Jan. 6 committee interviews Mnuchin as probe expands into Trump Cabinet: Sources

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: ABC News

The House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol is working to secure testimony from a growing number of officials in former President Donald Trump's Cabinet, sources familiar with the matter tell ABC News. Trump's former Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, who reportedly discussed the possibility of invoking the 25th Amendment as a vehicle to remove Trump from office with then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, recently sat with committee investigators for a transcribed interview, the sources said.

ABC News previously reported that Pompeo is expected to speak with the committee in the coming days, though his interview is not officially scheduled. Among the officials actively negotiating with the committee are the former Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe and the former acting secretary for the Department of Homeland Security Chad Wolf, sources familiar with the negotiations said. Wolf would also be able to speak to Trump's desire to order the federal government to seize voting machines.

The engagement shows that even after the committee's round of dramatic public hearings, it continues to pursue additional evidence about what the administration's most senior officials knew about Trump's actions surrounding Jan. 6. Committee investigators are not only focused on the discussions surrounding the 25th Amendment that occurred within the Cabinet, but also Cabinet members' concerns after the attack on the Capitol about Trump's decision-making, including his potential conversations with world leaders.

Cassidy Hutchinson, a former top aide to then-White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, testified that Ratcliffe "didn't want much to do with the post-election period." Hutchinson said that Ratcliffe "felt that there could be dangerous repercussions, in terms of precedent set for elections, for our democracy, for the 6th. You know, he was hoping that we would concede." The committee also has expressed interest in speaking with other senior Trump officials like Robert O'Brien, the former national security adviser.

Read more: https://abcnews.go.com/US/jan-committee-deepens-probe-trump-cabinet-sources/story?id=87547851

---

Original article and headline (have updated to new source) -

Jan. 6 committee interviewed Mnuchin and engages with Trump-era Cabinet officials as it expands interest into 25th Amendment


(CNN)The House select committee investigating January 6 has interviewed former President Donald Trump's former Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, sources tell CNN. The committee is zeroing in on former officials from Trump's Cabinet for testimony and is particularly interested in learning more about conversations among officials about possibly invoking the 25th Amendment after the US Capitol attack.

Sources tell the CNN the committee is negotiating terms for a potential interview with former Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe. Given the classified nature of Ratcliffe's former role, there are unique issue the two sides have to work out. The committee will also interview former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo as soon as this week and is speaking with former acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney on Thursday.

The committee has also previously interviewed Ken Cuccinelli and reached out to Chad Wolf, two top officials from the Trump-era Department of Homeland Security, CNN reported last year.

A select committee spokesperson declined to comment. CNN has reached out to Mnuchin for comment. ABC News was first to report the Mnuchin interview.

This story is breaking and will be updated.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/28/politics/january-6-mnuchin-25th-amendment/

[DURHAM D]

1. Ha. I first read that as "interviewed Manchin".

My next thought was - Now I know why Manchin changed his vote.

[Raven123]

2. This is a curious turn. Wonder why.

The issues regarding the 25th came after the fact.

[BumRushDaShow]

3. I just changed the OP to use ABC News, which was the original source

that CNN was attributing their story to. I need to dig in their version now...

[Raven123]

4. Thanks. i guess I am still confused

What legislative purpose is behind the discussions regarding the 25th Amendment? Should be interesting

[BumRushDaShow]

7. The House actually passed a resolution specifically dealing with the 25th Amendment

because it's not just an "Executive Branch" decision.

H.Res.21 - Calling on Vice President Michael R. Pence to convene and mobilize the principal officers of the executive departments of the Cabinet to activate section 4 of the 25th Amendment to declare President Donald J. Trump incapable of executing the duties of his office and to immediately exercise powers as acting President.

H. Res. 21



In the House of Representatives, U. S.,

January 12, 2021.

Whereas on Wednesday, January 6, 2021, the day prescribed under section 15 of title 3, United States Code, for the counting of electoral votes, Congress

experienced a massive violent invasion of the United States Capitol and its complex by a dangerous insurrectionary mob which smashed windows and used violent physical force and weapons to overpower and outmaneuver the United States Capitol Police and facilitated the illegal entry into the Capitol of hundreds, if not thousands, of unauthorized persons (all of whom entered the Capitol complex without going through metal detectors and other security screening devices);

Whereas, the insurrectionary mob threatened the safety and lives of the Vice President, the Speaker of the House, and the President pro tempore of the Senate, the first

three individuals in the line of succession to the presidency, as the rioters were recorded chanting “Hang Mike Pence” and “Where’s Nancy” when President Donald J. Trump tweeted to his supporters that “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our country” after the Capitol had been overrun and the Vice President was in hiding;

Whereas the insurrectionary mob attacked law enforcement officers, unleashed chaos and terror among Members and staffers and their families, occupied the

Senate Chamber and Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office along with other leadership offices, vandalized and pilfered government property, and succeeded in interfering with the counting of electoral votes in the joint session of Congress;

Whereas the insurrectionary mob’s violent attacks on law enforcement and invasion of the Capitol complex caused the unprecedented disruption of the Electoral

College count process for a 4-hour period in both the House and the Senate, a dangerous and destabilizing impairment of the peaceful transfer of power that these insurrectionary riots were explicitly designed to cause;

Whereas 5 Americans have died as a result of injuries or traumas suffered during this violent attack on Congress and the Capitol, including Capitol Police Officer

Brian D. Sicknick and Ashli Babbitt, Rosanne Boyland, Kevin Greeson, and Benjamin Phillips, and more than 50 police officers were seriously injured, including 15 officers who had to be hospitalized, by violent assaults, and there could easily have been dozens or hundreds more wounded and killed, a sentiment captured by Senator Lindsey Graham, who observed that “the mob could have blown the building up. They could have killed us all”;

Whereas these insurrectionary protests were widely advertised and broadly encouraged by President Donald J. Trump, who repeatedly urged his millions of

followers on Twitter and other social media outlets to come to Washington on January 6 to “Stop the Steal” of the 2020 Presidential election and promised his activist followers that the protest on the Electoral College counting day would be “wild”;

Whereas President-elect Joseph R. Biden won the 2020 Presidential election with more than 81 million votes and defeated President Trump 306–232 in the

Electoral College, a margin pronounced to be a “landslide” by President Trump when he won by the same Electoral College numbers in 2016, but President Trump never accepted these election results as legitimate and waged a protracted campaign of propaganda and coercive pressure in the Federal and State courts, in the state legislatures, with Secretaries of State, and in Congress to nullify and overturn these results and replace them with fraudulent and fabricated numbers;

Whereas President Trump made at least 3 attempts to intervene in the lawful vote counting and certification process in Georgia and to coerce officials there into

fraudulently declaring him the winner of the State’s electoral votes, including calls to Georgia Governor Brian Kemp and a State elections investigator, and an hour-long conversation with Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger badgering him to “find 11,780 votes” and warning of a “big risk” to Raffensperger if he did not intervene favorably to guarantee the reelection of President Trump;

Whereas President Trump appeared with members of his staff and family at a celebratory kickoff rally to encourage and charge up the rioters and insurrectionists

to “walk down to the Capitol” and “if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore” on Wednesday, January 6, 2021;

Whereas while violent insurrectionists occupied parts of the Capitol, President Trump ignored or rejected repeated real-time entreaties from Speaker Nancy Pelosi

and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer to appeal to his followers to exit the Capitol, and also ignored a tweet from Alyssa Farah, his former communications director, saying: “Condemn this now, @realDonaldTrump—you are the only one they will listen to. For our country!”;

Whereas photographs, cell phone videos, social media posts, and on-the-ground reporting show that numerous violent insurrectionists who invaded the Capitol

were armed, were carrying police grade flex cuffs to detain and handcuff people, used mace, pepper spray, and bear spray against United States Capitol Police officers, erected a gallows on Capitol grounds to hang “traitors,” vehemently chanted “Hang Mike Pence!” while surrounding and roving the Capitol, emphasized that storming the Capitol was “a revolution,” brandished the Confederate battle flag inside the Capitol, and were found to be in possession of Napalm B, while still unidentified culprits planted multiple pipe bombs at buildings near the Capitol complex, another lethally dangerous criminal action that succeeded in diverting law enforcement from the Capitol; and

Whereas Donald Trump has demonstrated repeatedly, continuously, and spectacularly his absolute inability to discharge the most basic and fundamental powers

and duties of his office, including most recently the duty to respect the legitimate results of the Presidential election, the duty to respect the peaceful transfer of democratic power under the Constitution, the duty to participate in legally defined transition activities, the duty to protect and uphold the Constitution of the United States, including the counting of Electoral College votes by Congress, the duty to protect the people of the United States and their elected representatives against domestic insurrection, mob rule, and seditious violence, and generally the duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That the House of Representatives calls upon Vice President Michael R. Pence—

(1) to immediately use his powers under section 4 of the 25th Amendment to convene and mobilize the principal officers of the executive departments in the Cabinet to declare what is obvious to a horrified Nation: That the President is unable to successfully discharge the duties and powers of his office; and

(2) to transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives notice that he will be immediately assuming the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Attest:





Clerk.

This is the 25th Amendment -

25th Amendment

Amendment XXV

Section 1.

In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

Section 2.

Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

Section 3.

Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.

Section 4.

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxxv

[Raven123]

10. I assume then Congress is contemplating means of invoking the 25th not specified currently.

Talk about a Pandora’s Box.

[BumRushDaShow]

14. I wouldn't be surprised if they consider passing legislation

that clarifies the process of invocation in this circumstance (not medical-procedure related).

Believe it or not, the 25th has been invoked multiple times if a President is undergoing a procedure that requires surgery and/or anesthesia. I.e., the Speaker of the House and President Pro temp of the Senate are "formally notified" and the VP becomes "acting President", and then when the procedure is completed, the power is transferred back.

For example, you had whining and handwringing when Obama opted for a "Virtual Colonoscopy" (vs a regular one that normally requires anesthesia) -

Virtual colonoscopy: good enough for the president but not the American public?


March 2, 2010
Greg Frieherr

On Feb. 28 President Obama was screened for colorectal cancer using CT colonography. The results from this exam, also called virtual colonoscopy, along with those from the rest of the president’s annual physical, which was done at the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, described the president as “fit for duty.” On Feb. 28 President Obama was screened for colorectal cancer using CT colonography. The results from this exam, also called virtual colonoscopy, along with those from the rest of the president’s annual physical, which was done at the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, described the president as “

.”

(snip)

“It is still being viewed as a lesser test even though, for those in the know, it is the preferred test in almost every way,” said Pickhardt, who led the study done at the Bethesda Naval Hospital and published an article in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2003 that put virtual colonoscopy on the medical map.

Conventional colonoscopy was an option for Obama in his physical last weekend. It was chosen, in fact, several years ago by his predecessor, George W. Bush, who temporarily handed over executive powers to the vice president because of the needed sedation.

Obama might have wanted to avoid having to make such a transfer. But it’s doubtful that the president’s physician would have opted for an exam if it were not a reliable clinical test to screen for cancer. No worries there, says Pickhardt. Polyps as small as 6 mm are evident on CTC, he said, making the technology at least as good as optical colonoscopy.

https://www.cancernetwork.com/view/virtual-colonoscopy-good-enough-president-not-american-public

[Novara]

5. I'm also confused

"The committee is zeroing in on former officials from Trump's Cabinet for testimony and is particularly interested in learning more about conversations among officials about possibly invoking the 25th Amendment after the US Capitol attack."

What can be done about it now?

Let's not forget that the committee has the task of looking into Jan 6 for many reasons, and one of them ostensibly is fact-finding for future legislation so that this never happens again.

Maybe they're thinking about some sort of automatic provision if a certain number of cabinet embers question a president's mental state? Like an automatic independent evaluation or something? But before the attack would have happened would be better than after.

Because if this isn't for some specific purpose, then it does look like a political witch hunt (not that I mind, but it detracts form the stellar work they've done so far).

[BumRushDaShow]

8. See my post above

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2948807

[Novara]

9. Does that resolution have any enforcement provisions? I don't think it does.

But if it does, then I can see why they are going there.

[BumRushDaShow]

11. *puts on Khizr Khan" costume*

Repeating - This is the 25th Amendment (highlighting "Section 4.) -

25th Amendment

Amendment XXV

Section 1.

In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

Section 2.

Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

Section 3.

Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.

Section 4.

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxxv

I.e., Section 4 requires that the Cabinet communicate with the Speaker and President Pro tempore regarding the disposition of the President because there is that "succession" thing going on where the Speaker of the House is in there high up on the list (and I won't even get into all the fervor around the "hang Mike Pence" stuff that had gone on, which makes it even more important to drop the clown show act an get serious).

It's possible that they know OR suspect, based on certain testimony, that might or might not be "public", that such a "written declaration" to invoke the 25h Amendment may have been drafted by members of the Cabinet and was being circulated, and possibly ready to send to the Legislative Branch (Speaker of the House and President Pro tempore), and someone might have blocked it (or Pence thought it over - maybe holding it overnight, and made a decision to not go that route).

I remember when all of this was going down with the 25th Amendment bit, hearing about some of the Department heads actually gathering with Pence.

[pnwmom]

12. This is in line with other questioning. They need to know what Trump was telling people

during this time, including whatever he was saying that led people to think about the 25th amendment.

[certainot]

6. 25th amendment presents the possibility to ask them about trump WANTING COVID to get worse

otherwise limbaugh would not have called it a hoax for weeks.

trump got the worst case intel briefings and it sounded good to him - emergency powers, state of emergency, election delays, profiteering on vaccines, meds, medical equipment, and so on

his insanity is from sex on the wrong brain - a very bad case - which has been normalized - it's how authoritarian leaders who can do anything they want think but we have some democracy

[PSPS]

13. "including his potential conversations with world leaders."

This means he was talking to putin, erdogan, kim, orban, el-Sisi and the rest of "his favorite people" making promises and seeking advice. Maybe even Johnson and Netanyahu.

[Martin68]

15. Keep drilling down. That's how you get to the man at the top. How's that for a mixed metaphor?