Obama sees fiscal deal in a week if Republicans move on taxes

[TomCADem]

Source: Reuters

President Barack Obama told business leaders on Wednesday that a "fiscal cliff" deal was possible within about a week if Republicans compromise on taxes, and he warned lawmakers he would not engage in another debt ceiling standoff.

Obama, speaking to the Business Roundtable group of chief executives, said Republican leaders in Congress had to accept the reality that tax rates must rise on the wealthiest Americans to achieve a fiscal deal.

"We've some movement in the last several days among some Republicans, I think there's a recognition that maybe they can accept some rate increases as long as it's combined with serious entitlement reform and additional spending cuts," he said.

"If we can get the leadership on the Republican side to take that framework, acknowledge that reality, then the numbers actually aren't that far apart. Another way of putting this is we can probably solve this in about a week. It's not that tough," Obama said.



Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/05/us-usa-fiscal-obama-idUSBRE8B40UW20121205

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck

"as long as it's combined with serious entitlement reform"

FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck

[msongs]

2. obama and the other 1%ers can start by forfeiting their retirement/health care nt

[Ash_F]

8. Wouldn't the entitlement cuts still happen if we 'go off the cliff'?

I thought there were automatic cuts that would happen if no deal was made. Can someone give me a quick rundown if this is not the case?

[former9thward]

26. There would be about $500 billion in defense and $500 billion in non-defense cuts.

This would be over about 10 years. The administration has not specified exactly where the $500 billion in non-defense cuts would come from.

[Ash_F]

28. Thanks

I got this from wikipedia with no citations. Can anyone confirm?

"Some major programs, like Social Security, Medicaid, federal pay (including military pay and pensions), and veterans' benefits, are exempted from the spending cuts."

If so, then that doesn't sound so bad. Let's go off the cliff.

[former9thward]

33. Maybe so.

But if those are exempted there isn't too much left.

[Ash_F]

35. Weapons production, foreign bases and domestic agencies?

I hate to see the useful programs get cut but there are many not included in that list.

http://www.usa.gov/directory/federal/index.shtml

Most of them are not very big but they are numerous. I'd like to see what a pie chart of the budget looks like with those exempted areas separated from the rest.

[former9thward]

36. Weapons and foreign bases are covered in the Defense section.

Defense gets 50% of the cuts and domestic stuff gets 50%. So what is in the domestic section is the question which has not been answered.

[DreamGypsy]

15. but you don't feel strongly about this ...

as far as I can tell.

Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck
Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck
Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck
Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck
Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck
Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck
Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck
Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck
Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck
Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck
Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck
Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck
Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck
Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck

Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck

Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck


Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck


Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck



Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck



Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck





Oh FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck

[JoePhilly]

29. Make your Prediction Manny!!!!!

Is this the time when it happens.

And when it doesn't happen this time ... how long will you stay gone?

[MannyGoldstein]

39. I predicted that Obama would call for Social Security cuts in the 2011 SOTU. He did.

I predicted that he'd try to cut Social Security in the fully-fake debt ceiling crisis. He did.

I predicted that he'd try to cut it again after the election. Then I thought that prediction was totally wrong, and was pretty happy about it. But now...

Not bad, eh? Did you predict those things?

As to how the whole thing will end up... hard to tell. Predicting the outcome of a collision between predatory plutocrats and the basic human decency of hundreds of millions of Americans is like predicting a fight between Ditka and The Hurricane. Your skills may be better than mine in this regard.

[JoePhilly]

41. tick tick tick ... boom!

[JDPriestly]

3. Serious entitlement reform??????????????????

What does that mean? Turning seniors out on the streets?

Privatizing retirement savings?

That could be a huge problem for me an many other Democrats. We did not build the fiscal catastrophe. Republican administrations built that.

[plethoro]

13. The problem would be so huge it would snatch the recent Democratic victory

away almost instantly, and that would include a sure win in the next two elections. Plus, if Social Security is messed with people will be in the streets. If the government takes what I have earned after a lifetime of work, I will attempt to even the score...as will many others. If we are betrayed, all hell will break loose.

[chazunit]

4. Altering my social security

for the sake of some idiot reform is not my idea of compromise! I have paid into this fund for decades. I HAVE RECEIPTS TO PROVE IT! Tax the rich before we revolt and start chopping their heads off in the city square with guillotines! We are nearly at that point now.

[JoePhilly]

30. Social Security is not being discussed here. Its not part of the discussion.

[Stonepounder]

5. If 'serious entitlement reform' means messing with my Social Security

that I, like others, have paid into for 50 years, then I think there is a serious possibility that there would be a viable 3rd party movement on the horizon. The Republicans are on the way out, and the Democrats have moved so far to the right that they are actually the new Republicans. We need a liberal/progressive party.

You mess with my Social Security and my Medicare, you will see that Grey Panthers can be just as scary as the Black Panthers of the 60's!

[JoePhilly]

31. Social Security is not being discussed here. Its not part of the discussion.

[nlkennedy]

6. Come on Dems

Quit crying about this.

Mobilize and vote hard in 2014 and 2016..

Then make the changes that you need...

We gotta learn how to like the taste of sh*t once in a while.. I know it sucks, but tell me, how strong are you?

You'll make it..

[JusticeForAll]

10. huh?

What does your post mean?

[plethoro]

14. Strong enough to join with the 1.6 million in the Black Hills area ready to

fight this with all that we have. 2014 or 2016 won't matter if we are betrayed. And any SS action will be a betrayal just like the payroll tax cut, and will lead to future betrayals.

[jtuck004]

16. Just sit. Can you imagine 1.6 million people staging a sit down? If a few million

people get organized and decide to show up in D.C., I wouldn't miss that one for the world.

Can you imagine the sheer panic that would ensue among ALL the elected officials if 2 million unhappy people showed up, maybe in shifts with another 2 million? Right after they got a smaller paycheck for the first time that year? And just stood there glaring? Maybe holding tomatoes?




Don't call it a fight. Just say WE aren't working for the house of Goldman any more. And refuse to do so. If we could all put aside our differences long enough to just put our arms around the people that stand with us, no matter what the difference, it would break them. All.

They would either leave or figure out a way to make it better for the half of the households in this country that lives on $50,054 income, instead of those that make $245,000. A week..

I wonder how the Wobblies would do it today?

There's lots of problems, but I am not sure they would be worse than the crook-infested country we live in, the growth of poverty, the numbers of working poor, the millions of kids who have to go to friggin' school to get a decent meal. It would be horribly hard, but it's always harder being free. But freedom is worth any price, or so I hear.

[plethoro]

22. That would work initially, but not after the government got organized.

Consider all that is happening. First, we had Bush reversing Posse Comitatus (sp), then we had the NDAA Section 32 by Obama, now the drones multiplying like rabbits. There is little doubt we are in the nascent stages of inverse facism (corporate controlled type). The first step of the elimination of entitlements--done by a Democrat--was the payroll tax cut on Social Security. This was more symbolic than having any real force. And what did the people do? They acquiesced... And if they now do it a third time, that tax cut will never be reduced. The rich are going after it all. But there are people in the way. And if that first check is reduced as you say, others will join. But they will not be coming together to sit. Will Bill and Emma are feeding Billy week-old milk under a freeway overpass because Lloyd Blankfein (pubic enemy number one) was able to get entitlements cuts, the nothing-left-to-lose crowds will not be coming somewhere to sit. I appreciate your response. I am NOT with those who say Obama is making "serious entitlement reforms" statements to give himself wiggle room. We should know shortly what will happen as more initial steps in the entitlement redo, but, for me, buddy; I didn't crawl under houses through rat-crap, dead dogs and termites for 40 years to have my social security stripped. My wife and I will stand and fight with the others unwilling to live like serfs. I think an example needs to be made. Sorry, if I have been too forceful. I know this is not exactly the Johnny Tremayne board, but I try to be honest to posters such as you who took the time to offer a well-thought lengthy response to my post. Liberos vivere, aut mori durum.

(No time to check spelling. Going to be late to work where I donate to entitlements.)

[jtuck004]

27. "They acquiesced." Easy, just give 'em more money, don't tell them from whence it came.

about 400ish years ago Laboetie pointed out that the tyrant CAN'T give you anything he didn't take from you in the first place. Yet people are exceedingly grateful for the "gift".

Buildings full of bankers who perpetrated a fraud that they testified about in front of Congress, for cryin' out loud, for profit, yet even an investigative effort such as that applied to the older S&L scandal wasn't even mounted. Instead they laugh, and have gathered perhaps trillions of dollars of taxpayer money.

Meanwhile we remove 50,000 families from their homes each month in the wake of the financial ruin left by their continuing enterprises.

Drones for America, indeed. Didn't NYC just arrest an artist who pictured them as using drones? An artist. China executed some of those in the past. First step jail...

That last sentence - I prefer to think of it as investing in ourselves and our neighbors. That way I can see the return I get on it.

Are you a repair plumber? I was for years, and the job description above was what I did too.

But I am talking numbers of people in the millions. All using civil disobedience to stop a gross miscarriage of justice. They would be unstoppable.

Hell, the woman who flies the drone overhead might have a grandpa, mother, or a kid out in that crowd. Milgram's experiments, repeated often by others, tell us that around 60% of people will hurt or even kill when told to simply because someone appears to be an authority. Higher when you train people to do this in the military.

But would it hold up when they have to hurt their family? I wouldn't bet on it if I were one of the tyrants.

[plethoro]

37. Remember, when Yeltsin was in power and the soldiers refused to shoot their own

citizens? That's what will happen here. The police will because of their megalomaniacal natures. But not the military. We shall see what happens, my friend. As Davy Crockett said: Be sure you're ready, and then go ahead. That's what I'll be doing. When that day comes me and a bunch of other Vietnam Vets will be dressed in our fatigues lugging around all kinds of ancient stuff. We won't be coming to talk. Yes, I did some plumbing work, usually part-time while I was doing other stuff. Now I have to take 300 mg of Ubiquinol to show any energy. Keep me posted if you see anything provocative with respect to stealing entitlements. Later.

[jtuck004]

40. Vietnam vets against people with laser guided bullets that shoot around corners. Not something

I would like to see. I think your analysis of police vs military is generally accurate. We can compare history, recently in New Orleans, and when troops were sent to the South in '57.

I read about Davy Crockett too, thoroughly enjoyed it, but it was when I was younger. History and other things I have read convinced me that there is more power in simply refusing to cooperate, when the cause is for freedom. But our minds are steeped in our rightness for battle, so it's a tough sell sometimes...

I suspect any moves on our investments in people (investment formerly known as entitlements) will be posted on the front page of DU.

[newfie11]

18. WOW where in the Black Hills are that many folks?

Just curious

[plethoro]

21. Operative word here is area. There are many militia groups

across the US, but this is the only one I've seen with my own two eyes.

[newfie11]

23. Just curious

We lived 15 years in black hills near Custer before moving down here 5 years ago.

[plethoro]

24. I have friends in Blackfoot that are working the rigs in ND. These

people see things differently. I can visit with them for a few days and am exhausted by the stuff we do. Different world.

[MrSlayer]

7. This whole thing is a farce and we're going to get fucked.

Getting two points on the top rate is not a fair trade off for slashing benefits. It just isn't. Two points on the top bracket is nearly worthless. Capital gains has to go up, corporate minimum tax has to come back, defense spending has to be cut, Wall Street transactions need a fee and the top rate has to go up. After that, we can afford to leave everything as it is or even improve the big three.

Keeping all the Bush tax rates except for the top bracket which will go up a pittance is still bargaining from the puke position.

Why are we acting like it will be a win if the top rate goes up while everything else in the Bush cuts stays the same? Why are the Democrats willing to trade the safety net for a tiny amount of revenue?

The Romneys of the world will not be touched by this rate hike. They're the fucking scumbags that need to pay. The money for nothing crowd.

[rudycantfail]

12. They're going to do this.

If you listen to the behind the scenes Party scum like Shrum, Plouffe, Axelrod etc., last week they tipped off that it's a done deal and hailed it as a 90% win that grown-ups will be happy with. Both sides have since followed the script that says the other party is endangering the country for political gain. The third and final act is they come together, like responsible adults for the good of the country and save us from the fiscal cliff!

THE END

*applause*
*shouting down the booers*


People keep coming back cause it's the only theater in town.

[MrSlayer]

17. Too true.

It's all a charade. I know it for a fact and yet I still find myself sucked in from time to time. It's insidious.

[SHRED]

9. We don't need "serious entitlement reform and additional spending cuts"

WE NEED A LARGE INFRASTRUCTURE STIMULUS TO JUMP START GOOD JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tigress DEM]

11. Obama's deal is on the table and he's got entitlement reform and spending cuts already...

The $250,000 line for taxes going up is part of the BALANCE needed.

What rethugs offered isn't much more (Bohner's deal) but it comes from different directions and isn't "surgical" cuts that eliminate waste and target areas of real reform instead of just throwing money at rich people and hoping it bounces back.

"they can accept some rate increases as long as it's combined with serious entitlement reform and additional spending cuts"

The rethug deal has 1.1 trillion in entitlement cuts and 800 billion in new revenue (over 10 years) where as Obama is kind of a mirror opposite $1.6 trillion in new revenues, achieved in part by letting the Bush-era tax cuts expire for the wealthiest Americans, as well as $600 billion in spending cuts and a handful of other measures.

SO.... there may be some play in the area above the $250,000 line as far as what "rates" the top earners get taxed at that brings that $1.6 trillion down to $1.3 for instance and maybe some additional cuts in spending, but nothing anywhere near the cuts that would happen if we got cut across the board with no agreement reached.

Tonight on the Ed Schultz show the Republican leadership is talking about working through the Holidays to reach an agreement. THEY don't want to go home and raise taxes on 98% of their constituents or make huge cuts in defense that they have to explain and polling is showing that the rethugs would take the political heat for sure.

Obama is giving them a way to save face, and a little wiggle room, but he isn't caving in or letting the rethugs frame the debate.

[iandhr]

19. Isn't medicare part of the automatic cuts?

[woo me with science]

20. We don't have representation anymore. nt

[Hydra]

25. K&Ring this not because I support this

But to draw attention to this:

"combined with serious entitlement reform and additional spending cuts,"

You know, funny how we said the President was determined to slash SSI and other programs because, well, he offered to do it before. No possible way we'd be seeing it again, right?

[JoePhilly]

32. Let us know when it happens.

Its not going to happen.

[Hydra]

34. Uh huh

And what happened to the public option?

The better question is, what will you say when it DOES happen? That it was "necessary"?

[SoCalMusicLover]

38. If I Win Powerball, I'm Going To Retire In A Week

The chances of that are the same as the chances of the repukes compromising anytime soon on the tax issue.

I don't see a deal being made until after the end of the year, and perhaps dragging into even February or beyond.

The repukes are going to have to be dragged kicking and screaming into any compromise, and they're going to extract every last ounce of blood from the Democrats, and the entitlement programs they love, before giving in.

It wouldn't surprise me if in the end we get just what someone else on this thread said. A mere 2% increase in the top rate, combined with substantial entitlement cuts and cuts in tax deductions for the middle class. The repukes will make certain the pain hits the middle class at least as hard as it's going to hit their "base" in the top 2%.