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erodriguez

(671 posts)
Tue May 14, 2024, 07:08 AM May 14

'Total outrage': White House condemns Israeli settlers' attack on Gaza aid trucks

Source: The Guardian

“It is a total outrage that there are people who are attacking and looting these convoys coming from Jordan, going to Gaza to deliver humanitarian assistance,” US national security adviser Jake Sullivan told reporters.

Israel’s siege of Gaza has created what aid officials are referring to as “man-made starvation”, with the territory facing the threat of mass deaths from famine with children already dying from hunger.


Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/13/total-outrage-white-house-condemns-israeli-settlers-attack-on-gaza-aid-convoy



It's not the first time this has happened. And the Israeli police did nothing to stop it while it was happening.

These "settlers" are fine with starving people and ethnic cleansing in order to get some beachfront land.
110 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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'Total outrage': White House condemns Israeli settlers' attack on Gaza aid trucks (Original Post) erodriguez May 14 OP
That is so horrible. mucifer May 14 #1
And they have the silent support... Think. Again. May 14 #2
The support isn't silent atreides1 May 14 #5
Two modern-day Milosevics peppertree May 14 #64
plus people in U.S. sending cash Traurigkeit May 14 #72
I reported it to the FBI and it has been removed!! LeftInTX May 16 #104
Excellent ! Traurigkeit May 16 #105
That is why I have been harshly critical of the Israeli government tornado34jh May 14 #3
Netanyahu is just like Trump, encouraging the worst and most violent behavior from the right wing. Lonestarblue May 14 #6
Then you wonder why the world sees the US and Israel negatively tornado34jh May 14 #8
That's who got him elected IronLionZion May 14 #15
we need blue hats. mopinko May 14 #4
Israel's not letting the UN on their soil. maxsolomon May 14 #60
once shit like this happens, it doesnt matter what bibi thinks. mopinko May 14 #65
Perhaps someone will accuse Biden of being a pro-Hamas antisemite Orrex May 14 #7
Hamas are killing civilians. Hamas are the target, not the civilians. Hamas has made the decision * Oopsie Daisy May 14 #10
Yeah, Israel has repeated that propaganda for decades Orrex May 14 #16
I don't get it. Beastly Boy May 14 #33
No, that's not even close to what they said. He said essentially, TeamProg May 14 #43
That sort of thing has happened in the US but was ruled unconstitutional IronLionZion May 14 #45
That's not what they wanted to be explained. Beastly Boy May 14 #66
Yes, I agree, to quote you and your POV: "I don't get it". That is correct. TeamProg May 14 #68
Hamas is composed of people living in Gaza. Voltaire2 May 14 #20
To quote The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, there are two kinds of people, my friend: Beastly Boy May 14 #29
so let's starve babies. TomDaisy May 14 #80
The key question ilovegamers43 May 15 #100
I'm guessing the babies are not Hamas. TomDaisy May 17 #108
Ahhh horseshit. Are aid trucks Hamas? WTF. Magoo48 May 14 #21
Hamas is vile, but this does not excuse the settlers attacking aide trucks. nt TBF May 14 #23
Nobody was excusing those attacks. My post was taking issue with the * Oopsie Daisy May 14 #26
Then Netanyahu should end his relentless campaign to kill civilians Orrex May 14 #34
Hamas is a legitimate target. When they hide among civilians, Hamas turns them into targets too. Oopsie Daisy May 14 #36
That's a nonsensical justification, and you are defending the slaughter of children Orrex May 14 #40
Your analogies are absurd and going around in circles. Oopsie Daisy May 14 #79
You are blaming Hamas for the children that Netanyahu slaughters Orrex May 14 #85
I'm blaming Hamas for the deaths of civilians that Hamas causes. Oopsie Daisy May 14 #87
Your position of pretend neutrality favors the aggressor Orrex May 16 #103
Who's "pretending to be neutral"? I've been clear: I'm in favor of Israel's actions in their effort to destroy Hamas. Oopsie Daisy May 16 #107
Message auto-removed Name removed May 15 #101
Sorry. Repeating a lie does not make it true. Oopsie Daisy May 15 #102
That is precisely what Israel is doing iemanja May 14 #82
I'm not justifying anything. I'm simply explaining the reality of how it is. Oopsie Daisy May 14 #84
Israel has chosen to invade Rafah iemanja May 14 #90
The objective is to destroy Hamas. These actions are in furtherance of the objective. Oopsie Daisy May 14 #93
Wash, rinse, repeat. Wash, rinse, repeat. Wash, rinse, repeat. TeamProg May 14 #39
Good for you. Oopsie Daisy May 14 #88
You were VERY quick to come back with that! TeamProg May 14 #89
Oh good, I'm glad you noticed. Oopsie Daisy May 14 #91
Are you sure that you are okay? Nothing wrong with you? TeamProg May 14 #92
I'm perfectly fine. Why do you ask? Oopsie Daisy May 15 #97
You don't blow up the bank with the hostages just so you can get the bank robbers. What is wrong with you? W T F May 14 #44
Right? Orrex May 14 #48
This is war, not a crime in progress Zeitghost May 14 #50
Why make this about me? Why insult me? Oopsie Daisy May 14 #81
RWers in Netanyahu's coalition have already said that IronLionZion May 14 #12
And I forgot "it's all Hamas' fault" Orrex May 14 #17
Yes, he does exactly what Hamas wants IronLionZion May 14 #19
It's so obvious when you think about it Orrex May 14 #22
Actually they bear a large responsibility for this crap. Netanyahu was on his way out when Hamas attacked Israel on JohnSJ May 14 #56
Nothing Hamas does or has done is justifiable Orrex May 14 #59
I don't think anyone here at DU approves of Netanyahu, whether they are JohnSJ May 14 #62
They may not explicitly approve, but they happily blame Hamas for every child Bibi kills Orrex May 14 #77
Well atreides1 May 15 #98
This is perhaps the most true statement in this thread. nt TeamProg May 14 #47
That's what usually happens when someone hyperbolizes - like you just did. maxsolomon May 14 #61
Oh, I'm sure that he hopes to kill a few Hamas terrorists along the way Orrex May 14 #75
You can put me on ignore any time. maxsolomon May 14 #83
I don't need your permission, but I don't think I will anyway Orrex May 14 #86
the truth is, Nethanyahu did fund Hamas, and was extremely incompetent in protecting the border TomDaisy May 14 #78
There can be no doubt that Israel's hard right wants all the land Martin Eden May 14 #9
Settlers in America used diseased blankets IronLionZion May 14 #11
1 documented case. maxsolomon May 14 #63
European settlers didn't need blankets to wipe out the existing population. All they had to do was sneeze on them. Most Martin68 May 14 #70
You can only be a settler in a colonial regime. Voltaire2 May 14 #13
I don't think the motivation is getting beachfront land. wnylib May 14 #14
There's some of both IronLionZion May 14 #18
Hamas has a branch in parts of the West Bank. wnylib May 14 #24
The settler violence has nothing to do with that IronLionZion May 14 #25
Ongoing settler violence from before 10/7 was wnylib May 14 #28
Hmm. It is ALL a part of one long war of both sides wanting to expand their land - or in the case of Palestinians - TeamProg May 14 #49
I suspect they also want Bettie May 14 #71
No - it's more than that (the beachfront just attracts the scum like Kushner who will profit ...) TBF May 14 #73
As they should sarisataka May 14 #27
Not how to win hearts and minds, Old Crank May 14 #30
Horrible underpants May 14 #31
They hate each other. It is war. What the fuck do you expect Flowers and candy? twodogsbarking May 14 #32
Definitely hate there as evidenced by the video erodriguez May 14 #35
I agree if you mean that the US should not be giving Israel weapons of war. nt TeamProg May 14 #51
Wow Chi67 May 14 #37
where... myohmy2 May 14 #38
I would ask what you are alluding to sarisataka May 14 #42
Put armed guards on the trucks Bayard May 14 #41
What will this outrage mean in actual policy or action? jalan48 May 14 #46
Yes... what? AloeVera May 14 #67
Should stop calling them "settlers" sdfernando May 14 #52
What's wrong with illegal immigrants? Zeitghost May 14 #54
I only use that phrase as trigger words for the magats.... sdfernando May 14 #57
Gotcha Zeitghost May 14 #58
Of course I agree....I myself sdfernando May 14 #74
They absolutely should be condemned, and as long as Netanyahu is in power this crap will continue. JohnSJ May 14 #53
Bomb citizens, kill them, force them out of their homes, and then starve them. Novara May 14 #55
Israeli's tearful plea decrying Gaza aid convoy attacks LeftInTX May 14 #69
Settlers young kids joined in smashing food womanofthehills May 14 #76
disgusting! how many children do they need to starve before they are satisfied. TomDaisy May 14 #94
Bibi wants them all Traurigkeit May 14 #95
Too soon? Aussie105 May 15 #96
Hey, perhaps if we give Israel's blood crazed leaders a billion in arms that'll help? Magoo48 May 15 #99
US looking to sanction extremist Israelis for attacks on Gaza aid convoys, officials tell ToI LeftInTX May 16 #106
It has boiled down to a very simple situation. Aussie105 May 18 #109
Good god! Chi67 May 18 #110

atreides1

(16,139 posts)
5. The support isn't silent
Tue May 14, 2024, 07:54 AM
May 14

There have been several members of Netanyahu's cabinet who have been very verbal in their support for an end to the Palestinian "problem"!

And let's not forget the active participation of the Israeli police and military...actively looking the other way!

peppertree

(21,868 posts)
64. Two modern-day Milosevics
Tue May 14, 2024, 12:46 PM
May 14


"Can you believe it, Vlad? I Milosevic them worse than Milosevic, and spy on the Americans like a son-of-a-bitch - and all their congresscritters can agree on, is throwing me more money!"

"What a country."

Traurigkeit

(699 posts)
72. plus people in U.S. sending cash
Tue May 14, 2024, 02:09 PM
May 14

LeftInTX (25,808 posts)

7. Apparently you can donate to them from the US
Reply to Mossfern (Reply #6)
Mon May 13, 2024, 08:38 PM


https://www.jgive.com/new/en/usd/donation-targets/122060/about

Who do I report this to???
This website should be blocked in the US.

tornado34jh

(1,013 posts)
3. That is why I have been harshly critical of the Israeli government
Tue May 14, 2024, 07:27 AM
May 14

Who do you think these settlers voted for? What they really want is to claim Palestinian land as their own. If these settlers are attacking an humanitarian convoy, how does that make them any better? I should expect that from ISIS and Hamas. There is an ulterior motive, and Hamas is a diversion. I think the Israeli government by Netanyahu plays a big role into why it is such a mess. Besides, we know Netanyahu has unclean hands when it comes to Hamas, he had been propping them up for years, especially in his second stint as PM.

Lonestarblue

(10,322 posts)
6. Netanyahu is just like Trump, encouraging the worst and most violent behavior from the right wing.
Tue May 14, 2024, 07:58 AM
May 14

As with MAGA, they believe that their wishes are all that matter and no one else has any rights. Netanyahu encourages this behavior because he wants all Palestinians gone, whether in death or forced to leave for other countries. The Israeli settlers are nothing but terrorists.

tornado34jh

(1,013 posts)
8. Then you wonder why the world sees the US and Israel negatively
Tue May 14, 2024, 08:22 AM
May 14

Stuff like this. That is not a good look if we are supporting Netanyahu. Look, the reality is, the whole settler thing has been going on for a long time, long before the rise of Hamas. Again, it is one thing if you want to defeat Hamas, but I feel there is an ulterior motive from this government. If Netanyahu really wanted to get rid of Hamas, he could have done that long ago. He was PM from 2009-2021. That's a lot of time he could have done that.

IronLionZion

(45,760 posts)
15. That's who got him elected
Tue May 14, 2024, 08:45 AM
May 14

if any of the far right parties in Netanyahu's coalition pull out because they don't like some compromise, that triggers a new election. Netanyahu won't be elected again, and he goes to prison for corruption.

mopinko

(70,538 posts)
4. we need blue hats.
Tue May 14, 2024, 07:44 AM
May 14

i have no problem w american troops going over there and making sure this aid gets where it’s going. but it’s not my call.
but a un force, w soldiers from other me countries, needs to b stood up.
NOW!

maxsolomon

(33,516 posts)
60. Israel's not letting the UN on their soil.
Tue May 14, 2024, 12:32 PM
May 14

Netanyahu's going to have to reign in these fanatics. TBD if Biden has any hammer that would persuade him to do so.

mopinko

(70,538 posts)
65. once shit like this happens, it doesnt matter what bibi thinks.
Tue May 14, 2024, 12:51 PM
May 14

he knows he’s going to the hague. it’s a matter of when.
stop the blue hats, grab your toothbrush, bibi.
i think joe calls for new elections any day now. he wont b alone.

Orrex

(63,340 posts)
7. Perhaps someone will accuse Biden of being a pro-Hamas antisemite
Tue May 14, 2024, 08:16 AM
May 14

That’s what usually happens when someone here dares to criticize Netanyahu’s relentless campaign to kill civilians.

Oopsie Daisy

(2,978 posts)
10. Hamas are killing civilians. Hamas are the target, not the civilians. Hamas has made the decision *
Tue May 14, 2024, 08:27 AM
May 14

* to intentionally hide among them, using them has human shields. Hamas has "dehumanized" them and by hiding among civilians, Hamas has made them targets that will be killed and injured in the process of destroying Hamas. Israel does not have a "relentless campaign to kill civilians." The "campaign" is to destroy Hamas. When civilians die, that is the fault of Hamas.

Orrex

(63,340 posts)
16. Yeah, Israel has repeated that propaganda for decades
Tue May 14, 2024, 08:50 AM
May 14

Last edited Tue May 14, 2024, 10:33 AM - Edit history (1)

Explain how that justifies the targeting of an aid convoy.

If a murderer took refuge in your basement and held you & your family hostage, would the cops be justiifed in bombing your house to rubble simply because the killer “hid among you?”

We should demand better from our heavily funded Democratic ally.

And perhaps you should call the Whitehouse to share your insights about Hamas’ tactics.

Beastly Boy

(9,677 posts)
33. I don't get it.
Tue May 14, 2024, 10:15 AM
May 14

You want someone to explain to you how Hamas dehumanizing civilians and using them as human shields justifies jewish radical right wingers targeting an aid convoy?

It doesn't.

Just as Jewish radical right wingers targeting an aid convoy doesn't justify Hamas dehumanizing civilians and using them as human shields.

Why would you think there is connection between the two that conceivably justifies one or the other?

TeamProg

(6,494 posts)
43. No, that's not even close to what they said. He said essentially,
Tue May 14, 2024, 11:10 AM
May 14

that no reasonable law enforcement would bomb a house where a murder suspect took a family hostage

IMO, Israel has no such qualms because it’s all part of the ethnic cleansing process. It now appears obvious that the “accidental” killing of innocent Palestinians is just a bonus killing that can be attributed to “war is war”.

History will not be kind.



Beastly Boy

(9,677 posts)
66. That's not what they wanted to be explained.
Tue May 14, 2024, 01:06 PM
May 14

The demand for an explanation is crystal clear:

Explain how that justifies the targeting of an aid convoy.

("that" being the subject of the previous post)

This is a quote, not an interpretation of what "He said essentially".

Not even close to "no reasonable law enforcement would bomb a house where a murder suspect took a family hostage" You are saying this, not the poster I replied to.

Voltaire2

(13,473 posts)
20. Hamas is composed of people living in Gaza.
Tue May 14, 2024, 09:01 AM
May 14

They are not separate entities. Hamas is not hiding among them, they are them.

This nonsense was the same logic we used to justify murdering millions in Southeast Asia during that genocidal counter insurgency.

Beastly Boy

(9,677 posts)
29. To quote The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, there are two kinds of people, my friend:
Tue May 14, 2024, 09:55 AM
May 14

those with loaded guns, and those who dig.

Those with loaded guns are a separate entity. Making no distinctions between them and Gazan civilians is nonsense.

Oopsie Daisy

(2,978 posts)
26. Nobody was excusing those attacks. My post was taking issue with the *
Tue May 14, 2024, 09:44 AM
May 14

* false claim that Israel has a "relentless campaign to kill civilians" --- that's all I was trying to say.

Orrex

(63,340 posts)
34. Then Netanyahu should end his relentless campaign to kill civilians
Tue May 14, 2024, 10:20 AM
May 14

And he and his propagandists should drop the bullshit about “hiding among civilians.”

If indeed they’re hiding among civilians, or if they’re “using children as human shields,” as is so often claimed, then sorry, but you don’t get to bomb the neighborhood flat.

Or, if you deliberately choose to bomb the neighborhood flat, then you don’t get to claim that “Hamas made us do it.”

Indiscriminately bombing a civilian town in hope of killing some number of Hamas terrorists who may or may not be there is, in fact, morally identical to deliberately killing civilians.

And spare us any nonsense about “adequate warning.” Adequate warning to do what? To go where? On what roads? With what vehicles?

Give us some numbers. How many thousands of Palestinian children can be justifiably slaughtered in an effort to kill how many Hamas operatives?



Hamas is a terrorist regime that should be wiped out to its last member. Regardless, Netanyahu’s actions are morally indefensible.

Oopsie Daisy

(2,978 posts)
36. Hamas is a legitimate target. When they hide among civilians, Hamas turns them into targets too.
Tue May 14, 2024, 10:36 AM
May 14

I blame Hamas and only Hamas.

Orrex

(63,340 posts)
40. That's a nonsensical justification, and you are defending the slaughter of children
Tue May 14, 2024, 11:06 AM
May 14

You didn’t answer the earlier question: if a murderer takes refuge in your basement, holding your family hostage, can the cops destroy the house and everyone in it on the grounds that “it’s all the murderer’s fault?”

I notice that you simply don’t answer questions, and instead you parrot Netanyahu’s authoritarian talking points. Why?

Netanyahu is making a deliberate choice to murder children. Why do his apologists claim that his heavily funded Democratic ally has no agency or accountability in this?

Oopsie Daisy

(2,978 posts)
79. Your analogies are absurd and going around in circles.
Tue May 14, 2024, 04:24 PM
May 14

Actually, I'm not defending anything, I'm simply telling you where the blame belongs. War sucks. People die. Hamas is making sure that as many civilians die as they possibly can. Blame Hamas. Hamas is "making a deliberate choice to 'murder children'" by making sure that they are in harm's way.

Orrex

(63,340 posts)
85. You are blaming Hamas for the children that Netanyahu slaughters
Tue May 14, 2024, 05:56 PM
May 14

If that’s not your position, then please clarify.

If that is your position, then you are defending the slaughter of children while falsely pretending to pursue some higher logical position.

And the analogy was spot on: the presence of criminals or terrorists does not justify the killing of civilians. If you imagine otherwise, then perhaps you can explain the morality of executing an attack guaranteed to kill more civilians than enemies, and then perhaps you can explain why you find it abominable when Hamas does it but acceptable when Netanyahu does it, and does it it vastly greater numbers.

Maybe you haven’t been reading your posts, but by dubiously shifting the blame from Netanyahu to Hamas, you are absolutely defending him. At least have the integrity to admit it.

Oopsie Daisy

(2,978 posts)
87. I'm blaming Hamas for the deaths of civilians that Hamas causes.
Tue May 14, 2024, 06:13 PM
May 14

I'm not defending the deaths of civilians. I'm not taking a "position". What I am doing is telling you why it's happening, and who actually deserves the blame.

When someone chooses to personally attack me by insinuating that I lack "integrity" (or that I lack "morality" or that I'm lying and making "false" claims) will not accomplish anything. By resorting to such things (ie: personal attacks and veiled insults) it only indicates that someone is arguing from a position of weakness or overwrought emotion. I can assure everyone that such passive aggressive tactics do not work on me.

Orrex

(63,340 posts)
103. Your position of pretend neutrality favors the aggressor
Thu May 16, 2024, 01:18 PM
May 16

You are not in fact telling anyone *why* it is happening. Instead, you are parroting Netanyahu’s propaganda as a false justification for a lethal military campaign against civilians, all while ludicrously claiming not to have a position. Which is hardly the moral flex that you seem to imagine.

And attacking your integrity, such as it is, is unconnected to my easily verified assertion that Netanyahu is deliberately killing civilians.

It is possible, in short, to fault one person’s lack of integrity while also criticizing another person’s campaign of slaughter.

Oopsie Daisy

(2,978 posts)
107. Who's "pretending to be neutral"? I've been clear: I'm in favor of Israel's actions in their effort to destroy Hamas.
Thu May 16, 2024, 03:16 PM
May 16

And, I'm against Hamas. I've clearly expressed my disgust at how Hamas is deliberately hiding among civilians and putting civilians in harm's way for propaganda purposes. They even lie and exaggerate the number of casualties. It's just awful that so many civilians are dying because of what Hamas is doing. Hamas is using them as cannon fodder. Hamas is slaughtering civilians to protect themselves. It's disgusting.

It is important to note that the deliberate targeting of civilians by terrorists is widely condemned as a violation of international humanitarian law. Intentionally causing civilian deaths or using civilians as shields is considered a war crime.

It is worth pointing out that the responsibility for civilian casualties resulting from the use of human shields lies primarily the terrorist organization. The military force seeking to eliminate the threat should make efforts to minimize harm to civilians but cannot be held responsible for the actions of the terrorists. Nor can they just "call it a draw" and give Hamas breathing room to reconstitute and grow again.

In the end, Hamas will be destroyed. More civilians will die. And Hamas will be to blame.

And... OMG: 🤣😂 @ the "integrity" insults and other 🪤🪱🪝

Response to Oopsie Daisy (Reply #79)

Oopsie Daisy

(2,978 posts)
102. Sorry. Repeating a lie does not make it true.
Wed May 15, 2024, 11:18 AM
May 15

The choice is being made by Hamas when they use civilians as human shields. In wars, people die. Hamas is doing everything possible to make certain that as many civilians die. They do not care. Hamas is to blame. This is Hamas' doing. Blame Hamas.

iemanja

(53,151 posts)
82. That is precisely what Israel is doing
Tue May 14, 2024, 04:58 PM
May 14

Your claim that civilian Palestinians are by nature terrorists is without a moral or factual basis.
That your reaction to these events is to justify them says everything.

Oopsie Daisy

(2,978 posts)
84. I'm not justifying anything. I'm simply explaining the reality of how it is.
Tue May 14, 2024, 05:27 PM
May 14

I understand it's an emotional subject, but the fact remains that Hamas is to blame. They are the ones who put civilian lives at risk. They know what will happen, but they do not care. They likely WANT the civilians to be in danger... not only because they are cowards, but because they can use it for propaganda.

iemanja

(53,151 posts)
90. Israel has chosen to invade Rafah
Tue May 14, 2024, 06:30 PM
May 14

Not Hamas. The Israeli settlers have chosen to attack a food convoy. That is not Hamas' decision. Pretending otherwise is ridiculous. The Israeli government and its citizens are responsible for its own actions, just as Hamas is responsible for its actions. When you blame everything on Hamas, you are indeed justifying everything Israel does, as though they have no agency over their own behavior. That is far from reality.

Oopsie Daisy

(2,978 posts)
93. The objective is to destroy Hamas. These actions are in furtherance of the objective.
Tue May 14, 2024, 06:39 PM
May 14
>> The Israeli settlers have chosen to attack a food convoy. That is not Hamas' decision.
Correct. It was a shitty thing to do. I guess they're resentful of the violence that happened on October 6. I certainly understand their anger. Murder, rape and sexual mutilation are horrible... but I guess they didn't have "agency over their own behavior" or something because, according to some, they were just "freedom fighters", or something.

>> Pretending otherwise is ridiculous.
What's actually "ridiculous" is for anyone to "pretend" that I've claimed otherwise. Stop it.

W T F

(1,151 posts)
44. You don't blow up the bank with the hostages just so you can get the bank robbers. What is wrong with you?
Tue May 14, 2024, 11:16 AM
May 14

Orrex

(63,340 posts)
48. Right?
Tue May 14, 2024, 11:48 AM
May 14

Literally every civilian killed by cops can be explained away by the same logic.

“Sure, we shot an innocent man while he was asleep in his bed, but it was the murderer’s fault. Next question.”

Zeitghost

(3,917 posts)
50. This is war, not a crime in progress
Tue May 14, 2024, 11:54 AM
May 14

We killed Germans to get rid of Hitler and the Nazis, we killed Japanese to stop Tojo and the Japanese military.

It is tragic, but it falls on the evil, murderous, genocidal regimes intent on terrorizing their neighbors and the world.

IronLionZion

(45,760 posts)
12. RWers in Netanyahu's coalition have already said that
Tue May 14, 2024, 08:42 AM
May 14

since Biden restricted the size of weapons given to Israel in the latest shipment. They want bigger bombs. Our tax dollars at work.

Orrex

(63,340 posts)
17. And I forgot "it's all Hamas' fault"
Tue May 14, 2024, 08:51 AM
May 14

Silly me. Because apparently Netanyahu can only act as a Hamas stooge, unable to make decisions or be accountable for his own actions.

IronLionZion

(45,760 posts)
19. Yes, he does exactly what Hamas wants
Tue May 14, 2024, 08:55 AM
May 14

literally, Hamas did the 10/7 attacks to get this type of response from the far right.

JohnSJ

(92,618 posts)
56. Actually they bear a large responsibility for this crap. Netanyahu was on his way out when Hamas attacked Israel on
Tue May 14, 2024, 12:05 PM
May 14

October 7.

What Hamas did by breaking that ceasefire and killing, mutilating, and raping 1200 civilians is only empower the Israeli right wing coalition.

There have been so many missed opportunities where peace could have been achieved, but the poor leadership from both the Israelis and Palestinians have perpetuated this blood. feud.



Orrex

(63,340 posts)
59. Nothing Hamas does or has done is justifiable
Tue May 14, 2024, 12:22 PM
May 14

But too many here are using that to give Netanyahu a moral blank check for his military campaign and how he conducts it.

Hamas is a terrorist regime that must be wiped out to its last member. Israel is a very well-funded Democracy and strong US ally. It is reasonable to hold the two to different standards of action.

JohnSJ

(92,618 posts)
62. I don't think anyone here at DU approves of Netanyahu, whether they are
Tue May 14, 2024, 12:41 PM
May 14

pro Israel or not. He has been skirting the Israeli law for quite a few years, and this war has allowed him to avoid prosecution.

Orrex

(63,340 posts)
77. They may not explicitly approve, but they happily blame Hamas for every child Bibi kills
Tue May 14, 2024, 04:22 PM
May 14

And that willingness to cover for him, rather than saying “yes, he’s murdering children,” is essentially the same as approving of him.

atreides1

(16,139 posts)
98. Well
Wed May 15, 2024, 08:02 AM
May 15

Just because people here at DU aren't calling for parades or waving flags, does not mean that some of them they don't approve of what Netanyahu is doing.

Throughout history there have always been those who do not show public support for atrocities, but it doesn't mean that they didn't agree with what was being done, and in some cases took advantage where they could.

Remember, not all Germans were Nazis...



maxsolomon

(33,516 posts)
61. That's what usually happens when someone hyperbolizes - like you just did.
Tue May 14, 2024, 12:36 PM
May 14

"Relentless campaign to kill civilians".

This war is filled with gray areas, and some of DU prefers to only see black or white.

"That is all", as so many DUers say.

Orrex

(63,340 posts)
75. Oh, I'm sure that he hopes to kill a few Hamas terrorists along the way
Tue May 14, 2024, 04:09 PM
May 14

Here’s a hint: if you clutch your pearls over word choice while children are starving to death and being bombed as part of Netanyahu’s relentless campaign, then your opinion can safely be ignored.

Orrex

(63,340 posts)
86. I don't need your permission, but I don't think I will anyway
Tue May 14, 2024, 06:00 PM
May 14

On an entirely unrelated note, it’s useful to be able to cite examples when saying “can you believe the bullshit ways that people are defending Netanyahu?”

TomDaisy

(2,014 posts)
78. the truth is, Nethanyahu did fund Hamas, and was extremely incompetent in protecting the border
Tue May 14, 2024, 04:24 PM
May 14

while he played culture war games to try to cling to power

Martin Eden

(12,906 posts)
9. There can be no doubt that Israel's hard right wants all the land
Tue May 14, 2024, 08:23 AM
May 14

Including Gaza and the West Bank. They are playing the long game for a unified country in which Jews will always be a supermajority.

They believe, based on what's happened since the establishment of Israel, they can never have internal peace and security as long as Palestinians can hold onto the hope of having their own nation state within the borders or produce organizations like Hamas intent on destroying the Jewish state.

The only way to solve the "Palestinian problem"is by death or diaspora. In other words, ethnic cleansing.

IronLionZion

(45,760 posts)
11. Settlers in America used diseased blankets
Tue May 14, 2024, 08:37 AM
May 14

RW Israeli settlers want that beachfront land. They want desperate starving Palestinians to leave or die. Netanyahu's coalition is full of these types. Any compromise or compassion is met with accusations of supporting Hamas. If even one RW party pulls out of his government, they have to call elections and he won't win again. He goes straight to prison.

"But Hamas..."

Martin68

(23,157 posts)
70. European settlers didn't need blankets to wipe out the existing population. All they had to do was sneeze on them. Most
Tue May 14, 2024, 01:39 PM
May 14

Native Americans died of the flu or strains of the common cold to which the natives had no immunological resistance. It happened very quickly as the pandemic spread.

wnylib

(21,967 posts)
14. I don't think the motivation is getting beachfront land.
Tue May 14, 2024, 08:44 AM
May 14

What they are doing is viciously cruel, both the settlers and the police. They claim that there should be no aid to Palestinians until after Hamas releases the hostages. Based on that, their motivation looks like rage over the 10/7 attacks.

The constant fighting in the region for 75 years has produced polarized extremes on both sides.

IronLionZion

(45,760 posts)
18. There's some of both
Tue May 14, 2024, 08:53 AM
May 14

they want to punish the Palestinians and they want the land. The settlers are in West Bank, while Hamas is in Gaza. Yet settlers have been abusing and killing Palestinians in the West Bank who had nothing to do with 10/7 or Hamas.

wnylib

(21,967 posts)
24. Hamas has a branch in parts of the West Bank.
Tue May 14, 2024, 09:35 AM
May 14

Hezbollah has an extensive network there.

Hezbollah has been using drone attacks into Israel in this war in support of Hamas.


wnylib

(21,967 posts)
28. Ongoing settler violence from before 10/7 was
Tue May 14, 2024, 09:49 AM
May 14

obviously not connected to the current war. It goes back to the 1967 war and disputes over UN Resolution 242.

But the current attacks by settlers on the Palestinian aid trucks is connected to the current war and hostages.

TeamProg

(6,494 posts)
49. Hmm. It is ALL a part of one long war of both sides wanting to expand their land - or in the case of Palestinians -
Tue May 14, 2024, 11:49 AM
May 14

getting their land back.

Lot's of bad history in the ME since 1948 with Israel playing the 'chaos agent' role perfectly as directed by England and the U.S.. Just ask Henry Kissinger.

TBF

(32,214 posts)
73. No - it's more than that (the beachfront just attracts the scum like Kushner who will profit ...)
Tue May 14, 2024, 02:49 PM
May 14

they want Israel to have all the land and for it to be a religious Jewish state. By "they" I mean right-wing Israelis.

Netanyahu has taken it up a notch with the killing, I think they would be just as happy if Palestinians simply left the country (and yes I know how ridiculous that sounds given how most are living in poverty, and esp. how they are trying to survive now). I really do think that is the goal of Likud, the settlers, etc.

erodriguez

(671 posts)
35. Definitely hate there as evidenced by the video
Tue May 14, 2024, 10:36 AM
May 14

of children and young adults destroying the food.

Lots of Israelis are lost to hate. Lots of Palestinians too.

The US should not be involved in this war at all.

myohmy2

(3,275 posts)
38. where...
Tue May 14, 2024, 10:53 AM
May 14

...are the Israeli authorities...?

...complicit...?

...when this is over Israel is going to find itself in a might big hole it dug for itself...

...what's going on in Gaza it the kind of tragedy that last for generations along with war crime tribunals and epic movie reminders...

...and there is one undisputed fact to be reckoned with, there are many more Arabs than Israelis...

...put it this way, if tomorrow Japan had a reason and opportunity to nuke us, do you think they would...?

...time and technology waits for no one...

sarisataka

(19,113 posts)
42. I would ask what you are alluding to
Tue May 14, 2024, 11:10 AM
May 14
...and there is one undisputed fact to be reckoned with, there are many more Arabs than Israelis...

...put it this way, if tomorrow Japan had a reason and opportunity to nuke us, do you think they would...?


but I would rather give you the benefit of the doubt than have my thoughts confirmed.

AloeVera

(1,126 posts)
67. Yes... what?
Tue May 14, 2024, 01:09 PM
May 14

Last edited Tue May 14, 2024, 07:18 PM - Edit history (1)

While the bigger outrage of the planned and systematic impeding/slowing down of aid by the government of Israel is ignored.

The two are inter-related, that needs to be raised.

sdfernando

(4,980 posts)
52. Should stop calling them "settlers"
Tue May 14, 2024, 11:55 AM
May 14

Call them what they are...."illegal immigrants"....or usurpers.....or how about invaders????

Zeitghost

(3,917 posts)
54. What's wrong with illegal immigrants?
Tue May 14, 2024, 12:03 PM
May 14

Invaders sounds exactly like the Magats when they refer to our immigrant communities.

sdfernando

(4,980 posts)
57. I only use that phrase as trigger words for the magats....
Tue May 14, 2024, 12:12 PM
May 14

since they likely support the so called "settlers" labeling them as something they despise would drive them nuts.

Zeitghost

(3,917 posts)
58. Gotcha
Tue May 14, 2024, 12:16 PM
May 14

Then you agree; immigrant communities need to be supported, whether they are here in the US, Europe or the West Bank.

sdfernando

(4,980 posts)
74. Of course I agree....I myself
Tue May 14, 2024, 02:58 PM
May 14

was born in Munich Germany and I have naturalization papers although both parents were natural born U.S. citizens. And, no I was not adopted but I was born on foreign soil.

Novara

(5,913 posts)
55. Bomb citizens, kill them, force them out of their homes, and then starve them.
Tue May 14, 2024, 12:05 PM
May 14

That's Israel's playbook.

Hamas is stupid. They gave Israel the excuse to do this. They had to know they can't win this. But I suspect a two-state solution isn't their motivation. I believe they attacked Israel in the first place out of pure revenge. But that begs the question: why did they attack in the first place? The answer points to Israel and its treatment of Palestinians.

It's a mess and it won't end well (or maybe at all). But you don't starve people and then bomb relief supplies. Not when you are lying to the world that this is legitimate military action. It is not.

LeftInTX

(26,032 posts)
106. US looking to sanction extremist Israelis for attacks on Gaza aid convoys, officials tell ToI
Thu May 16, 2024, 02:49 PM
May 16

The Biden administration is looking into sanctioning the extremist Israelis involved in the recent spate of attacks targeting humanitarian aid convoys for Gaza civilians, two US officials tell The Times of Israel.

The sanctions would be levied through the executive order signed by US President Joe Biden in February, which allowed the Treasury Department to designate Israelis involved in violent activity in the West Bank, the officials say.

The attacks in the West Bank largely started last month when Israel agreed to expand the aid route from Jordan to ensure that more assistance gets into Gaza.

The far-right group Tzav 9 has led many of the protests in both the West Bank and within Israel proper, aiming to block aid trucks from reaching Gaza. The group argues that the assistance is being co-opted by Hamas — a charge the US denies. Israel has also made a point in recent months of stressing the amount of aid it is allowing into Gaza, indicating that it, too, doesn’t believe the assistance is for Hamas.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/us-looking-to-sanction-extremist-israelis-for-attacks-on-gaza-aid-convoys-officials-tell-toi/

Aussie105

(5,581 posts)
109. It has boiled down to a very simple situation.
Sat May 18, 2024, 01:18 AM
May 18

Israelis are the Good Guys.

Anyone not Israeli in the region, anyone within range of a missile, bomb or IDF sniper, is a Bad Guy. Any gender, any age, not Israeli? Bad Guy!

See how easy it is? That 'war' label really simplifies things!

(Sarcasm may, or may not be involved in this post.)




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