Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

[wackadoo wabbit]

Source: thedebrief.org

A former intelligence official turned whistleblower has given Congress and the Intelligence Community Inspector General extensive classified information about deeply covert programs that he says possess retrieved intact and partially intact craft of non-human origin. . . .

Other intelligence officials, both active and retired, with knowledge of these programs through their work in various agencies, have independently provided similar, corroborating information, both on and off the record.

The whistleblower, David Charles Grusch, 36, a decorated former combat officer in Afghanistan, is a veteran of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO). He served as the reconnaissance office’s representative to the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force from 2019-2021. From late 2021 to July 2022, he was the NGA’s co-lead for UAP analysis and its representative to the task force. . . .

Grusch said the recoveries of partial fragments through and up to intact vehicles have been made for decades through the present day by the government, its allies, and defense contractors. Analysis has determined that the objects retrieved are “of exotic origin (non-human intelligence, whether extraterrestrial or unknown origin) based on the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures,” he said.




Read more: https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

---

This guy's credentials are impeccable and, according to Karl E. Nell, a recently retired Army Colonel and current aerospace executive who was the Army’s liaison for the UAP Task Force from 2021 to 2022, Grusch is "beyond reproach."

It looks as if this is a real thing.

[FSogol]

1. Username checks out.

[intrepidity]

2. I wonder if future AI-developed craft will be considered

as of non-human origin?

[NewHendoLib]

3. So, so cool. Let organized religions chew on that.

[RussBLib]

10. they will expand their theology to include extraterrestrials

...after all, god created everything, right? blah blah

They will easily expand their theology to include anything anywhere.

But some people will likely freak out.

[NewHendoLib]

38. But I thought it's all written in the bible? No editing allowed!

[Effete Snob]

44. Verbal Rorschach

Are you joking? There are ETs all over the bible. Angels, demons, things flying around in the sky, even Jesus:


https://www.bible.com/bible/114/JHN.14.2-6.NKJV

In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.


-----

https://www.bible.com/bible/111/EZK.1.NIV

4I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north—an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal, 5and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance their form was human, 6but each of them had four faces and four wings. 7Their legs were straight; their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze. 8Under their wings on their four sides they had human hands. All four of them had faces and wings, 9and the wings of one touched the wings of another. Each one went straight ahead; they did not turn as they moved.

[C Moon]

122. I'm not a religious person, but I admire your kind reaction.

[KPN]

189. Of course, humans who were created in God's image will

have and enjoy dominion over all in their minds anyway, no?

[oldsoftie]

45. Why would it diminish religion?

The Bible says "...created the heavens & the earth"
Pretty much covers everything & provides cover as well

[Sky Jewels]

87. The Bible portrays the savior of the universe as a male member of

one relatively recent species of primates—humans.

We are on one little planet amongst billions of galaxies. The billions of years that came before Jesus are not mentioned in the Bible, nor are the millions of other planets that could harbor advanced life.

Gosh, it’s almost as if the Bible is a collection of myopic and convoluted mythologies and tall tales made up by people from primitive societies who didn’t know jack shit about the universe and who assumed Earth and humans of the last few thousand years were the only important things within these vast cosmos.

Why any modern human still believes in this silly, patriarchal BS is beyond me.

[oldsoftie]

98. Of curse 'before Jesus' was mentioned. People existed before he was born

The Old testament was before Jesus. But then again,"time" is never defined in the Bible as far as I know either. But if GOD created the heavens & the earth why couldn't other civilizations have been created as well? Religious people dont like to think about that, no, but nothing says it DIDNT happen either.
And to REALLY throw a wrench into their train of thought, what if Jesus was actually an alien? It could explain the miracles, the disappearance, the "virgin birth", etc. But boy oh boy, dont bring THAT up!

[Effete Snob]

121. Not the universe, just humans

If the aliens have not committed the original sin, they don’t need a Jesus.

[Haggard Celine]

181. They probably said, "fuck this place."

My Calvinist family members say that humans have a "fallen nature," and we'll always have crime and war and all these evil things we deal with. I think it's possible that these aliens who left their craft here haven't been back because they're on a planet that hasn't been close to us for a long time. But this is all bullshitting. Can't wait to find out more!

[Beachnutt]

218. I have two calvanist sisters

they think they're chosen by God.

[Haggard Celine]

219. They do. Predestination.

God made sheep and he made goats. You can be an awful person, but if God chose you, that's up to him. God doesn't make excuses for what he does. We can't sit in judgement of God. We're mere mortals, after all. It's pretty harsh.

[Farmer-Rick]

159. Yup, but you're thinking logically

Logic is not a positive trait among religious people or their gods.

[Effete Snob]

163. Scientologist certainly believe in UFO aliens

The notion that organized religion rejects the notion of extraterrestrial aliens is kind of silly, since most organized religions are BASED on the existence of extraterrestrial aliens.

That might tell you something about organized religions AND extraterrestrial aliens. They've been bosom buddies for thousands of years.

[intrepidity]

217. "The Gods of Eden" by William Bramley was interesting

Read it decades ago, but there were some compelling arguments about why mankind is so utterly destructive and warlike.

"The Gods of Eden" is a book by William Bramley that examines our world's hidden history and the causes of today's tragic circumstance. The book starts in ancient times and gradually moves forward, giving us information and analysis that we never would have expected. Bramley examines ancient texts and reviews the UFO phenomenon as it presented itself in pre-history. The Deities, also known as the Pagan Gods, Heretic Gods, Old Gods, or just simply Gods, are a race of immortal, supernatural entities who hold control over the forces of nature and the universe, possessing immense powers that only a handful of non-celestial races could compete against. They came to Earth millions of years ago to spread the poison of hate, war, and catastrophe.

[FakeNoose]

72. It's probably the spaceship Jesus used to get to heaven

[doc03]

4. The Milky Way galaxy has 100 to 400 billion stars

and at least one planet per star. No way we are the only one with intelligent life. Are they able to travel here?

[sdfernando]

9. "They weren't interested in Earth"

"Too primative"

[keithbvadu2]

64. 2 space aliens looking down on earth.

2 space aliens looking down on earth.
I see the dominant life form has developed space weapons.
Does this mean they are an emerging intelligence?
I don't think so. They have them aimed at themselves.

[central scrutinizer]

114. Aliens looking down

Would conclude that dogs are the rulers and humans are their servants scurrying around cleaning up their shit.

[dchill]

125. They would have already been informed of this by the cats.

[maxsolomon]

11. Likely it takes hundreds of years.

It would make more sense to send 1-way unmanned probes.

[xabriel]

20. Similarly, has any planet with intelligent life been visited by members of other planets?

There are 400 million hoaxes too.
I believe there is intelligent life out there somewhere. But whether it has a lender in our planet has to be proven.

[Effete Snob]

48. How long does intelligent life last on any one planet?

Earth has been around for 4.5 billion years.

Humans have only been around for 50-60 thousand years.

Tell me how long you think humans are going to last.

Because if aliens have visited earth, then there is only about a .0013% chance they showed up while we were here.

People thought earth was the center of the universe, and the center of the solar system, and that humans are the most important things in it.

The belief that aliens have visited and taken an interest in us is the exact same sort of egotistical bullshit that vastly overestimates the importance of earth and humans in the larger scale of actual reality.

[SouthernDem4ever]

77. "Humans have only been around for 50-60 thousand years"

And it only took the last 200 years for us to completely destroy the planet's eco-system.

[Effete Snob]

120. Yep

So, we’re probably getting to our “best before” date anyway.

[Jazz Jon]

188. Get out of the house more

Maybe they visit Earth because there's life here. Makes a planet sort of interesting. No?

[Effete Snob]

200. It never made me stop in Indiana

Maybe earth is the only planet with ghosts. They might find that to be really cool.

Why do you believe it is not possible for them to be future humans visiting in their time machines?

[Jazz Jon]

204. Data and Science

The overwhelming evidence (witnesses) of visitation and what we know about the cosmos suggests visitation highly probable. Science so far suggests time travel mechanisms are far less probable.... and less logical.

[muriel_volestrangler]

224. It would be more likely to be aliens travelling in space, than humans travelling in time and space

If travelling back in time, without someone at the earlier moment and place setting up a "base", is possible (there are problems with cause and effect otherwise), then to visit Earth would also involve travelling in interstellar space - because the solar system moves through space. So it's a lot simpler to posit beings who can do interstellar travel, than beings who can do that and also travel backwards in time. And there are a lot more planets for aliens to come from than the single one we come from.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

228. I hate it when they leave wrinkles in the blanket

Is there any difference between space and time?

[muriel_volestrangler]

229. Yes - we can travel in any direction in space, but not in time (nt)

[Hermit-The-Prog]

230. We're always travelling in time

We just haven't figured out how to fold things to choose our direction.

Spooky entanglement may be involved, too.

[muriel_volestrangler]

232. As I said, we can't travel in any direction in time.

"How to fold things" is meaningless.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

233. Hold still a minute; gotta bleed them bad humours out of you.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

67. It's not just whether they'd be able to travel here

It's also whether their time frame of advanced existence coincides with the past 100 or so years of human existence.

IOW, about 100 years divided by roughly 13,000,000,000, aka our last 100 years is about 1/130,000,000 of the years since the Milky Way existed.

Then think about how far away the other planet that's EVER had intelligent life is likely to have to be, mathematically, for our timelines to collide like this. such that visitation would be even conceivably possible.

And don't forget to include 'travel time'.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

111. My Son The Astronomer is doing exoplanet research.

Pretty much every single star we look at has planets. However, most of them are not in the Goldilocks zone, where life might be possible. Plus, some 70% of stars in our galaxy are red dwarfs. Very, very, very different from our sun. If a planet around a red dwarf is conducive to life, what might that life be like? Hmmmm?

Here's something else to think about. Our planet has a very large moon, which clearly has been important to life on this planet. It gave us tides, also important. Some other small planet around a red dwarf star, even in that star's Goldilocks zone, even if it has a moon, even if lots of other things are in line to start life, do you understand how very long it took life to get established on this planet?

Plus, our planetary system seems quite different from any other planetary system we've found so far. Our inner rocky planets, our outer gas giants. A lot of other planetary systems have been found, but none are remotely like ours. Hmmmm.

[doc03]

148. We can see stars 1000 light years from earth. How do we know if any of them

still exist today.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

167. Astronomers have figured out how long various kinds of stars last.

Smaller, cooler ones, like red dwarfs last far longer than our sun will.

[Igel]

223. Yeah, but getting out of their gravity wells can be a problem. n/t

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

226. ? Red dwarfs don't have much of a gravity well.

Black holes, on the other hand, will kill you if you get in their gravity well.

[Joinfortmill]

164. Fascinating stuff

[AZ8theist]

139. That's just our galaxy.

There are literally TRILLIONS more galaxies out there......

The number of stars and planets in the observable universe is incomprehensible.

[Effete Snob]

141. The volume of empty space is far greater and more incomprehensible

[doc03]

149. Could we be just like an atom, a part of some larger object or

living thing.

[Effete Snob]

150. We could be a booger in God's nose

Last edited Tue Jun 6, 2023, 11:04 AM - Edit history (1)

But the much more pressing issue is how to feed ourselves, avoid poisoning or killing ourselves, and maybe doing something about the massive number of people dying from starvation every day about whom we don't obsess as much as we do over nonsense like something more intelligent coming to our rescue because we have basically given up on any sensible management of our own species.

There are all kinds of unknowns in the universe. But it is pretty reliable that 25,000 humans are going to starve to death today, and we're going to do fuck all about it, despite our affirmative and correct understanding of the problem and its solutions.

[AZ8theist]

193. Only if you're high on weed....

[Botany]

5. So that is where Gym Jordan came from?

He always had the E.T. "grey look" about him.

[PortTack]

26. That's seriously insulting to E.T!

[calimary]

78. LOL!!!

Poor E.T.

[rubbersole]

28. Probably why the aliens 👽 hauled ass as fast as they could...

[msongs]

6. how is this website press release LBN? nt

[keopeli]

30. The source is not well known. The postulations are not reviewed by peers. Not LBN to my eyes.

It's a crazy story! I live in New Mexico. The Alien Marketing is off the charts!

I have known ambassadors and diplomats with both military and civilian credentials who were tasked with researching the evidence and science that are the basis for these claims. They all swear there is not a shred of evidence to even suspect that such an idea is true. Unless some alien species chose the very recent past to come by for a visit, I'm going to stick to my first-hand information.

Still, ALIENS makes a whole lot of money for small towns across our state. I don't think we'll ever get others to stop pointing at the sky and saying, "what the heck is that?!"

[JohnSJ]

43. +++

[Progressive dog]

97. I agree

It is an extremely crazy story. Area 51 here they come again.

[yardwork]

191. It's embarrassing to DU that this is on LBN, imo

It would be bad enough in GD.

[drray23]

7. so one of the authors involved is Garry P. Nolan

It appears this guy is a genetician an emeritus professor from Stanford School of Medicine.
In 2012 he started getting involved in the field of alien research.


From his wikipedia:

Nolan appeared on Fox News' Tucker Carlson Tonight[32] show on August 1st 2022, during which he discussed his UAP related research in an hour long interview.

Which is surprising. I would not characterize Tucker Carlson Tonight as the venue scientists would go to discuss legit research.
In short, it would be interesting to comb the whole article and see what these people's background are. That does not strike me as very legit.

[Effete Snob]

19. I guarantee you'll find a retired US Navy admiral who says its all true

I once attended an investor pitch on behalf of someone who wanted me to evaluate the technology being promoted. After, I told him, "It's a perpetual free energy scam" and he said, "Oh, did it come with an endorsement from a Navy admiral?" and I was like, "How did you know?"

You know who has great credentials?

How about a former US federal prosecutor for the Southern District of New York, who went on to become the mayor of New York City? Eh?

How about a leading pediatric brain surgeon? Must be a real smart guy, no?

There are highly qualified people with impeccable credentials who are or become complete lunatics.

[oldsoftie]

47. Well dont leave us hanging; who was the admiral?

[Effete Snob]

50. That's the thing

When you see one of these nutty-ass stories, there's always a Navy admiral endorsing it as true.

It's great to have a job where you can retire at a relatively young age, get a decent government check, and go quietly nuts in your home since you no longer attract the automatic respect and attention of thousands of people who do what you tell them to do.

Go find a crazy energy scheme, and I'll show you a Navy admiral.

[oldsoftie]

54. "go quietly nuts". HA!! You could say the same about some doctors.

Military officers, doctors, politicians & the like are all used to having a lot of attention paid to them. When it stops or they feel slighted, they can start to do or say some wacky things to get that spotlight back!

[Effete Snob]

57. Yep

Imagine being responsible for thousands of lives on a nuclear-reactor powered ship one day, and then a couple of weeks later your biggest job is organizing your sock drawer.

But, then you find out that people will write you checks to put your name on things, so that they can say "Our Board of Directors includes Admiral Quackenbrains!"

[oldsoftie]

59. Dr Robert Malone comes to mind

[Effete Snob]

61. William Shockley

Nobel prize winning physicist and co-inventor of the transistor. Developed a lot of our fundamental understanding of electronic properties of solid materials.

Also, batshit crazy white supremacist.

Linus Pauling - beyond any measure of brilliance as a chemist and physicist. Utter dumbass on nutrition and eugenics. Promoted megadoses of Vitamin C as the cure/preventative for cancer. Died of (checks notes) cancer.

[yardwork]

154. There was literally an X-Files episode about this.

[bucolic_frolic]

8. Correct. "as if"

Nothing expands funding like a bird in the hand. And they're not allowed to tell you what, how, when, where, or have any independent investigations.

[ToxMarz]

12. And they haven't taken over the planet

That's reassuring.

Or have they? !

[Beaverhausen]

63. They probably don't want anything to do with us

We are too warlike, too ignorant to protect our planet and ourselves...

Just my opinion.

[zuul]

13. This guy is saying it really WAS the aliens . . .

[calimary]

88. Must be aliens. Who else does his hair?

[William Seger]

14. I am absolutely, 100% ready to believe this

... as soon as I see the evidence for myself. But not until then.

[zuul]

17. "We are ready to believe you!"

[hunter]

15. All the space aliens I know tell me they don't need spaceships.

The simply appear and disappear like "Q" on Star Trek.

It's rather unnerving.

[ProfessorGAC]

41. I've Met Others

They use a gateway like the Ionian system in Contagion. (STNG Season 2)
So, there are 2 kinds of visitors here.
I'm shocked you've run into one type!

[Effete Snob]

55. People have limited imaginations, so they come up with spaceships

I agree with you.

Really ADVANCED interplanetary beings don't need spaceships.

We imagine them needing spaceships because of a human-centric notion that going somewhere requires a technological vehicle.

Humans with notions of "spaceships" are operating at too low a level of thinking to break outside of that close-minded rut and realize that spaceships are not necessary.

Anyone with a sufficiently open mind realizes that the idea of spaceships is an artificial human-imposed limitations on space aliens.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

73. Extrapolating along those lines, I guess we must allow for the possibility of 'God' then too

Cause that's basically your argument here

[Effete Snob]

118. Just one?

I used to be close minded and didn’t believe in God.

Now, I’m open minded and I believe in all the gods!

[xabriel]

16. Has anyone here ever heard of the source "thedebrief.org"?

Should I feel guilty that I never heard of it in my life?

[dbonds]

22. I had not heard of it, so I asked Bard

Here is bard's response:
The credibility of the website thedebrief.org is generally considered to be high. The website was founded in 2016 by Micah Hanks, Tim McMillan, and MJ Banias, all of whom have experience in journalism and the military. The website's mission is to "explore and report on developments in science, defense and intelligence, frontier technology, and knowledge that exists on the periphery of human understanding." The Debrief has been praised for its in-depth reporting on a variety of topics, including UFOs, UAPs, and other unexplained phenomena. The website has also been criticized for its willingness to report on stories that some consider to be fringe or even implausible. However, The Debrief has always been upfront about its editorial stance, and it has never claimed to be a traditional news outlet. Ultimately, the credibility of The Debrief is up to the individual reader to decide. However, the website has a solid track record of reporting on complex and controversial topics in a fair and balanced manner.

Here are some of the factors that contribute to the credibility of The Debrief:

The website's founders have a wealth of experience in journalism and the military.
The website's reporting is in-depth and well-researched.
The website is transparent about its editorial stance.
The website has a solid track record of reporting on complex and controversial topics in a fair and balanced manner.
Here are some of the criticisms that have been leveled against The Debrief:

The website has been accused of reporting on stories that are fringe or even implausible.
The website has been accused of being sensationalistic.
The website has been accused of being biased in favor of certain viewpoints.
Despite these criticisms, The Debrief remains a respected source of information on a variety of topics. The website's commitment to in-depth reporting and its willingness to tackle complex and controversial issues have earned it a loyal following among readers who are looking for a more nuanced and comprehensive view of the world.

[muriel_volestrangler]

68. I wonder, if you asked thedebrief.org about the credibility of Bard, what would they say?

And would that be better evidence of thedebrief.org's credibility than asking Bard anything?

[dbonds]

156. You need to respect our new AI overlords :-)

Seriously though, Bard is googles AI. It has more current info than chatGPT. It also cited sources that can be checked.

Its report seemed in the middle, respectable on some issues, sensationalist and biased on others. I don't have a dog in that fight.

And no, I don't believe the OP was alien tech.

[Effete Snob]

24. How could you have missed this Pulitzer-worthy reportage?

It is one of the only places to be one of the few well-informed persons in the know on the top stories of our time, like:

Could Advanced Civilizations Weaponize Black Holes?

Will Your Home Be Hit by a Meteorite?

Odd Green Light Filmed Over Japan Came from Space, but NASA Satellite Data Reveals It Was No Meteor

What always cracks me up are the folks who say "Don't believe everything you hear from the government" consistently use longtime government employment as an indicator of credibility.

[msfiddlestix]

165. Me too

Neighbors who listen to Coast to Coast, don't believe in anything the govt says, but hangs on every word from a former intelligence officer, naval commander etc.

What always cracks me up are the folks who say "Don't believe everything you hear from the government" consistently use longtime government employment as an indicator of credibility.

[Effete Snob]

166. Well, you see...

...you know these people are credible because they spent an entire career lying to you!

[msfiddlestix]

170. LOL. Great point!

[cloudbase]

18. Well, cows aren't human.

[louis-t]

21. It's too bad the ship crashed.

I hear they were coming to take tfg back.

[Sedona]

23. You fools!

[maxsolomon]

37. one of my favorite cartoons of this misbegotten era.

if only it had been quashed early...

[area51]

92. I love that cartoon.

[hatrack]

25. I'll believe it when physical evidence of technology beyond our understanding is produced . . .

. . . . and handed over to scientific institutes and labs throughout the world for study and confirmation. Unmistakable direct evidence of alien intelligence a la "Contact" would also probably do the trick.

Until such time, nope.

[Effete Snob]

32. That happens all of the time

High temperature superconductors were discovered and manufactured before they were understood.

https://www.quantamagazine.org/high-temperature-superconductivity-understood-at-last-20220921/


High-Temperature Superconductivity Understood at Last

A new atomic-scale experiment all but settles the origin of the strong form of superconductivity seen in cuprate crystals, confirming a 35-year-old theory.

Lots of materials "beyond our understanding" have been and continue to be produced by humans.

If the folks who stumbled upon high temperature superconductors said "we found it at a UFO crash site" then it would have definitely satisfied your threshold, since nobody was sure how they worked when they were first made.

If you would have told Albert Hoffman he'd come up with a mind altering substance effective at does as low as 25 microgram, he'd have told you to get lost.

Sometimes, yes, people make things well ahead of the understanding of the principles by which they operate.

[hatrack]

34. Never mind - missed your earlier post.

.

[wnylib]

81. I'm with you on this. Not a very very credible claim IMO.

[Jazz Jon]

197. It has been.

The material evidence exists, but those who have it don't want to distribute it. Sort of a selfish thing. For four to five decades now, civilians, military people and govt officials from many countries have been telling us about what they have seen. About the evidence, about live witnesses.... all the stuff you are asking for. It's already here and has been for a long time

I'd imagine If an alien were standng in front of you. You would think it was a hoax.

Are there hoaxes? Yes indeed. A great many perpetrated by jokers, fame seekers, and also govt officials trying to make anybody who starts to take extra terrestrial life seriously look like an idiot. Analyze the data logically, not merely thru cultural sun glasses.

[hatrack]

216. Welcome to ignore. I don't need woo from you or anyone else on this site.

.

[TurboDem]

27. Hey! Look over there! They've recovered bits and pieces of an alien space ship!

I swear it's true! By the way, our lord and savior donald trump isn't about to be indicted at all. Alien space ship stuff is what you really need to focus on. Keep your eyes on this story and only this story!

[GreenWave]

29. If'n and this is a big If'n these are crashed UFO vehicles.

1. USA did not have the ability to do it.
2. Russia bluffing and 57,000,000 dead to bury from WWII didn't do it.
3. Stupidity by space aliens is even more ludicrous.

But something else...
Something, Are you trying to create a mystery?
Tune in late Fall!

[Kablooie]

31. Ok, so say this guy's story is true...

and government task forces have discovered items that, somehow, were known by many people who, loyally, kept the secret for decades, ... there is still the question of who analyzed the items and determined they were of extraterrestrial origin? What were their qualifications and abilities?

I strongly suspect that if actual scientific analysis were done, assuming the objects exist, that other rational explanations would be forthcoming.

Also:
If a space ship was sent from the nearest star system to the earth at 1,000,000 km/hr, it would take over 3,000 years to get here.
Radio signals, that might alert another civilization of our existence, have only been sent out for around a century.

Given these time frames it's extremely unlikely that another civilization has already managed to send vehicles to earth.

[Effete Snob]

33. See my note above

"We found an artifact we do not understand" is different from "we found an artifact produced by aliens".

[oldsoftie]

51. I guess its possible that modes of transport exist that we know nothing about.

Einstein had a theory on wormholes. What if they existed? We know a lot of stuff, but there' also a lot of stuff we DONT know!

[Kablooie]

96. Including what those things are!

[oldsoftie]

99. Not really. As silly as he sounded, Rumsfeld WAS right.

Its an arrogance of us humans to think that we know EVERYTHING that hasn't been found/invented/computed yet

[Effete Snob]

145. Of course we don't know everything

I don't know what the next spin of the roulette wheel will be, but I can tell you that over time what the results of a large number of spins will be. I can also tell you that the result will not and cannot be higher than 36 (in the US).

Unfortunately, there is a lot which we do know, and in one lifetime, no person is capable of obtaining mastery over everything we already know. Despite that fact, there are a lot of people who don't know much, but who use the "we don't know everything" line as some kind of equalizer in order to make up for ignorance of things that we really do know.

This is not a harmless affectation either, but it does material harm to gullible people who get taken in by all sorts of scams - particularly in the area of treatment of diseases where "we don't know everything" is used as a proxy for "why not believe anything" with tragic results to people's health and wealth.

Scientology makes a fooking fortune out of the most pathetically stupid UFO tale which otherwise normal, rational people get suckered into believing.

[oldsoftie]

155. Scientology, like Trumpism, is a cult.

I think they get over to the level they do because people think they'll get to associate with the celebrities who belong.

I'm of the mind that there are so many VERY smart people out there that new exciting things WILL be developed constantly as we move forward.

[Effete Snob]

161. Based on UFO's

I sometimes wonder, given the wealth and influence of Scientology, what things they attempt to promote in popular media. Presumably, their main "political" thing would be religious liberty, to the extent they can maintain their tax exemption.

But, hey, if the folks in this thread who think "organized religion" has some kind of problem with UFO's, have I got a religion for them....

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

171. L Ron Hubbard figured out he could make a lot more money

running a religion than he could writing science fiction. So he started a religion. All of the other s-f writers then knew exactly what he was doing, and were quite disgusted by it.

[Effete Snob]

173. Mormons too

The Mormon universe works a lot like Amway. Eventually, you get your own planet and your own downline.

Unsurprisingly, network marketing is really popular in Utah.

If the aliens show up, and turn out to be Mormons, I am going to laugh my ass off at the "wait until the religious people find out" crowd.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

80. True, but you missed an important piece: just because the USA has pretty strict security mechanisms

A whole lot of the rest of the world ... most definitely does not.

[Effete Snob]

146. That's the really tragic part for the UFO aliens

They have conquered the vast reaches of time, space and energy in order to flit about the galaxy on sightseeing tours, like the Milky Way was a gigantic Blue Ridge Parkway.

But imagine finding an occupied planet, dropping in for a visit, and then having the US government hide your existence from everyone else on the planet.

Yes, they might have immense intelligence and superior technology, but they cannot defeat a determined government bureaucracy!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

162. Radio signals would probably not be able to be listened to

even as nearby as the Moon. Keep in mind, our planet rotates, and no matter where you might be, any particular signal would last a very few minutes until it's no longer sending in your direction. Plus, radio and TV signals are not sent straight up, but horizontally. If any actually do escape Earth, the would essentially be useless. Plus, you'd have to have equipment that would decode or play back the signals exactly as our radios and TVs do. How likely is that?

Plus, we've been looking for alien radio signals for at least fifty years, and so far have found nothing.

[BootinUp]

35. If you clap it will reassemble itself

And return home.

[Eko]

36. For so many reasons just no.

[Mosby]

39. Obvious bs

So did they recover the faster than light warp drives?

[tinrobot]

40. I mean, some Republicans are of "Non-human origin"

But seriously, this is intriguing, but very, very vague.

I'd love for it to be true. But until the "materials" are released for a more public examination and peer review, let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[3Hotdogs]

42. So these Klingons come from 3 1/2 galaxies away from us.... Make it all the way here, and

then they crash the thing?

Also, if they did crash a few of 'em, why did they crash only in the desert where nobody could find 'em.?

Shouldn't one or two of 'em have crashed on Main Street somewhere? Or 47nd and 3rd Avenue?

[taxi]

49. even Boebert has enough brains to find a camera

[Effete Snob]

52. They missed that left turn at Albuquerque

It's a tough one that comes up a lot faster than you expect.

It's not at all like the interplanetary by-pass at Rigel Seven in the Alpha Quadrant, and that one is pretty tricky if it's your first time driving.

[Karma13612]

220. 🤣👍

[marble falls]

102. And then they had to thumb their way back. At least I think those were their thumbs.

[chowder66]

53. I say bullshit.

Even the most credentialed people can be idiots if it suits their beliefs. Look at the Ivy League Republicans.

[Ford_Prefect]

56. If there are intelligent aliens elsewhere why would they bother with our planet?

We're not all that special, other than the ones caught up in magical thinking who are very special indeed.

[Effete Snob]

58. Because humans are the center of the universe

Don't you know that?

There are people who can't deal with the fact that we are alone on a tiny piece of nothing floating nowhere important, so they have to believe that humans occupy a place of importance to gods, angels, aliens, or something else "from beyond here".

It's just another form of religious belief, and people will defend it with just as much nastiness.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

76. OTOH we might actually be the only life form this advanced that's lived in the last 500M years

Last edited Tue Jun 6, 2023, 11:21 AM - Edit history (1)

Within a radius of many trillions of miles.

So that'd make us (and even more so, our planet, and the animal life we evolved from) pretty fucking special ... even if nobody ELSE ever noticed us

Just sayin'.

[Effete Snob]

119. I've felt that way for a long time

About me, I mean. Not everyone else.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

135. This is why we always get on so well (nt)

[Joinfortmill]

169. Yup.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

172. Yes. My Son The Astronomer tells me that

the consensus in the world of astronomy is that we may very well be the first intelligent, technological species in our galaxy.

And forget about other galaxies. They are so far away that travel between galaxies simply won't be possible. Plus, at least 90% of all the galaxies we can see are already so far away that we couldn't possibly reach them, even if we did have FTL (faster than light) technology.

[roamer65]

105. Maybe we still have some "attributes" that they have lost to evolution.

I think there is a biological reason, or multiple ones for them being here.

[PurgedVoter]

60. From the OP, replies, wikis and article, it all turns into confirmation bias.

Any view you walk into this conversation with, you can walk away happy with having been right all along. Seen this too many times, met and been close to some of it. I got to know Ray Stanford when I was nine.

A brilliant and insightful mind and on subjects that were more mundane but took 40 years before the truth was revealed, he turned out correct. He is one of the reasons I haven't rejected this stuff outright. The truth is out there, probably way out there, but my confirmation bias says wait for solid proof. It would not surprise me if it was all fake to make other nations think we had an edge. It wouldn't surprise me if it was all loony. The thought that it might be real, doesn't seem unlikely, and a government cover up? Ever hear of MK Ultra? How about Stuxnet?
Jane Fonda ethically revealed the truth and was branded as a traitor for years as a result. Truth is, we got nothing till we get something and the problem with UFO research is that you can't prove a negative.

[Effete Snob]

65. "if it was all fake to make other nations think we had an edge"

Oh, not just that.

The UFO stuff caused a fucking amateur observation corps to keep their attention focused for years on a facility where the US develops and tests its most advanced aerospace technology. That's no accident.

We did some of that to them, but not as successfully.

The incidence of "alien phenomena" in the vicinity of military installations is astounding, if you know what I mean.

Yes, there are games played around this. Pretend you have a secret and see who comes looking and how. It's a very old game.

Why pay spies when you can get idiots to go crawling around the Nevada desert with cameras for free!

[Xoan]

62. Without pictures...

This is just bullshit.

[Effete Snob]

66. Here, look

Can you explain that?

No?

Okay. Then it's settled.

[Evolve Dammit]

69. We're obviously fucked as a species. Maybe, just maybe, we can evolve.

[FSogol]

143. Username checks out.

[Scrivener7]

70. It's a cookbook!!!!

[AllaN01Bear]

71. i seen this story on youtube and said do not recomend channel. if it pops up agin

ill give it another go.

[zipplewrath]

74. What is the criteria for "nonhuman orgin"?

You find something. You don't understand it. What about it means that it is of "nonhuman origin". Since you don't understand it, how can you decide that no other human does, much less that no other human could create it.

[Polybius]

106. Let's say it was something that levitates with no propulsion...

Something stronger than titanium, but lighter than aluminum. Finally, it was found in 1947. Where else would you think it could be from? Certainly not Earth humans.

[zipplewrath]

107. Because?

If it can be created, what prevents humans from creating it?

[Polybius]

116. I get what you're saying

There's also the chance that it could be private. There's always a possibility that a mad scientist of sort invented something that is better and faster than government craft.

[Effete Snob]

123. We're still puzzled by things made by humans with rocks

Before modern technology, people every bit as intelligent as our top engineers spent thousands of years working out how to do shit with rocks. They had a vast and intimate grasp of rock-based technology.

In fact, they were so smart, they made stuff out of rocks that still puzzles us.

So, yes, even ancient humans did things that we can’t quite figure out.

These are people who figured out how to make ICE in hot and dry climates such as the Middle East, and we’ve only recently rediscovered that technology and started using it again.

[Effete Snob]

151. How about something simpler

Made by humans? Yes or no.

If yes, please explain, in detail, how.

Using "something I can't explain" in order to explain "something else I can't explain" is a poor problem-solving strategy used by people who aren't very creative, since it just requires taking "everything I don't understand" and throwing it in the box labeled "gods", "aliens", "pixies" or what-have-you.

People are pretty clever. Always have been.

[cab67]

75. That's an extraordinary claim.

I’ll buy it when I’ve seen extraordinary evidence.

[Mr. Sparkle]

79. When people find out what they have been up too and for how long, they are gonna be pissed.

I bet they are a lot of very wealthy pissed off generals tonight.

[Kid Berwyn]

153. Thank you. Very illuminating interview.

The IC has targeted the American people with a very sophisticated disinformation campaign on this subject for a long time. Glad to see good people say, “Enough! We can handle the truth.”

[TeamProg]

82. It's past time to share everything with the people. I'm sure that churches would be against

revealing such info since the info would weigh against their "sky fairy" theories, etc.


Not that there's anything wrong with believing in the all seeing Sky Fairy..

[Effete Snob]

124. The irony

Do you not see the irony in mocking the “sky fairy” believers by claiming that there is a different set of sky fairies?

Oh boy, just wait until the bullshit believers are blown away by a bunch of other bullshit!

It’s kind of sad that UFO alien believers think they have an edge over religious people.

[TeamProg]

128. Only small thinkers would even THINK that ideology plays no part of what you just said.

Serious differences.

Not unlike Plato’s allegory of the cave.

I do agree, Sky Fairies come in all shapes and sizes.

[Effete Snob]

131. UFO nonsense

Is every bit as comical as any other religious belief system.

Because that is exactly what it is. It is magical thinking that allows people to feel superior to others who don’t “get it”.

[TeamProg]

134. I'm just a simple, curious Atheist who sees very little good in religious

fanatics. I think they do more harm than good.

Check out that allegory of the cave sometime.

The very religious also think humans are special in the universe.

[Effete Snob]

140. Yes, that's the point

Belief in gods and in alien visitors is the same thing, as far as I can tell. Some people are compelled to believe in visitations from gods, angels, demons, extraterrestrials, fairies, etc.. And yes, I’m quite familiar with Phil 101.

[Effete Snob]

168. Is Scientology a "church" in your world?

Because their "sky fairies" are precisely the ones which flit about in spaceships.

[TeamProg]

174. They can have their beliefs and if they want to call themselves a "church" I suppose they can. Wow,

you are really upset about this.

[Effete Snob]

176. Upset?

I'm entertained as all get out. UFO's are one of my favorite subjects. I wish DU had a whole forum for it.

One thing that makes me chuckle is the idea that UFO aliens would somehow upset religious applecarts. Scientology, Mormonism, Hinduism, and lots of other long-established religious expressly believe in life on other planets, and pretty much all organized religions involve extraterrestrial beings. Christianity has a whole roster of extraterrestrial intelligent beings.

But UFO believers don't see themselves as actually subscribing to a religious faith - so, yes, I find that funny more than anything else, since it fits any definition of religious faith you might want to come up with, right down to the "sky fairies" and the smug confidence they will be proven correct on the Day of Reckoning when Klaatu and his buddies come back.

Here's a question for you - when the UFO aliens reveal themselves AND then tell us about their religion, are you signing up?

But, as an atheist, I find all these things entertaining and enlightening about how human minds work, and don't work, moreso than about imaginary space beings. I'll be happy to meet them when they show up, but until then, it is more revealing about what goes on in people's heads than what goes on in space. Same as any other religious belief.

[TeamProg]

178. Face the fact that the leadership of organized religion don't actually live by or believe much of

scruptiure themselves, it's a power-trip. They don't care if aliens are protrayed through history or stories. They don't fret about all the many interpretations of "God's word", as long as they can sell it.

Established organized religious leaders will freak out in their closets if actual hard evidence is presented to the public. Ultimately, they'll keep changing their "truth" to whatever keeps the $$$ coming in.

Give it a rest - no more from you, please.

Answer: 'Hey, sign me up little green guy!'. How absurd.

[Effete Snob]

179. And?

WTF does the corruption of religious leaders have to do with space aliens?

Yes, religion is bullshit and its practitioners are con artists. They are not, however, the only ones.

"Give it a rest - no more from you, please. "

Lol, you sound upset.

You know how much money people make off of UFO bullshit? They don't give much of a shit about truth either.

Sorry, I'll post whatever makes me happy, boss.

Once you realize that there are more bullshit schemes than simply organized religion, you will have taken a big step toward freeing your mind.

One realization is that a lot of organized religion is based on getting people to believe there's some kind of intelligent life "out there" somewhere. UFO beliefs are simply a subset of religious beliefs generally - and also have their cynical proponents making bank from it.

[LiberalLovinLug]

196. Question:

Is is it possible that both are true?

That there is other life out there? That they may have even visited Earth? That the US and maybe other governments have recovered evidence, which they are hiding from the public?

And

In the never ending quest for the almighty dollar, a heck of a lot of opportunists, who mostly do not actually believe any of the above is true, are happy selling books, shows, t-shirts, mugs, etc.?

[Effete Snob]

198. Anything is possible

It's possible that Joseph Smith found the Book of Mormon on gold plates in upstate New York in the 1800s. Certainly, there is a large number of people who believe it. I have never seen evidence of same to my satisfaction, so I don't believe it.

Do you believe it is possible that Joseph Smith found the Book of Mormon on gold plates in upstate New York in the 1800s?

I think it would be pretty stupid not to believe in the possibility of extraterrestrial life.

To date, however, there is no evidence that they have visited earth etc., so they stay in the same box with Joseph Smith's gold plates, Santa, etc..

Maybe they only come to visit the ghosts, since Earth is the only planet that is haunted by them.

There are some amazing things in this universe which, in contrast to alien visitors, are verifiably true. I haven't learned about all of the PROVEN things yet. So, when I stop being in awe of how many things people know, and which I have not yet personally learned, then I'll worry about the things for which there is only speculation and zero evidence. But I have not run out of wonder at actually reality yet, nor am I so arrogant to believe that the real, existing things I don't know aren't worth learning about.

[LiberalLovinLug]

206. Good answer!

I am an agnostic/atheist (depending on what kind of day I'm having). Heck, I'll even pray to God if I'm in trouble, just to cover my bases

Grew up in an evangelical fundamentalist home. So there's always a tiny bit of Sunday School in me. But I left organized religion behind me a long time ago. I now regard all religion as a scourge on the planet.

But to me, there's a difference between believing in an entity who created the universe and all living things, and to this day controls all aspects of peoples lives, and world events. without one shred of evidence. And being more open to the idea of other creatures existing, and visiting Earth.

One has "faith" that what they believe is true. I always wondered why "faith" was such an honorable atribute. People use "a man of faith" to elevate him. All that means is that he only relies on his own illogical conclusions based on some ancient book.

The other has many witnesses of abduction. Witnesses of seeing flying crafts that do not behave as Earthly vehicles. Including incidents reported by air force members. Even video evidence. Of course some may be fabricated, but the sheer amount of witnesses weighing in gives it more credence. And that if even you yourself would say "it would be pretty stupid not to believe in the possibility of extraterrestrial life", would you not weigh purported witnesses to your statement more believable than those who rely only on "faith" to support their beliefs?

Crop circles is a big one that rarely gets discussed. Of course some people go out and "prove" they can be made by humans overnight. But these are mostly crude resemblances. No explanation has ever been given for the more extremely complicated crop circles that pop up overnight. Nor has any skeptic been able to duplicate the way the crops are bent but not broken.

[Effete Snob]

213. Oh good golly

Yeah, the amazing thing about crop circles is how the aliens got better at it over time.

Sort of like they did with pyramids.

First, the aliens in Egypt built simple mastabas. By stacking those, they built step pyramids, and ultimately came up with the flat sided Giza pyramids.

Then, in an entirely different epoch, the aliens flew over to Mexico and built completely different pyramids with steps up the side and a structure on top.

I think maybe the aliens were learning from humans along the way.

[Effete Snob]

201. Will you answer a question of mine?

Why do you assume UFO visitors are aliens in spacecraft, and not future humans dropping by for a peek in their time machines?

Explain to me why you dismiss that without even thinking about it?

I don't think it helps to be narrow minded, so I want to know how you prune that possibility off your list.

[LiberalLovinLug]

214. Did I dismiss that?

No need to invent straw men.
Of course that possibility exists that they come here via time machine. A much more implausible reality IMO, because of all sorts of butterfly effect reasons, but sure. I don't dismiss that entirely, even though I think it highly unlikely. So if you would have been critical if I did dismiss the time travel option entirely, does that mean you are saying that time travel is something one must always leave room for? How is that different than leaving room for extraterrestrial visitations?

I just don't get how you go from "I think it would be pretty stupid not to believe in the possibility of extraterrestrial life." on one hand and then say ...its pretty stupid to believe in the possibility that these possible extraterrestrials have reached Earth in some way. Either with spacecraft, or time, or hey, another possibility is they can travel between parallel universes, or some other means we know nothing about.

Why is the existence of aliens a plausible thing for you, but their ability to travel to our world, in whatever way they have available, is a ridiculous thought? I would think logically you have to either dismiss both or be open to both.

[sarisataka]

183. Funny thing-

The Vatican observatory is a major partner with SETI and others search for signs of extraterrestrial life.

Seems the "Church" is fine with all types of "sky fairies"

[TeamProg]

187. Vatican has had astronomers for centuries. A "partnership" with SETI? I'd have to see docs on that.

But it's possible that EVERY established observatory has a "partnership" with SETI and other observatories simply to share info and for peer review of findings.

re: Messaging - The Vatican had to know that Galileo was right, they just didn't like his messaging of the truth.

If alien life is proven to be true, I think religious leaders would be in the difficult position of explaining to and comforting their gullible followers about how humans just aren't that special.

They've already proven themselves to be fearful.

Oh SHOOT! And those aliens? They're Atheists!

[sarisataka]

190. Perhaps partnership isn't the right word

But they have common goals. Extraterrestrial life would not cause a theological crisis

Vatican looks to heavens for signs of alien life

Vatican-sponsored meeting discusses chances of extraterrestrial life

[machoneman]

83. Its all.....bullshit. Just due to the distances involved, even alien particles/pieces would have....

...been launched thousands of years ago, if not even longer.

If alien life exists, send a ship to take those lunatic MAGATS and TFG back home. Stat!

[nowforever]

84. Interesting theory

There is one theory that postulates, the UFO's that are seen, are actually humans from a future earth who are traveling back in time. Humans are traveling back in time to gather biological samples from present day humans because they are dying due to collapse of their immune systems. Could be why so many abductees report physical exams with tissue samples being taken. Explains why these aircraft seem to disappear into thin air suddenly.

[NoMoreRepugs]

85. Magadonians? TrumpBirdBrainians? WTF??

[EmeraldCoaster]

86. Total nonsense .

I have flown around the world with credentialed, impeccable, military servicemen who believe in big foot aliens and the Bermuda Triangle. That man is no whistleblower, just another snake oil salesman.

[BootinUp]

113. +1

[onetexan]

89. I wana see pix of the aliens spacecraft

[electric_blue68]

90. I'm nearly finished with "In Plain Sight" Ross Coulhart an Australian Journalist who's researched...

and interviewed top people: military, astronauts, scientists.

He along with most others debunk most claims; but a few other stories, and literal things...could be real, and extroidinary.

I'm going to reread some parts to retain it better.

Yeah, been interested in Astronomy and adjacent fields just about all my life (and done Earth Sciences, too). I actually kind of understand how vast the Universe is despite one of my favorite SF authors (and futurist), and genuine Astrophysicist - David Brin says about people's incomprehension. It is rather swoonyish, though.

Sonewhat unusual background I was one of the preemies back in the '50s in the general prenatal care units who received (after further testing) changed oxygen levels to prevent sight loss.

So they must have tested some, many, ?all further in those early years for cognitive changes, defects etc. I have vauge memories sitting at a table by a window, and pushing blocks with geometric designs around.

While being highest in (via a different chart of interests, abilities etc waaay later developed by a linguist to determine learning styles) visual, but close in kinetic as well - back then I was told by my parents who were told at some point that my abstraction abilities were nearly off-the-charts. Which may be why I can some what comprehend that part of cosmology. Maybe why I can do certain kinds of art, too.

[MLAA]

91. I see no reason to think or say it's impossible there are other beings in this immeasurably huge

universe.

[Effete Snob]

126. No one says that

There is not a single person in this thread saying it is impossible for there to be life elsewhere in the universe.

Not one.

I believe that all kinds of fantastic things are possible. Unfortunately, there is no evidence of many of those things.

[electric_blue68]

93. Here we go from Ross Coulhart investigative journalist who has been been dismissive of much ...

Understandably. But not everything as he interviewed more and more serious people.

[url=https://postimg.cc/xq601DPV][img][/img][/url]

Oh, dang why did that show up fuzzy? Always gotten clear shots. Will try again

Let's see Sorry if this is wrong copy link!


Ah, there we go. 👍

[muriel_volestrangler]

225. LOL. Gallaudet is a retired US Navy admiral.

See https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143083484#post19

[Wonder Why]

94. Wait! Did all these UFOs come just to the U.S? None to our allies, our enemies or the other

countries of the world? And in all that time there have been no leaks even from "third world" places?

Is this just one giant world conspiracy or individual conspiracies by each of thr 193 U.N members?

Did the U.S. buy up all the UFO parts from around the world? How much did we pay for them?

Was Twitter taken over by Elon the Maniac because all their code came from ETs?

Did the earth really stand still when Michael Rennie arrived?

Are Them [pardon the English] just Republicans, ants or Aliens?

Are the UFOs considered Undocumented Aircraft?

If the aliens are from other planets in the universe, does that count as AI or is that reserved for describing Margorie Taylor Greene?

Tune in next week when Google presents another episode of "Amazing Stories"!

[WheelWalker]

109. Did you read the article at the link?

[Effete Snob]

127. I did

And the idea that the US government can somehow manage to hide the existence of advanced extraterrestrial visitors is hilarious.

We couldn’t keep how to make Hydrogen bombs a secret.

[WheelWalker]

136. Well, it's either true or it's false. Fact or fictition. If not actual and true,

it makes a great script for a Netflix series, don't you think? In this case, however, the characters appear to be factual and not fictional.

BTW, I didn't see reference to extraterrestrials when I read it. That the materials and technologies were not of human origin, yes. I think in this case precision might count. Am I wrong?

I'm wet with anticipation waiting to find out. Fact? Or, fiction?

[Effete Snob]

195. No, there are things which are neither true nor false

There are unproven hypotheses which have not been shown to be true or false.

People with limited minds have a hard time dealing with "we don't know," so they fill in the blanks with gods, etc., like drawing sea monsters on the unexplored oceans of ancient maps.

[WheelWalker]

205. I see what you did there.

[JHB]

95. Is it the same one the Brits have?

[Hermit-The-Prog]

231. Don't forget your towell.

[JHB]

236. I always know where my towel is.

[Mr.Bill]

100. Two questions.

1. Isn't this revealing classified information if it's true? I mean if it wasn't classified, wouldn't we have heard about it a long time ago?

2. When does his book come out?

[TeamProg]

101. The "Church" and religious types will rationalize ANYTHING, change every goal post or previous

belief to bend, shape, assimilate their belief system into any new real facts.

So yeah, perhaps the revealing of extra-terrestrials will not move them, at least publicly.

Or, this info could separate many believers from their church.

[Effete Snob]

130. The church and religious types...

…can barely hold a candle to UFO alien believers when it comes to irrational faith in things for which there is no evidence.

[Polybius]

103. Please, please, please let this be true!

[Effete Snob]

129. Request denied

[mwb970]

138. I think not.

[roamer65]

104. Maybe Bob Lazar wasn't lying.

[Fiendish Thingy]

108. The Debrief.com?

C’mon, man.

[Polybius]

117. How about this one:

Military whistleblower claims US has UFO retrieval program

[muriel_volestrangler]

160. The more I read, the less I'm convinced.

That link (newsnationnow.com) says

Grusch also said he has not seen photos of the alleged craft himself, but has spoken extensively with other intelligence officials who have.

Grusch told NewsNation the American public has been lied to for decades.

Or, you know, maybe he was the one lied to.

I'm suspicious that thedebrief.org did not make clear that he has never seen photos (let alone the craft). He just claimed "the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures" show they're alien. But now he admits he's never seen them, and without some details of the "unique atomic arrangements" or "radiological signatures", I'm going to conclude he's not qualified to determine the uniqueness, and hasn't seen the underlying evidence.

However, NewsNation has added something extra in:

According to Grusch, that includes spacecraft from quite a number of other species.
...
"Sometimes you encounter dead pilots and believe it or not, as fantastical as that sounds, it’s true,” he said.

So now he's saying they've had dead lifeforms, of a number of types. And yet the first story didn't mention that? It's an even bigger bombshell. And yet now, he doesn't give any details of these lifeforms. How big are they? Are they DNA-based, or something else? Have they been able to work out their metabolism? Do they have skeletons, internal or external? Anything that looks like sight organs?

As a blown whistle, it's remarkably disappointing.

[Disaffected]

222. "unique atomic arrangements" or "radiological signatures",

IOWs, sciency bafflegab.

And as Will Shakespeare once wrote:

"Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing. "

[ruet]

157. This Story Was Originally Going to Be Run By The Washington Post.

Fears that the story was going to be scooped before WP published led to it being released on The Debrief. Anywho...

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/david-grusch-ufo-report_n_647eb0c1e4b0047ed782f875

https://www.newsweek.com/ufo-uap-craft-found-covered-whistleblower-claims-1804733

https://www.thedailybeast.com/military-whistleblower-comes-forward-to-allege-us-has-alien-craft-report-says

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/intelligence-office-whistleblower-claims-u-s-has-ufos-of-non-human-origin/ar-AA1c9OUE

[LudwigPastorius]

110. "(The UAP task force) has since been reorganized and expanded into the All-Domain Anomaly...

Resolution Office to include investigations of objects operating underwater."
_________________________________________

I've seen that show.

[BWdem4life]

132. It probably has so many recs

because it's such a fun thread to reply to.

The real question is, how has it lasted so long without being locked?

[Kid Berwyn]

158. Because it matters to democracy?

I dunno, news of contact with an unknown and possibly other-wordly intelligence seems a matter worthy of discussion.

As for locking a post, that seems to be the long-time aim of one group of DUers. An example from 2013, when I posted as Octafish:

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2386270

[Effete Snob]

180. It's a shame the aliens only contacted US government officials...

…and people in remote areas.

If you hear from them, so tell them that they’re being covered up by one of the many dozens of governments on this planet, and perhaps they should pick another one.

[AnrothElf]

115. Bullshit. n/t

[mahina]

133. Former.

Former.

Significant.

[mwb970]

137. Sorry, not buying it.

[SKKY]

142. So, decades of recovering "non-human" crafts...

...yet they largely remain invisible from everyone except on grainy, impossible-to-verify videos from military planes? Nah. Imma need more evidence.

[Effete Snob]

147. Well, there's your proof right there!

The government has taken extraordinary efforts to hide all of the evidence. Clearly, all of the evidence would be available but for the effort to cover it up. So, the fact that there is not more evidence shows how effective the coverup has been, thus proving that they exist. Otherwise, there would be no need to hide all of the evidence.

[Kid Berwyn]

152. Leslie Kean is TOPS.

Her work on the subject was published on the front page of The New York Times.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

175. Show us the actual retrieved craft.

[Deep State Witch]

177. This is Some BS!

Anybody seen Dr. Harry Vanderspiegle lately?

[Tommy Carcetti]

186. That's a funny show. nt

[quakerboy]

182. Fox news, the Sun and Daily Mail are really running with this

And internet conspiracy theorists think he is lying for the military to cover up something else.

[dembotoz]

184. are the odds better than the vikings winning the super bowl?

[sarisataka]

192. Virtually anything

Has better odds than that

[Tommy Carcetti]

185. I mean, okay?

Not sure what to make of TheDebrief.org as a source.

[honest.abe]

194. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Who specifically said the craft is "non-human origin"? And how do they know that for sure?? There are many materials and devices that might appear to be "non-human origin" to even the most knowledgeable person.

I think this is BS until more details are released.

[SWBTATTReg]

199. Always going to be naysayers, who will deny anything and everything, even it smacks them

in the face. Despite tons of highly credible witnesses, videos, etc., they still deny. And why? Why is it so hard to believe? No one ever really sees a virus unless it is magnified a millions times, otherwise, no one sees it. Does it means it doesn't exist?

I've seen, and I believe.

[Effete Snob]

202. So, why do you dismiss the possibility of future human time travelers?

What makes you believe they are space aliens and totally throw out the possibility that they are time traveling humans from the future?

Explain how you made that choice, since you obviously also eliminated the possibility they are ghosts.

I, for one, am sick and tired of narrow-minded naysayers who say they aren't ghosts.

[SWBTATTReg]

203. I didn't dismiss anything. You did.

[honest.abe]

207. There needs to be physical evidence that is thoroughly examined and analyzed by experts.

This would be much like the discovery of dinosaur bones. It wasn't accepted they were from prehistoric beasts until there was irrefutable evidence.

[SWBTATTReg]

208. And you don't think that there any evidence? Of course you would know. NT

[honest.abe]

209. So where is it??

The article doesn't provide much about actual evidence or analysis. Just a statement it's "non-human origin" and some vague references to some analysis. We need more than that. The data needs to be released to the public so others can verify.

[SWBTATTReg]

210. Like I said, it could in front of your face and you would deny it. Why mess w/ people like you?

It's not worth fighting like you ... or arguing. Nothing makes sense to you.

[honest.abe]

211. Thanks for the personal insult.

[Effete Snob]

215. People get upset when you challenge their religious dogma

[Permanut]

212. Provides an interesting angle on the Fermi paradox.

[TeamProg]

221. The Top 5 Things Wrong with UFO Retrieval Program Story

Too bad, could've been interesting!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017834691#post5

[cstanleytech]

227. The RNC had its private jet seized?

[BrinksHomeSexcurity]

234. You ever see desantis laugh? Uncanny valley galore

Infiltration is the first step to alien invasion. They Live wasn't just a movie but a warning!

[miyazaki]

235. Needs to be checked for dental fillings.

[Polybius]

237. It's looking more and more like he's telling the truth

Can't wait for the hearings!

[shrike3]

238. How so? What's changed? n/t

[Polybius]

239. His background has come out a bit more

He really is impeccable. He's risking it all. Lying would forever destroy him.

[shrike3]

240. Which proves nothing.

[shrike3]

241. "DeBrief is a notably UFO-friendly outfit."

Some purported whistleblowers are truth-tellers with solid information, some are kooks, and some fall somewhere between those two poles. Grusch admits he has no firsthand knowledge of these purported programs. He hasn’t seen any craft, or certainly any dead alien pilots. Rather, he says he’s repeating what other people have told him. Who are these people? Does he really know what they are saying is true? What evidence does he have?

He has not publicly released any such specifics. His defenders point out that any such details would be classified, so it would be illegal to release specifics. They also argue that he handed over the classified details he knew to the inspector general and Congress, and point out it would be a crime to lie to either.

Yet skeptics question whether Grusch is just repeating tall tales that have long circulated through the UFO-believing community, suggesting he may be just a gullible sap (if not an outright fabulist). They also point out that prestigious media sources have so far remained wary of Grusch — the New York Times, Washington Post, and Politico were all offered his story but none thought it was publishable. The Debrief, which published it, is a notably UFO-friendly outlet, as are Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal, the two journalists who wrote the story. And purported bombshells like this in the past have tended to fizzle out.

https://www.vox.com/2023/6/10/23753777/ufos-david-grusch-whistleblower-kean-blumenthal-debrief

Interesting story, and I think fair.

[Polybius]

243. I doubt everyone is lying to him

He has also seen documents saying that they have the space craft, he just hasn't seen the even more classified pics themselves.

[shrike3]

244. Who are "they"?

"Grusch admits he has no firsthand knowledge of these purported programs. He hasn’t seen any craft, or certainly any dead alien pilots. Rather, he says he’s repeating what other people have told him. Who are these people? Does he really know what they are saying is true? What evidence does he have?"

Really, nothing's changed.

[Polybius]

245. He said he's seen the documents, stating that the recovery program is real and we have 12 craft

He just hasn't seen the craft, but he spoke to a few who have.

[shrike3]

246. Where did he say this? Besides, it sounds familiar.

There have been others like him. They come along every now and then.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course; it's just as valid as mine. AND, your opinion may be the correct one.
However, for now I agree with the last four paragraphs of the Vox article.

"The journalist Garrett Graff, who’s writing a book on the government’s UFO programs, told Vanity Fair that specifics and evidence always seem to be what’s missing from these claims. Instead, as ever, there’s a lot of people passing on fantastical claims they’ve heard from others, which Graff suggested makes it feel like a “game of telephone.”

"The UFO-logists have a ready response here: the specifics are classified, so people can’t talk about them! Yet that’s unsatisfying to me. Classified information leaks all the time. Would every single person over 80 years who could reveal aliens’ existence to the world, changing humanity’s conception of itself forever, really be too chicken due to fear of a little US government prosecution? Would every president be either so deferential to the security state, or kept so ignorant by them? Would other governments have successfully kept this secret too?

"For now, both the believers and the skeptics agree about what comes next: Grusch’s classified claims will be reviewed by the intelligence community’s inspector general and Congress.

"The skeptics have a prediction for how all this will go: We’ll never get Grusch’s specifics. Congressional investigations of his claims will be inconclusive or outright debunk him. And we’ll move on to a new wild series of claims next time around."

[shrike3]

242. "What's up with those claims the US has recovered UFOs?"

What’s up with those claims the US has recovered UFOs?

Some purported whistleblowers are truth-tellers with solid information, some are kooks, and some fall somewhere between those two poles. Grusch admits he has no firsthand knowledge of these purported programs. He hasn’t seen any craft, or certainly any dead alien pilots. Rather, he says he’s repeating what other people have told him. Who are these people? Does he really know what they are saying is true? What evidence does he have?

He has not publicly released any such specifics. His defenders point out that any such details would be classified, so it would be illegal to release specifics. They also argue that he handed over the classified details he knew to the inspector general and Congress, and point out it would be a crime to lie to either.

Yet skeptics question whether Grusch is just repeating tall tales that have long circulated through the UFO-believing community, suggesting he may be just a gullible sap (if not an outright fabulist). They also point out that prestigious media sources have so far remained wary of Grusch — the New York Times, Washington Post, and Politico were all offered his story but none thought it was publishable. The Debrief, which published it, is a notably UFO-friendly outlet, as are Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal, the two journalists who wrote the story. And purported bombshells like this in the past have tended to fizzle out.

Claims of extraterrestrial craft or life forms — and government cover-ups — have long been the province of conspiracy theorists, fringe figures, and supermarket tabloids. But the UFO believers found success in recent years by downplaying wild claims of aliens and focusing on what might be called “weird shit in the sky.”

https://www.vox.com/2023/6/10/23753777/ufos-david-grusch-whistleblower-kean-blumenthal-debrief