Donald Trump argues in wild court filing that New York can't sue the Trump Organization because it d

[MissMillie]

Source: Business Insider via MSN

Donald Trump argues in wild court filing that New York can't sue the Trump Organization because it doesn't legally exist


Donald Trump, his real-estate company and his three eldest children have filed an extraordinary, nose-thumbing response to the $250 million fraud lawsuit filed by New York Attorney General Letitia James in September, stating that "Trump Organization" is branding shorthand — not a legal entity — so it can't be sued.

"To the extent a response is required, Defendant specifically denies the definitions of "Trump Organization" and "Defendants," reads Donald Trump's response to the lawsuit, one of 16 answers filed late Thursday night.

"While the shorthand "Trump Organization" is utilized by Defendants for branding and business purposes, no entity as such exists for legal purposes," Donald Trump's response continues, using language that is repeated throughout his 300-page filing and throughout the similarly-lengthy 15 filings of his fellow defendants.


Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/donald-trump-argues-in-wild-court-filing-that-new-york-can-t-sue-the-trump-organization-because-it-doesn-t-legally-exist/ar-AA16NWMp?pc=U483&cvid=48423cb403d74fc1be9904252261ee53

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Well, then. That's that. What's next?


Does anyone foresee more sanctions for this bunch?

[Thomas Hurt]

1. I half expect him to file something saying he can't be sued cuz he is God.

[louis-t]

23. "You can't sue the most pop-lar prezeedent in history!!!"

[orangecrush]

41. This

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

64. Double great: Don't sue me. I am God! And, I don't exist!

The affirmative atheist defense. It should work.

[RockRaven]

2. Well, in October 2022 or thereabouts TFG registered a new company in Delaware called

The Trump Organization II LLC, and it's pretty weird to jump straight to the sequel when naming things.

[MissMillie]

4. I remember that, but I think it was after James filed her suit

I won't say that I'm 100% confident about that, but I will say that my recollection is that he filed the new company after she filed suit and then she immediately asked the court for someone to oversee his transactions so that he couldn't transfer his assets to the new company.

If I'm wrong about that, or I have misunderstood the situation in some way, I apologize.

[RockRaven]

9. I think that is correct, it matches my recollection too, though I am fuzzy on the details.

[kwijybo]

56. You are correct.

He, according to the AG, was trying to dodge accountability.


https://www.salon.com/2022/10/14/started-trump-organization-ii-on-same-day-as-fraud-to-dodge-accountability-ny-ag/

[cstanleytech]

11. I wonder if they can be charged with perjury? After all to name it The Trump Organization II LLC

does not make sense unless there was a prior Trump Organization thus by claiming no such thing exists means they are lying.

[housecat]

21. ya can't make this shit up

[sinkingfeeling]

3. Then how could the T***p Organization have entered into legal 'deals' and file income tax?

[aggiesal]

6. Because he's an idiot. That's why I refer to him as Pendejo45. n/t

[housecat]

22. Any relation to Pendejo 43?

[aggiesal]

32. They belong to the same Party & probably drank and snorted at the same parties. ...

I believe they're political kissing cousins.

[housecat]

55. eeeeuuuu

[Botany]

5. "Trump Organization" is branding shorthand -- not a legal entity -- so it can't be sued."

Last edited Fri Jan 27, 2023, 02:54 PM - Edit history (1)

Good luck with that argument. Look for Trump to get hit up for big legal fees for
filing a junk lawsuit. N.Y.'s A.G. James will cram this lawsuit up Trump's ass, make
it very costly for him, and have it thrown out of court in a heartbeat.




Tish James isn't coming to play.

[ZonkerHarris]

37. next he will say he's not a real person.

[Botany]

39. This stunt will cost them lots

[bucolic_frolic]

7. Periods and commas have been known to change contracts

but this is like going to court and arguing that you are a changed person from when you were arrested for whatever. Corporations are people, remember?

[Backseat Driver]

29. I think this needs to be seen as stalling a judge's categorial decision under ROL through a

defense of reasonable(?) disambiguation, which it is not--rather for the fraudulent purpose, in time (which is a term not thoroughly defined of its properties), not to ever be held accountable, sort of an inside-out Kenny Lay defense - i.e., still breathing--no crime vs. not breathing--one may have an opinion and speak it, though that will forever keep the ambiguity alive and well.

This case needs to be thrown out and adjudicated with a steep monetary penalty for wasting the court's resources.

[jeffreyi]

61. Well, y'know, there's constant cellular turnover, so technically, that would be correct.

Such a creative argument. We are a new person, every moment. Don't blame me for whatever, somebody else did it!

[SoCalDavidS]

8. You Really Gotta Admire How He Works & Takes Full Advantage Of The Legal Process & System

Can't blame him, since he's NEVER held accountable or suffers any significant consequences. So, why not pull bullshit like this?

[barbtries]

15. i don't admire him not even a little nt

[panader0]

31. what you said

[ShazzieB]

48. Same here.

He doesn't do these things because he's clever. He does them because his narcissism is so extreme that he believes he can't possibly be wrong, ever. The combination of malignant narcissism and antisocial personality disorder makes him utterly shameless and unafraid to go out on the flimsiest limbs imaginable. The fact that this often works for him doesn't make it admirable.

What bothers me the most is that there always seem to be lawyers who are willing to indulge him in filing these ridiculous suits. To me, that's the most mind-blowing part of it.

[Justice matters.]

57. That's why they fully deserve to be fined to the extreme as to they'll lose everything

they own, and go live on the street. They're so disgusting it boggles the mind.

[Scrivener7]

10. But it does create a delay.

[LiberalLovinLug]

63. Exactly. Trump is winning as long as he is free and making money from rubes

The great American courts have got him through his whole business life. Why would they fail him now?

And they're not failing him yet. Oh sure, he loses a few rulings, pays fines etc. But he's still living in luxury, living off his property wealth, golf courses, and other investments. Protected on both ends of the coin from ultra wealthy elites with fascist leanings, and dumb as bricks cult followers. As well as a whole propaganda TV news network with the largest audience in the US, as well as domination of local talk radio across the country, all of which will always back him. Or at worst, ignore his crimes, while exaggerating and lying about his "enemies" actions.

Delay delay delay delay....along with maybe finding a couple more "Trump judges" along the way, together with a weak AG, and its.....Donald Trump elected the 47th President of the united States of America!

[Scrivener7]

65. Roy Cohn taught him well.

[NotASurfer]

12. So, it's more like "Murder, Inc." or "The Gambino Family"?

Interesting that he'd try to shift to organized crime. Prison is much nicer for corporate criminals

[MissMillie]

54. I thought AG James's suit was a civil suit

which would mean there wouldn't have been jail time involved anyway, right?

[C_U_L8R]

13. So its a fraud... a fugazi.

Keep digging, Trump.

[H2O Man]

14. Recommended.

Pathetic.

[Ray Bruns]

16. If I was that judge, I would be fining some people right now.

[Canoe52]

17. Stupid is as stupid does...

"New York's lawsuit does not specifically sue anything called 'Trump Organization,'" Business Insider writes. "New York's lawsuit names Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Jr., Ivanka Trump, Eric Trump, former company CFO Allen Weisselberg and its former payroll executive Jeffrey McConney. It also names 10 entities under the Trump Organization umbrella — including 'The Trump Organization, Inc.,' a registered corporation in New York since 1981."

[Walleye]

27. Well that's the kind of lawsuit and illiterate man would file

[Marcuse]

19. Ok, so there is no corporate veil to pierce. They are personally liable.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

24. Yes. Could agree to the corporate entities being dismissed in the fraud suit...leaving only the

crime mob family to personally, jointly and severably carry the fines levied. Sounds good to me.

[Evolve Dammit]

34. That's what I was wondering

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

20. But for only $100 or more you can buy shares in it

[Midnight Writer]

25. Curses! Foiled again!

[Thomas Hurt]

26. Of course it does, odds are the Pig's business is legal business entity and is registered with NY...

as such. Of course, if it isn't wouldn't that make whatever business entity Trump does business under a sole proprietorship and he has no liability protections afforded LLCs?

Call the Pig's bluff...

[asiliveandbreathe]

28. Judge Middlebrooks sanctioning order ...included the use of a term so

appropo .."cartoonish abuse of the legal system."

https://news.yahoo.com/judge-sanctions-trump-habba-nearly-033850255.html

“Here, we are confronted with a lawsuit that should never have been filed, which was completely frivolous, both factually and legally, and which was brought in bad faith for an improper purpose,” Middlebrooks wrote. “Mr. Trump is a prolific and sophisticated litigant who is repeatedly using the courts to seek revenge on political adversaries. He is the mastermind of strategic abuse of the judicial process, and he cannot be seen as a litigant blindly following the advice of a lawyer.“

Just fork over $1 Mil you pos..

[ShazzieB]

50. "Cartoonish abuse of the legal system" -- I love this!

It's a perfect description of his legal tactics. Good one, judge!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

30. So he's going full Sovereign Citizen.

[Jarqui]

33. It is not uncommon to name a whole bunch of parties in a lawsuit

The idea is to allow the court process to help sort out who is specifically responsible for what damages.
And so you sue every party in sight to make sure those responsible don't get away.
In this particular lawsuit, a whole bunch of Trump companies and personnel are named - including "Trump Organization Inc"

In the wake of their criminal findings, Trump and family pleading the 5th hundreds and hundreds of times and Trump dropping a second lawsuit against James earlier this week,
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-drops-another-lawsuit-against-new-york-attorney-general-letitia-james/
I'm not clear what they're trying to pull here beyond extending the clock.

[ZonkerHarris]

38. The law is a weapon for the wealthy.

[FakeNoose]

35. Fine - then the Chump family is personally responsible for all the crimes of the Chump Organization

Do you really want to play it that way Donald? Either way, you lose.

[ZonkerHarris]

36. I look forward to his lawyers future sanctions.

[central scrutinizer]

43. How can he keep finding lawyers who

1. File comical motions which only piss off the judges and

2. Are unlikely to ever get paid and

3. Are candidates for sanctions and disbarment and

4. Will have to hire other lawyers to try and bail them out

Are there that many lawyers who are that stupid?

[Warpy]

40. INCOMING!

I can foresee more sanctions and in the very near future. The legal system is finally realizing the only way to get that bastard to feel any pain is to kick him in the wallet and the only way to make him stop is to make it too painful to continue.

[NullTuples]

42. OT, but he really should have bought up all the variations of TrumpOrganization.com

For instance, nearly all other top level domains (.inc, .co, .biz, us, other nations, etc) seem to be available as do linguistic variations such as TrumpOrganizations (plural).

Sloppy and careless.

[ShazzieB]

44. And oce again, I find myself wondering why ANY lawyer

would lower themself to file these junk lawsuits of Trump's. It is a complete mystery to me.

[onecaliberal]

45. Go seize his property and show piss wig what can be done.

[NullTuples]

58. They won't even get warrants to *search* all his properties for nuclear secrets.

[onecaliberal]

59. Yes garland threatened potus with a search warrant 5 minutes after they voluntarily turned over

The documents they discovered.
Another fun fact, none of the attorney’s for POTUS had to worry about signing attestations that everything was searched and turned over.

[PJMcK]

46. What are these lawyers thinking?!

They’re putting themselves on the line for a known liar and deadbeat.

They should be sanctioned.

[hardluck]

47. Welcome to answer a complaint 101

This is how its done by everyone where you cannot do a general denial. The news does terrible reporting when it comes to complaints and answers.

[onenote]

60. Yep. And the complaint was over 200 pages and 838 numbered paragraphs long.

So the fact that the response was 300 pages isn't that surprising. However, asserting 42 separate affirmative defenses is a bit out of the norm.

To be clear, not commenting on the merits (or lack thereof ) of any of the factual or legal assertions in the response.

[Justice]

49. Problem with Trump argument is it makes him individually liable

In order to have a limited liability, a person needs to form an entity/organization separate from the person - so they form a corporation, limited liability company or limited partnership. If the person holds themselves as a type of organization/entity but do not actually form an organization/entity, they are basically operating as a dba of the individual - which makes the individual individually liability. There is no corporate or LLC "shield" to protect the individual from liability.

The "Trump Organization" does not appear to be filed in NY as a dba of a legal entity. That would suggest it is a dba of the individual - Trump.

[ProfessorGAC]

62. I Was Wondering That

It seems the concept of "joint & several" applies here. So, if organization doesn't exist (it does) then the executive staff is still included.

[onenote]

67. That's not the issue.

The complaint against Trump uses the shorthand "Trump Organization" to reference a number of specifically identified legal entities:"Trump Organization LLC and the Trump Organization, Inc. (collectively with the other named entities, the "Trump Organization&quot ". Later in the complaint, James further explains that "Approximately 500 separate entities collectively do business as the Trump Organization and operate for the benefit, and under the control, of Donald J. Trump. Among the entities that comprise the Trump Organization are:
a. Defendant Trump Organization, Inc. ...

b. Defendant Trump Organization LLC, a limited liability company doing business in the State of New York with a principal place of business in New York, NY

c. Defendant DJT Holdings LLC, a Delaware limited liability company with a principal place of business in New York, NY.

d. Defendant DJT Holdings Managing Member, a Delaware limited liability company registered to do business in New York, NY.

In addition, the Trump Organization incorporates a host of entities that either own property at issue in this action or received loans at issue in this action"


Trump's lawyers are not contending that the "Trump Organization" doesn't exist as a legal entity, which is correct. It is merely a shorthand for a collection of related legal entities. Trump's argument is that by lumping all of these entities together as if they were one entity, the complaint fails to provide adequate notice as to what conduct is being attributed to particular entities.

However, that argument won't hold water with the court. Using a shorthand to refer to a group of related entities is SOP.

[oasis]

52. (1) pay up (2) shut up.

[BobTheSubgenius]

53. I swear....

...I had to read the article to be sure that the "doesn't legally exist" was referring to the Organization, and not the state of NY.

[Emile]

66. But I thought in the past his Organization was being audited.