Slovakia, F-16 fighter jets to replace what they send Ukraine, a person familiar with the matter said.



Read more: https://www.bloombergquint.com/politics/ukraine-s-leader-tells-u-s-lawmakers-to-back-warplanes-oil-ban

[blue-wave]

1. Just do it!!

[Hekate]

2. Good!

🌻🌻🌻

[SheltieLover]

3. Kicking for visibility

[trof]

4. If I could just even be 35 again.

I'm 80.

I was a fighter pilot in the late 60s, early 70s.
F-84
The swept wing
Look it up.

I would be in this in a New York minute.
Oh hell yeah.

[padah513]

10. Much respect!!!

[BlueWavePsych]

5. YES!

[NotHardly]

6. I may be cynical but if they are saying that to the American public..

... the deed is already done and planes are in the air as we speak.

Seriously, even the US is not stupid enough to show their cards
... although there was that whole Trump era but it was a joke from the start to the end.

[JohnSJ]

11. I would hope so. I was thinking that same thought

[Bev54]

20. I think it was done a few days ago, I remember someone asking Trudeau

last week about sending planes and he said they would have to come from Eastern Europe because the pilots are trained on those types of jets, not ours or the US. I got the feeling then, there was something in the works.

[Metaphorical]

7. I have to wonder

If the US is promising a 2 for one or something similar - send two Migs to Ukraine, we'll replace them with an F16 being retired in favor of new F35s. It gives the Ukrainians jets that they're familiar with, reinforces NATO's borders at a fraction of the cost of selling new aircraft, and extends the usefulness of increasingly obsolescence aircraft that would otherwise be too expensive to maintain. As #6 posted, it's likely already a done deal if we're hearing about it now.

[caraher]

17. I think that's exactly the plan

Poland is one of a few NATO countries operating MiG-29s that Ukrainian pilots and (just as importantly) support personnel know how to operate. They're slated for replacement soon, so a relatively non-disruptive and short-term effective move would be to send them east and accelerate the replacements.

[mysteryowl]

8. Good.

Also, I am glad they let all of us know.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

9. Good to hear

[oldsoftie]

12. I know its off topic, but WHY does Putin STILL have a Twitter account???

Yes, its called "President of Russia" or some such bullshit. But it needs to be BANNED

[Gore1FL]

13. Hold, up. Let me find it and tweet him to "fuck off" first! nt

[oldsoftie]

14. Please do! I'm not on twitter.

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[AllaN01Bear]

15. git off yer duff and do it man.

[ColinC]

16. The politico article suggested F-35s to replace them, not F-16s. Wonder which it is

[caraher]

19. Probably F-35s

They were slated to receive them already. I think the article mentioned both, but from a military-industrial complex perspective, moving F-35s is more attractive as the shiny new toy they want everyone flying.

[ColinC]

21. Will an f 35 beat an su35?

on edit: nvm found the info. I think the different types of jets is definitely advantageous in warfare.

https://eurasiantimes.com/pl-15-missiles-chinese-su-35-could-pose-a-challenge-to-f-35-or-f-22/

[Sapient Donkey]

28. Hopefully that won't be an engagement we see happen

The Ukrainians will be receiving Soviet/Russian planes that they know. If an F35 and SU35 square off then something went wrong and hope you have a sturdy school desk to duck under.

[oldsoftie]

30. Equipment is important. But pilot training is almost as important

And the US beats any communist country when it comes to training.

[Deminpenn]

24. F-16s

The US won't sell its most sophisticated aircraft to foreign countries. It's why F-14s were never sold, except to the Shah of Iran, to foreign countries.

Over the decades, F16s have been sold to many countries and already have the FMS supply and logistics chains in place. Also, Poland is currently flying F16s are trained on and familiar with them.

My guess would be the hold up is getting Congress/DoD to authorize additional FMS F16 sales to Poland.
It would be nice to get a few A-10s to Ukraine, too. A lot have already been retired, USAF wants to retire the ones that aren't and doesn't like the CAS role anyway.

[ColinC]

26. Oh yeah I remember seeing something about that

Thanks!

[Sapient Donkey]

27. The F-35 is sold to allies

I think Poland was planning on buying some anyway. Not sure if that’s what they are getting here, though. Some aging Soviet era planes for state the art F35s seems like a good deal for Poland. If it is the F35, I wonder if it would be a 1 for 1 deal

I don’t even think they are making new F-16. When I was working at a Lockheed plant where they made the F-16s, someone told me the limited production line for F-16s was just for sales to Taiwan. I was in IT and so was this person, so I don’t know how accurate that info was.


*edit

Oh looks like they reopened a line in NC. I thought that was really hard to do.

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2619834/air-force-opens-new-f-16-production-line-for-foreign-military-sales/

[Deminpenn]

33. Depends what they did with the tooling

I know some defense contractors just scrap the unique tooling when they close their production line instead of mothballing/storing it. Those companies and their custormers are then out of luck not only for new production, but spare parts, too.

General Dynamics has been making F16s for a long time and many countries have them as staples of their air forces. They might have been smart enough to keep the production tooling so they could re-open a production line if needed.

Been out the DoD game for awhile and not kept up with what configuration aircraft are for FMS these days.

[Bayard]

18. The story seems to change every time I look

First, Ukrainian pilots were in Poland picking up old MIG's.

Then, Poland's president came out and said, no--we're not doing that.

Now, we're back to doing it again.

[ColinC]

22. Still seems like a really solid "maybe"

I think Poland is trying to find a way to do it that best mitigates the risks to themselves. I think they want to, but don't want to leave themselves a completely open target to Russia.

[Deminpenn]

25. Ukraine flies the MiG-29

Neither country flies the older models they have and that might not even be operational or capable of being made opeartional.

[byronius]

23. Let's get it done already. Tick tick tick.

Frankly, 'guy with a nuke attacks peaceful democracy' says it all. Do this now and lose some good people or do it later and maybe lose everybody and everything. This should be axiomatic by now -- psychopathic gods need intervention early.

If we can't muster the political will to rise to this occasion, this occasion will rise to us -- and the next three generations will remember the lesson before the fourth one forgets it like us.

[gab13by13]

29. I hope it doesn't need Senate approval.

[oldsoftie]

31. How much training does a good MIG pilot need for an A-10?

Or a good Sukhoi pilot?
A-10s would really punch the Russians in the gut

[relayerbob]

32. Pilots aren't the problem

Support crew and parts are.

[Deminpenn]

34. Retired aircraft are usually the first source of

spare parts. Also, there are many companies that buy out obsolete parts specifically for the purpose of selling them back to the government/military when the need arises. It's a market segment unto itself. For those who might not know, the gattling gun on the A-10 shots ammo made from depleted uranium. The DU is so heavy, it goes right through tank armor.

[relayerbob]

35. And who will train the crews on the repairs mid war

To say nothing of the noise Putin would make for us shipping uranium into Ukraine. That would play straight into his propaganda machine.

[Deminpenn]

36. DU is spent uranium

Last edited Sun Mar 6, 2022, 04:26 PM - Edit history (1)

It can't be used to make a nuclear weapon if that's what you're implying.

You asked about repair parts, cannibalization of retired or damaged planes is common..

ETA, according to former Amb Kurt Volker, Ukrainian pilots are trained on the A-10s.

[relayerbob]

37. From my background, I am very well aware of what DU is

And it's not "spent", it has been centrifuged to separate the U-238 from the more fissile U-235 used for bombs, or enriched uranium reactor fuel. Sometimes separated from used reactor fuel, but that waste is heavily contaminated with fission byproducts that are far more radioactive than raw uranium. It's toxic as hell (heavy metal poisoning) and radioactive. It is one of the various causes of Gulf War Syndrome.

Most people don't know the difference and the Russians WILL use it as propaganda if we provide it. They will conveniently ignore the fact that they use it also.

My other comment was about who is going to do the repairs, they need people trained on that to make it happen, and a proper stockpile of parts, not just random stuff. And I'm fully aware that we have trained some Ukrainians on flying A-10s. Additionally, unless we have air cover or suppress Russian air defense, the A-10s won't last long.

I would also like to believe that this is an alternative, but it really is not, in the middle of an ongoing war. They need the aircraft they know, have (and get esaily get) parts for and have people trained to keep the planes flying.

[Deminpenn]

38. If Ukrainian pilots were

trained to fly A-10s, then they also were trained on how to maintain them at least at the organizational remove and replace level.

I think it's unlikely Ukraine will get A-10s, but if they were to get them, the planes would come with an initial supply of spares and so on. Since the A-10 is still in service, parts can be requisitioned and pre-positioned.