US officials say Russia has asked China for military help in Ukraine

[swag]

Source: Financial Times

Demetri Sevastopulo in Washington AN HOUR AGO

Russia has asked China for military ​equipment to ​support its invasion of Ukraine, ​according to US officials, sparking concern in ​the White House that Beijing ​may undermine western efforts to help Ukrainian forces defend their country.

US officials told the Financial Times that Russia had requested military equipment and other assistance since the start of the invasion. They declined to give details about what Russia had requested.

Another person familiar with the situation said the US was preparing to warn its allies, amid some indications that China may be preparing to help Russia. Other US officials have said there were signs that Russia was running out of some kinds of weaponry as the war in Ukraine extends into its third week.

The White House did not comment. The Chinese embassy in Washington did not respond to a request for a comment.


Read more: https://www.ft.com/content/30850470-8c8c-4b53-aa39-01497064a7b7?desktop=true&segmentId=d8d3e364-5197-20eb-17cf-2437841d178a#myft:notification:instant-email:content

[ColinC]

1. ...

If anybody thinks that this incrementalism strategy of the US will prevent a world war, we are gradually seeing the opposite. This could likely have been nipped in the bud a long time ago. First with sanctions before the invasion, then with a clear show of force and willingness to use force before encroachment towards major cities, and now through intervention. All of these things have and will happen eventually no matter what. But likely not at the times that will prevent nuclear war. Our strategy has increasingly been just enough to prevent what has already happened -after it has happened.


"The United States will always do the right thing -after it has exhausted all other options"

-NOT Winston Churchill (edit)

[brush]

9. Putin's over confidence in his military has the world...

Last edited Sun Mar 13, 2022, 08:41 PM - Edit history (1)

over a barrel. China doesn't want to be seen as supplying Russia's deficient war machine, and sorry, I can't agree with the "sanctions before" an acutual invasion. That's like punishment before a crime is committed.

That's a no go. If Putin had been bluffing we would've looked like the big, bad bully and the world would side with Putin.

His stupid miscalculation has got us all trying to figure out what to do. Your saying we should've struck militarily is highly, highly questionable as since Putin is so unpredictable that he invaded a nation unprovoked, what's to stop him from launching nukes as well if we attack Russia with our forces?

Are you actually advocating risking that?

[Wuddles440]

50. Actually,...

Putin's been committing crimes including but not limited to murder, torture, indiscriminate bombing, and arbitrary imprisonment for decades and there have been little or no consequences for his barbaric actions during that period. He has no regard for the sanctity of human life in general and has no reservations about sacrificing the lives of fellow Russians to accomplish his ambitions. Concerning Ukraine, he was been constantly challenging their independence since he came into power and has been attempting to overthrow their government with military force since 2014. So proactive sanctions certainly were warranted as Putin has an extensive track record of committing crimes against humanity. Unfortunately a bully will continue to be a menace until someone challenges them and fights back. That's the only way to stop their offensive actions.

[brush]

52. So are you willing to risk nuclear war?

[Igel]

56. At some point the answer, however abhorrent, must be "yes."

Otherwise, in 20 years, "Give us Maryland and Virginia. Or we might use nuclear weapons."

Who wants to give Maryland and Virginia to Pakistan or North Korea?


Anything up to that is betting that this appeasement is the last serving that the glutton will want. But when bluffs are never called, that's what you need to hope and pray for.

Cynical, sure. But at some point that's where you wind up.

[Marcuse]

58. First he would reclaim Russian America and install a puppet Governor, perhaps an ex Governor.

[Karadeniz]

60. I agree. He'll use the threat of nuclear attack indefinitely. China needs to butt out.

[melm00se]

10. Not Churchill

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/11/11/exhaust-alternatives/

[caraher]

17. Thanks

Interesting that this misattribution antedates the Internet, which seems to have accelerated the practice.

I tend to be most alert to bogus Einstein quotes.

[ColinC]

22. I heard the quote on MSNBC.

Can't remember who said it. I trusted cable news. Should have verified.

[melm00se]

49. I used to have this hanging in my classroom

as a reminder to alway always always check sources no matter how much credibility is ascribed to them.

[caraher]

66. Don't worry about it

I didn't know it was bogus either - I might have watched the same piece you did, it sounds familiar from such a context.

It's a very pithy quote anyway, whoever said it!

[ColinC]

23. Thanks!

Heard it from an MSNBC clip. Can't remember who did it.

[Deminpenn]

2. Don't think the Chinese are that dumb

Like OPEC does with oil, China wants the world to stay addicted to cheap products made in China. It's bad for their business if countries start deciding to bring manufacturing back on shore and stop buying as much from them.

[Jazz Jon]

4. Sanctions against China

The corporations of the USA transfered all of their manufacturing to China to get cheaper labor. Most things that we buy in the store are made on China. Where does that leave us on sanctions? This is very bad indeed. Somebody talk me down.

[Deminpenn]

5. The other day bought lightbulbs

at Home Depot made in Hungary.

[caraher]

18. I share your general concern

We're too dependent on China. The hope has always been that the dependence is so mutual that China would not dare risk it, and that may yet prove true. China isn't especially beholden to Russia and might conclude it's in their best interest to decline to provide the requested assistance.

At the same time, China is certainly watching closely as they consider their future options regarding Taiwan.

[brush]

3. What? So the Ukrainian forces stiff resistance...

is causing the big, bad bear to ask for help?

I know China should tread carefully as I'm sure they don't want their world image tarnished by the mess Puting has gotten himself into.

[monkeyman1]

8. dumb ass of Russia bit off more than he can chew ?

[Metaphorical]

6. This would be about the time for China to say "Nah."

Xi stands to gain much and lose very little if Russia collapses. If he throws in with Putin, on the other hand, it forces up Xi's timetable to try to take over Taiwan and perhaps empower NK to take SK, but at serious risk to its own economy and the escalation of war in the Pacific. If Xi waits, he gains the chance to take over most of Siberia east of the Urals, including access to the potentially lucrative Arctic oil fields. Unlike Putin, Xi was also educated in the West and knows how Westerners think.

I just cannot see the Chinese committing anything but a token response.

[brush]

12. I think you're right. Xi is no dummy and will be...

wise to stay out as there's much international goodwill to gain that way.

[Phoenix61]

34. Yep! Can't think of a single reason for Xi to help Putin. nt

[liberalla]

7. So, I wonder what the details they declined to share are...

[orangecrush]

43. Same here. nt

[bluestarone]

11. What a CROCK!

China better stay sideways here! pooty is a fucking loser

[L. Coyote]

15. More than half of Russia's tanks are on the border with China.

Mrs. Betty Bowers

When you’re fronting as a superpower, you have to ask a real superpower for help when you invade a small country.

When you’re fronting as a billionaire, you have to ask working-class people to pitch in to buy you a private plane.

[Warpy]

13. I'm beginning to wonder what their troop losses actually are

Raw video shows a lot of them DRT/LLT, meaning retrieving them is not a priority, at all. That means they are uncounted and their families are not being notified and that is why Putin is screaming for cannon fodder from outside Russia.

I hope Xi doesn't fall for the pitch about giving his military actual combat experience.

[L. Coyote]

14. They can do a trade, China gets Siberia ....

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[YoshidaYui]

16. I thought i SAW something that said China was willing to help

Ukraine ,,, that there was a binding treaty between the two countries. If China decided to help Ukraine the Russians might think twice about their continuation in the war.

[Eyeball_Kid]

65. China is a strong trading partner with UKR. But there's a general medium term problem:

Wheat. China gets wheat from UKR, but we can anticipate massive shortages of wheat this year because both Russia and UKR aren't planting. Wartime, you know. Some are worrying about pervasive famine.

[Scrivener7]

19. This was a REALLY interesting thread posted this morning about where China's interests lie:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16477286

It links to a Chinese analyst discussing how it is important for China to move away from Russia.

The answer to Russia's request for Chinese troops will tell us a lot about China's decision on who to back, and thus Russia's chances for success.

[elleng]

26. Thanks

[Scrivener7]

29. Thanks to Tomconroy. Now I guess we wait and see whether they take this guy's advice.

Here's hoping.

[elleng]

30. Right; holding breaths about something ELSE.

Chinese have leader election/selection 'soon,' and putin wants to be forever-leader, so the whole world is watching.

[Scrivener7]

31. The times we live in.

[BumRushDaShow]

35. This is what China also has in mind

Would China’s move to join this transpacific trade pact push the U.S. to rejoin? It’s complicated.

Membership would probably place China firmly at the center of regional and global supply chains.


By Kristen Hopewell
September 27, 2021 at 6:00 a.m. EDT


China announced this month that it has officially applied to join the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), one of the world’s largest free trade areas. A quick recap: Yes, this is the trade pact that began as part of the U.S. effort to contain China’s growing influence in the Pacific Rim. Why did China make this move, and what happens now? The simple answer is that the 11 CPTPP members — Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore and Vietnam — will decide whether to allow China to join the pact.

Here’s what makes Beijing’s membership bid complicated: China’s trade practices and trade rifts — and China’s growing rivalry with the United States.

Why is China keen to join?

Joining the CPTPP would be a major symbolic and strategic victory for China. The agreement originated as the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), a mega-regional free trade deal championed by the Obama administration as a cornerstone of U.S. strategy for engagement in Asia. The trade pact was intended to bolster U.S. alliances and counter China’s growing power in the region. With its members encompassing 40 percent of global GDP, the TPP could provide a channel for the United States to write the rules of global trade, many analysts predicted.

The Trump administration, however, announced in 2017 that the United States would withdraw from the TPP. The remaining members forged ahead with the agreement, which became known as the CPTPP. China now seeks to replace the United States as the economic hub of the agreement. The Global Times, a state-run newspaper and mouthpiece for the Chinese Communist Party, described this as a landmark move that aims to “cement the country’s leadership in global trade” and leave the United States “increasingly isolated.”

(snip)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/27/would-chinas-move-join-this-transpacific-trade-pact-push-us-rejoin-its-complicated/

[Scrivener7]

37. I imaging answering Vlad's call would make it even harder than the

article says for them to be accepted.

Seems like it would not be a good idea for us to sit this issue out.

[BumRushDaShow]

39. There are some serious

chess move strategies going on here.

China, for many years, has always had their "out" - their tried and true "We do not want to interfere in the internal affairs of other countries". They invoke this quite a bit... when it is in their self-interest.

If you look at the situation today - regardless of whether Russia succeeds in taking over what is now a sadly increasingly trashed Ukraine or not, they are completely ruble-less. Literally 30 years worth of a re-introduction into the global society and global economy, has been decimated by Putin in 3 weeks.

And I post this GDP graph often now (Russia is located in the green section as a carve-out that sits right next to the graph legend label "Europe" ) -



I think Russia is relying on this - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/russia-oil-uk-ban-ukraine-b2031228.html



and it would be a matter of dealing with that aspect since China is the biggest user of fossil fuels in the world.

You do have this dynamic though - https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2019/07/14/ten-countries-that-dominate-fossil-fuel-production/?sh=34d8072f5b13

TOTAL



BREAKDOWN

[Scrivener7]

40. I actually saved that graphic the last time you posted it. It's great. But I bet it's already

out of date. And it will be really interesting what their share is a month from now.

[BumRushDaShow]

42. That was based on IMF data for 2021.

The 2022 version is gonna be a doozy, no doubt.

[Scrivener7]

44. Seriously, these sanctions have them in deep trouble. Hopefully it's enough to

light a fire under the Russian people to get rid of that lunatic.

[BumRushDaShow]

48. It might end up having to be

the billionaire oligarchy three who would do it (via well-paid mercenaries). The people will merely be rounded up by the lackeys and thrown into camps.

[electric_blue68]

53. Oh those transformating ones are fascinating!

[ancianita]

45. Thank you. I love these. Where Russia sits now with overall world trade is worsened by this

latest move to secure another colony to exploit and scrape wealth from.

[BumRushDaShow]

51. The issue at this point

is that his going in and doing a scorched earth strategy in that country, leaves little or no "booty" as a perceived victor with the "spoils", but only brings about a whole lot of reconstruction that will be needed with no money to do any of that.

I.e., without some "face-saving" exit strategy, the whole thing becomes a "lose-lose" effort.

[electric_blue68]

54. I was thinking that you want the country but you're blasting major important areas to bits, it...

certainly doesn't seem very good in the near medium, or longer term run.

[BumRushDaShow]

55. It's like a spite job

that almost suggests some precursor pissing match might have happened between Zelensky and Putin before all of this kicked off and Putin decided he was going to stop "bluffing" and put up or shut up.

Thing is, what he "put up" is not enough and now he is stuck having to carry out his threats without a way to "save face", and essentially is now down to using what amounts to macro-sized guerilla tactics used by all those terrorist groups he helped to support in the past.

[ancianita]

64. It is.

[yaesu]

20. In response to reports that Russia is seeking military equipment and other support from China

the Chinese embassy in the US said the priority right now is to ensure the tense situation does not escalate or get out of control, according to Reuters.

sounds like a "yeah, we're still thinking about it"

[COL Mustard]

21. You know you're f*cked

When you're Russia, battling small, scrappy Ukraine, and you have to ask China for help. This is not good.

[CanonRay]

24. Hey! Would you like to help me out on this war I needlessly started?

Nothing it it for you, but do it anyway. Yeah, I'm sure the Chinese are going to bite on this one.

[pbmus]

25. China promised in 2013 to protect Ukraine...

https://apple.news/A0DYD9NQfRJKEC9RlDeWVNw

An unusual and mostly forgotten pledge Chinese President Xi Jinping signed eight years ago that China would protect Ukraine in the event of a nuclear attack is getting fresh attention following Russia’s invasion of its Eastern European neighbor.

China’s 2013 promise to Ukraine of unspecified security guarantees echoed the kind of commitment nuclear-armed states—including China—have long made to nonnuclear ones, assurances that the U.S., U.K. and Russia had earlier also extended directly to Ukraine for relinquishing Soviet-era weapons. Yet Beijing appeared to be promising more than it had in past commitments, and why it singled out Ukraine for such an arrangement has confounded nuclear experts ever since.
Now, its existence appears to further muddy Beijing’s policy stance in the context of Russia’s recent invasion of Ukraine and Moscow’s warning last month it was raising the alert level of its nuclear forces.

“It’s a promise of a nuclear-weapon state to stand up for a nonnuclear-weapon state being threatened by a nuclear-weapon state,” says Gregory Kulacki, a Japan-based analyst who focuses on nuclear issues and China for the nonprofit Union of Concerned Scientists. “It means something and it should be pointed out to China,” he says.

[elleng]

27. Thanks; saw it yesterday.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

28. Putin went to war without adequate resources

Putin is also seeking mercenaries The Russian army is not up to fighting a real war.

Link to tweet

According to a report from the Daily Beast's Shannon Vavra, officials at the Pentagon told reporters on Friday that Russian President Vladimir Putin's desire to bring in foreign fighters to help with his unprovoked invasion of Ukraine is not going well.....

“We are aware of recruiting efforts… in Syria,” the senior Pentagon official said for the record. “We haven’t seen indications that their recruiting efforts have borne fruit and resulted in the actual arrival of foreign fighters from that part of the world.”.....

The report adds that Russia has indicated they are sending their own reinforcements into the country, which the Pentagon also has doubts about.

“Nothing to speak to in terms of Russian reinforcements of themselves. We haven’t seen any indications, at least not tangible indications, that they are trying to plus up their manpower from elsewhere," they said with Vavra adding, "Putin's planning in general hasn’t been in tip-top shape, intelligence officials told lawmakers in briefings on Capitol Hill this week. Russia has suffered between 2,000 and 4,000 casualties in just a matter of weeks, according to analysis from the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency shared with members of Congress. And for approximately a week now, a column of Russian forces has been stalling outside Kyiv, and have only made about five kilometers of progress in recent days, the senior defense official said."

Putin's army is a flop and he is also failing at recruiting mercenaries

[Mr. Sparkle]

32. Putin is also looking for soldiers from satellite countries and the middle east.

I'm not too sure the russian army is all its cracked up to be, or the russians in the ranks are refusing to fight ukrainians given their historical links

[BumRushDaShow]

33. In January 1991, after a 5 month build-up

the U.S. amassed almost 700,000 troops (out of over 900,000 total in the coalition) to remove Iraq's occupying forces from Kuwait (~100,000 Iraqi troops had been deployed to do the occupation) after Iraq annexed Kuwait, a country with a (1991) pop. ~2 million at that time and was ~7000 sq. miles in size.

Yet in 2022, Putin has been attempting to occupy the entirety of Ukraine with less than 1/3rd of the troops used in Desert Storm, where Ukraine has a pop. of ~43.5 million (over 20 times that of 1991 Kuwait, with Kuwait now at 4 million in 2022) and having an area that is over 33 times the size of Kuwait, at 233,000 sq. miles.

Add to this that Ukraine reportedly has one of the largest military forces in the area (with ~170,000 active duty), and this is all head-scratching, strongly suggesting why the Russian outreach to China.

[ancianita]

38. Wow. Amazing comparison that leads to lots of questions about his and his military's strategy,

budget and planning. His playbook has worked over small annexations until he's had to scale up. Thanks for the perspective!

[BumRushDaShow]

41. That number of troops that he put together

would probably be fine for occupying an area similar to what he did with taking over Crimea, which is just about 1.5 times larger in area than Kuwait (~10,000 square miles but with a similar population as 1991 Kuwait - ~2 million).

And yes - the "scale up" thing is glaring. And although as the USSR, up until the early 1990s, his nation did have control over that entire area (so there is some knowledge-base). But that was like 30 years ago and things have changed!

[ancianita]

63. Right.

Things like the Internet have changed. While he's been busy cordoning off the Internet to control information access, the rest of the ex-Soviet nations' younger people have been changed by Internet information, and with the oral history of what life behind the Iron Curtain was for their ancestors, are better aware of mis- and disinformation than we who've not been behind the Iron Curtain.

I say this because I'd rather err in being a wrong pessimist than a wrong optimist. So imo. The West should see it could be taken over by corporate and strong man autocracy. The EU and NATO have really got to step up for their own sakes. And we really have to join with them for ours. It's not that Russia is strong, it's that Putin is a criminal at large, with bag men everywhere who are like trumpcult -- willing to smash everything and go down with the West and its values over joining in any collective project to advance of humanity and give up fossil energy addiction. I hope we're powerful enough to force Big Fossil to transition because they're not going down without a fight. I could be wrong, but imo, Big Corp will take their chances, having mercenaries of their own, and plans to outlast most humans on the gamble that they'll eventually run nations, with Xi proving Joe wrong, and Russia being its dependent energy partner with the Belt and Road networking north. I'm pretty sure Xi already has that planned.

[BumRushDaShow]

67. Putin is easily old enough to be Zelensky's father

Zelensky is young GenX/near millennial and makes good use of social media



Putin probably ignores anything to do with that, punting to his aides, etc.

The one thing that has fascinated me the past several years is how much Russians seem to love their dash cams and several of the private U.S. weather companies like TWC and Accuweather, routinely re-posted dashcam videos that were taken by Russian citizens that captured meteors or unusual weather events as drivers were traveling along some highway in Russia, and are now tying Ukraine into their weather-related news.

I never understood why until posting this prompted me to investigate it and apparently the proliferation was due to self-protection against insurance scammers (similar to the U.S. "bump" and sue fraudsters doing staged accidents) - https://www.dailydot.com/irl/russia-dash-cam-videos-livejournal/

And with respect to this -

I hope we're powerful enough to force Big Fossil to transition because they're not going down without a fight. I could be wrong, but imo, Big Corp will take their chances, having mercenaries of their own, and plans to outlast most humans on the gamble that they'll eventually run nations, with Xi proving Joe wrong, and Russia being its dependent energy partner with the Belt and Road networking north. I'm pretty sure Xi already has that planned.

I just posted this in a different thread - https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2887527

Note the 2nd excerpted article and what just happened in Houston last week and the realization of the stakes, prompting a rare quandary by big oil.

Also I posted upthread what Xi has in mind - https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2887325

Someone has to blink on the above, which is an option as a carrot to further isolate Russia, despite the intent of it securing China's dominance in that area of world, although they already are as it is (but for only one sector). However the U.S. needs to solidify it's own dominant role and it would probably be in most everything outside of manufacturing like financials, energy, and even agriculture, where our agriculture supplies China with things like soy and pork. The U.S. doesn't have to be party to what is a "TPP redux" but can use its own bargaining chips (and resources) to maintain trade of needed goods and services to its allies.

[ancianita]

72. Thank you for all the links and analysis. I'm glad your radar is out on energy orgs

and international economic moves that are both cause and effect under much of what we think is political reality.

From the first link: So in Houston our big fossil chose to ally with OPEC, one important move to keep Putin from controlling markets along with Western governments that rely on them.

From the China link: We're still dealing with how Trump (over his head & taking Vlad's lead) left us to a tightening Russia and China grip over four years. There's so much about China to keep an eye on as it still buys oil and gas from Putin, and as the UK joins the TPP redux.

Reading your input here is always an education.

[BumRushDaShow]

73. Well in the first case

the old adage "follow the $$$" applies. I.e., to paraphrase another old adage - "There are no permanent friends nor permanent enemies, only permanent interests".

It ends up being the job of the savvy politicos to spot those opportunities beneficial to them, that might also be beneficial to a current "enemy" if there is a strategic need to switch alliances. All that outreach to Maduro is a perfect example of that. The initial outreach to Iran for a similar reason (at least in terms of restoring the nuclear agreement) got stymied (for now) after their missile barrage on Irbil aimed at the (currently vacant) U.S. Consulate there.

And with respect to China - they want to be the dominant power on that side of the world. They also want Taiwan but have watched what happened with Russia "wanting" all of Ukraine. So they are carefully re-balancing their expectations and future plans, including having Russia out of the picture financially. I.e., you already have this going on -

Business
China buying more cheap and sanctioned oil from Iran and Venezuela

Bloomberg


Jan 11, 2022

China doubled down on imports of Iranian and Venezuelan crude in 2021, taking the most from the U.S.-sanctioned regimes in three years, as refiners brushed off the risk of penalties to scoop up cheap oil. Crude processors in the world’s biggest importer were observed to have bought 324 million barrels from Iran and Venezuela in 2021, about 53% more than the year before, according to data from market intelligence firm Kpler. That’s the most since 2018, when China took 352 million barrels from the two nations.

Chinese buyers, particularly private refiners, have benefited from Washington’s tough line on Iran and Venezuela, continuing to buy their oil long after their counterparts elsewhere in Asia ceased purchases. The risk that non-U.S. entities may lose access to the U.S. financial system or have their American assets frozen if found guilty of breaching the sanctions hasn’t dissuaded them.

A glut of unsold cargoes, rising international prices, and the issuance of more crude import quotas by Beijing, have incentivized the private refiners, known as teapots, to snap up more oil from the pariah states. These shipments typically don’t show up in official customs data.

“This surge was triggered by rising crude prices, making Iranian crude, anecdotally, up to 10% cheaper when delivered into China,” said Anoop Singh, head of East of Suez tanker research at Braemar ACM Shipbroking Pte Ltd. The U.S. also eased up on sanctions enforcement as it tried to get a nuclear agreement with Iran, he said.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/01/11/business/china-sanctioned-iran-venezuela-oil/

With what has now happened with Russia and our outreach to Venezuela (and Iran - at least recently in general), what was once "done in the dark" could be give the tacit "we'll look away" from the U.S., in exchange for something else...

All kinds of little bargaining chips out there.

[Wingus Dingus]

36. Will China help kill innocent Ukrainians, who never hurt China, in Russia's terror campaign?

Seems like that can have some real, far-reaching repercussions for the world. Edit to add: NATO is helping Ukraine's defense. On what grounds would China be helping Russia kill Ukrainians? It can't be defensive aid.

[TomCADem]

46. Yes, if Russia agrees to back a Chinese Invasion of Taiwan.

It will be the Axis Powers 2022.

[Wingus Dingus]

47. But they would need some sort of credible rationale.

There's got to be a cover story, to funnel in weapons and aid. Ukraine is not in their backyard. They don't have hostilities or disputes, to my knowledge. Ukraine doesn't sponsor terror. Nobody buys the Nazi thing. Was Russia's UN "bio lab" thing a cover/fig leaf for China to get involved?

[ffr]

57. "We'll pay you as may Rubles as you need, just help us please!"

Only, your currency is worthless and your government cannot be trusted. GO FUCK YOURSELVES!

[Crataegus]

59. Poor Pootie

This is not going to happen.
China will let Putin destroy Russia.
They will make thier move as Russia falls into chaos.
China will gain by this conflict, it's all about the long game.

[heckles65]

61. There were news reports in 1939-40

that Stalin's USSR requested help from their "ally" Germany to help it subdue another surprisingly tough opponent, Finland. I don't know if the reports were true or not.

[IronLionZion]

62. China denies it and publicly sympathizes with Ukraine

they claim to have sent humanitarian aid to Ukraine and will continue to do so. I doubt they will help Russia on this.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/13/politics/jake-sullivan-meeting-chinese-counterpart-ukraine/index.html

[quakerboy]

68. Maybe just enough

to keep Putin going. I suspect they are happy to watch this all play out. Either Russia "wins", and the west is perceived to be weak and unable to protect its own. Or Russia fails, and they can make a play either for direct territory gains or client states.

[LiberalFighter]

69. If Russia has such a powerful military force, why do they need help?

[Lasher]

70. LBN dupe

Earlier thread here: https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142887232

[DallasNE]

71. What Happened To Putin's Call For Syria To Send 15,000 Troops

To fight in Ukraine. Was that a false story, did they turn Putin down or is it quietly happening?

China needs to be careful because without their exports to America they collapse. Would they risk the internal destabilization that would cause? Do they care?