Police: Ga. woman, 65, gunned down after her car, motorized wheelchair bump at gas station

[shawn703]

Source: Washington Post

ATLANTA — A chance encounter at a Georgia gas station left a 65-year-old woman dead and a 73-year-old man facing a murder charge after authorities say the woman’s car and his motorized wheelchair bumped and he opened fire, police said Wednesday.

Linda Hunnicutt, 65, had just pulled into the gas station in Macon shortly after 1 p.m. Tuesday and stepped out of her Buick Lucerne when the man pulled a gun and fatally shot her, city police spokeswoman Jami Gaudet said.

“The whole encounter, I can tell you, was very brief,” Gaudet said. “Everybody is just reeling from this.”

Hunnicutt had driven onto the gas pump bay when the two vehicles made contact, police say.


Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/police-ga-woman-65-gunned-down-after-her-car-bumps-motorized-wheelchair-at-gas-station/2012/12/05/1f75e9f2-3f0c-11e2-8a5c-473797be602c_story.html

---

Just sad...

[WilliamPitt]

1. Good thing he had a gun.

Otherwise this might have been a tragedy.

[shawn703]

2. But guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Because this murder was entirely possible without the firearm.

[Shadowflash]

17. +3,000

[Liberal_in_LA]

56. people with guns kill people without guns

[Heather MC]

63. Now is not the time to discuss gun control, another tragedy has happened with gun.

we need to wait for a week when no one dies because of a gun to discuss gun control.

[rhett o rick]

103. I hope you are being sarcastic. Good luck whating for a time when no ones has been gunned down to

discuss this issue.

[eppur_se_muova]

121. Rest assured it's sarcasm.

We hear that line (without the sarcasm) from the NRA after every mass shooting.

[rhett o rick]

122. Good. I thought so but I am a little slow sometimes. nm

[Heather MC]

161. Hey Rick

Tragically I was being sarcastic.

[rhett o rick]

162. Thanks. I often miss sarcasm. And I agree it is tragic. nm

[roguevalley]

140. Fuck Bob Costas for making this possible.

I feel for the families of both. This is a tragedy for all of us who try and live sane lives. It is that simple. You can leave your house to do a mundane thing and then you are dead. Kiss and hug your family and loved ones. Make sure someone gets your pets. You never know.

[sofa king]

206. Well, he could have backed over her, repeatedly.

And about that--did he have a gasoline-powered wheelchair, or was he just, you know, wandering among traffic in an electric wheelchair, with a gun?

[sinkingfeeling]

3. +1

[ellisonz]

5. +2

[Javaman]

33. And now queue the argument by the gun crowd that knives kill too.

The issue I have with guns is this (this will be my first and last statement on this topic, because I usually choose not to wade into the gun cesspool), they are immediate.

[Squinch]

46. Or my favorite: "If that guy in the motorized wheelchair wanted hard enough to kill that woman,

do you really think stricter gun laws would have stopped him?" Well, um, yes. I do.

OR: If only she had her own gun, she could have defended herself.

OR: Russia forbids guns and their gun deaths are higher than ours. (This is based on how we all know that Russia is such a law abiding place. No crazy ass Russian mafia there!)

OR: If we limit guns, only the criminals in the motorized wheelchairs will have them.


The pea brained-ness and predictability is staggering.

But let's no one hold our breaths waiting for any of this to get through. We all know it won't.

[BainsBane]

55. I heard every single one of those defenses yesterday

In the Costas thread. The Russia one is especially popular.

[alarimer]

143. I want to know how she could have defended herself AFTER she'd already been shot?

(It's a rhetorical question).

See, the tragedy of guns. So many people die just because some asshole loses his temper.

And I'm sure that's what this was. She hit him accidentally and, instead of dealing rationally with it (although I understand being pissed off about it), he grabs his conveniently located gun and shoots her. This why gun nuts drive me fucking nuts. How many people have to die in a stupid rage incident before we wake up to the fact people do not need to carry guns all the time, because crap like this WILL happen.

[Squinch]

144. And obviously, in cases like these rage incidents, if there was no gun nearby, no one would die.

But you can't convince the gun people of this.

[samsingh]

178. it sounds like you have some common sense

don't expect that from the
.
slowly
.
analytical
.
gun
.
supporters
.
....except when they perceive a remote control being placed on any gun.

[Demobrat]

50. The problem I have with guns is that they serve NO purpose

other than killing from a distance. Sure knives and bats can be used to kill too, but in order to use them the aggressor has to get up close and personal. And then there's the fact that knives and bats have a purpose other than killing. That said, I believe the guns nuts have won. I try to keep myself safe from gun violence by having no guns in my life, and having nothing to do with people who have guns. (I live in a city where there is no legitimate reason to own a gun. Wild animals are not a problem here). Of course I could be walking down the street in Oakland, CA, where I work, and get hit by a stray bullet at any time, but at least my killer won't be someone I invited into my life.

[Ken Burch]

120. It's a bad sign if you can't outrun a guy on a mobility scooter with a knife.

(in fact, that probably means YOU qualify for one, too).

[fascisthunter]

183. or gas

[barbtries]

41. i was going to post the same thing.

it is good to know that there are others who see it the same way.

[fascisthunter]

182. Spot on Will

Ever go to "Friar Tuck's"? Turns out Teddy K used to go there a lot in the 80's. My brother witnessed it and liked because he was always advocating for the regular folk, even when he had a drink.

[NV Whino]

4. Man, don't piss off old people

But one does wonder what the electric wheel chair was doing at the gas station.

[slackmaster]

6. That's a great question.

Was he profiling and stalking, or just out to get beer or cigarettes?

[NOLALady]

15. He lived in an apartment

behind the gas station.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

78. Cigarettes? Soda? Lottery Ticket?

People go to the gas station for all kinds of things.

[NV Whino]

96. Yes, but one tends to stay out of the car lanes

If one is in a wheel chair, motorized or not.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

101. In smaller gas stations

that's not always possible. No matter how you slice it, it's a tragedy for both families.

[OrwellwasRight]

200. I'm not totally sure how it is tragic for the family of the murderer. nt.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

203. Do you think people enjoy being related to a murderer? n/t

[OrwellwasRight]

204. No, of course not. But I don't feel particularly sorry for them either.

I think the family of the dead woman deserves sympathy. The murderer and his family don't. His family should spend time feeling sorry for the victim, not asking for my sympathy. That's just me though.

Now, if the murdered paid his debt to society and after being released from prison wanted to secure the right to vote and to gainful employment, I'm happy to work for that. Don't get me wrong, I am for an economically and socially just society. But sympathy for the overt and deliberate act of taking the life of another? That I don't give.

Call me judgmental. I am. I admit it.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

207. I feel sorry for any grandchildren he may have...

chances are they don't have much of anything. I don't know that any member of his family asked for sympathy.

[OrwellwasRight]

208. If they have nothing now,

they had nothing before. No change. No reason to feel sorry for them because their grandfather chooses to shoot people first and ask questions later. If you are concerned about their financial circumstances, don't waste your time feeling sorry for them. Do something about it.

[Sunlei]

189. I live in a small town, no sidewalks, no bus and no 'walking distance grocery store.

We have some elders who make their way to the closest gas station by wheelchair for basic groceries. What's a real shame is that corner store charges high prices for basic items like, milk,bread, eggs. $5.00 for a little pack of shreaded cheese where its 150ish at a grocery store. They take food stamps of course.

It's dangerous to be alone like that. I could understand an elder or anyone to carry a weapon in fear of robbery. This crime is an auto accident(by the driver) and an armed road rage. I don't think the age or the wheelchair has anything to do with it.

[struggle4progress]

172. It can be fuggin hard to get around town in a wheelchair -- and near impossible

to do so without entering space sometimes used by cars

Drivers, moreover, are rather often as unpleasant to the wheelchair user as to the bicyclist: some drivers really dislike sharing space

[patrice]

7. Enter SYG advocates in 5, 4, 3, . . .

[GreenStormCloud]

18. This has nothing to do with SYG.

He won't be able to prove the three elements of self-defense (Ability, Opportunity, Intent on the part of the woman), although he may try insanity or deminished capacity for himself.

SYG only deals not having to retreat. You still have to prove lawful self-defense, even with SYG.

Lots of folks here don't understand the law.

[patrice]

38. . . . 2, 1, 0. I was thinking about the fact that she got out of her vehicle and . . . ? at minimum,

we know that ? = exchanged somekind of words with the killer.

[GreenStormCloud]

43. Still has nothing to do with SYG.

SYG comes into play only AFTER self-defense is shown.

[BainsBane]

48. And loud music

According to a Fla defense attorney.

[GreenStormCloud]

51. Also nothing to do with SYG.

Based on the media reports he doesn't have the needed elements of self-defense. The police searched the kid's vehicle and did not find any guns. The kid didn't get out of the vehicle so he can't claim a physical threat.

Unless you first have the elements of self-defense, SYG won't help at all.

[BainsBane]

53. I hope you're right

Though the attorney has suggested she/ he will invoke SYG.

[GreenStormCloud]

99. The attorney is trying the spaghetti defense.

Throw enough at the wall and hope something sticks.

[tclambert]

79. Stand Your Ground? But he was in a wheelchair.

For this joke I am truly sorry. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

80. it needed gas.

[slackmaster]

85. That's not as far-fetched as it might sound

http://motivechair.com/

[Recursion]

83. Huh? He's facing a murder charge (nt)

[skrempi313]

8. ABP: Always Be Packing

It Helps To Calm Your Rage!!!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

16. An armed society is a polite society. It's true. I heard it in the gungeon!

[Squinch]

47. Well, it's a quieter society than it might be otherwise. Because so many are dead.

[dixiegrrrrl]

61. "so many are dead"

Hey!
Opens the job market, then , right?

by god, I think we are on to something here, that just might avoid that pesky fiscal cliff.

[Squinch]

107. People just don't know how to look at the sliver lining of the gun culture like you and I do.

[dixiegrrrrl]

129. Colbert taught me new ways of looking at things.

[ReRe]

9. Gives new meaning to "Road Rage"

[CBGLuthier]

10. Don't blame the gun he could have gotten out of that chair and beat her to death

Assuming no one intervened during the 20 minutes it would take him to do so, of course.

Fucking guns.

[OrwellwasRight]

201. +1

[DallasNE]

11. Is Georgia A "Stand Your Ground" State?

The story reads that the guy in the wheelchair bumped into the car in a gas bay and when the woman got out of her car and yelled at him that he shot her. He could claim that he felt threatened and was standing his ground.

No, I am not justifying this shooting. Far from it. Rather, I am pointing out the absurdity of the stand your ground defense. It always seems to be the people that started the problem that also are the one that is the shooter. Now what could possibly be wrong with that picture?

[CatWoman]

20. yes it is

http://www.gpb.org/news/2012/05/07/georgias-stand-your-ground-law

[wellst0nev0ter]

142. For White People

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/11/when_stand_your_ground_fails/

[GreenStormCloud]

21. No, he can't claim SYG.

It would help if you actually knew the law. Before SYG, one must make a claim of self-defense. To do that you must be able to show that the person you shot actually did endanger you. You must show that they had Means, Opportunity, and Intent as demonstrated by an overt act. If you can't show all three, then you are in serious danger of a long time in jail.

[Kelvin Mace]

24. If I had to guess

he will claim he thought she was going to run him over.

1) Means: her car

2) Opportunity: the car was right there

3) Intent: the car moved

[GreenStormCloud]

28. She was stopped. He bumped into her. She got out of her car.

Unless there are some really big unreported circumstances, that isn't enough for self-defense.

[Kelvin Mace]

82. I am just saying what he will claim

Now, whether the DA will buy it is another story. The trouble with these laws is that how closely the criteria you outlined is considered is more a function of the color of the victim than actual fact. If she is black and he is white, chances are he'll skate.

[Bacchus4.0]

92. nope, its not that situation n/t

s

[GreenStormCloud]

100. He is black, I don't know about her. N/T

[slackmaster]

102. He's black, and I can't help but wonder if he wouldn't be sitting in jail now if he was white

[GreenStormCloud]

105. The criminal justice system is no longer all white.

There are many black cops, lawyers, and judges. Also Asian and Latin too, and any other group I may have left out.

[Hoyt]

127. You obviously have never been to Macon, Georgia.

[GreenStormCloud]

131. I have been to every major city in the U.S....

...and most of the minor ones. Yep, been to Macon, GA. Guess what? Blacks vote there. The 1960s are over with.

[Hoyt]

132. We'll I lived there for 3 long years, and you are wrong about this too.

[GreenStormCloud]

134. Are you saying that blacks can't vote in Macon, GA? N/T

[Kelvin Mace]

147. What color is the victim?

[slackmaster]

149. Here's a video of her family speaking out

http://www.13wmaz.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=2014266595001

[Bacchus4.0]

157. she's white n/t

s

[The Magistrate]

26. More To the Point, Sir, It Might Help If People With Gun In hand Knew The Law

People may not be aware of all the elements of a legitimate claim, or think these are present when in fact they are not.

It remains the case that the passage of these laws encourages people to shoot, in the belief the law is on their side, whether it actually is or not.

[GreenStormCloud]

35. Did he have a permit to carry?

If not, then he was breaking the law by having a gun on him. Further, we don't know if he had a criminal record as the paper doesn't say.

In most states people with CCWs have to attend classes that teach what is and isn't legal self-defense, and pass an exam. In those states it is extremely rare for a permitted person to wrongfully shoot someone. Texas has over half a million Conceald Handgun Licensees and averages about one murder conviction per year for CHL holders. In Texas ALL shootings, even obviously justified ones, still have to go before a grand jury so they are investigated. I doubt that other states are much different.

Personally, I doubt that the shooter had a CCW. It will be interesting to find out.

BTW - I appreciate the way that your posts are always polite.

[The Magistrate]

36. News Reports Are Silent On the Question So far, Sir

Which has no bearing on the question of whether 'stand your ground' laws are correctly understood by people who take gun in hand in altercations, or on the question of whether such laws encourage people to use lethal force in situations where it is not appropriate, in sincere belief their conduct is lawful.

[GreenStormCloud]

111. It has complete bearing.

CCWers, for the most part, have been trained in that part of the law. They enjoy their privledge and are careful to guard it least they lose it. They will use SYG properly.

People who carry illegally are criminals and don't care about anybody's law, except their own. SYG means nothing to them. The mere fact that the gun is illegally possessed taints the claim of self-defense.

[The Magistrate]

126. They Are Not 'Trained' In It, Sir

They are given a brief quiz after a cursory reading; to claim this means all or even most, will have a solid appreciation of what actually constitutes legal grounds for self-defense will not bear the weight of a soap bubble.

[GreenStormCloud]

133. Seems to be working in Texas.

We have over half a million Concealed Handgun Licensees, and only about one a year is convicted of murder. The rest of the shootings are legal. So I would say that the person who screws it up is very rare. That suggests that they learned something in the classes that they took.

The concept is exceedingly simple. In one paragraph you explained it quite well.

[FredStembottom]

74. Thanks, Mag.

I keep trying to tease out the difference between SYG and simple self defense concepts.... If SYG needs all the elements of a self defense claim then what is SYG?

Is just feel-good iconography, like a tattoo? Men are manlier with Passage of SYG?

[The Magistrate]

84. Laws Vary By State, Sir, So this Will Be General

Florida's, which became notorious, is a little different than most.

Basically, the idea is like this. Common Law, while granting the right of self defense, expected violence in self-defense to be a last resort. If you could reasonably evade the confrontation without resorting to violence, you were supposed to do so, and if you used violence when you could have secured your safety without doing so, then you had a problem with the authorities. A modern illustration might be if you are in a car at a stop-light, and someone comes up to the passenger window with a clenched fist and utters a verbal threat, in a most convincing manner. Getting out of your door with a baseball bat and a cry of 'you and what army!' would fail the traditional test as a response, since you could well have simply pressed the accelerator and left him swathed in exhaust, and so whatever you did could be viewed as a criminal act, rather than as self-defense. The 'stand your ground' laws remove this condition. Under them, you do not have to exhaust reasonable options short of violence; even if you could have departed instead, you can still use force legally (providing of course you are facing an actual threat).

Florida's law adds a sort of extra layer, in which if someone claims self-defense, the state has to show it was not. This is a reverse of the general traditional doctrine, in which self-defense is an affirmative defense, one the defendant must prove.

[FredStembottom]

90. Wow.

Borders on "shoot first. Ask questions later".

Very dangerous thinking.... With a strong odor of adolescent fantasy wafting through it.

[The Magistrate]

97. The Basic Legal Definition Remains the Same, Though, Sir

It has to be a reasonable fear for life or limb. And in fact, in situations of real threat, you do not have much time for careful consideration --- in fact, you generally have no time at all; you act or you never get the opportunity to do so. There have certainly been instances when zealous or idiotic prosecutors have abused the former standard, and prosecuted people who really, most people would agree, did not have reasonable options short of violence in the face of imminent threat. No matter where the line is drawn, someone, somewhere, will likely end up on the wrong side of it wrongly; this is a vexed matter, that gets more intricate the closer one looks. I am not a great opponent of these laws in general, though I do dislike the Florida wrinkle intensely, and some of the license certain state's laws give for using deadly force in defense of property.

I do agree that there is 'a strong odor of adolescent fantasy' in the argument for these laws, and the attachment to possession and carrying of fire-arms 'self-defense'.

[FredStembottom]

109. Yes. You may be aware of a case here in Minnesota...

..... from Thanksgiving Day. 2 teens robbing houses for prescription drugs were, apparently, surprised, shot and then shot further when they didn't die obligingly enough for the homeowner.
I can only wonder how the coming trial of the homeowner might be complicated by SYG laws (which we have managed to avoid in Minnesota so far).
As things stand, it's pretty clear he will be convicted of "executions".

SYG seems to me, to be an attempt to form real-life into the neat, uncomplicated scenarios of the Western movies of our(?) youth. And nevermind that no one under the age of 40 has even seen a Western, the instant-justice fantasy from those films and TV shows lives on in a thousand different video games.

[GreenStormCloud]

115. SYG would have no effect on that case.

SYG applies only outside the home. His killings were inside, against intruders. Under Castle Doctrine he is allowed to shoot the intruders, but once they are down and no longer a threat he must give them first aid while calling an ambulance. Nowhere does any state law authorize him to execute.

If someone breaks in you can shoot until they are no longer a threat, then you must stop.

[FredStembottom]

118. I hope so.

I really do.

[Trunk Monkey]

173. Re:Nowhere does any state law authorize him to execute.

true, however no state law requires that he render aid or specifically call an ambulance either

[GreenStormCloud]

174. True, but it looks great in court if you do.

And I think a very prompt call to the police is legally necessary, but I'm not a lawyer.

[AndyTiedye]

130. "Trespassers Will be Shot, Survivors Will be Shot Again"

Did he have one of those signs? Maybe he thought that would absolve him.

[Starboard Tack]

93. SYG relies on the killer's version of how it went down, barring evidence to the contrary.

[Bacchus4.0]

95. so does any self-defense claim that results in a homicide n/t

s

[GreenStormCloud]

104. No, it does not.

All SYG does is remove the requirement to retreat. It is the self-defense claim that relies on the killer's version of events. Background investigation of the dead person will tend to confirm or deny the killer's version. If you claim tat you were about to be mugged, and the dead guy has multiple convictions of strongarm robbery, you will likely be belived. But if you claim that and the dead guy is a highly respected, peaceful humanitarian, then you are in trouble. But in either case, it isn't the SYG but the claim of self-defense that is able touse only one side's testimony.

This has been explained to you many times. Why to you persist in saying otherwise?

[Starboard Tack]

108. Basically means the same thing.

If there is no DTR, then it is a free pass to the killer (at least in the minds of several killers), because the killer only has to demonstrate that he was in fear for his life, even though he made no effort to reduce that fear by retreating, or avoiding the situation.
Using your example, it would be easy for a vigilante type to pursue guys with criminal records, confront them and shoot them, claiming SYG. All they need to avoid are witnesses.

[GreenStormCloud]

110. Except that people who have CCWs jjust aren't that type.

We have had shall-issue and SYG for a long time now. Problems have been very few, although one case is extremely high-profile.

People with the type of personality that you describe tend to get in trouble with the law early and become criminals.

[Bacchus4.0]

73. sure he can, it doesn't mean the State or the jury will accept that

just like the Dunn case a claim of SYG isn't a get out of jail free card.

[GreenStormCloud]

98. True. N/T

[rhett o rick]

123. If he believed she was trying to harm him with her car, bingo-bango she is dead.

Cops do it all the time.

[GreenStormCloud]

136. Her car was parked. She was not in the car.

There are very few details in the media. More information is really needed.

[rhett o rick]

137. The story says their vehicles bumped. All I am saying is that he can claim

Stand Your Ground if he thought he was in danger from her.

[GreenStormCloud]

145. Only AFTER he claims self-defense.

And in GA, as in all states except FL, self-defense is an affirmative defense. That means that the shooter has to prove that he had to shoot. SYG only means that he didn't have to retreat, and nothing more.

[pnwmom]

202. He can always CLAIM it. He just probably won't win it. n/t

[onehandle]

27. Yes, my home state is chock full of gun lunatics. nt

[BainsBane]

45. Stand your ground doesn't apply

Because he's black. SYG is only for white people who kill black teenagers and men. Geesh. Don't you know anything about the law?

[fascisthunter]

184. I'm sure it influenced his decision to pull the trigger

but the gun nuts will claim it doesn't, not even possible.

[Kingofalldems]

12. We all need to carry

So if we get into a squabble with someone we can just shoot them.

[Squinch]

49. No way around that! Your logic is flawless!

Because people should know better than to squabble with me. Squabbles suck and make me mad. Pow.

[slackmaster]

68. It's odd how the only people who actually make remarks like that are gun control advocates

Of course they're being sarcastic, but it's very consistent who says such things and who does not.

[neverforget]

179. NRA: "More guns could have saved Javon Belcher's girlfriend"

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/12/07/1298791/nra-perkins/

Or More guns could have saved "insert name here"

[slackmaster]

180. That's Wayne LaPierre, not a real person

You had to go all the way to the farthest extreme to find an example of someone saying that.

You won't see anyone on DU making a similar remark, other than sarcastically.

[neverforget]

181. yeah just the NRA

[Unknown Beatle]

13. I wonder what the NRA has to say about this?

What excuses will they come up with?

[TreasonousBastard]

14. If she called him one of those...

bad racist words, would that make it OK?




(here's where the sarcasm thingie goes in case you really need it.)

[jsr]

19. WTF

[question everything]

22. Locking, moving to the gun forum

No?

[onehandle]

30. Fuck no. Bob Costas revived this to the mainstream.

The casual carrying of guns is a national security problem.

[Hoyt]

34. Exactly. It is time to discuss it thoroughly.

[Laurian]

42. I posted this story earlier today in GD and it was locked.

I was surprised that it was locked, but I didn't fight it.

[The Magistrate]

44. Different Hosts, Ma'am

The one in GD who locked yours is a 'Team NRA' stalwart down in the RKBA group, and tends to shut things down when the home team seems to be getting the short end of the exchange....

[Hassin Bin Sober]

59. Yep. And Team NRA squeals like stuck pigs with their hoofs on the alert button....

.... when one of these 'anti-gun' stories shows up on DU.

[apocalypsehow]

139. +1. n/t.

[slackmaster]

65. GD has an explicit rule prohibiting "gun" posts, in the Statement of Purpose

LBN has no such rule, but it does require the subject line to match the originally published headline. Your post in GD spun a news item as an "OMYGOD GUNZ!" item.

The Gun Control & RKBA group was created for the purpose of keeping emotionally charged "gun" discussions out of GD. I believe if you had simply posted the headline as published, that it would not have been locked in GD.

[The Magistrate]

66. 'Gun Culture', Sir, is Quite In the News Just Now

Since we both know who locked it, we can make reasonable surmises as to why it was locked, and mine is that the lock had nothing to do with SOP, but rather with the poor display the locking host's side of the matter was making in the thread.

[slackmaster]

67. What is and is not "big news" WRT the GD SoP is certainly a matter of opinion

Please remember WHY there is a Gungeon.

[The Magistrate]

69. Apparently, Sir, It is there as a 'Safe Haven' For NRA Subscribers

That seems to be pretty much how it is run, anyway...

[slackmaster]

71. It's for Democrats who wish to discuss the issues specified in the SoP for the group

Be they NRA subscribers or not.

[The Magistrate]

72. Do Not Try and Teach a Grandfather To Crack Eggs, Sir

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there always is."

[question everything]

117. Thank you for stepping into this discussion

Last edited Wed Dec 5, 2012, 10:03 PM - Edit history (1)

I admit, I had no idea what kind of a reaction my post - that started this mini discussion and that I posted as a tongue in cheek - would generate. I was wondering whether it would be deleted and me banned..

On edit - the same individual blocked a post of mine several days ago. About how Republican state law makers are split between the rights of a business owners who do not want guns in cars parking on their property, and rights to bear arms. At least in the case above s/he spelled the name of the alternative forum. In my case s/he used acronym and I had no idea what they meant.

[GreenStormCloud]

155. We also have numerous Gungeon regulars whor are gun control advocates.

Their views range from slightly more control to desiring a total ban of all guns. It is hardly a safe haven. There have been three who have been locked out due to uncivility.

[Recursion]

89. The murder rate is at a 40-year low

It's hard for me to take seriously claims that we're in some sort of state of emergency. Whatever we're doing, we're doing it right.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

94. It's at an all time high...

For Linda Hunnicutt.

[LanternWaste]

125. "When one man dies it is a tragedy, when thousands die it's statistics'".

"When one man dies it is a tragedy, when thousands die it's statistics'".

[onehandle]

135. Nuclear war is at a 67 year low.

And yet I can't pick up a suitcase nuke at Walmart.

WTF?

[Hoyt]

151. What might it be with less guns? What will it be in future after latest wave of arming up? n/t

[tiny elvis]

209. trade stats with me. i cannot find your claim in numbers

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

In the United States, annual firearm homicides total

2009: 9,146
2008: 9,484
2007: 10,129
2006: 10,225
2005: 10,158
2004: 9,385
2003: 9,659
2002: 9,369
2001: 8,890
1999: 8,259
1998: 9,257

In the United States, the annual rate of firearm homicide per 100,000 population is

2009: 2.98
2008: 3.12
2007: 3.36
2006: 3.42
2005: 3.43
2004: 3.20
2003: 3.37
2002: 3.25
2001: 3.12
1999: 2.97
1998: 3.37
1993: 7.07

In the United States, annual firearm suicides total

2005: 17,002
2001: 16,869

In the United States, the annual rate of firearm suicide per 100,000 population is

2005: 5.75
2001: 5.74
1993: 7.35

In the United States, annual unintentional shooting deaths total

2005: 789
2001: 802

In the United States, the annual rate of unknown-cause shooting deaths per 100,000 population is

2003: 0.11
2001: 0.02
1993: 0.22

[classof56]

23. Might she have shouted something like, "Oh, my, I'm so sorry. Are you okay?"

Then jumped out of her car to rush to his side? That's what this 74-year-old person would have done, but then I don't live in a SYG state and never pack anything more than a pocket comb.

Truly, this is such a sad and tragic event, I can hardly stand to think about it. WTF!

[onehandle]

25. Guns are handy. nt

[csziggy]

29. Who ran into who?

The head line says the wheelchair and car 'bumped' and the photo captions says, "Police said in a statement that Reeves’ motorized wheelchair bumped into 65-year-old Linda Hunnicutt’s car Tuesday" but it's not clear what happened.

Did he run into her car and she yelled at him? Or did she run her car into him, making him fear for his life?

Badly written story leaves a lot unclear!

[Javaman]

37. Does it matter?

he shot her because she yelled.

[abelenkpe]

91. He shot her because he's a reactionary lunatic with a gun. nt

[Javaman]

113. I thought my statement inferred that but thanks for saying that. :)

cheers!

[csziggy]

141. If he were impaired enough to run into her car, that would be a factor

In his prosecution. If she ran into him, causing him to fear for his life, then that would be of benefit to his defense.

Either way, using a gun in the situation was almost definitely unreasonable but understanding all the factors rather than jumping to conclusions helps us avoid this kind of insanity in the future.

[Javaman]

146. He shot her.

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to say that is a gross display of negligence. I'm not jumping to conclusions, just using common sense.

[AAO]

31. This seems to be happening about twice a week now.

These people should be put in prison for life until it stops.

[Recursion]

87. The murder rate is at a 40-year low

So if it is happening often now, it was happening much more often in the 80s and 90s.

[AAO]

159. It's the killing over such little things in the news lately.

It's like the value of life is being degraded.

[Recursion]

160. That was the line 30 years ago, too

"The kids are killing each other for shoes", etc.

[TwilightGardener]

32. Pointless and ridiculous.

[HockeyMom]

39. Grandpa was afraid for his life by GRANDMA!!!!!

Sick, sick, sick GUN Culture.

[JohnStJohn]

40. I am a firearms owner

but I am here to tell you that the insane lust that many in this nation have concerning firearms and vigilante justice flat pisses me off. And because I am a firearms owner I can also say with great certainty that there needs to be a reckoning when it comes to the laws in this nation as to who can or cannot own them. Personally I feel that people should have to undergo psyche evals just like any legally sworn law enforcement officer before they are ever allowed to posses a weapon as deadly as a firearm. Let me also add that continuing, yearly education on the safe use and storage of firearms should be mandatory for any and all firearms owners as well.

[Paladin]

75. Well Said. Thank You. (nt)

[Milliesmom]

52. another death..................

About 46 people are killed a day in the US according to crime stats, I wonder how many from guns.

[southernyankeebelle]

54. I guess it's another one of those stand your ground situations.

[Kaleva]

57. Don't get into a verbal sparring match with anyone. Not even with someone in a wheelchair.

One never knows who has a gun on them.

[LanternWaste]

58. I can only imagine that the victim

I can only imagine that the victim, Linda Hunnicutt received succor and comfort in those last minutes before death from the knowledge that gun violence in America is at an all time low...

[The Magistrate]

64. Not to Mention, Sir, Knowing Essential Civil Rights And Liberties of the People Were Being Preserved

She must have been so exhilarated by the sacrifice she was making for her country....

[HockeyMom]

60. Why I will NEVER get out of my car in Florida

if I ever get into an accident. I will call the cops on my cell, keep my windows rolled up, and wait for them to get there. With all the stupid SYG laws in this state, you cannot know that some totally INSANE moran, even an Old Coot, will just try to to get you into an argument and pull out a gun and shoot you claiming YOU were going to attack them.

I have said this to my gun collecting, CCW holding husband, and you know what he said? "You are probably right in that".

[slackmaster]

70. I live in the gun control paradise of California where concealed weapons permits are not available

And I never get out of my car either, unless I really have to.

[Chorophyll]

62. Another good citizen standing his ground.

If only everyone in a five-mile radius of this gas station had been armed, this whole thing could have been avoided. Right? Right?

[GreenStormCloud]

106. See post 18. N/T

[Crunchy Frog]

76. Good thing the encounter was "brief".

Otherwise there might have been real trouble.

Just shows how important it is to be armed these days.

[Shankapotomus]

77. Insane

The guy was obviously out looking for a confrontation. If this wasn't so tragic just the inability of the perpetrator to assess the situation and come up with a sane and civilized proportional response such as, excuse me, is laughable. Now it's just sad on one side and pathetic on the other.

[Milliesmom]

81. Another child shoots himself in police car!

Another child shoots himself while handcuffed behind his back and in a patrol car?? How many will it take?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/05/15702942-police-handcuffed-high-school-student-shoots-self-in-back-of-police-car?lite

[maxsolomon]

86. Here's what I predict we'll find out

Last edited Wed Dec 5, 2012, 08:44 PM - Edit history (1)

73 year old has "anger issues" brought on by dementia/years of substance abuse. Has always had a handgun. Has waved it around before to threaten people, and the cops knew about him.

[slackmaster]

88. I must say that all sounds very plausible

He may even have discharged the weapon negligently, i.e. without meaning to. (I wouldn't call that an accident.)

[GreenStormCloud]

112. Add to that:

He did not have a CCW, therefore it was illegal for him to have the gun at hand.

[Nay]

150. Was his gun concealed? If he was wearing it on his hip in plain sight, in most places that's legal,

right?

[PavePusher]

154. No, in Georgia, you need a licence to open carry.

See by-state map here: http://my.opencarry.org/?page_id=103

[Nay]

156. Ah. Thanks for the info! nt

[PavePusher]

158. Any time. n/t

[janx]

190. I LIVE IN A GOLD STAR OPEN CARRY STATE!!!!

YEAH!!!!

my state gets a gold star!!!!

[PavePusher]

191. Good. It's too bad that every state isn't in that catagory. n/t

[Cali_Democrat]

114. Another gun nut, another tragedy. n/t

[tabasco]

116. Enjoy your new life in prison, asshole.

Time to start throwing away the key with these cowardly gun kooks.

[Ken Burch]

119. If that old guy had a lawn, those kids would damn well get off of it!

Jesus!

[JI7]

124. i really think a lot of these GUn people are hoping for any chance to shoot and kill someone

[Hoyt]

128. They sure spend lot of time training, learning laws, etc., to "take advantage of an opportunity."

Heck, there have been threads in the gungeon on "best guns" to shoot people fleeing a natural disaster; best loads; and worse.

The callousness and disregard for society are disgusting.

[PavePusher]

171. Citation to this "best guns" to shoot people fleeing a natural disaster" or retract, please. n/t

[Trunk Monkey]

187. There have also been thrads in the gungeon advocatign shooting a 14 in the back

with a machine gun.

Who do you suppose posted that Hoyt?

[Hoyt]

188. TMonkey, that was a thread about the racist Randy Weaver and his armed 14 yo, inbred son sent out

with a friend who shot a US Marshal that was giving daddy weaver time to walk out of his racist compound under a federal warrant for selling guns to the Ayran Nation. Surprises me that folks who carry guns and applaud shooting unarmed teenagers while stealing a CD player would have a problem with a Federal Marshal shooting an armed racist, who had just participated in the murder of a Federal agent. But then, I find gun lovers are often callous, and of course bigoted.

None of this would have happened if daddy weaver -- a racist and gun trafficker -- had not hidden behind his armed, racist kids and wife. In any event, you -- like a previous poster under another name who always made the same comments -- need to find better heroes than these racist, criminal gun traffickers hiding out in an Idaho compound.

Finally, I suggest not spouting gun crud from stormfront on DU.

I'll make similar posts to anyone attempting to glorify the weaver family and their racist, gun trafficking ways. You should be ashamed.

[PavePusher]

193. "14 yo, inbred son"

Your vileness never ceases to amaze me.

folks who carry guns and applaud shooting unarmed teenagers while stealing a CD player

Citation, please.

would have a problem with a Federal Marshal shooting an armed racist, who had just participated in the murder of a Federal agent.

Except for the small hindrance that the courts didn't convict anyone of murder. In fact, the government was forced to pay a settlement for wrongful deaths and injuries.

But then, I find gun lovers are often callous, and of course bigoted.

Your projection is obvious.

hidden behind his armed, racist kids and wife

He didn't, and even if he had, it wouldn't be sufficient justification to shoot anyone.

need to find better heroes

No-one here has ever held up Weaver as a hero (that's a vile lie you've told), merely as someone who was wronged by the government. And when that happens, political beliefs are irrelevent. Or do you object to the ACLU as well?

criminal gun traffickers

Except that he actually wasn't.

I suggest not spouting gun crud from stormfront

No-one has.


And the fact that you get support for comments that would earn instant PPR status anywhere else on D.U. boggles the mind.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge#The_siege_and_controversy

[Hoyt]

196. You and poster above sure do have disgusting heroes.

I'm amazed your support of such racist, gun traffickers survives.

[PavePusher]

198. For the last time:

I do not hold Weaver as a hero. No-one on D.U. does, to my knowledge. If you have evidence otherwise, post it here or cease lying.

Aknowledging government wrong-doing is not equivalent to considering someone a hero.

[apocalypsehow]

138. The answer according to our "pro gun progressives"* is...moooaarrrr guns!!!

Yes, that's right, ladies & gentlemen: you see, if the woman in this story had simply been packing too, they could have had a "fast draw" and may the one with the fastest trigger finger win! Or, at the very least, she' would've been able to shoot back and plug him on her way down! Two dead instead of just one! It's guaranteed by the 2nd amendment! Freedum rulz!!!!11




*( )

[slackmaster]

148. Not one person on this forum has suggested anything of the kind

[Hoyt]

152. Those in gun culture promote/support lax laws which ultimate lead to more guns.

And many in the gun culture acquire boat loads of guns for some strange reason.

I would venture that almost every gun used by a criminal starts out as someone's legally purchased gun. Then it was stolen; misplaced; sold to anyone with a fist-full of cash; the so-called "responsible" gun owner became irresponsible; etc.

[slackmaster]

153. The "guns behave just like gas molecules" fallacy

Distributing themselves evenly to occupy all available space at a uniform density.

[Fumesucker]

199. Take a look at Craigslist sometime

The euphemisms and circumlocutions for guns that are being sold/bartered are many and often inventive and I'm not even looking for guns.

I agree with the previous poster that the vast majority of guns enter the marketplace through legal means and at some point become diverted to less formal methods of distribution.

[Doctor_J]

164. Aw, geez

are you really going to maintain that most in the gun culture are not of the "more guns, less crime" frame of mind??? Can we at least keep the discussion reality-based?

[slackmaster]

165. "More Guns, Less Crime" is a book by Professor John Lott. I've read it, and I'll bet you haven't.

I presume you have heard the old expression "Don't judge a book by its cover." That applies to this book.

http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Crime-Understanding/dp/0226493636

As to your vague generalization about "gun culture," I'll just say that you are parroting a stereotype with no real information to back it up.

[Paladin]

166. As If John Lott Has Any Credibility At This Point. (nt)

[Doctor_J]

167. You just veered off the track of this subthread

Apolocalypsenow said that the gun culture's answer to this tragedy is more guns. You claimed that no one believes that. I replied that your claim is preposterous, to which you pointed me to a book review.

[slackmaster]

169. I most certainly did NOT claim that no one believes that. See reply #148, in which I wrote...

"Not one person on this forum has suggested anything of the kind"

And I stand by my statement.

If I've told you once, I've told you SEVENTEEN QUADRILLION TIMES not to exaggerate so much.

[Doctor_J]

168. Here is one of the highly rated reviews from your link

4 of 5 people found the following review helpful

5.0 out of 5 stars It is just too Simple for Gun Control People to Understand January 16, 2010
By R. Montgomery

If the general public can protect itself criminals and the possibility of government tyranny like the impending ideas of the current congress and socialist Obama presidency are unlikely to succeed. (Of course now that I think of it, I suppose criminals and the current government in power have very much in common i.e. they both intend to unlawfully redistribute wealth at the expense of the unwilling victim)

This book just proves it is just too simple a principle for "Gun Control People to Understand". If you have a gun thugs and socialists think three times about killing you and taking your money and your liberty. If you are not armed then they just take your money, your life, and tax you and your children into oblivion.

This review is dedicated to Carole Stiller who leads the New Jersey chapter of the Million Mom March Against Fire Arms orgnization and who is an avid supporter of the Brady Gun Control Movement. When I found out she had been fetted by the New Jersey Government for her efforts I went out and bought another fire arm in her honor. She badly needs to read this book but I am sure it is "Just Too Simple" for her to understand. We are unfortunately surrounded by well intended citizens leading us to tyranny with the best of intentions

That's one of your compatriots speaking

[slackmaster]

170. And still YOU haven't read the book

But here you are commenting on it anyway.

[Doctor_J]

186. I also haven't read any of Limpballs books,

BecKKK's, Hannity's, or the Washington Times, or Reason Rag. I will leave the fascist propaganda to right wingers like you. The excerpt in my previous post tells me everything I need to know about it.

PLEASE stop calling yourself a Dem. It demeans the rest of us when those who agree with the quoted "book review" associate themselves with us.

[Doctor_J]

163. And the NRA continues to ensure that the US is a world laughingstock

When the union breaks apart the gun nuts can go with the teabaggers to GlenBeckistan. The "no tax" policy will mean there won't be any police, but since everyone's packing auto's there won't really be any need for police.

[jpak]

175. More dumbass gun play - and people defend this shit?

Why yes they do.

[samsingh]

176. again those guns in hands in times of intensity

[Scootaloo]

177. How fucking senseless

Both the story and 80% of the thread about it.

[fascisthunter]

185. SYG needs to be overturned

it's only a matter of time, but those monetarily invested in the gun industry will claim it has nothing to do with this case, nor the Zimmerman's case. I believe it does, and think it's a dangerously stupid law that only promotes the use and purchase of guns. It has nothing to do with safety.

[hack89]

192. What makes you think this case has anything to do with SYG?

isn't just as likely we have an old man with a history of mental health or substance abuse issues?

Why not wait until the facts are out?

[PavePusher]

194. Wassamattawidju?

Why do you want people to pass up a perfectly good opportunity for irrelevent immoral poutrage?

[RebelOne]

195. It has been reported on our local news station last week

that he has been charged with murder.

[onehandle]

205. SYG is gun nuts' stepping stone to full on Judge Dredd status.

They lust to be judge, jury, and executioner.

[struggle4progress]

197. ... Family and friends said they will remember Hunnicutt as full of life despite

suffering partial paralysis after an aneurysm at the age of 23. Despite her disability, people said it never stopped her from being caring, giving and having a positive outlook on life ...

Linda Hunnicutt Mourned By Hundreds At Funeral Service
Cristen Drummond
Story Created: Dec 8, 2012 at 7:34 PM EST
Story Updated: Dec 8, 2012 at 11:17 PM EST
http://www.newscentralga.com/news/local/Linda-Hunnicutt-Mourned-By-Hundreds-At-Funeral-Service-182688441.html