NATO believes Baltic Sea gas leaks were sabotage
Source: AP
By JAN M. OLSEN
COPENHAGEN, Denmark (AP) The NATO military alliance warned Thursday it would retaliate for any attacks on the critical infrastructure of its 30 member countries and joined other Western officials in citing sabotage as the likely cause of damage to two natural gas pipelines in the Baltic Sea.
The warning came as the Swedish coast guard confirmed a fourth leak on the pipelines off southern Sweden, which is in the process of joining NATO. The first leaks in the pipelines that extend from Russia to Germany were reported on Tuesday, prompting energy companies and European governments to beef up security.
The fear of further damage to Europes energy infrastructure has added pressure on natural gas prices, which had already been soaring. Russia, a major supplier to Europe, cut off deliveries earlier this year in retaliation for sanctions imposed after its invasion of Ukraine. That has caused widespread economic pain across the continent.
NATO ambassadors said in a statement that any deliberate attack against allies critical infrastructure would be met with a united and determined response. They refrained from saying who they thought was responsible, even though some allies like Poland, and many experts, have said they believe that Russia is responsible.
In this picture provided by Swedish Coast Guard, the gas leak in the Baltic Sea from Nord Stream photographed from the Coast Guard's aircraft on Wednesday, Sept. 27, 2022. A fourth leak on the Nord Stream pipelines has been reported off southern Sweden. Earlier, three leaks had been reported on the two underwater pipelines running from Russia to Germany. (Swedish Coast Guard via AP)
Read more: https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-sweden-baltic-sea-a03cc4816da6c1ddb401119ffd5a8f93?utm_source=homepage&utm_medium=TopNews&utm_campaign=position_09
TheBlackAdder
(28,216 posts).
A Tucker Carlson segment focused on the purported sabotage of the Nord Stream gas pipelines connecting Russia and Europe, which the Fox News anchor appeared to blame on the US.
Speaking following reports of leaks in the Nord Stream pipeline on Tuesday, Mr Carlson suggested that the Biden administration was behind the sabotage and act of environmental terrorism and warned of a Russian counter-response.
Blow up the Nord Stream pipelines? OK, weve entered a new phase, one in which the United States is directly at war with the largest nuclear power in the world, said the Fox News anchor.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/tucker-carlson-nord-stream-pipeline-russia-b2177405.html
The following C&L article goes into other stuff:
https://crooksandliars.com/2022/09/tucker-carlson-suggests-united-states
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Turbineguy
(37,369 posts)Mister Ed
(5,944 posts)But yes, a genuine traitor, just like both of them.
LastDemocratInSC
(3,650 posts)Turbineguy
(37,369 posts)Warpy
(111,352 posts)not even as a false flag because Russia had no motive, either. Can't blackmail the world over a major pipeline if that pipeline gets trashed. Putin's gone bonkers, but not quite that bonkers.
The gas that's coming up isn't sabotage, either, it's the gas that remained in the pipeline after it was shut off. The pressure was too low to render it useful, just high enough that the remaining methane will escape through holes.
It's so addlepated, clumsy and self defeating that I can't imagine any government being behind it.
Gore1FL
(21,152 posts)maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)Only Russia has the motive - chaos.
TheBlackAdder
(28,216 posts)maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)Rusher has submersibles and motive.
LastDemocratInSC
(3,650 posts)An underwater craft, manned or not, could have created holes large enough to cause the damage.
manicdem
(390 posts)50 to 110 meters in depth. technical divers could easily reach it. Or cheap submersible drone.
Bayard
(22,154 posts)The Unmitigated Gall
(3,833 posts)Known as a pig, equipped with an explosive device, through the pipe and blow it up that way as well.
Need to get down there and look at this.
IronLionZion
(45,534 posts)and they are filled with spite
manicdem
(390 posts)Russia relies on gas sales to Europe which is a large percentage of their economy. So definitely not Russia. Not EU either since they really need the gas.
It has to be Ukraine, US, or one of the surrounding countries not reliant on Russian gas.
Water is shallow, 50 to 100M so divers or cheap drones could sabotage it.
ck4829
(35,091 posts)manicdem
(390 posts)Russia cares about power and money, not people. So blowing up apartments is no problem for them. Giving up a lot of money and power through the pipeline is.
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)A. Ukraine
B. the US
C. Finland, the Baltics, Poland, etc.
1. Ukraine - obvious one is they're at war with Russia. Europe needs Russia's gas, especially as we head toward winter. Europe is going to be pressured to reduce funding to Ukraine as a concession for Russian gas. The money Russia makes selling gas flowing through the pipeline funds Russias war efforts, and resupply in the future.
2. US - US is the leading nation helping Ukraine, also as a proxy war with Russia. Weakening Russia through the war and ravaging their economy keeps them at bay and reduces their world influence. It prevents future Russian wars with allies, prevents Russia aiding other countries like Syria, etc. Stopping Russia makes it easier on the US and the world.
3. Surrounding countries - They are threatened by future engagements with Russia. Russia was expanding their borders with Ukraine, and probably wanted to takeover the entire country. Russia would not stop there and continue with other bordering nations in the future. Those nations know it which is why many of them are aiding Ukraine and bolstering their military funding and trying to join NATO. Stopping the pipeline from aiding Russia's economy is in their best interest.
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)I think those are all pretty far-fetched. The pipelines will be repaired - sooner rather than later. That amount of Methane needs to be stopped quickly.
manicdem
(390 posts)War with Ukraine is far fetched?
manicdem
(390 posts)I took the bait.
There's no way you could be serious in asking what motive Ukraine had.
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)and I don't think they want to hurt their allies.
If I'm sarcastic I'll use
manicdem
(390 posts)Any country that cuts off aid to Ukraine and funds Russia is not an ally.
It doesn't take much to disable the pipeline. The relatively shallow waters allow for divers to reach it with common types of tech diver equipment. The pipeline should be relatively robust, but a few pounds of explosives or tools or other means could disable it without too much difficulty.
Kaleva
(36,351 posts)As using nukes would result in repercussions that would destroy Russia's economy.
manicdem
(390 posts)Right now, nukes are a bluff to prevent more aid and assistance from flowing into Ukraine. Or allies going to war with Russia. If this was any other country, like Syria, US would've been fighting in Ukraine already. The odds of Russia using nukes now is very remote, but the risk is still high because of the extreme consequences.
If Russia or Putin is threatened by Allies invading and taking over Russia , then there is a good possibility Russia would use nukes, even on their own soil. Again they don't care about their people, they care about money and power.
Crataegus
(60 posts)I believe that the Nord Stream pipelines were sabotaged by Russia. Europe was on a path to move to a more carbon neutral stance. These pipelines were always ment to keep Europe dependant on Russian gas. They were always to be used as a weapon. Now that putin has made his move these pipelines are expendable. All the Nord Stream contracts will fail due to non deliverance. The severe penalties for non delivery of product are waived for 'Acts of God' or terrorism. Putin can punish Europe for backing Ukraine, sell his gas to China or India, and tear up his Euro contracts penalty free. Yes, Putin is a dick.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,215 posts)He ordered it and will blame Ukraine and/or the US. Perhaps he'll blame his next target to invade, like Latvia, Estonia or Lithuania
Xolodno
(6,401 posts)It took possible pipelines in their own nations off the table and thus no transit fees.
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/polish-eu-parliament-member-on-nord-stream-explosion:-thank
Former Polish minister and member of the European Parliament Radoslaw Sikorski had no reservations about who could have been responsible for Monday's Nord Stream pipeline explosion that shut off Germany from Russian gas.
On Tuesday, Sikorski tweeted "Thank you USA," along with a picture of the massive gas spill in the Baltic Sea. Off the shore of the Danish island of Bornholm, both pipelines sustained significant damage in what is now largely seen as a premeditated attack.