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Chrysanthemum

(188 posts)
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 03:52 PM Jun 2022

Russia will soon exhaust its combat capabilities, Western assessments predict

Source: Washington Post

The Russian military will soon exhaust its combat capabilities and be forced to bring its offensive in Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region to a grinding halt, according to Western intelligence predictions and military experts.

“There will come a time when the tiny advances Russia is making become unsustainable in light of the costs and they will need a significant pause to regenerate capability,” said a senior Western official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive issue.

....

Russia, meanwhile, is continuing to suffer heavy losses of equipment and men, calling into question how much longer it can remain on the attack, the official said.

Officials refuse to offer a time frame, but British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, citing intelligence assessments, indicated this week that Russia would be able to continue to fight on only for the “next few months.” After that, “Russia could come to a point when there is no longer any forward momentum because it has exhausted its resources,” he told the German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung in an interview.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/25/ukraine-russia-balance-of-forces/



May there truly be light at the end of this very dark tunnel.
48 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Russia will soon exhaust its combat capabilities, Western assessments predict (Original Post) Chrysanthemum Jun 2022 OP
I've been wondering about this wryter2000 Jun 2022 #1
I would certainly hope this must end DENVERPOPS Jun 2022 #32
They said this in March, April and May . They might be right by December. Srkdqltr Jun 2022 #2
they keep getting more oil money to fund their carnage. mucifer Jun 2022 #3
Oil prices are high now IronLionZion Jun 2022 #11
We could be working on that quakerboy Jun 2022 #13
Not much we can do, Russia is selling most their oil to China & India now. EX500rider Jun 2022 #19
They could be selling it all there quakerboy Jun 2022 #45
"we can supply our allies with our excess production and cut their need for buying russian oil" BumRushDaShow Jun 2022 #21
Wonder how long they can keep up the fire sale..... paleotn Jun 2022 #37
For them, it's better than nothing BumRushDaShow Jun 2022 #39
We can easily put a dent in oil usage blue-wave Jun 2022 #47
Yes, but it takes a lot of time to build new tanks, helicopters, etc. let alone replenish ammo stock machoneman Jun 2022 #20
Apparently China is buying a bunch Rural_Progressive Jun 2022 #14
Can't buy much of any use with the cash.... paleotn Jun 2022 #36
I checked this out NJCher Jun 2022 #6
Te former soviet union built up vast supplies of arms..... getagrip_already Jun 2022 #26
"Second, do you know who supplied them with those arms?" EX500rider Jun 2022 #31
From western components. paleotn Jun 2022 #38
But boy that sounds like a long hard time for Ukraine. calimary Jun 2022 #43
I hope so . ..... Lovie777 Jun 2022 #4
Good thing tfg isn't still in the White House, he'd allow putin to draft U.S. men and women. C Moon Jun 2022 #5
I'll march with you! NJCher Jun 2022 #7
:D C Moon Jun 2022 #10
And ship the Russkies our ammo and weapons. No doubt about it! machoneman Jun 2022 #22
LOL, NO SHIT DENVERPOPS Jun 2022 #33
Putin has exposed the weakness of his military LetMyPeopleVote Jun 2022 #8
That's the thing about bluffing - you can't actually show your hand. Jim__ Jun 2022 #15
Russia has combat capabilities? Lil Liberal Laura Jun 2022 #9
they are the second best military..... getagrip_already Jun 2022 #27
Russia has taken most of Luhansk, which includes prime farmland, industrial capacity, and a Martin68 Jun 2022 #12
Nad........ Lovie777 Jun 2022 #17
they wasted a enormous amount of their assets turning strategically irrelevant towns to rubble..... getagrip_already Jun 2022 #28
Thank you DENVERPOPS Jun 2022 #34
They are now getting ammo from Belarus.... BigmanPigman Jun 2022 #16
I remember seeing a story about a former soviet arms depot in belarus..... getagrip_already Jun 2022 #30
Sounds like both are scraping the bottom of the barrel. BigmanPigman Jun 2022 #41
All the more reason for NATO to send everything possible to help Ukraine now instead of Lonestarblue Jun 2022 #18
Reverse Stalingrad flashman13 Jun 2022 #23
This intelligence assessment appears accurate from an outsiders's point of view. LudwigPastorius Jun 2022 #24
And then counter-offensive time CloudWatcher Jun 2022 #25
Will the last Russian please turn the light at the end of the tunnel off . . . AndyS Jun 2022 #29
That moment can't come soon enough Raven123 Jun 2022 #35
Thank you all for an especially intelligent and informative comments section (one of many) housecat Jun 2022 #40
Heard this the first week of the invasion. BradAllison Jun 2022 #42
I have my doubts about this... See Syria for what modern war of attrition JCMach1 Jun 2022 #44
Every time I read something like this I say to myself: then why is Ukraine a field of rubble? Hekate Jun 2022 #46
Heckuva job Pooty Poot Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jun 2022 #48

DENVERPOPS

(8,835 posts)
32. I would certainly hope this must end
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 08:23 PM
Jun 2022

But, at the same time, I wonder what Putin will do if he doesn't succeed with Ukraine.....Turn to even more deathly weapons to satisfy his teenie weenie complex????

I feared what Trump would do if he lost the election in the many months he had before Biden took office and he had command of our nuclear arsenal.........

Trump and Putin are birds of a feather and have a psychological profile of the same attitude: "I'LL SHOW YOU".........

quakerboy

(13,920 posts)
13. We could be working on that
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 05:06 PM
Jun 2022

A national patriotic push to reduce fuel use at every level so that we can supply our allies with our excess production and cut their need for buying russian oil.

Instead we are too busy infighting, talking about how to get minute fuel price reductions instead of lowering fuel demand.

Last time i did the math, Russia was still getting paid more every day for oil than Ukraine is getting in weapons

BumRushDaShow

(129,133 posts)
21. "we can supply our allies with our excess production and cut their need for buying russian oil"
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 06:57 PM
Jun 2022

They have pretty much cut out Russian oil. And remember other than us and Russia, the OTHER big producer out there is still Saudi.

The "problem" is that China is Russia's biggest buyer and continues to do so unabated. From my handy dandy chart (and note that the European countries on there have pretty much ceased importing it) -



(although what LNG they were getting through the Nord 1 Pipeline was recently being significantly cut off by Russia, which might be the bigger problem)

So note that even as of 2020, China had almost 3x the amount of oil imports from Russia compared to the highest-importing European country. And that is with China still primarily using coal.

But now India has jumped in and has suddenly switched their oil buying from multiple sources, to having a large percentage coming from Russia due to Russia's heavily discounted price/bbl (I think the last I saw was that they were selling it at around the equivalent of $49/bbl).

This is what India used to do -



and then they switched -



So it's not Europe keeping Russia afloat, it's China and India as the biggest buyers, along with a few Russian-aligned countries chiming in.

paleotn

(17,931 posts)
37. Wonder how long they can keep up the fire sale.....
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 09:13 PM
Jun 2022

to India, China or whoever, when they have a hard time finding spares, plus expertise if they run into unusual problems. Tough environment, Siberia. Causes things to break more often than more benign environments.

BumRushDaShow

(129,133 posts)
39. For them, it's better than nothing
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 09:34 PM
Jun 2022

and it's a reliable source of income although obviously not enough to sustain their current level of national functions, let alone trying to engage in a significant war.

However they do still have China, who has who knows how many engineers that can reproduce anything (and China is probably the biggest copyright, patent, and intellectual property violator in the world because of that).

They recently turned on a gas pipeline to China (in 2019) - https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/es/market-insights/latest-news/natural-gas/120219-russia-starts-gas-deliveries-to-china-via-power-of-siberia



So China will make sure that stuff is flowing smoothly. That effort was initiated 8 years ago -

China, Russia sign $400 billion gas deal

By William Wan and Abigail Hauslohner
May 21, 2014

BEIJING — China signed a huge, long-awaited deal on Wednesday to buy Russian natural gas, giving Beijing a new source of clean energy and Moscow a diplomatic boost as it faces international sanctions for its aggressive actions in Ukraine.

With the stroke of a pen, Russia significantly shifted its economic relations with its neighbors, creating a major new export market to the east and reducing its reliance on European customers at a time when its relations with the West are at their lowest point since the Cold War. Russian President Vladimir Putin called the deal a “watershed event” and said implementation would start “tomorrow.”

The 30-year deal was announced after meetings in Shanghai between Putin and Chinese President Xi Jinping. It is worth an estimated $400 billion, Alexei Miller, chief executive of the Russian energy giant Gazprom, told Russian reporters. The deal marked a new partnership between two countries that have at times mistrusted each other but have also sought to counter U.S. influence in global affairs.

China’s booming economy has created a growing need for energy, especially cleaner sources of power, given its reliance on coal, which has produced major pollution problems. The agreement allows Russia to diversify its gas exports at a time when the crisis in Ukraine has accelerated calls in Europe to rely less on energy supplies from Russia. Europe gets about 30 percent of its gas from Russia.

(snip)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/china-russia-sign-400-billion-gas-deal/2014/05/21/364e9e74-e0de-11e3-8dcc-d6b7fede081a_story.html?hpid=z4


(i.e., the above was initiated after what happened when Russia invaded Crimea (resulting in sanctions), so Pootie had some backstop plans already in place when he invaded Ukraine again this year)

blue-wave

(4,356 posts)
47. We can easily put a dent in oil usage
Sun Jun 26, 2022, 12:51 PM
Jun 2022

if we would just convert all plastic products (oil based) to hemp based products. Hemp production in the U.S. was legalized in 2018. Most plastics can be replaced with hemp. Just imagine the positive impact on the environment and our health if we used biodegradable and renewable hemp based bags instead of plastic bags or water bottles or food packaging, etc. The benefit to our oceans alone would likely be monumental.

paleotn

(17,931 posts)
36. Can't buy much of any use with the cash....
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 08:48 PM
Jun 2022

Doesn't matter how much money you have if you can't buy what you need. All their high tech weaponry runs on chips, boards and other various components they can't get quality replacements for and can't build internally because they can't get suitable production equipment or expertise. They have a fleet of commercial aircraft Aeroflot and it's sister airlines more or less stole, for which they can't get certified spares and have already started cannibalizing to keep at least some airworthy. There's a number of foreign owned factories they also stole for which they can't buy suitable replacement equipment or spares. Does keep the Ruble afloat and to some degree the Russian economy, but beyond that, they're really in a pinch.

NJCher

(35,688 posts)
6. I checked this out
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 04:28 PM
Jun 2022

First, they had a formidable arms supply to start with. It takes time to diminish it, and that has been happening.

Second, do you know who supplied them with those arms?

That was a real disappointment to learn.

Finally, one way to look at this is that diminishing the Russian arms supply would be a strategic advantage for us--whether or not they attacked Ukraine, Putin was interfering with our elections and we all know the results. It has been nothing short of disastrous.

The Ukrainians are fully aware that we are accomplishing an important strategic objective for ourselves. Sadly, it is with their lives. We and other important nations may be picking up the tab, but don't think for a minute this curtailing of their arms is a nothing accomplishment--however long it takes.

getagrip_already

(14,764 posts)
26. Te former soviet union built up vast supplies of arms.....
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 07:36 PM
Jun 2022

Especially artillery. Apparently the ministry that made them kept getting leaders to increase orders. It was likely a grift of some sort, but they built an insane amount of stocks.

Of course, a lot of that would be pushing 50 years old by now. Long enough to start to corrode in place depending on how they were stored.

Nonetheless, there are reports out of belarus that russia is loading belarus' ammo onto trains and sending it to russia. They wouldn't need to do that if they still had a multi-year supply on hand.

EX500rider

(10,849 posts)
31. "Second, do you know who supplied them with those arms?"
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 08:01 PM
Jun 2022

The majority of Russian arms are Russian made.

DENVERPOPS

(8,835 posts)
33. LOL, NO SHIT
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 08:26 PM
Jun 2022

And order our military to re-stock his military with anything and everything.........

Martin68

(22,822 posts)
12. Russia has taken most of Luhansk, which includes prime farmland, industrial capacity, and a
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 04:45 PM
Jun 2022

corridor from Russia to Crimea, not to mention ports on the Black Sea. I'm afraid Putin and the rest of Russia would consider that a victory. Advanced weapons and training better hurry up or Ukraine will be up shit creek without a paddle. Once Russia takes territory, it doesn't give it up (just like Israel). The sanctions have failed, the ruble is at an all-time high, and Russia is making billions selling oil to China and India. If I sound pessimistic, it is because I'm pessimistic.

getagrip_already

(14,764 posts)
28. they wasted a enormous amount of their assets turning strategically irrelevant towns to rubble.....
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 07:41 PM
Jun 2022

I wouldn't worry too much about the few km of territory they scratched out. At least not yet.

If they can succeed in freezing the map, then they will have won something. But for now, it's just lines on a map moving back and forth. And fwiw, rus doesn't decide when or if the map gets frozen. UKR will have also something to say about it.

DENVERPOPS

(8,835 posts)
34. Thank you
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 08:27 PM
Jun 2022

You bring up many considerations and some excellent points.

again, thank you for your intelligent input........

getagrip_already

(14,764 posts)
30. I remember seeing a story about a former soviet arms depot in belarus.....
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 07:45 PM
Jun 2022

The thing was so massive, there were worries it would have the impact of a small nuke if it ever sparked off. It was also said that a lot of the ammunition was deteriorating so badly, that the casings were leaking and the explosives spilling out.

If that is where they are getting it, you have to wonder how well it will still work.

Lonestarblue

(10,019 posts)
18. All the more reason for NATO to send everything possible to help Ukraine now instead of
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 05:43 PM
Jun 2022

parceling out weapons a little bit at a time. If Ukrainians had been trained on more sophisticated weapons systems months ago, they might be in better shape now. If Russia is at its weakness, now is the time to hit them the hardest. This war needs to end yesterday.

flashman13

(667 posts)
23. Reverse Stalingrad
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 07:23 PM
Jun 2022

The Russians did not have the strength to close the pincers on the Severodonetsk salient so they resorted to head on frontal assaults. The Ukrainians are staging a well organized fighting retreat with limited forces to wear down the Russians (quite successfully I might add) while they wait to build forces and heavy equipment to the west. I don't think the Russians can keep up the fight for more than a month. When they finally stall out the Ukrainians will stage a large counter attack, cut off Russian forces, and destroy most of them. Then they will also take back the Donbas because the Russians will have used up the local opposition forces. It's a reverse Stalingrad. Perhaps the Russians should read up on their own history.

LudwigPastorius

(9,155 posts)
24. This intelligence assessment appears accurate from an outsiders's point of view.
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 07:33 PM
Jun 2022

Putin's proxies are ramping up their WWIII rhetoric, threatening to invade Lithuania and destroy London, Finland, and Great Britain in general.

If Russia truly only has a few months worth of fight left, it makes sense that they would start threatening a wider war in an attempt to get a more favorable settlement of the fighting in Ukraine.

CloudWatcher

(1,850 posts)
25. And then counter-offensive time
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 07:34 PM
Jun 2022

I hope this is true, and Ukraine will be able to take back the east and Crimea as well.

Russia cannot be allowed to keep any Ukrainian territory, it's a terrible precedent.

AndyS

(14,559 posts)
29. Will the last Russian please turn the light at the end of the tunnel off . . .
Sat Jun 25, 2022, 07:41 PM
Jun 2022

Just borrowed from the '70s Vietnam.

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