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Zorro

(15,737 posts)
Mon Mar 27, 2023, 12:37 PM Mar 2023

DeSantis signs far-reaching school voucher expansion into Florida law

Source: Tampa Bay Times

The measure grants vouchers or education savings accounts to all children in grades K-12, regardless of family income.

Millions more Florida school children became eligible for taxpayer-funded school vouchers on Monday as Gov. Ron DeSantis signed into law a far-reaching bill that the Legislature sped to completion.

“The State of Florida is No. 1 when it comes to education freedom and education choice. And today’s bill signing cements us in that No. 1 position,” DeSantis said during a ceremony held at a Miami private school. He was surrounded by House and Senate leaders who made the measure a priority.

DeSantis noted that 1.3 million children in Florida use some sort of choice, whether vouchers, charter schools or district options such as magnets. “That empowers parents ... to find the best school for their child,” the governor said.

The bill has generated strong criticism from Floridians who contend the initiative will hurt an under-funded public education system without having many of the accountability requirements that traditional public schools must meet.

Read more: https://www.tampabay.com/news/education/2023/03/27/desantis-signs-far-reaching-school-voucher-expansion-into-florida-law/



Another major attack on public education and an avenue for the public to fund parochial schools.
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DeSantis signs far-reaching school voucher expansion into Florida law (Original Post) Zorro Mar 2023 OP
Dumbing down orangecrush Mar 2023 #1
Destruction of public education. The Unmitigated Gall Mar 2023 #2
This miscreant small d satan CANNOT be let out of the borders of Floridah.. asiliveandbreathe Mar 2023 #3
If everyone get's their vouchers and attend Charter Schools ... aggiesal Mar 2023 #4
The "problem kids" TheRealNorth Mar 2023 #6
I agree, so all we'll have is public schools that cater to ''problem kids''! n/t aggiesal Mar 2023 #15
Had to check. Igel Mar 2023 #21
I don't understand this highlighted statement ... aggiesal Mar 2023 #22
giving corporate welfare to charter schools, just more anti public school legislation. nt ImNotGod Mar 2023 #5
And they can brainwash the kids... TheRealNorth Mar 2023 #7
And if President this kind of SHIT will become Federal law Bengus81 Mar 2023 #8
Trump was motivated by greed and whatever his base wanted. He didn't actually care about Lonestarblue Mar 2023 #14
I hate this more than anything else these Cretins do. jaxexpat Mar 2023 #9
There is no way there will ever be enough Raftergirl Mar 2023 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author Raftergirl Mar 2023 #11
The cost of private school in FL will rise by the exact amount the vouchers provide ZonkerHarris Mar 2023 #12
be interesting to follow the money on this one... bahboo Mar 2023 #13
If a child is assaulted in a private school funded by the government - can the 33taw Mar 2023 #16
AZ did this. The kairos12 Mar 2023 #17
Just trying to see how much shit he and the GOP can get away with. Botany Mar 2023 #18
The Number One reason vouchers exist is for public schools to become privatized. Period. ancianita Mar 2023 #19
The 223 Catholic private schools in Florida appreciate the budget boost from Gov DeSantis NullTuples Mar 2023 #20

The Unmitigated Gall

(3,802 posts)
2. Destruction of public education.
Mon Mar 27, 2023, 12:40 PM
Mar 2023

Nothing to see here, just another day of freedumb and liburdy under repuke rule.

asiliveandbreathe

(8,203 posts)
3. This miscreant small d satan CANNOT be let out of the borders of Floridah..
Mon Mar 27, 2023, 12:44 PM
Mar 2023

They want this crap..then have at it..the rest of us will not, cannot tolerate the evil ..spread across our country..WE DO NOT WANT HIS hate, and evil, and vile programs..save it for the afterlife in hell small d satan..go back under the rock you came from..dfisgusting..

aggiesal

(8,910 posts)
4. If everyone get's their vouchers and attend Charter Schools ...
Mon Mar 27, 2023, 12:49 PM
Mar 2023

doesn't that just make the Charter Schools, Public Schools with a profit motive?

Charter Schools become meritocracies, because they can kick you out if you get bad grades and could also close if they don't make enough profit.
They'll fight against teachers unions, so watch teachers salaries plummet.

TheRealNorth

(9,478 posts)
6. The "problem kids"
Mon Mar 27, 2023, 12:53 PM
Mar 2023

Ie. the kids with disabilities or behavioral problems will still be in public schools, because those kids cut into the profits and bring down their scores.

Igel

(35,300 posts)
21. Had to check.
Mon Mar 27, 2023, 06:31 PM
Mar 2023

Charter schools in TX are public schools.

So also in FL. https://www.fldoe.org/schools/school-choice/charter-schools/charter-school-faqs.stml

This extends the same diversion of funds from traditional public schools beyond charter schools to private schools.

Note that years ago in TX somebody proposed something like this so I rummaged online and on the district's site. Looked up funding. If you take a kid out of my high school, we get less money from the state, sure. But we still get local funding. The old proposal would have taken out pretty much all the state funding--but the local funding would have remained unchanged, resulting in more money per student. (It also would reduce the need for temp buildings and expansions and per-seat software licenses and lab equipment and computer tech ... but I couldn't quantify that.) But if 160 kids left, that would mean one less teacher.

Teachers I know that don't like the current TX proposal don't primarily look at funding; they primarily consider the kids that'll be left behind, parents who can't/wouldn't spend any money on education or simply can't be bothered to deal with their kids' education.

aggiesal

(8,910 posts)
22. I don't understand this highlighted statement ...
Mon Mar 27, 2023, 06:42 PM
Mar 2023
The old proposal would have taken out pretty much all the state funding--but the local funding would have remained unchanged, resulting in more money per student.


If you lose pretty much all the state funding, how could there be more money per student, if local funding remained unchanged?
I would think that local funding would have to match the lost state funding just to get the same money per student.

TheRealNorth

(9,478 posts)
7. And they can brainwash the kids...
Mon Mar 27, 2023, 12:54 PM
Mar 2023

Without any input from an elected school board or open records laws.

Bengus81

(6,931 posts)
8. And if President this kind of SHIT will become Federal law
Mon Mar 27, 2023, 12:59 PM
Mar 2023


That asshat will make Trump look like a choir boy.

Lonestarblue

(9,971 posts)
14. Trump was motivated by greed and whatever his base wanted. He didn't actually care about
Mon Mar 27, 2023, 01:14 PM
Mar 2023

governing except for whatever Putin or Bibi or MBS wanted him to do. Otherwise, his long executive time was spent trying to grift taxpayers. DeSantis, on the other hand, is both smarter than Trump and more manipulative in how he phrases negative things to make his supporters believe they are positive.

Given how gerrymandered Texas and Florida are, I think we will see the end of public education and the rise of laws allowing tax dollars to be spent only on religious schools teaching a white evangelical curriculum or for-profit schools that exclude all those “troublesome” kids. We’ve already seen the Supreme Court support tax dollars for a Christian school in Maine that refuses to hire any LGBTQ teacher, to admit LGBTQ students, or even to admit students who have same-sex parents. This Court would have no problem with religious schools in Texas refusing to educate LGBTQ kids and possibly even those who are mentally, physically, or emotionally challenged.

jaxexpat

(6,818 posts)
9. I hate this more than anything else these Cretins do.
Mon Mar 27, 2023, 01:05 PM
Mar 2023

They not only lie about their intent and their actual intent, they literally steal from the public school system to ensure the viability (profitability) of private for-profit systems. Additionally, without comparable regulation, private schools are not mandated to be accountable to the same oversight as public schools. Public school's lack of excellence will become the next "rason de etre" for its condemnation and calls for total privatization.

The school choice he speaks of is to have kids attend unaccountable for-profit schools which may not be affordable or may not even be available in some localities versus attending public schools which are obviously targeted for intentional underfunding. Make no mistake, it is today's Jim Crow based racism packaged in "good-old-days" white supremacy sprung from the grave. He'll not be finished until he is brought down, one way or the other and by that, I mean through the election process or the court system because he's not smart enough to remain indefinitely unindictable.

Raftergirl

(1,285 posts)
10. There is no way there will ever be enough
Mon Mar 27, 2023, 01:06 PM
Mar 2023

private or charter schools for every kid in the state. So, in actuality it will “benefit” very few families. But people are stupid and will like that they have “choice” even though most will never have a choice.

Also, the vouchers will never cover the total COA - especially at the good private schools.

When my H almost took a job in Ft. Lauderdale, when my son was about 4 years old, the private school we wanted to send our child to if we moved, had a wait list of 5 years.

We also did the math and we were better off financially staying in NY (less money but much better benefits) plus a great school district.

Even with much higher property taxes in NY we were better off.

I am so glad we never moved there. It’s bad enough I have to go visit my 93 yr old mom who has lived there since my dad retired 30 years ago.

Response to Zorro (Original post)

ZonkerHarris

(24,221 posts)
12. The cost of private school in FL will rise by the exact amount the vouchers provide
Mon Mar 27, 2023, 01:08 PM
Mar 2023

just another way to destroy public education while closing off private schools to the poor

33taw

(2,439 posts)
16. If a child is assaulted in a private school funded by the government - can the
Mon Mar 27, 2023, 01:23 PM
Mar 2023

government be sued?

Botany

(70,489 posts)
18. Just trying to see how much shit he and the GOP can get away with.
Mon Mar 27, 2023, 01:38 PM
Mar 2023

Be it killing public education, controlling women's bodies, shooting wolf cubs in the dens,
culture war made up issues, actively spreading the C-19 virus, treating human beings as
objects to be moved around for fun, pushing Christo Fascist religion and schooling, banning
books*, CRT shit, anti LGBT hate laws, and covering their tracks by using the word "woke."

* such as this one:

ancianita

(36,023 posts)
19. The Number One reason vouchers exist is for public schools to become privatized. Period.
Mon Mar 27, 2023, 01:48 PM
Mar 2023

Public schools have been starved for funds for three generations. Vouchers have been "sold" as the racist dogwhistle alternative for anti-integration/anti-immigration racists. Vouchers fit into the four-step privatization formula:

1. Defund
2. Deform (disguised as Reform)
3. Stigmatize
4. Privatize


Objectively, vouchers undermine the powerhouse Return On Investment (ROI = $7:$1) in America's public schools. There is no other industry on Earth that provides that ROI level.

That ROI has produced our presidents, astronauts, scientists, mathematicians, architects, skilled workers, engineers, artists, film makers, musicians, computer technologists and university leaders. No other industry has improved America like public education.


States are the providers of public schools. The U.S. Constitution never made education a fundamental right. And so providing education was up to the states. If it weren't for the Reconstruction Period, southern states would never have instituted public schools; all they had were private schools.

And so here we are with the "all politics is yokel" crowd, deciding that their provincial outlook will decide what future generations learn.

I've argued for the proper funding of public schools on social media for years. I'll say it again:

1. Teachers' working conditions ARE students' learning conditions.
Pensions are dangled before teachers to "compensate" for lower salaries in contract after contract.
Even then, teaching professionals still PAY into their pensions.

2. If Americans want a good future, don't diss your children's EDUCATION conditions OR their teachers.
Neither one has created the problems of education funding, even as they suffer from it -- every generation.
Don’t use your kids’ teachers as your scapegoats when you know who’s to blame for what they and your kids endure.

Destabilize teachers' standing as committed professionals for a community, and you destabilize your children's learning conditions.

3A. No study in the last century has yet to disprove studies showing that the top two predictors of student achievement are
First -- socioeconomic status of students’ parents;
Second -- the Teacher.
3B. No studies in the last century have disproven Time-On-Task studies that correlate with lower class size.


4. You want good teachers, but you don't want to have to pay? Or lower their class sizes? Or offer them tenure?
Did the rich -- or homeschoolers -- tell you that you could get something for nothing?

Did you forget the American work ethic that claims that the highest achievements come with focused, systematic study, effort and yes, sometimes a bit of sacrifice by the family?

Did the rich reveal to you that they don't consider any amount too much to spend on THEIR kids? That THEY pay their teachers top dollar? That they LUV tenure?

Now you know why their schools are so expensive. The rich believe You. Get. What. You. Pay. For.

Have the rich ever told the public that no amount of money is too much for their children's private educations?
No? Know why they don't tell you? They don't want competition for the mediocre snowflakes they have -- the Trumps, Mercers, Thiels, DeVoses, or other rich doofuses of the world.

5. Human development is THE single greatest asset to any country. All of America's NATO & other Western allies, South Korea and Japan know this. Their schools show it.

6. The U.S. once had the arts, vocational training, civics, home economics, full range of gymnastics and sports, computer labs and after school arts and sciences projects in our schools.

Why? Because our parents and rich leaders had the matching opinion that American future generations were worth it!

When did they part ways? That’s a history lesson. Read Jonathan Kozol’s “Shame of The Nation” for the full story.


7. . But some Americans DO still have that full-on education system.
Know who they are?
America’s private preparatory schools!
The kids of the rich!
https://www.niche.com/k12/search/best-private-high-schools/

For decades, the rich have lied to Americans about the worth of public education. They scapegoat the rest of the country's schools and teachers now.

8. In policy, investment and public discourse, act as if you care about this country's greatest asset -- the American people -- the way your communities' teaching professionals do.

Americans need to knock off their groomed distrust and vastly ignorant hate of what they're told is the bureaucracy of public schools.

Tenured teaching professionals -- like the seniority status of legal and medical professions that do not ROI at $7:$1 -- are America's best investment.

Yet, Republicans apply twisted and distorted market values to the last standing Jeffersonian, democratizing institution of human development for this country. Republicans value babysitters more than teaching professionals, which is why babysitters make more than teachers.

When Americans don't think things through for the benefit of their kids, just mostly themselves and the added babysitting convenience, Americans do not support those dedicated to human development, this country's most valuable asset.

But the rich do. The rich don't tell.

And DeSantis, patron saint of pandering to the worst among us, is right here to help his rich donors.

The problem with vouchers is that states never provide vouchers at the equivalent of per-pupil-per-year state expenditures.

Besides the general lack of results, critics of school vouchers argue that vouchers will lead to segregation. Empirical studies show that there is some evidence that school vouchers can lead to racial or income segregation.[26] However research on this topic is inconclusive, as there is also valid research that shows under certain circumstances, income and racial segregation can be reduced indirectly by increasing school choice.[27]

Additionally, since school vouchers are funded by the government, the implementation could cause the funds for public schools to be reduced. Private-school vouchers affect government budgets through two channels: additional direct voucher expenditures, and public school cost savings from lower enrollments.[28] Voucher programs would be paid for by the government's education budget, which would be subtracted from the public school's budget. This might affect the public school system by giving them less to spend and use for their student's education.[28]

A 2018 study by Abdulkadiroğlu et al. found that disadvantaged students who won a lottery (the Louisiana Scholarship Program) to get vouchers to attend private schools had worse education outcomes than disadvantaged students who did not win vouchers: "LSP participation lowers math scores by 0.4 standard deviations and also reduces achievement in reading, science, and social studies. These effects may be due in part to selection of low-quality private schools into the program".[29]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_voucher

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
20. The 223 Catholic private schools in Florida appreciate the budget boost from Gov DeSantis
Mon Mar 27, 2023, 06:02 PM
Mar 2023

But this paragraph takes the cake for irresponsible lawmaking:

"The Senate approved HB1 on Friday along party lines, replacing its own version of the measure with the House language. While the two chambers agreed on the policy of granting vouchers or education savings accounts to all K-12 school-aged children regardless of family income, they have yet to agree on how much the expanded program will cost or how to pay for it."


House Speaker Paul Renner (also Catholic), who championed the legislation, said the goal goes beyond offering children and families a customized education.

“We don’t want your child to go to a school where their values are mocked,” Renner said, noting the law’s inclusion of religious schools in the mix of those that can accept vouchers.
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