Geithner: Obama Administration Ready to Go Over the "Cliff"

[democrattotheend]

Last edited Wed Dec 5, 2012, 08:59 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: Political Wire/CNBC

Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner told CNBC that the Obama administration was prepared to dive off the fiscal cliff if Republicans do not agree to raise tax rates on the wealthy.

Said Geithner: "There's no prospect of an agreement that doesn't involve the rates going up on the top 2 percent of the wealthiest."


Read more: http://politicalwire.com/archives/2012/12/05/obama_administration_ready_to_go_over_fiscal_cliff.html

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There is a video that goes with it, but I am in class and can't watch.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. This is exactly where the Obama administration has to be.

They have to be willing to do this. NOTHING else will persuade the Republicans that we're serious. NOTHING.

Hang tough, Mr. President!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

2. Mr. President: THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE BEHIND YOU!!!!

[humbled_opinion]

35. Well Sure but to a point....

Look I don't mind the Cliff but only if our Democratic politicians immediately put forth a bill that gives the tax cut back to those making less than 250K. I can't afford a 5 percent tax increase on income.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

42. That's already happened. That bill passed the Senate earlier this year...

Of course the House is sitting on the legislation, which is why Nancy Pelosi issued a discharge petition just yesterday.

We as Democrats need to know these things.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

44. Nancy Pelosi has some responsibility for making this known to the general public.

She can hold a press conference.

In fact, she can hold a press conference every day for 15 minutes (or even less) until polls show that this is widely known by the general public.

[Rider3]

3. Let's GO!!!!!

[libodem]

4. Good

Because it is a Freaking bunch of BS, threats just like the debt ceiling hostage situation. They would be calling us seditious traitors if the situation were reversed.

[humbled_opinion]

36. Seriously?

Many Democratic politicians voted no to Bush debt ceiling increases they were called no such names. The situation does not need hyperbole.

[BVictor1]

5. Let's go sir...

Gun It!

[Vincardog]

6. 2 percent of the wealthiest? How about 20%.

[freshwest]

7. Going where the biggest thieves are... 1% and 2%. They owe this country big time.

Top 20% would be in the middle class, no?

I just don't know, that's a serious quesion.

[Hydra]

14. That's the sad reality

The 1% are even stealing from the millionaires(5-10%). The top 10-20% are the new middle class- doctors, lawyers, etc. Everyone under that is now the working class all the way down to dead of poverty.

I've often had people on DU defend the 1-2% saying that they have friends who are and they are Democrats.

Really? You know people with $100+ million in assets? The people demanding that we suffer really do live in a different world.

[humbled_opinion]

41. This is not about assets!

I don't hear anyone talking about a wealth tax, now that I would rally for...

This is about INCOME in a particular year some business has better years than others so the tax burden on business actually fluctuates quite frequently...

I believe the people you are thinking about i.e., the top 1 or 2 percent of the wealthy don't really have a personal income, their "INCOME" is mainly through investment, bonds, capital gains, etc. and the CEO's bonus' are not taxed as income either not to mention the fringe benfits...

The system is wholley unfair.

[bhikkhu]

58. By income, that's still where most of the money is:

[Vincardog]

22. The rate is going up 2% on the top, why not raise the rate 20% higher on them?

[freshwest]

34. Won't the increase on taxes on those above $250K tax them?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

45. That would be a good start.

[humbled_opinion]

48. I definately would agree

If they were taxed at 60 - 70 percent they would still have much weatlh, however, my fear is that many would somehow try to recoup that money by passing costs on to consumers or by laying off workers.

[Vincardog]

52. If they think paying 39% on every $ over 250,000 is onerous let them leave now.

[humbled_opinion]

53. I didn't say leave

I said somehow recoup their money.... If many of these are businesses that produce the products and services that we use than it just seems like simple logic that they would pass on any impacts on their profit margins including higher taxes, back down to the consumers.... or possibly downsize and layoff the #1 business expense being labor.

This is INCOME tax we are talking about and to pay INCOME tax you have to have INCOME.... The super rich Wall Street execs, CEO's etc have ways of moving, hiding money etc, some of their bonus payments are not considered income and many get paid in stock options which are only paid out at the capital gains rate when they sell them off... .

I am just saying it seems that the businesses would most likely pass on the tax increase to the consumers, so we wind up paying more and they continue to get wealthy....

[Vincardog]

54. So? Tax all income as regular income. Remove the SS cap and apply FICA to all income.

The RICH have been getting a free ride for much too long and it has to stop.

[humbled_opinion]

56. Yes

That actually is a very doable solution, but I would also add that SS and Medicare are means tested IOW if you are rich at retirement you don't qualify to receive SS or Meidcare... The cost savings by doing this would actually allow the enrollment benefit age to come down, giving more people the option to retire earlier...

It is a huge win, win...

[Vincardog]

57. means testing turn them into WELFARE, Everyone should get the same benefit. Everyone

should get Welfare.
A universals single payer system would have the power to lower the medical costs for everyone.
The SS age could and should be lowered and the premium raised to a decent livable amount.

[oldbanjo]

21. Where are you getting 20%,

someone making 200,000 is in the 2- 2.5% of the Country.

[Blunt477]

8. Spam deleted by gkhouston (MIR Team)

[MrSlayer]

9. Capital gains must go up, minimum corporate tax reinstalled.

The top rate must go up and we should tax Wall Street transactions. The Romneys of the world do not pay income tax so concentrating on that is foolish. Go after the worst perpetrators where they live.

[democrattotheend]

12. Agree about capital gains and stock transactions

Not sure about the corporate tax rate...I think raising corporate tax might hurt the job market, moreso than top income rates.

[Hydra]

18. Either the demand for the service or product is there or not

If someone refuses to offer it because it means paying taxes for services they use, someone else will fill in the void. That's how capitalism is supposed to work.

Higher taxes never stopped them form making a profit or hiring before.

[Vincardog]

24. Allowing the Mega-Corporaqtion to pay no tax (or even Negative tax rates) has created

how many jobs? I am tired of worrying about treating capital correctly.
Money is a thing it has no rights.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

46. Yea, but how many campaign contributions has it raised?

[MrSlayer]

25. We wouldn't be raising the corporate rate.

We'd just be making sure they all paid something. Clinton had a minimum corporate tax of 16%.

No more multibillion dollar refunds for Exxon and GE.

[humbled_opinion]

49. and what about

the middleclass IRA's and 401K's. Some older people planned for retirement and are on set budgets, a large captial gains tax increase would hurt them as they draw out their savings. There has to be some safety mechanisms not just a standard across the board increase.

[humbled_opinion]

55. You are right the Romneys do not pay INCOME tax

They are the worst abusers of the capital gains tax loophole... but increases in capital gains tax rates do hurt the small time investors.

[SamKnause]

10. Cliff

I have always wanted to try cliff diving.

Let's go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am sick of a teeny tiny minority of insane corrupt hacks holding this country hostage.

[Liberalynn]

17. Well said

[silverweb]

11. Do it!

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]

[rhett o rick]

13. Who is Cliff? nm

[Paulie]

15. Big red dog?

[rhett o rick]

26. Ohh. Now I get it. The Rethugs are afraid of this Cliff.

[Liberalynn]

16. Go Over

Keep the pressure up to tax the wealthy

and reject reducing COLA to SS and raising Medicare age which I heard on the local news was in the PUKES latest proposal.

http://www.13wham.com/news/political/story/Boehner-calls-for-Obama-response-on-cliff-offer/rnUdKdQkb0m0vGCJeyiWeA.cspx

[Skittles]

19. BE STILL MY BEATING HEART

[RussBLib]

20. I am, so far, quite encouraged that Obama is sticking by his guns

His second term could prove to be quite outstanding, and wouldn't that be a nice change of pace.

[AlexSatan]

43. Except

that he definitively (and with conviction) also said "It will not happen" about sequestration.

As a DoD, this obviously is an important issue to me.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

47. If you want to give others encouragement, name one time - just one - in which he has ever

done this.

[maindawg]

23. undo W

we need a new campain, undo W . every goddam fucking thing that piece of shit criminal did, must be undone.

[KansDem]

27. "Fasten your seat belts!"

[sheshe2]

28. Fastened!

[JDPriestly]

29. We have to tax those whose incomes have risen the most.

There was a time when working people were increasing their pay fairly regularly, so we gave tax cuts to wealthier people.

Since 1980, the incomes of the upper percents have gone up much faster than the incomes of other people. As a result, it makes sense to increase taxes of the wealthy.

It is the fairest thing to do.

Working people get their taxes taken out of their paychecks and have a hard time cheating the IRS. The wealthy use all kinds of crazy loopholes. They will take care of themselves. I believe that I am paraphrasing Thomas Jefferson when I say that.

[humbled_opinion]

50. It is a good sentiment but

The rich are not altruistic, they don't pay their fair share now, just because you levy a tax increase on them, do you really think they care? They hire people and pay them more than I make in 10 years just to protect their money and find them the best tax breaks possible. For the rich this is a zero sum game.... Now will they pass on any incurred costs to the consumers of their goods and services, most certainly stand by for increased costs coming your way real soon.

[undeterred]

30. Shitty headline.

[democrattotheend]

32. That was the headline on PoliticalWire

I was in class so I could not listen to what he actually said. Is the headline inaccurate/exaggerated?

[undeterred]

37. No criticism meant...

It just sounds like the Obama Administration is going over a cliff.

If you don't know what cliff they're talking about it sounds like the Obama Administration is in deep shit.

[democrattotheend]

39. Ok, gotcha

I will edit the title to put "cliff" in quotes. I assumed everyone on here knew what it meant, but you make a good point.

[jsr]

31. Just Do It. Let the Bush tax cuts expire.

[democrattotheend]

33. For everyone?

Do you actually want them to expire for everyone, or just prefer that outcome over a cut for the top 2%?

[high density]

38. Everyone would be fine

Our economy has thrived under these (and much) higher tax rates before.

[democrattotheend]

40. You really want to stick middle class families who are struggling with a $2,000 bill?

So many people are barely getting by...this is the last thing they or the economy as a whole need. You could make the case for lowering the threshold below $250,000, but raising taxes on everyone is a really bad idea. The economy is just starting to recover, and forcing people to cut back on spending again is a really bad idea.

Not to mention, if we go over the "cliff", lots of middle class families will get hit with the AMT, which has never been adjusted for inflation.

[humbled_opinion]

51. So what do I cut out

to pay for the tax increase? and if I am asking that question as someone on the very low end of middleclass than factor that and it will mean a huge economic hit.

You should rethink your everyone position, some people honestly can't afford these increases, remember its not just a 5 percent income tax increase it is the end of the payroll tax cut that Obama gave us also and the begining of mandatory buy in to health insurance, all of these costs but no increases in pay.....