Report: Israeli Spy Satellites Spot Iranian Ship Being Loaded With Rockets For Gaza
Source: HAARETZ
Israeli spy satellites have spotted an Iranian ship being loaded with missiles that analysts say may be headed for Gaza, The Sunday Times reported.
According to the report, the cargo may include Fajr-5 rockets, like those that were fired by Hamas toward Israel and the stockpiles of which the Israel Defense Forces depleted during the recent round of fighting across the Gaza border, in addition to Shahab-3 ballistic missiles, which could be stationed in Sudan to pose a direct threat to Israel.
With a lot of effort, Iran has skillfully built a strategic arm pointing at Israel from the south, an Israeli source was quoted as saying.
The cargo would travel via the Red Sea, Sudan and Egypt, following a well-established route used by Iran to smuggle arms into Gaza, the Times reported.
Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/report-israeli-spy-satellites-spot-iranian-ship-being-loaded-with-rockets-for-gaza-1.480303
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Haaretz.com, the online edition of Haaretz Newspaper in Israel
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)and Iran would quit supplying rockets to a terrorist org, there wouldn't be war.
Just sayin'
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)Ash_F
(5,861 posts)to quit funneling arms into the conflict while putting pressure on Israel to reverse its deplorable human rights policies. Both things can happen at the same time.
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)Nobody says anything when ships with American arms get sent all over the world to kill people.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Arms smuggling is illegal.
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)The US smuggles all the time... to libyan reb els... syrian rebels, etc.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)There was no recognized embargo on smudging to Libyan rebels. We were supplying them with arms. There was an embargo with the Libyan government at the time, so giving them weapons would have been smuggling.
The gaza is under a recognized and published embargo, so moving weapons into that region is illegal.
That may be splitting legal hairs, but that is as it is.
RedFury
(85 posts)....arms smuggling operation in the world is happening right under your nose. Where do you think the Mexican drug cartels get their weapons? In fact did you ever hear of the ATF's (in)famous operation Fast & Furious?
blm
(113,103 posts)who Issa was uninterested in questioning?
Comrade_McKenzie
(2,526 posts)SamHarris2012
(42 posts)Why didn't Israel bomb the ship? Seems to me its better to bomb the ship than to bomb women and children after the fact.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Bombing an Iranian ship would be a big deal. And risky if escorts have anti-air weapons. Making this public is a probably a 'line in the sand' warning for the Iranians not to cross.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)and examine the contents and if found with rockets, seize it or sink it.
We all know where these rockets would be headed for and it's not in the interests of the cease fire for them to get to Hamas in the Gaza strip.
mitchtv
(17,718 posts)sounds like an act of war.Let Isreal commit her own acts of war , and leave US out
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)we have every right to intercept and examine the cargo that may be headed towards a terrorist org. which Hamas is.
mitchtv
(17,718 posts)enlightenment
(8,830 posts)or Israel or any other nation to do that?
Let me help. Here is the relevant international law. Please copy and paste the section within that law that would allow the US, Israel, or any other nation to 'intercept and examine the cargo.'
http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part7.htm
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)EX500rider
(10,874 posts)United Nations Security Council Resolution 1803 allows for stopping and inspecting cargo on Iranian shipping
Also United Nations Security Council Resolution 1929 recommended that states inspect Iranian cargo.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)since they come out of committees and do not have the vote of the majority body of the UN (as in Conventions, like the Law of the Sea).
Further, even if the US or Israel were to take the recommendation, they would be limited by the language, which in your first example, reads:
Calls upon all States to exercise vigilance and restraint regarding the entry into or transit through their territories of individuals who are engaged in, directly associated with or providing support for Irans proliferation sensitive nuclear activities or for the development of nuclear weapon delivery systems, and decides in this regard that all States shall notify the Committee established pursuant to paragraph 18 of resolution 1737 (2006) (herein the Committee) of the entry into or transit through their territories of the persons designated in the Annex to resolution 1737 (2006), Annex I to resolution 1747 (2007) or Annex I to this resolution, as well as of additional persons designated by the Security Council or the Committee as being engaged in, directly associated with or providing support for Irans proliferation sensitive nuclear activities or for the development of nuclear weapon delivery systems, including through the involvement in procurement of the prohibited items, goods, equipment, materials and technology specified by and under the measures in paragraphs 3 and 4 of resolution 1737 (2006), except where such entry or transit is for activities directly related to the items in subparagraphs 3(b) (i) and (ii) of resolution 1737 (2006);
The important words in that recommendation are "regarding the entry into or transit through their territories".
In other words, if Iranian shipping is within the territorial waters of a nation, that nation should exercise due diligence. NOT in international waters.
In your second example, there is nothing specific beyond the broad recommendation - but there is a very specific reminder about the law of the sea:
Recalling that the law of the sea, as reflected in the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (1982), sets out the legal framework applicable to ocean activities,
Would you like to try again? Nothing you've cited in any way allows any nation to stop a ship on the high seas.
EX500rider
(10,874 posts)...vessels get stopped and searched all the time in international waters, examples: suspected pirate mother ships off Somalia, suspected drug smuggling vessels anywhere in the Caribbean or off Cenrtal America on either side.
One_Life_To_Give
(6,036 posts)They are very careful not to violate international law when executing a search on a suspected drug runner or pirate vessel. Notifications to the flag state are routine prior to stopping a vessel. Except in the case of pirates where by definition the flag state does not exist.
EX500rider
(10,874 posts)....the US Coast Guard stops and searches "go fast" type cigarette boats on the high seas with no flag showing and even use gun fire to disable the engines if they don't stop. (not that that's relevant to a Iranian flagged vessel)
One_Life_To_Give
(6,036 posts)I think you will find the USCG is very aware of National and International Law and Treaties. You may not like the practice but their operational policy has probably been extremely vetted by both admiralty lawyers and the state department.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)you would see that piracy and drug trafficking interdiction are covered. Further, the US Coast Guard does abide by what the treaty says:
U.S. Coast Guard boardings of vessels at sea have been an effective tool in both the deterrence of traffickers and the interdiction of drugs at sea. When the Coast Guard suspects a non-U.S. vessel of drug trafficking activity, the U.S. Coast Guard contacts the flag state of the vessel and requests permission to board the vessel, search it, and enforce either U.S. law or, alternatively, the law of the flag state. (Under international law, only the flag state may issue such permission.) All U.S. Coast Guard communications with the flag state are done strictly on a government-to-government basis via established diplomatic channels.
We're not talking about drug trafficking, piracy, slavery, or - even - transportation of weapons of mass destruction.
To reiterate: neither the US nor Israel (nor any other nation) has a right to halt/board/search an Iranian cargo ship that is NOT suspected of carrying WMD/piracy/drugs trafficking/slavery/etc. while it is in international waters. Even if it were suspected of doing so, the nations that chose to carry out an interdiction would have to abide by international law. This is not the wild west or the eighteenth century.
obxhead
(8,434 posts)Israel to restock their armaments?
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)...this has little to do with law or justice as much as The Big Dog Theory. Thought so.
The US isn't smuggling arms and munitions to Israel so if Iran tried to intercept a US flagged ship, the US would be justified in sending any Iranian ship to the bottom of the sea.
Iran is smuggling arms and munitions to a terrorist org, Hamas which then shoots them into Israel.
RedFury
(85 posts)glacierbay
(2,477 posts)and they say that Hamas is a terrorist org., but, yeah, I guess it's who you ask.
Who legally represented The Palestinians in the cease fire negotiations? I certainly don't recall seeing anyone from the PLO there, much less Mahmoud Abbas.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)Hadn't thought about that. You raise an interesting point.
obxhead
(8,434 posts)We can claim that any organization is a terrorist and a threat to the world.
From Iran's perspective Israel is a violent disturbance to their security.
The problem is we're both right.
Now, you claim we have a RIGHT to sink an Iranian ship, yet they have no RIGHT to do the same thing, for the exact same reasons in the end.
Iran is a sovereign country. Regardless of your very simple thoughts on the situation, we don't have the right to do as you say we do.
aquart
(69,014 posts)We fought the war of 1812 because the British were boarding our ships.
By the way, it's adorable how you want to risk American lives in this piracy-on-the-high-seas adventure. The Iranians would never think to defend themselves with deadly force, of course.
The time to get the rockets is ten minutes after the Iranian ship reaches international waters AFTER unloading the rockets in Gaza. Then nobody will give a damn. (Yeah, yeah, protests, marches, denunciations in the UN, editorials...big deal. Giving a damn is gearing up factories and re-instituting the draft. And we ain't doing that for Gaza.)
byeya
(2,842 posts)well as keeping on cashing American checks. We all know that.
King_David
(14,851 posts)glacierbay
(2,477 posts)Spoken like a true anti Israel person.
byeya
(2,842 posts)so what term is more appropriate do you think? Eh?
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I see the stupid and ignorance is still strong on this subject.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)The multi-national, worldwide Zionist movement is structured on representative democratic principles. Congresses are held every four years (they were held every two years before the Second World War) and delegates to the congress are elected by the membership. Members are required to pay dues known as a shekel. At the congress, delegates elect a 30-man executive council, which in turn elects the movement's leader. The movement was democratic from its inception and women had the right to vote.
Until 1917, the World Zionist Organization pursued a strategy of building a Jewish National Home through persistent small-scale immigration and the founding of such bodies as the Jewish National Fund (1901 a charity that bought land for Jewish settlement) and the Anglo-Palestine Bank (1903 provided loans for Jewish businesses and farmers). In 1942, at the Biltmore Conference, the movement included for the first time an express objective of the establishment of a Jewish state in the Land of Israel.
The 28th Zionist Congress, meeting in Jerusalem in 1968, adopted the five points of the "Jerusalem Program" as the aims of Zionism today. They are:[18]
Unity of the Jewish People and the centrality of Israel in Jewish life
Ingathering of the Jewish People in its historic homeland, Eretz Israel, through Aliyah from all countries
Strengthening of the State of Israel, based on the prophetic vision of justice and peace
Preservation of the identity of the Jewish People through fostering of Jewish and Hebrew education, and of Jewish spiritual and cultural values
Protection of Jewish rights everywhere
Since the creation of modern Israel, the role of the movement has declined and it is now a peripheral factor in Israeli politics, though different perceptions of Zionism continue to play a role in Israeli and Jewish political discussion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionists
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)People got killed when the IDF boarded that Turkish ship a while back, and it turned out to be just food and necessities, many of which are still inexplicably and inexcusably banned from use by Palestinians. Again we are reminded of Israel's deplorably racist regulations.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Ignoring of course, the question of whether it's legal to do so at all.
aquart
(69,014 posts)But I truly appreciate your eagerness to start World War III and obliterate Israel. And millions of the rest of us.
In case you were wondering, GAZA IS NOT A SOVEREIGN NATION.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Is Gaza a part of Israel or of Egypt?
I thought the land was originally part of Egypt, taken in a war by Israel, who then moved out some years back.
If it was given back to Egypt (IIRC in the first place) isn't this a matter between those two governments?
I thought they had a peace treaty, too.
Are we talking about a situation like the cartels in Mexico, who their government don't seem capable of controlling?
If so, maybe the two governments could work out something between each other rather than an all-out war.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)All in one. Egypt doesn't want it and despite revolutions and springs still basically upholds the Israeli blockade on its side. This little territory is surrounded and blockaded on all five sides (the fifth "side" would be that they have no control of air space) and subject to Israeli military incursion at any time, which means it's de facto still occupied territory -- but without any obligations accepted by the Israeli state, who claim to have vacated it back in 2005.
Another word for it is hell.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)I don't buy the 'territory' notion generally. If it is blockaded, someone is feeding and supplying them. That someone is responsible for resolving this peacefully, maintaining the population. I never buy the overwhelming evil Eye of Sauron routine being projected by both sides.
There is something propping up both sides, from the Israeli side, most likely the US Treasury, arms manufacturers or both. We see these news stories, there are so many variables in them. The OP seems uncertain, but it's likely to scare those in this country who fear/hate Iran, as well as those who don't. Same as far as the feelings about Israel, Palestine, Gaza, etc.
Someone is benefitting from this state of affairs on both sides. Perhaps it is the oil industry on both sides of the conflict, as many of the Middle Easterners with great wealth from the oil business and Muslims around the world hold these people in the same regard the American Taliban hold the fetus, precious beyond measure of law and logic, yet not going to help the mother or child otherwise. I find this disturbing.
And an open air torture chamber you describe as hell is not an economic asset to anyone. I'm not seeing enough data to convince me that it is. Who benefits from this public relations and human rights disaster, on either side?
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:44 PM - Edit history (1)
Gaza is very much dependent on UN aid through UNRWA:
http://www.unrwa.org/
The Israelis have a policy of letting in just enough for a survival diet.
I haven't found a UN position on the current legal status of Gaza under international law, but if it's surrounded and blockaded and subject to incursion and has no air rights, that's an occupation in fact, regardless of what either Israel or Hamas claim (for different reasons).
There doesn't have to be a real "benefit." Some motivations are irrational. Most Israelis including the present establishment (not just Likud) see their benefit in keeping and expanding settlements in the West Bank and shrinking the Palestinian areas into isolated bantustans behind high walls. They perceive a mortal threat, even if they have 99 percent of the power and the Palestinians have 1 percent. Planners have contemplated mass expulsion but this would mean a general war. Tiny Gaza is a pain, they don't want that land, they can't get rid of it, they can't depopulate it without a war, and they can't tolerate development there because they don't want a stronger Palestine, which would be considered a threat. They want to forever punish the Gazans for voting for Hamas in 2005 (though of course Israel once supported Hamas as a strategy to weaken the PLO). I believe they use Gaza for making demonstrations of their ability and will to commit violence, and thus send a message to the rest of the world that Israel is never to be fucked with because they will go mad dog, etc. etc. As if anyone really needed it.
RedFury
(85 posts)...is the de-facto organization that rules on humanitarian law. They've made their position quite clear: ICRC says Israel's Gaza blockade breaks law
This is backed by a number of statements concerning the situation in Gaza in the latest UN resolution on the conflict, once again vetoed by the US: 65/16. Peaceful settlement of the question of Palestine
oldhippydude
(2,514 posts)quite an escalation based on the "May" used in the article.. it would be an expansion of the conflict..
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)oldhippydude
(2,514 posts)par for the course at yahoo..
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)According to the article, the ship will never enter the area Israel has set up off the Gaza Strip. So they have no legal right to bomb the ship, and to do would likely start a war with Iran, and perhaps the Sudan (one of the cargo's destinations) as well as Egypt, the other destination.
They have shown clearly that Iran is arming a terrorist state with weapons used exclusively to attack civilian targets. Perhaps they hope the U.S., which is running a very successful economic embargo on Iran will board the ship and impound its cargo.
Sirveri
(4,517 posts)Can't really track those easily, would be curious to see what kind of fallout would happen from that.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)some unforeseen disaster. If id didn't destroy the ship outright, their own transmissions for help would spill the beans, because they could figure out from the first explosion that it was an attack not an accident.
Iranians also have submarines, and if they are following the ship to give it protection because it is in their vital national interest to support Gaza, then they would know and would tell the world.
If Israel destroys the ship, then they will get the blame for piracy and an act of war.
I think this was revealed more to put pressure on the various states allowing the movement through their territories.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)and warmongering
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)and narrative says " may be "
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Are they bbquing babies on bayonets?
Hurry, hurry! Drop the bomb! Exterminate the brutes!
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)Paulie
(8,462 posts)No dis, just saying.
born in the late 40's and no dis taken.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)"Heart of Darkness," and from the loose film adaptation by FF Coppola, "Apocalypse Now."
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)and I refuse to watch anything having to do with the Vietnam war, don't need to, I lived it.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)jeggus
(26 posts)Premature babies out of incubators.....................wait a minute, that was a lie too! Nevermind!
Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)I don't believe that for one moment. Another propaganda piece by Israel.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Those were marshmellows falling from the sky - they only blew up like rockets. The people running hamas are harmless like kittens. This news is coming from the most liberal paper in Israel.
and-justice-for-all
(14,765 posts)if its not even moving?? "Iranian ship being loaded with missiles that analysts say may be headed for Gaza"... Yeah, HAARETZ keep stirring the pot. I do not trust that source at all.
Chef Eric
(1,024 posts)Earth_First
(14,910 posts)FourScore
(9,704 posts)musical_soul
(775 posts)Sophiegirl
(2,338 posts)I just had a Palin flashback!!!
AnOhioan
(2,894 posts)Canuckistanian
(42,290 posts)Notice the report says "the cargo MAY include Faj-5 rockets"
I trust Israeli intelligence as far as I could throw them.
elbloggoZY27
(283 posts)Obviously Iran is a rogue state and not just an enemy of Israel but also of the Middle East in general. Since this ship is carrying WAR Supplies it should not be allowed to arrive at its destination. International Law applies and Israel has a right to take whatever action it deems appropriate.
Also, those who live in GAZA are being used by HAMAS and its supporters like IRAN.
Iran needs to be isolated.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)should even up that! Shoot down all planes carrying war supplies.
That would never affect the United States would it?
Be careful what you ask for.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)How about your tax dollars that go to fund Israel's military?
nineteen50
(1,187 posts)needs to stop shipping all that warfare welfare to Israeli enabling them to act belligerent. We are only making them weaker by bailing them out they need to go to work and be responsible for themselves.
railsback
(1,881 posts)Pretty damning headline.... and then it says 'might be', 'could be', 'may be'....
Whatever.
trouble.smith
(374 posts)uppityperson
(115,681 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)glacierbay
(2,477 posts)that those rockets are used defensively, as in to shoot down Hamas rockets being fired into Israel.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Start the hostilities. Kill the guy to whom you just gave your cease-fire proposal while he's thinking about it. Bomb a densely-populated sealed-off, blockaded patch of land, from the air. Level blocks in Gaza. Kill 150 people - defensively.
And the real difference? That American taxpayers are paying for it.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)they've been shooting rockets into Israel for months on end and Israel finally had enough and retaliated.
RedFury
(85 posts)Pull the other one: Israel's 'Right To Self-Defense' - A Tremendous Propaganda Victory
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)I've got my opinions, and my opinion is that Israel is defending itself from Hamas rocket fire, deal with it.
RedFury
(85 posts)...allowed to have your own opinion, but not make-up your own facts.
Read the article for the latter.
harun
(11,348 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)We should be working for disarmament of all militaries.
National militaries, wars, arms trade and weapons development have all become an absurdity on this small planet. Overdetermining our general tendency to species suicide over the next few decades. War has always been a crime, nowadays it's obsolete and unwinnable. No one should be arming anyone, especially in the Middle East.
But as you say, long as the US and west so heavily arm and protect one side, the other will get its arms where it can.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)This shit's getting old...
olddad56
(5,732 posts)that analysts say may be headed for Israel?
clbinepa
(1 post)very good question
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)olddad56
(5,732 posts)jeggus
(26 posts)like the Wile E Coyote Acme bomb that Netanyahu drew in front of the UN. If Bibi had not given the Iranians this drawing they would still be in the planning stages!