CDC asks Justice Department to appeal judge's ruling that struck down mask mandate
Source: Washington Post
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has recommended that the Justice Department appeal a federal judges decision that struck down the mask mandate on public transportation, the agency announced. It is CDCs continuing assessment that at this time an order requiring masking in the indoor transportation corridor remains necessary for the public health, the agency said in a statement Wednesday evening. CDC believes this is a lawful order, well within CDCs legal authority to protect public health.
U.S. District Judge Kathryn Kimball Mizelle of the Middle District of Florida on Monday concluded that the mandate exceeded CDCs statutory authority, blindsiding the White House and sparking days of debate within the administration about whether to appeal the ruling. The Justice Department on Tuesday had said that it would wait for CDCs recommendation on whether to proceed with an appeal. Public health officials have worried that the ruling poses a risk to the CDCs authority, and outside experts had exhorted the Biden administration to act.
If the courts handcuff the CDC in this most classic exercise of public health powers, it seems to me that CDC will not be able to act nimbly and decisively when the next health crisis hits. And it will hit, said Lawrence O. Gostin, a Georgetown University professor of global health law, who advises the White House and urged them to appeal. If the decision is allowed to stand, Gostin said, the CDC will always be looking over its shoulder, always gun shy about exercising its powers.
But an appeal could tee up a battle at the Supreme Court, which has already dealt several blows to the administrations coronavirus policies and could issue a new ruling that further constrained CDCs attempts to fight future virus surges. Health experts had lamented Mondays court ruling, saying it confused Americans about the need for masking and could increase the risk of virus spread.
Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/04/20/cdc-seeks-mask-mandate/
I was hoping they hadn't done this -
The GOP has been trying to eliminate "healthcare" and "public health" from day one. They want "survival of the fittest" and are willing to kill people (and even themselves - see Herman Cain) to uphold that nonsense.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,635 posts)underpants
(182,938 posts)Its not stinking confusing. We know what works and anyone at risk has every tool available to them. That includes people who will be near people at risk.
The rightwing media is taking a victory lap but they seem to have convinced themselves that Trump lost specifically because of COVID. Those press events everyday were a disaster.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Unless CDC is planning on extending the mandate past May 3rd, an appeal is wasting everyones time. Itll likely be May 3rd before the appeal results is announced.
CDC messed up early on regarding masks, and royally screwed up on testing. Im sure trump didnt help, but hes been fired by voters.
pstokely
(10,531 posts)what if they decide it's not needed after that?
gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)Government officials face an uncertain reception at the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit, which reviews cases from Florida, Georgia and Alabama. A majority of the judgeswere appointed by President Donald Trump, as was Mizelle, a district court judge. The Biden administration could ask the appeals court to immediately put Mizelles ruling on hold and reinstate the mandate, which, if successful, would create a new wave of confusion for travelers using public transportation.
FBaggins
(26,774 posts)All I've seen is the DOJ's initial notice of appeal.
Will they ask for an emergency stay on the lower court's ruling? If not (absent a new surge in cases) the issue could be moot by the time the 11th circuit decides whether or not to even take the case.
That could be the best result (again - assuming that there isn't a new wave of infections). The administration clearly states that the lower court's ruling was incorrect, so nobody gets the notion that the CDC actually lacks this power... but there's no longer a need to adjudicate it.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)sheshe2
(83,945 posts)AS for survival of the fittest? It may just backfire on them. The GOP voters are stupid and they may just see far more Dem voters as their herd dies off.
YoshidaYui
(41,867 posts)and should be treated as such.
MichMan
(11,992 posts)Ace Rothstein
(3,192 posts)MichMan
(11,992 posts)FBaggins
(26,774 posts)The AP polled about a thousand people.
But there are thousands upon thousands of flights every day. It will quickly become obvious whether most people continue to wear masks on public transportation or not.
The small number of videos/photos from flights as the change was made imply that the overwhelming majority of travelers removed their masks.
Ace Rothstein
(3,192 posts)Everyone I know who has been in an airport and on a plane the last few days says the vast majority aren't masking. I'm in a 60/40 leans red area and I see maybe 10% of people masking.
MichMan
(11,992 posts)If everyone was masking voluntarily, there wouldn't really be a need for a mandate.
FBaggins
(26,774 posts)I doubt that it makes much difference if 90% of the population is maskless all day but wears a mask on flights.
MichMan
(11,992 posts)I assume they have scientific data to support their position.
FBaggins
(26,774 posts)The CDC has no power to create (let alone lift) mask mandates in the states/counties/cities. Local legislatures (or in many cases state constitutions) rest that power in their local executives.
The CDC just makes recommendations
and their current recommendation is that masks be worn indoors in areas where infection rates are high. Its up to the local executives to decide whether/how to implement that advice and whether infection rates in their area warrant it.
You made a statement in #27 that the mandate needs to be extended for several months. If youre deferring to the CDC you must be saying that you think infection rates in general are still high enough to warrant such a policy. Im just asking you to apply that belief to recent policy moves (almost exclusively made by democratic executives).
As an example
Philadelphia ended their local mask mandate a bit over a month ago
only to put it back in place a few days ago. Yet last night announced that the mandate ends today. The CDC certainly didnt change course twice since Monday.
So Ill ask again a different way - why do you think Democratic politicians are removing mask mandates that you think are still necessary if it isnt that they perceive the public to desire that change?
I only see two possibilities: either youre incorrect on the remaining health risk or these politicians are making bad policy decisions because they believe the public wants them to. Is there a third possibility?
MichMan
(11,992 posts)As you stated, the CDC by itself has no power to set mandates, however the administration bases federal policy on those CDC recommendations. When asked, the administration defers to the CDC as being the experts.
Even after nearly all states withdrew mask mandates, the CDC kept them in place for public transportation until May 3, and the administration agreed with that recommendation. My statement regarding keeping it in place after May 3 was strictly referring to the public transportation rules. Rules on which the administration believes they have the authority to set, or they wouldn't be appealing the recent court decision. The Federal government clearly does not have the authority to set nationwide mask mandates, which is why they deferred to the states from day one.
The fact that many people are questioning the decisions made by state and local elected politicians as being based on political considerations vs health concerns shows the lack of trust and cynicism of the public towards their elected representatives. The rapidly shifting mandates since the beginning of the pandemic have only exacerbated those levels of cynicism.
FBaggins
(26,774 posts)You claimed that the mandate needed to stay in place through the end of the year and Ace Rothstein said that sounded like a great way to lose a bunch of seats in the coming elections. You replied (based on a poll) that the public fairly overwhelmingly supported the mandate.
Our politicians are not acting as though they agree with you.
MichMan
(11,992 posts)I merely stated the poll numbers I saw regarding Federal mask mandates for public transportation. IMO, Health decisions should be based on protecting public safety responsibly, not on polling numbers. Some may disagree
If indeed, some elected officials are basing their decisions on political considerations, that only supports the cynicism many of the public have had since the beginning.
unweird
(2,555 posts)Maybe 10% wearing masks. Actually counted 2 of 34 in a sampling in Omaha yesterday morning while on the phone with a family member. Small sample size which I should have retested in Atlanta but didnt.
On the flight out Tuesday morning at 6 am the flight attendant announcements began with a good to see the smiling faces again which was met with scattered applause.
FBaggins
(26,774 posts)unweird
(2,555 posts)Four legs to the trip, two on Tuesday and two yesterday. And one in three seat mates were masked. Well, technically four but didnt count the guy in coach before I got pulled up to first class where I had no seat mate.
ificandream
(9,399 posts)Snackshack
(2,541 posts)The justice department will get right on this
BumRushDaShow
(129,636 posts)if/when CDC gave them the go-ahead. That was posted yesterday - https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142905861
(you may have missed it )
FBaggins
(26,774 posts)It's one thing to appeal because the lower court made a bad decision.
It's an entirely different thing to fight for the mask mandate to stay in place. Will they ask for a quick ruling and an emergency stay of the lower court's ruling while the appeal progresses? If not... they're technically appealing but de-facto allowing the mandate to end.
BumRushDaShow
(129,636 posts)No?
There is more and more concern about the potential loss of authority granted in the various Public Health laws due to unnecessary politicization of "health" in general, that is bubbling up from within the medical and public health community (and as people involved in "science", they have a tendency to be more introverted, less vocal, and often reticent about speaking up with their concerns - as a retired government scientist myself, I know how these folks are - basically nerds).
The problem here is that the era when those laws were drafted (during and post-WW2), society was a bit more duty-bound to follow the guidance (particularly due to the polio epidemic and so many other communicable diseases that were ravaging the country). So outside of some of the quarantine provisions, not much else has been "tested in court" - particularly nationally, as most of the mandates were being done at the state/county/local levels (e.g., "required vaccines for children to attend school, etc).
The one "federal" mandate that got challenged recently and has so far been beaten back, was the vaccine requirement for the military (I expect partially due to the UCMJ and the Constitution's designation of the President as the "Commander in Chief" ).
FBaggins
(26,774 posts)You're correct on the actual clash. The CDC's ability to regulate an area far more within their original mandate than things like evictions or OSHA's vaccine rules is absolutely something that should be defended.
The problem is... it probably can't be. Oh... I'm sure that the DOJ could get an emergency stay if they really want one, but that wouldn't resolve the ruling itself (just pause it). Actually overturning the ruling will probably take some time and, unless the CDC continues the mandate for months (which isn't likely), the case will be mooted before there's time to rule.
Whether the speculation in #10 is accurate or not, the administration's recent behavior at least implies that they want us to move forward from Covid (whatever that means). The short-term extensions of the mandate imply that the just want to make sure that infection numbers stay down before they let the mandate end... but they want it to end. Fighting for the right to create such mandates and fighting for the current one to stay in effect tomorrow... are two different things.
If #10 is questioning the DOJ on its willingness to fight for the first principle, they're probably wrong. But if they're questioning the second? I think they're correct.
BumRushDaShow
(129,636 posts)i.e., the January 6 investigations and prosecutions and pace of those activities (which require a or several grand juries). And this is despite the hundreds and hundreds of cases that are being worked and updated daily on their site - https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases (many of the cases are not "sexy enough" to make the national news media, so like young infants, if something is "not seen" then it has "disappeared" forever).
So that was the context that I used for that reply.
And there might be confusion here regarding what is essentially 3 different stories and if one of the 3 were missed, then it could skew the perspective -
#1 - A federal district court order throwing out the mask mandate
#2 - DOJ's offer to argue on behalf of CDC, which is obviously what generally happens in the federal government for certain cases because the majority of federal agencies are NOT "criminal" but "civil" and thus must work with both their agency's lawyers and DOJ's to provide the evidence in the format needed, so they can execute certain legal (notably criminal) actions as needed. In this case, it's possible CDC's OGC could do it but DOJ would probably have more resources. I know this well from when I was still working at my agency and interacted with local DOJ staffers many times for various issues like seizures, injunctions, consent decrees, etc., and had to draft up the dockets (using their template) for our agency's final review and submission (and we had people who did nothing but redacting). And as it was, all of our diaries and worksheets, etc were NARA archived for court/FOIA purposes as needed, based on whatever schedule was in place for them.
#3 - CDC's "public" acceptance of their assistance to go the next step to uphold their authority
It is a mixed bag in this case because the mandate was set to expire in a couple weeks but was extended... and I assume aside from the fact that BA2 has arrived and cases have crept up again, the nation is also coming out of a significant confluence of 3 major religious holidays (Easter, Passover, Ramadan) and those types of activities have been shown in the past to exasperate spread.
Here in PA, a similar state court ruling threw out the governor's mask mandate just short of its expiration and the governor let it go. But the follow up was that the RW loon state legislature here managed to push through a ballot question during a low turnout primary (after passing legislation 2 sessions in a row) to change the state Constitution and severely limit a governor's "emergency" powers - basically inserting themselves into that process to cut it off whenever they wanted after 2 weeks of such an order being in effect (no matter what type of emergency, including health or even disaster).
So the ramifications are significant when it comes to the GOP's focus on tearing down our democratic institutions and separations of power and I think this potential scenario is being deeply debated and next steps are being worked through.
SouthernDem4ever
(6,617 posts)I'll wear a mask when the CDC guidelines dictate, and the antivaxxer antimaskers can all croak for all I care. If they are that stupid, it's no longer my issue.
twodogsbarking
(9,840 posts)Guess that has already been struck down.
tclambert
(11,087 posts)I'm paraphrasing, but that was the gist of it. He said that on the ship of state, if you let the crew elect the captain, you may end up with an amiable idiot, someone the crew likes, who promises double grog rations and knows nothing about navigation or how a ship functions. You can expect to lose all hands during the first storm when you run into the rocks.
Owl
(3,644 posts)IronLionZion
(45,550 posts)More of our side is vaccinated. It could make a difference in some swing districts this November
Mr. Sparkle
(2,950 posts)Shes not qualified to be a judge in any way shape or form.