Minor traffic stop led to 'murder' of Patrick Lyoya, NAACP says

[James48]

Source: MLIvE.com

GRAND RAPIDS, MI -- NAACP leaders are questioning how what appeared to be a minor traffic infraction escalated into something one leader called “straight up murder.”

They want the officer who shot 26-year-old Patrick Lyoya in Southeast Grand Rapids on April 4 charged criminally, fired immediately and decertified as an officer.

NAACP leaders talked Wednesday, April 13 about the release of police and cell phone videos that showed Lyoya’s vehicle being stopped in the area of Nelson Avenue SE and Griggs Street for a license plate that did not match his vehicle. The traffic stop was followed by the officer’s attempt to take Lyoya into custody, with a fight erupting between the two.

(Snip)

“It was unnecessary. It was lethal force and, in our opinion, it was just straight up murder,” Mayers said.



Read more: https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2022/04/minor-traffic-stop-led-to-murder-of-patrick-lyoya-naacp-says.html?outputType=amp

---

Horrible incident in Grand Rapids, Michigan. The officer attempted to take down the driver, a struggle ensued, and the white officer shot the black driver in the back of head. Warning: gruesome video.

[Hoyt]

1. Not sure shooting at end was justified, but grabbing policeman's taser, etc.,

is going to end ugly.

Does not appear to me that officer was some kind of rabid pig, at least until things went bad. He seemed calm and professional. Video is blurry near end.

But shooting someone unnecessarily — when you have control— ain’t right either. Can’t tell from videos if that happened. Also question pulling people over for tag issues.

[cstanleytech]

5. "Also question pulling people over for tag issues." Depends on the issue.

If its a matter of the person driving a car with a tag that expired a week ago then a gentle reminder along with a citation that will not cost them any money as long as they renew it by the end of the next work week would be fine.
According to this though the tag completely did not even match the vehicle which if true raises alot of questions over if the vehicle is theirs or if its been stolen.

[Johnny2X2X]

15. This was an execution

The officer was in no danger.

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=2nwc8zcjEUZ1vH-hBTCHtA

[Hoyt]

27. If the victim had the taser at that time, something had to be done, although shooting seems extreme.

[Johnny2X2X]

28. He didn't have the taser

And the taser had been discharged twice already, so it was no longer useful unless pressed directly against the skin. The officer shot a man in the back of the head because he thought he might have a taser that had already been rendered ineffective past 0 inches.

[Hoyt]

33. Assuming a policeman involved in a struggle with a non-compliant individual would have known that,

then the policeman has a problem.

Something tells me that most in that case, weren't making mental counts of the taser's capability. But, hey, they did count the bullets on the cowboy shows. An investigation will determine that.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

2. Direct link to video.

Warning graphic. Not gory but you see someone lose their life.

[Jetheels]

19. That was a brutal execution. How sad.

If the cop couldn’t handle the situation (which is evident), he should have let the guy run off. He has his car and plates and description on camera. Really, the cop had to shoot him for a minor violation?
In the fuking head? The cop could easily have shot him in the leg, no?

[wnylib]

3. Always suspicious when the video cam

stops operating.

But this cop will get off without any charges. He will claim that he feared for his life because the suspect would not let go of the taser. Cop will say that he feared being disabled by the taser and then shot with his own gun. Police department and DA will agree.

But the cop did murder the suspect. Shooting was not necessary to protect himself. He could have disabled the suspect with a blow from the gun's butt.

I also question why the cop continued to pursue chasing the guy without calling for backup.

If it's true that the plates did not match the car, there is a chance that the car was stolen. Or, not registered and someone gave him the plates to use. The media will make a big issue over the plates, but cops are not judge, jury, and executioner. And we don't give the death penalty for stolen or unregistered cars.

[cstanleytech]

6. "feared for his life because the suspect would not let go of the taser" Hell it would scare me if

anyone went for a taser near me as those things from what I have read can actually kill you though their lethality is far less than a bullet.

[wnylib]

7. Not scary enough to warrant killing the suspect

who was already face down on the ground with the cop on top of him. The suspect could not have used the taser from that position. The cop could have knocked out the guy by hitting him with the butt of the gun.

I could not see the video details well enough to know if the suspect actually did still have his hands on the taser while the cop told him to let go. A closer examination of the video will clarify that.

Shooting the guy in the back of the head while he was down was not necessary.

[cstanleytech]

29. "Not scary enough to warrant killing the suspect" Never said it was. Simply saying that tasers

are scary and for good reason though I will grant you that they are far less lethal than guns.

[exboyfil]

10. Bigger issue is incapacitation

That makes the LEOs service weapon available to the driver to use against him or other members of the public.

[roamer65]

4. Incompetence.

Flat out incompetence.

You don’t shoot someone over a minor traffic infraction. Period.

[BumRushDaShow]

8. "stopped...for a license plate that did not match his vehicle."

I don't know what the DMV laws are in MI but I know here in PA, I have bought new cars and they transferred the plate from my old car to the new one - i.e., I expected a new plate and they didn't give me one, meaning my license plate would "not match" the vehicle it was moved to.

This happened several times over the years- and at 2 different dealers (and my current car bought 8 years ago has the plate from my previous car that had been bought in 2005). I expect those who buy at used car lots have the same thing happen and they do the title paperwork along with that. How long it takes for that transfer "to get into the DMV system" is... who knows?

So the only reason why I could see justification of this stop with that reason, was if there had been a car with that plate that had been reported stolen.

One of the biggest fears around here was when we were transitioning away from adding car registration stickers to the plates each year and as that program was eventually being phased out, POC had to go through the horror of being pulled over anyway for an "expired sticker" despite the program no longer being in effect (or pulled over for no sticker if a thief stole the sticker by cutting the corner off the plate and the car owner had no idea).

Even before that point, the city (Philly) had trialed a program where a special paper-based registration "sticker" was to be placed on the inside of the rear window to thwart what became a lucrative crime of snipping off the corners of metal license plates to get the state registration stickers.



But the heat of a rear window of a car and the poor adhesive on the paper, meant the little piece of paper would fall off and that person (if a POC) would get pulled over for "not having their car registered" - especially if they were in a county outside of Philadelphia and had no idea this is what Philly was doing. They thankfully ended that nonsense.

[exboyfil]

9. Unpopular on this board

And I have been critical of police when warranted, but I don't see where the police officer necessarily had a choice.

Let's look at the facts:

1. A license plate on a car that doesn't match.
2. The driver exits the vehicle when it is know that you remain in the vehicle until the LEO requests/orders you out of it.
3. The driver refuses to hand over his license - at this point the LEO has every right to ask for the license. He as reasonable articulable suspicion that a crime has been committed (the improper license on the vehicle).
4. The driver attempts to walk away from the detainment (an officer has every right to arrest you for an improper license on your vehicle, for failure to present license when requested, and for attempting to leave a lawful detainment).
5. The driver then struggles with the LEO who is attempting to arrest him. The officer is alone, and the driver has a companion with him. It is an exceedingly dangerous situation.
6. The driver is successful in preventing being secured. The LEO then tries to use his taser which the driver takes away from him.
7. The driver refuses to drop the taser after being requested multiple times to do so.
8. While a taser can be lethal, an officer being tased is now an even more dangerous situation for the public. His service weapon beomes available to the driver who has already demonstrated his willingness to commit crimes.
9. Anyone who has been in a fight or wrestled where you are attempting to hold someone down knows how quickly positions can change.


At every point the officer did nothing wrong except at the end when he decided to end the encounter with lethal force to protect himself and the citizens around him. If the driver gets up and successfully uses the taser, then the officer is potentially dead and the public is at risk. The officer already used the less lethal option made available to him.


Now you instruct the cop to let the driver go about his business (ie not stop him for the improper license plate or let him flee a lawful detainment, then don't go complaining if crime increases in your neighborhood).

The driver wasn't shot because of a traffic stop. He was shot because he had an incapacitating weapon in his hand and a demonstrated willingness to resist law enforcement with violence.

[kaotikross]

11. You might not have known this but

If the tazer had fired, and it had- you could hear the zzt when the cop fired it, it has to be manually reloaded to be useful again. It's not like a gun, it's one shot and needs to be reloaded. The chance of the suspect having a tazer cartridge on him was zero. The cop was in danger of being clubbed with a plastic gun, I guess.

[exboyfil]

12. I don't know much about Tasers but some do have Drive Stun capability

Also in the course of the struggle are you sure the LEO knew that the Taser was discharged and no longer capable?

It seemed the cop thought the Taser was a threat to him. I don't think he was reacting in anger because it was taken from him.

You charge the cop, then good luck getting more police recruits.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

31. Incorrect. Those tasers have a direct contact feature which allows the taser to act as a stun gun.

[James48]

13. You missed

That the person was not a Native American, and didn’t speak English as his first language.

And “ The driver exits the vehicle when it is know that you remain in the vehicle until the LEO requests/orders you out of it. “.

It is known? Maybe by an American who took drivers training in high school. But this guy didn’t take drivers training in high school. There is no evidence he ever was schooled in how to stay in your car in a traffic stop. He obviously is confused early on, he tries to comply by asking his friend to hand out his drivers license, and it goes south when the officer is barking orders, and says “do you speak English?”

It was a murder.

[Mortos]

14. Exboyfil This is an insightful and accurate but unpopular opinion

I will call out police officer misconduct or excessive force when I see it. This does not appear to be either of those things. This was a lawful traffic stop. Switched plates are often used on stolen vehicles. The driver got out of the car, refused to get back in it, refused to give his license, resisted with force, tried to run, fought the officer, grabbed his taser, and then continued to fight.

For the person that said a taser is useless once it is fired, you don't know what you are talking about. Firing the prongs is one use of the taser. Most now have two cartridges so they can be fired twice, some have three. After the cartridges are discharged, it is still a dangerous incapacitating weapon that emits 50,000 volts by touching the end of the gun to a person and pressing the trigger. This can be done until the battery runs out (dozens and dozens of times).

Could the cop have let the guy run away? Yes. But he was within his legal authority to try and detain him with force once the driver escalated. The use of force continuum is not a fair fight. It is a set of steps that are taken to protect the officer. He is legally allowed to use force, up to and including deadly force, in these kinds of fights. The level of force legally allowed in this situation is deadly force, which the officer used after all other levels had been exhausted.

This was not an execution. This was not a rogue cop killing an innocent person. This was a tragic situation caused by the driver who would have probably gone to jail on some misdemeanor charges and tickets if he hadn't made the choice to disobey the lawful orders of the police officer, resist arrest, fight, run, fight more violently, and grab the officer's taser.

One more thing, as someone with expert knowledge, teh actions of the dispatcher in this instance were fucking terrible. He didn't know the officer's location, did not immediately send backup, or hold the air, or initiate any emergency protocols that I could hear when it became obvious the officer was in conducting a high risk traffic stop, was in foot pursuit, and in a violent fight.

In a full-on fight like this, exhaustion occurs very quickly. This fight lasted several minutes. This officer, in my opinion, did nothing illegal or contrary to basic law enforcement training.

Again, it is a tragic circumstance but not an illegal one as far as the officer's actions and use of force.

[Demsrule86]

17. I live in Ohio. I was pulled over because my license plates did not match..DMV error...

The cop politely told me I should contact the DMV, looked at my license, and registration (not correct) and I went on my way. I am a white woman. The cop needs to be fired and possibly face charges.

[Jedi Guy]

18. Not an equivalent situation in the slightest.

Mr. Lyoya, upon being asked to provide his license, asked the passenger to hand it to him. Before the passenger could do so, Mr. Lyoya closed the driver's side door and attempted to walk away from the scene. When the officer told him he couldn't do so and attempted to stop him, Mr. Lyoya then began active resistance, which escalated to the point he had hold of the officer's Taser and refused to let go of it.

During a traffic stop, you are not necessarily under arrest, but you are lawfully detained. You don't get to leave until the officer has cleared you to do so. You provided your license. You didn't attempt to leave the scene. You didn't resist being detained at the scene. You didn't attempt to take or gain control of an officer's weapon.

Basically, you're comparing apples to pineapples.

[Jedi Guy]

20. "The actions of the dispatcher in this instance were fucking terrible."

That stuck out to me, too, and I agree 100%. No emergency tone, no indication he was aware of the officer's location, no indication backup was en route, no nothing. This officer was on his own in the worst possible way.

When I was a dispatcher, it was drilled into our heads that we were the safety net, particularly for officers who ride without a partner. We're not physically there, but we're supposed to be watching their back and looking out for them. This dispatcher 100% dropped the ball.

And you're right that it was a high-risk traffic stop, but people with no experience don't grasp the distinction between routine and high-risk without having it explained to them.

As for the shooting itself, there's a reason the saying "awful but lawful" exists. This shooting is a perfect example of that.

[Johnny2X2X]

16. The driver did not have the taser

The taser was on the ground several feet away. The police chief said as much yesterday at his press conference.

The taser had been deployed twice, it was not a danger from distance, but could still have been used with direct contact.

The victim was trying to get away, he didn't throw a single punch or kick, he was just trying to pull away. The officer got tired and then shot him in the back of the head while he was laying on the ground face down.

[Jedi Guy]

22. This is a perfect example of a "lawful but awful" shooting by police. Tragic all the way around.

You did a great job breaking it down piece by piece, though. Given the very prevalent anti-police sentiment on DU, props for having the integrity to look at the situation objectively rather than jump on the bandwagon.

[The Mouth]

24. Resisting an officer is *NEVER* going to end well

Last edited Thu Apr 14, 2022, 12:29 PM - Edit history (1)

Ever.

Do what the cop says, and if it's illegal fight it in court later. Or risk death. This is just the way it is everywhere.

For the life of me, I will never understand why anyone, under any circumstances, would risk arrest- you are NOT going to achieve anything other than getting into more trouble and greatly increasing your chance of getting shot or beaten.

A friend's brother managed to grab the baton away from the cop; mostly just to show he could. He got shot in the face and is now mentally and physically disabled.

It's "not fair", just like it isn't "fair" when some sweet little kid gets hit by a car because they dashed out into the street; all you can do is not put yourself in that situation.

Edited to add,

-Yes, I'm aware of several exceptions for politically connected, powerful (and always white) people; a judge or politician or super assertive rich guy will sometimes get away with giving the cop grief; but there is sometimes blowback. Still, not fair.

[dalton99a]

21. Compare and contrast

[exboyfil]

25. The big difference was two LEOs

One who still had his gun trained on the driver.

You are right a black driver would most likely have been shot under these circumstances. Disparate treatment.

Added - Throw the book at him.

When his case is resolved there, he faces six additional charges in Delaware County. These include obstructing official business, two counts of failure to comply with a police order, improperly handling a firearm and two aggravated menacing charges for threats made against the local officers.

Burr, 25, was clocked by the State Highway Patrol Dec. 2 at 85 mph in the southbound lanes of Interstate 71 near the Routes 36/37 interchange.

[Roc2020]

23. Very Sad. Very disturbing.

However, that cop gun could have been used on him...stolen from him...taser could have been used on the cop...car could have been stolen...etc etc Frankly as hard as it for me to say this...other than allowing the suspect to run off, what else could the cop have done? and what did the cop do wrong?

Are we now at the point where a cop cannot pull over a car with fake licensed plates? Just asking.

[Johnny2X2X]

30. Shooting a downed man in the back of the head was wrong

The officer was under no threat even if the guy had his taser (which he didn't end up having).

Guy was wrong for trying to get away, but he didn't throw a single punch or kick at the officer who hit him several times and tried to tase him twice. Officer escalated the situation and then when he couldn't get the man to comply, he shot him in the back of the head.

[NickB79]

38. No threat even if he had the taser?

That's a blatant lie if I ever heard one. A guy with a handheld weapon such as a knife can cover 10-15 feet before the other person can draw and shoot a handgun. And then you're assuming the shot is incapacitating and not a flesh wound. Even if the cartridges were depleted, a Taser with direct contact ability represents a real, lethal threat inside 20 feet, just like a knife.

[Johnny2X2X]

40. He was on the ground with his back turned to him

He shot a man in the back of the head who was laying on the ground. I don't care if he had a machine gun, you don't get to shoot someone in the back of the head while they're on the ground on their stomachs. One of the most terrible mistakes I've seen an officer make. The victim had not assaulted or harmed the officer, he was trying to get away, he was zero threat. The officer is the one who became physical with him, and was kicking and punching him, and tried to tase him twice. All the victim did was try to escape and then he grabbed the taser to keep from getting tased again, like anyone would. Officer is wearing tactical gear too, not easy to find a spot to tase him on with that gear he was wearing. Officer shot him in the back of the head, where was the threat to make that OK?

[NickB79]

43. You haven't been in many fights, or wrestling matches, I take it

Being on the ground is very fluid, and being on top is no guarantee of any type of control under intense physical exertion. It takes literally a second for the dynamic to flip.

And as others have pointed out, the cop had every right to stop him, request his license, and detain him when he refused. He had every right to tase him, and every right to become physical to detain him. And being alone, the cop had zero backup when the deceased refused to do as ordered.

When you fight a cop, don't expect a fair fight. That's the entire point of having law enforcement. It's not a duel, it's a takedown.

[Bayard]

26. Why would the cop have run the plates to begin with?

Black guy driving a nice car?

[LT Barclay]

34. Bingo! I know I'm radical in this but I think being required to display a license plate is

Unconstitutional, especially now that there are other ways to track a stolen vehicle.

[exboyfil]

35. No license plates

be prepared to see solve rate on crime to go down dramatically.

What would be a better approach is to require that LEOs have Reasonable Articulable Suspicion before running a plate.

[LT Barclay]

48. Maybe, but I doubt it. But I'm just looking at the constitutionality. From what I understand the

USSR had a low crime rate, but that is achievable in a surveillance state.

[llashram]

32. so many excuses for

murder/execution by LEOs. The back of the head or back shot of unarmed suspects is always suspicious to me. If the officer can't handle a suspect, backup calling is an option. Although in today's American racist climate they probably would have beaten the suspect to an inch of his life. No matter the excuses from people here for the LEO, killing this individual was not justified. Grand Rapids, Michigan. Must be a racist area. POC beware. Seems they will shoot you rather than disable. The officer seems to be undertrained for a close encounter of this sort.

Oh well, some here see justification in this murder. Cause a POC shouldn't be disrespectful to a white officer? Fear by the suspect? It's not justified? He may have been in a criminal situation, yet this officer seems untrained for close encounters of this sort and it escalated quickly and fatally.

But since the heyday of the lynching years, it has ALWAYS been that an unarmed black resisting suspect in an ALTERCATION WITH A WHITE COP WILL USUALLY END UP DEAD. While a Rittenhouse who commits murder openly of 2 unarmed individuals just has to cry a bit on the witness stand, he's free.

As a young child-man, I saw my celebration of the ripening of "strange fruit" below Stone Mountain, GA. I spent many a summer 'down in the valley' underneath. I knew when ugly was going to kick off, grandmother had us in early and the tv was louder than usual
https://www.kqed.org/lowdown/19119/stone-mountains-hidden-history-americas-biggest-confederate-memorial-and-birthplace-of-the-modern-ku-klux-klan

All I know is this mentality above is not gone and with trumps revival of open hate toward POC, African-Americans specifically, and the MILLIONS that followed, I can never again believe in the goodwill or restraint of cops toward an unarmed POC. I'm through with this travesty.

Addendum: American racism is as simple-complex as this: A new jeep factory was proposed for Detroit's eastside in 2019. It has turned into this. Yes, jobs are crucial yet the health implications for a 97% African-American neighbourhood community vs the "compromise" offered to a white community. And on and on, round and round it goes...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/how-a-new-jeep-factory-in-detroit-turned-into-a-civil-rights-fight/ar-AAVjTGh

[LiberatedUSA]

36. Tragic, but this would be a terrible example of police brutality.

This video is a classic step by step procedure on how not to act during a traffic stop. The cop used lethal force as a last resort instead of a first. He tried to use his taser to subdue an unwilling fighting suspect.

This officer will not face any legal consequences, as it will be ruled justified.

I would like to know more about why he felt the need to resist and run.

[gldstwmn]

39. Let me help you. He was walking around to the passenger's side to find his driver's license

because the passenger couldn't find it. He was trying to comply.

[Johnny2X2X]

41. Yes

He was complying and the officer grabbed him. Then he mistakenly freaked out and tried to run. The victim shouldn't have done that, but he wasn't fighting the officer, he was just trying to get away, he threw no strikes at the officer, none.

Officer broke procedure at most departments by not staying with the car and the person that was in it, if that guy had been armed the cop could have been dead.

Over a license plate.

This officer is trained to make better decisions than he did. Shooting someone point blank in the back of the head because you think they might have your taser is a crime. Not that the guy tried to use the taser on him, not that the guy was pointing the taser towards him, but that it may have been underneath them. You don't get to execute perceived threats until a threat actually materializes.

[NickB79]

44. Is that known, or a speculation on your part?

[Mortos]

46. Complete speculation

and not indicative of what we saw in the video.

[gldstwmn]

47. If you watch the video there is no speculating.

Lyoya is calmly walking to the passenger's side of the vehicle to get his driver's license because the passenger can't find it. You can also hear him saying "Put it down" to the cop when they were wrestling over the tazer. The cop should have at least tried to de-escalate but instead continues escalating the situation and shoots Lyoya execution style in the head.

[gldstwmn]

37. The police officer seemed poorly trained in de-escalation.

Also why are we still pulling people over for these bullshit traffic stops? The car had the wrong plates but unless the vehicle was stolen or those plates were traced to a crime the cop should have returned to his vehicle and requested backup. The guy said he spoke English but he didn't really look like he understood what the cop was asking him. I'm not sure why the cop didn't realize that?

[canetoad]

42. I can barely believe

What I have just seen. A couple of seconds and a life is gone.

[Dial H For Hero]

45. Tragic, but it appears a justifiable use of force.