Georgia DA floats immunity deals for fake electors as investigation into Trump hits roadblock

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: CNN Politics

Washington CNN — The Atlanta-area prosecutor investigating Donald Trump and his allies has hit a roadblock in her effort to gain testimony from some of the state Republicans who signed on as fake electors in order to thwart Joe Biden’s 2020 victory in Georgia. Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis took an aggressive approach in dealing with Georgia’s group of 16 GOP electors, subpoenaing at least 12 of them over the summer and labeling all of them targets who could face indictment.

But that tactic appears to have undermined her ability to obtain potentially crucial testimony from the exact people who could provide inside accounts of the operation to overturn the election in Georgia, including what if any role the former president played. Willis has recently attempted to lower the temperature by floating the possibility of immunity for some of the electors if they agree to appear before the grand jury, according to people familiar with the matter.

So far, that strategy has met with little success, those people tell CNN. The fight with the Georgia fake electors marks a distinct change from earlier in the investigation, when Willis was able to gain at least some cooperation from a handful of them. Willis obtained testimony from at least one member of the broader group of 16 GOP electors, Ken Carroll, who confirmed to CNN he has testified before the Fulton County grand jury. Eleven of those electors, some of whom were initially cooperative, have recently balked at Willis’ tactics.

The group has hired the same pair of attorneys and refused to answer questions before the special grand jury, in large part to protect their right against self-incrimination. Willis has taken aim at their joint legal representation and has sought to have their attorneys disqualified, as she tries to nail down testimony from the electors. Prosecutors working with Willis argued in a recent court filing that having the same attorneys represent the group is a conflict “rife with serious ethical problems.” A spokesperson for Willis declined to comment.

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/16/politics/fulton-county-da-georgia-fake-electors-investigation-fake-electors-roadblock-immunity/index.html

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Full headline: CNN Exclusive: Georgia DA floats immunity deals for fake electors as investigation into Trump hits roadblock

[Faux pas]

1. ...

[Hugh_Lebowski]

2. The article is fucking annoying ...

"dealing with Georgia’s group of 16 GOP electors"

THEY'RE NOT FUCKING ELECTORS.

"floating the possibility of immunity for some of the electors"

THEY'RE NOT FUCKING ELECTORS.

Eleven of those electors, some of whom were initially cooperative

THEY'RE NOT FUCKING ELECTORS.

as she tries to nail down testimony from the electors

THEY'RE NOT FUCKING ELECTORS.

CNN sucks

[Bernardo de La Paz]

4. Spot on. . . . nt

[ancianita]

6. She can prosecute them on the merits; on what they actually signed on to. It's corporate hype.

She's not hit a roadblock. She should indict and take them to trial.

No immunity. Sworn testimony from every single one and convict based on their documented signatures.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

7. Awesome, I can't wait to point and laugh at these 16 rando nobody RePuQ's

when I drive by and see them in orange vests, picking up trash on the side of the highway, doing their community service and 1 year probation for their misdemeanors ... while IQ45 runs for POTUS and tears the country apart.

It'll be very satisfying.

[thesquanderer]

10. Except that doesn't help her go after the "higher ups" which seems to be who she's really after. n/t

[BumRushDaShow]

11. This "grand jury" is not the criminal one

It's a "special grand jury" to get evidence to decide whether to refer to an actual "criminal" grand jury. So there will be no charges/indictments from the process she is going through right now.

Georgia has a weird system of jurisprudence.

[ancianita]

13. That's right. I learned that awhile back and promptly forgot that. Thanks for the reminder.

Even the evidence she has in hand would be sufficient for them to refer to a criminal grand jury. This seems like more testing of the jury system, which is as much under attack as rule of law.

[BumRushDaShow]

14. She definitely should have enough to go to a regular Grand Jury

But I *think* there is a time limit to her probe before some kind of decision is made to move it forward or not, and she is probably close to the end.

[ancianita]

16. She does, and there's always the thing the courts like -- an abundance of "due process," -- which

drags justice but can prevent appeals, too. That's the tack I think she takes to convince the evidentiary grand jury that they've indeed tried, and can now proceed to criminal grand jury referral.

[BumRushDaShow]

17. I'm still triying to find out if Mark Meadows showed up

He was due to testify today after Cassidy Hutchinson. If he did, they probably would have snuck him in a back way!

[ancianita]

18. If such news exists, I'm sure you'll find it. But with corporate media ... it won't get the front

page.

[Backseat Driver]

12. Exactly, Hugh_Lebowski! n/t

[Bernardo de La Paz]

3. "same pair of attorneys"? As who? Badly written if excerpt is first 4 paras

"same" would refer to an earlier detail, but I can't find it in the excerpt.

"hired the same pair"? "The group" is making the same hiring decision as what other group or individual? I don't see it.

[thesquanderer]

9. re: "'same pair of attorneys'? As who?"

I read it as, these people (the "group&quot are all hiring the same pair of attorneys as each other.

[Karma13612]

24. That's how I

Read it as well.

[forgotmylogin]

5. If they do float them a deal (which is a horrible idea)

it needs to include being barred from holding public office or working for the government in any capacity.

[riversedge]

8. Darn. I was thinking Georgia was the best chance of getting Trump charged. My

patience is wearing thin.

[BlueIdaho]

15. Sadly TFG will see cause and effect

Where there is none. Charge the fucker and let’s get this show on the road!

[TomDaisy]

19. CNN seems very sympathetic to the fascist criminals

[BumRushDaShow]

20. Since I post a billion LBN threads

generally "CNN Politics" has been scooping other sources and has been pretty neutral, which is shocking. This article is DEFINITELY an exception however.

[Takket]

21. um, shouldn't the Feds be looking into the fake electors?

I live in Michigan and our AG turned over the fake elector scheme to DOJ because it was on a national scale. If GA starts handing out immunity to these people doesn't that undermine DOJ?

[BumRushDaShow]

23. They are but be aware of this --

"Elections" are the responsibility of the STATE, as are "Electors". It has always been that "loophole" that limits the scope of federal involvement in the machinations of "elections" in a state, outside of federal elections, but applies even for federal elections absent some kind of cogent federal law. And what GA is "floating" has to do with STATE law vs FEDERAL law.

Article I

(snip)

Section 4.

The times, places and manner of holding elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each state by the legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by law make or alter such regulations, except as to the places of choosing Senators.

The Congress shall assemble at least once in every year, and such meeting shall be on the first Monday in December, unless they shall by law appoint a different day.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlei

The handling of Electors as specified by the 12th Amendment, had an attempt to be "clarified" by the "Electoral Count Act of 1877" (PDF), which was further codified in statute -

3 U.S. Code § 15 - Counting electoral votes in Congress

U.S. Code
Notes

prev | next

Congress shall be in session on the sixth day of January succeeding every meeting of the electors. The Senate and House of Representatives shall meet in the Hall of the House of Representatives at the hour of 1 o’clock in the afternoon on that day, and the President of the Senate shall be their presiding officer. Two tellers shall be previously appointed on the part of the Senate and two on the part of the House of Representatives, to whom shall be handed, as they are opened by the President of the Senate, all the certificates and papers purporting to be certificates of the electoral votes, which certificates and papers shall be opened, presented, and acted upon in the alphabetical order of the States, beginning with the letter A; and said tellers, having then read the same in the presence and hearing of the two Houses, shall make a list of the votes as they shall appear from the said certificates; and the votes having been ascertained and counted according to the rules in this subchapter provided, the result of the same shall be delivered to the President of the Senate, who shall thereupon announce the state of the vote, which announcement shall be deemed a sufficient declaration of the persons, if any, elected President and Vice President of the United States, and, together with a list of the votes, be entered on the Journals of the two Houses. Upon such reading of any such certificate or paper, the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any. Every objection shall be made in writing, and shall state clearly and concisely, and without argument, the ground thereof, and shall be signed by at least one Senator and one Member of the House of Representatives before the same shall be received. When all objections so made to any vote or paper from a State shall have been received and read, the Senate shall thereupon withdraw, and such objections shall be submitted to the Senate for its decision; and the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, in like manner, submit such objections to the House of Representatives for its decision; and no electoral vote or votes from any State which shall have been regularly given by electors whose appointment has been lawfully certified to according to section 6 of this title from which but one return has been received shall be rejected, but the two Houses concurrently may reject the vote or votes when they agree that such vote or votes have not been so regularly given by electors whose appointment has been so certified. If more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State shall have been received by the President of the Senate, those votes, and those only, shall be counted which shall have been regularly given by the electors who are shown by the determination mentioned in section 5 of this title to have been appointed, if the determination in said section provided for shall have been made, or by such successors or substitutes, in case of a vacancy in the board of electors so ascertained, as have been appointed to fill such vacancy in the mode provided by the laws of the State; but in case there shall arise the question which of two or more of such State authorities determining what electors have been appointed, as mentioned in section 5 of this title, is the lawful tribunal of such State, the votes regularly given of those electors, and those only, of such State shall be counted whose title as electors the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide is supported by the decision of such State so authorized by its law; and in such case of more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State, if there shall have been no such determination of the question in the State aforesaid, then those votes, and those only, shall be counted which the two Houses shall concurrently decide were cast by lawful electors appointed in accordance with the laws of the State, unless the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide such votes not to be the lawful votes of the legally appointed electors of such State. But if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of the counting of such votes, then, and in that case, the votes of the electors whose appointment shall have been certified by the executive of the State, under the seal thereof, shall be counted. When the two Houses have voted, they shall immediately again meet, and the presiding officer shall then announce the decision of the questions submitted. No votes or papers from any other State shall be acted upon until the objections previously made to the votes or papers from any State shall have been finally disposed of.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/3/15

This is why Congress is trying to FIX the mess that the Electoral Count Act of 1877 exacerbated attempting to deal with the vagueness of the Article I, Sect. 4 and the 12th Amendment, and both chambers have their own versions. The House already passed their version -

H.R.8873 - Presidential Election Reform Act

The Senate has their own slightly different version being worked on that had garnered enough to invoke cloture but is slightly different from the House version -

S.4573 - Electoral Count Reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act of 2022

The new legislation is to avoid this kind of mess with the Electors and includes, for example, underscoring the fact that the VP's role with the Electoral count is "ceremonial", where the VP cannot "overturn an election".

DOJ supposedly now has a grand jury for the Electors issue but that does not negate the fact that states are still responsible for elections and can choose to adjudicate violations of their own state law -

Intensifying Inquiry Into Alternate Electors Focuses on Trump Lawyers

In recent subpoenas, federal prosecutors investigating alternate slates of pro-Trump electors sought information about Rudolph W. Giuliani, John Eastman and others.

By Alan Feuer, Katie Benner and Luke Broadwater

May 25, 2022



The Justice Department has stepped up its criminal investigation into the creation of alternate slates of pro-Trump electors seeking to overturn Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s victory in the 2020 election, with a particular focus on a team of lawyers that worked on behalf of President Donald J. Trump, according to people familiar with the matter. A federal grand jury in Washington has started issuing subpoenas in recent weeks to people linked to the alternate elector plan, requesting information about several lawyers including Mr. Trump’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani and one of his chief legal advisers, John Eastman, one of the people said.

The subpoenas also seek information on other pro-Trump lawyers like Jenna Ellis, who worked with Mr. Giuliani, and Kenneth Chesebro, who wrote memos supporting the elector scheme in the weeks after the election. A top Justice Department official acknowledged in January that prosecutors were trying to determine whether any crimes were committed in the scheme.

Under the plan, election officials in seven key swing states put forward formal lists of pro-Trump electors to the Electoral College on the grounds that the states would be shown to have swung in favor of Mr. Trump once their claims of widespread election fraud had been accepted. Those claims were baseless, and all seven states were awarded to Mr. Biden.

It is a federal crime to knowingly submit false statements to a federal agency or agent for an undue end. The alternate elector slates were filed with a handful of government bodies, including the National Archives. The focus on the alternate electors is only one of the efforts by the Justice Department to broaden its vast investigation of hundreds of rioters who broke into the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.

(snip)

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/25/us/politics/pro-trump-lawyers-elector-scheme.html

But note that GA is unique because the investigation here is not just "Electors" but has been delving into the pressuring shakedown calls from outside top elected officials, including the President of the United States, to GA state elected officials, encouraging them to fraudulently generate enough popular votes to allow the state to declare the majority to be for 45 instead of Biden.

[Sedona]

22. Good Atlanta Journal-Constitution Podcast Here

Starts at Chapter Nine.

It's quite the deep dive into the Georgia TFG investigation


https://listen.stitcher.com/yvap/?af_dp=stitcher://show/65710&af_web_dp=https://www.stitcher.com/show/65710&deep_link_value=stitcher://show/65710