Fleming: Muslim Couple Left ‘Big Mess’ In My Restaurant

[DonViejo]

Source: TPM

Rep. John Fleming pushed back publicly on Wednesday against a Muslim couple who said they were discriminated against at a Subway restaurant owned by the Louisiana Republican.

Fleming told The Baton Rouge Advocate newspaper that Mohammad and Talat Husain were denied service on Nov. 21 at the Shreveport, La. shop because they left a “big mess” in the bathroom, provoked employees and were scaring away other customers.

The congressman, who owns dozens of Subways in the state, said Mohammad Husain’s allegation that an employee asked about his religion was untrue and a security video proves it.

“She never asked if he was Muslim. That’s simply not true, and the audio and video supports it,” Fleming told the paper. “It really seems to me he was trying to provoke a reaction and only asked to eat after he’d provoked a reaction.”

-snip-



Read more: http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/12/john_fleming_big_mess_muslim.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

---

This OP updates this OP:

Congressman’s Restaurant Refused To Serve Muslim Couple

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014325956

[kickysnana]

1. Big mess in the bathroom is "code" and was used against the Vietnamese here

30 years ago. It is a big fat ugly. lie.

[JustAnotherGen]

4. What does that imply?

I've never heard of that phrase being code for anything . . .

[kickysnana]

5. That they are dirty, uncivilized people, wink, wink. n/t

[Ken Burch]

7. In the Jim Crow era, Dixie whites were obsessed with keeping nonwhites out of their bathrooms.

(See "The Help" for an illustration of that).

It's a way of dehumanizing those that the majority culture sees as different.

[JustAnotherGen]

14. Um

I'm anti 'The Help' as a black American woman - doesn't really represent us! Read this book for more information:Melissa Harris-Perry's. Sister Citizen: Shame, Stereotypes, and Black Women in America (The author of the The Help even put me - the 'tragic mulatta' chick in the book. ). But I'll use my dad's Jim Crow experience for that. I've just never heard it used towards Asian Americans.

So - it's like how some white folks think we are 'dirtier' because we leave a darker ring around the tub (dead skin).

This Congress Critter oughta be ashamed of himself.

[Ken Burch]

29. I hear you on all of that-only referenced that movie because of the bathroom thing.

Not holding that film or that book up as an exemplar of how to depict Jim Crow.

[oberliner]

44. The employee was an African-American woman

She is the one who is responsible for the actions described in the article.

[Ken Burch]

46. Was that info in the article?

n/t.

[oberliner]

47. It's in this one

An African-American female employee, Fleming said, justifiably saw him as a behaving oddly and possibly being a vagabond.

She asked him to leave and, when he tried to force his way back in to finally order food, she then locked him outside, Fleming said.

http://theadvocate.com/news/4609500-123/fleming-rebuts-couples-subway-story

[Ken Burch]

48. OK, but that info wasn't in the link in the OP. And even in your link,

We only have Fleming's WORD(and he doesn't make himself sound all that trustworthy so far) that it was "an African-American female employee". It's in Fleming's interest to imply that the employee who objected to the Husains wasn't white.

[oberliner]

51. Yes, it was

If you read the article linked to in the OP, you would see that it hotlinks to two other articles on the subject, one of which is what I provided for you above.

If Fleming is lying and the employee was not African-American, I would think this would be easily uncovered as such.

[Ken Burch]

57. I did find it in one link, but it was STILL only Fleming saying the employee was African-American.

The fact that all we have is Fleming asserting the race of the employee might partially explain why he's refusing to release the video.

It's in his interest(given the long-standing Southern white obsession with potty purity)to put a black face on the person doing the exclusion.

Bear that in mind.

[Fastcars]

61. I used to stop at this Subway at least twice a week

I would stop at this Subway on my way to work and I don't know that I ever saw a non-African American employee there.

There is usually much more to these stories than what appears in the press. I would be willing to bet that neither side is without blame, but I find it really hard to believe that the employee took it on herself to lock the man out for absolutely no reason other than being Muslim.

[Ken Burch]

84. OK. You can understand my reasons for suspicion on this.

But thanks for your info.

[obamanut2012]

66. What difference if the employee was African American?

That doesn't mean she can't be eitehr xenophobic or anti Muslim.

[oberliner]

85. "Dixie whites keeping nonwhites out of the bathroom"

It was in reference to that comment.

[intheflow]

73. Wouldn't be the first incident of internalizing oppression.

See: Stockholm Syndrome - http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1920301,00.html
See: Internalized Racism - http://www.freireproject.org/blogs/internalized-racism

[oberliner]

76. Or maybe her version of what happened is different

Maybe there was no racism of any kind involved at all.

I'd love to see an interview with her.

[RevStPatrick]

12. Or maybe... they just left a big mess in the bathroom?

People do that.
I've seen it happen.
I used to have to clean it up, when I worked in restaurants.

[kickysnana]

17. There are slobs and there are crazy people but no ethnic group behavior

I am riding in the car in Nashville with my Mom's cousin in 1999 and an all American African American couple are crossing at the light with a stroller and the cousin says "Those people are so dirty and ignorant" for no particular reason other than that they were there.

It is code, it is a slur. You are supposed to say uh-huh.

[JoeyT]

18. If he wasn't lying through his teeth,

he'd be releasing the video that he claims completely backs his side of the story. He isn't because it doesn't.

[kestrel91316]

33. They sure do. Here in Los Angeles, public restrooms are often

in frighteningly filthy condition, with urine and feces all over the floor of the stall, and mountains of used toilet paper right there with it. Rumor is that poor folks from south of the border and possibly other 3rd world immigrants are not used to being able to flush used TP so they just throw it on the floor.

Even that doesn't explain why they leave such a filthy mess, because there ARE trash cans available.

[antigone382]

38. Not being able to flush used TP is true...but I've never seen it thrown on the floor.

Everywhere I've gone they had trash cans to deal with the used TP, and they were used for that purpose.

[kestrel91316]

39. You are lucky. It's a HUGE problem here, and completely inexcusible.

[Codeine]

49. It happens daily in my store.

Drives me up the goddamned wall.

[kickysnana]

54. They are filthy because nobody maintains them.n/t

[kestrel91316]

62. Not true. I'm talking about stores and businesses where you go in the AM

and they are spotless and then later in the day after the hordes have had at them, they have crap all over the floor.

Human waste and TP don't just magically appear on the floor because somebody hasn't come in with a broom or mop lately. They are put there by PIGS.

[iemitsu]

70. There are plenty of Americans who are unexplainably filthy.

And I don't believe the behavior is exclusive to any one economic or ethnic group, or age category, or gender identity.
Since I prefer to live in a clean and tidy environment, I clean up the messes I make. But many people don't.
Have you seen "Hoarders"? All of those featured have some resources. They have a place to live and enough money to buy and hoard enough junk to make their homes uninhabitable. I don't mean to suggest that all hoarders are personally filthy, and on the show none of them appear dirty, but those who hoard pets and those whose hoards are homes to vermin have become accustomed to filthy environments. They have to smell bad. Their bathrooms are in worse condition than the public restrooms described above. People who live in these conditions might leave such conditions behind in public spots?
One can think that angry people are responsible for creating these messes, and perhaps that explains some of the behavior (evidently teenaged girls are particularly hard on public restrooms) but I suspect that mental illness is at the root of most of this sort of filthy and unclean behavior.
People who function normally just don't do that.

[NYC Liberal]

53. Not true. People do leave messes all the time.

However, since it's coming from a Republican I am certainly willingly to believe he is lying about it.

[obamanut2012]

65. I've heard that used against Hispanic men

Guys who were doing tile work. They refused to let them use the bathroom, because of teh mess those types made -- "those types" didn't mean tilers.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

2. Ohhhhhh I see Congressman;

2 people, members of a religion that isn't exactly popular in the US, a religion that many believe makes them automatic enemies of the state, deliberately cause a disturbance in your sandwich shop (it's not really a restaurant- snark! :O) )
Why would they do that?

[cstanleytech]

22. Well, we could always just wait and see what the video shows before passing judgement?

I know, its a radical new idea and thus its scary but hey, it might actually work.

[Ikonoklast]

25. See below.

He refuses to release any video.

I wonder why.

Not.

[cstanleytech]

37. Check post #23 as I acknowledged that there. nt

[LanternWaste]

36. How long should we wait...?

How long should we wait...? The fine congressman appears to be stalling the release of this alleged video.

But yeah... it might actually work.

[WeekendWarrior]

45. Doctoring video isn't as easy as

doctoring still photos. It takes time, for godsakes.

[lunasun]

77. +1

[Enrique]

3. Fleming's answer to the question I was wondering...

Fleming said there was no current plan to release the security video because it could give the Husains extra information if they choose to sue.

[TeamPooka]

6. bazinga!

[cstanleytech]

23. I cant fault that logic to much though you would think if they were lying

he would have filed suit against them already for libel.

[Smilo]

8. The mess in the bathroom is Fleming

just another floating turd on humanity.

[Ken Burch]

9. If the Husains sued, could the presiding judge in the case compel Fleming to release the video? n/t.

[SoapBox]

10. Ditto.

...show the proof.

[lobodons]

15. Discovery

Its called "Discovery" and its the law that the video be turned over.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

31. If it doesn't get erased first.

If the victims are planning to sue, they better move fast to start preserving the evidence.

[rurallib]

11. well, republicans never lie

[Roy Rolling]

13. Regardless

Who knows what the truth is, but for sure it would be much clearer with a video.

Withholding the video to prevent them from suing is bogus. They can sue and subpeona the video in an instant, so not giving it does nothing to prevent litigation.

[Ash_F]

19. The good stuff is deeper in the article

"Fleming said there was no current plan to release the security video because it could give the Husains extra information if they choose to sue."

Sounds like he's really confident that he was right.

"He also suggested the Husains could have “political reasons” for their actions and said the Council on American-Islamic Relations, which publicized the couple’s complaints, had “nefarious connections” and ties to Hamas."

Oh yeah, I am really feeling this guy's credibility now. Oh and he's a Republican. Strike three.

[Caeser67]

20. I Just Want To Know

When did we start associating Subway as a restaurant?

[jpak]

21. Racist Pig

yup

[oberliner]

43. The employee was an African-American woman

She is the one who took the action in question.

[intheflow]

74. As if African Americans can't be racist against Muslims.

[oberliner]

75. They certainly could be

But this article makes it seem like the RW Republican was responsible for what happened, when it was really the employee who take the action in question. Maybe someone can interview her about what happened from her perspective?

[intheflow]

87. If you're just looking for the employee's version, why bring up her race?

[oberliner]

88. Mostly because of some other comments

A few comments made note of the history of white racism against people of color especially in that region. In this case, however, it appears that the employee in question was not white.

[Ter]

24. I wasn't there, so I'm not gonna take sides like so many have

Who knows, maybe he did crap all over the toilet seat and give the employees a hard time and send food back more than once. It happens.

[immoderate]

28. I also wonder if a man who owns dozens of restaurants benefits from discriminating...

and if it's a pattern, why wasn't it noticed before?

--imm

[Bradical79]

32. I doubt it's an official policy among his restaurants.

If the story of the guy leveling the accusations is true, it's more likely that there was a racist store level manager and Fleming has no problem giving him benefit of the doubt. Most Republican lawmakers seem to share anti-Muslim xenophobic views, and are pretty quick to label any accusation of discrimination as someone "playing the race card" (or gender card, or whatever form of bigotry seems to be the issue).

[CreekDog]

30. you don't send food back at a Subway

jeez. get out much?

[Ter]

34. You could sit down and say it didn't taste right

I don't jump to conclusions just because the owner disagrees with my policies. I find it highly unlikely they were thrown out (and told!) because they were Muslim.

[Ash_F]

56. No, but I've been tempted to.

[oberliner]

41. None of that was claimed

Read the actual story from both perspectives.

[patrice]

26. Not enough info. Was the waste-basket in the restroom overflowing BEFORE they used it?

What exactly is this precise "big mess"? Water on/around the wash-basin? A couple of paper-towels on the floor?

Only the right kinds of actual information enables us to separate trolls, or people with attitudes that are the reciprocal of the racism aimed against them, from those who have actually been abused.

[oberliner]

42. Read the actual account of what happened

For what it is worth, the employee was an African-American woman.

[Occulus]

59. You keep saying that and

I keep wondering how being an African American precludes bigotry against Muslims...

[oberliner]

60. Hence, "for what it's worth"

Maybe it doesn't mean anything - maybe it does. People can draw their own conclusions, but I do think it helps to have as much information as possible.

Obviously, there is no way of knowing who is telling the truth and who is lying. If this employee actually asked this person if they were a Muslim and then, upon receiving the answer of yes, declined to serve them - well that is obviously clear and disgusting bigotry.

If, however, the employee noticed non-paying customers using the bathroom for a half hour and, in the process, making a mess of it, coming in and out of the store without purchasing anything, and laying out a blanket in the parking lot, I could see why the employee may ask that person to leave.

[obamanut2012]

67. Exactly

[Lawlbringer]

27. How can he prove that a videotaped/photographed mess

in the bathroom was theirs?

[awoke_in_2003]

35. Hmm, big mess in bathroom...

and provoked customers, huh? Is it the 60's again?

[oberliner]

40. An African-American female employee was the one who asked the man to leave

Fleming had nothing to do with it.

The reason she asked the man to leave was, according to her, because they entered the Subway, used the restrooms for a half hour without ordering anything, left and re-entered the Subway three times over a 45 minute span without seeking food service.

The employee also noted that the man spread a blanket out on the ground near the entrance to the store. The woman asked him to leave. She said he blocked the door and became aggressive at that point so she called the police.

[MrSlayer]

50. Is it impossible that things went down just as the employee said?

Of course not. Sometimes people just want to stir up shit and then try to sue, what is more uniquely American than that?

Check the tapes.

[JCMach1]

52. okay story could easily be true

In the Middle East when there are no proper washing facilities at prayer time restrooms get trashed. How many times did i find myself in public toilets with feet marks all over the seat and wat.er everywhere. While not dirty for worshippers... they were doing their necessary. However by normal hygiene and western standards.... totally disgusting.

Culture clash.... Do you really want to have that discussion with the couple?

[oberliner]

58. Do non-paying customers have the right to use the bathroom?

I've seen signs at some places saying that restrooms are for customers only.

I know that this is an issue in some cities where people use restrooms to extensively clean themselves leaving it a mess.

[Ash_F]

68. I don't believe so but they ended up eating at another subway.

So they were likely going to order there.

I fairly commonly use the bathroom at a place, before ordering, when I've been on the road for a while. Never had an issue with anyone.

[oberliner]

71. I don't know if that means they were likely going to order there

Perhaps they only made that decision after and because of what happened at that Subway.

And, I would say that it is indeed common to use the bathroom before ordering. However, it appears that the bathroom use was more extensive than normal - involving what seemed to be activity better suited to a shower or private residence, according to the reports from what the employee allegedly observed.

Also, I would say it is unusual to enter and exit a Subway three times over the course of 45 minutes to use the bathroom while not placing any order. I can see why the employee may have thought this was not someone who may not have been intending to be a paying customer.

In any case, it's all speculation at this point.

[jberryhill]

81. Wudu

If he went outside to pray, then this is what he was doing in the bathroom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wudu

[oberliner]

83. Interesting

A Malaysian company has made a Auto Wudu Machine last week specially for Wudu of Muslims. This Machine is made to save water wasting during Wudu. This Machine has made Wudu more easy, better as well as faster. Most importantly it will save lot of water that many people usually waste during doing Wudu. its an green color computerized Machine. while doing Wudu its is not required to to touch the taps because taps will active with water proof diffuser sensors.

http://islam44.blogspot.com/2010/02/first-islamic-auto-wudu-machine.html

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. Video?

He's running a video in his restaurant that records every transaction?

[iemitsu]

63. It seems to me that if the Islamic man washed then went outside

and opened a prayer rug, which even the congressman recognized, "Fleming said Mohammad Husain spread a blanket and trinkets on the ground of the parking lot and that the 63-year-old might have been trying to pray" that the customer was probably engaged in religious activity, then being afraid and refusing to serve him was clearly unjustified.
And the congressman's refusal to release the tape, that demonstrates his employee's innocence because, 'it could give the Husains extra information if they choose to sue" suggests the film does not entirely support the congressman's claims.

[jberryhill]

79. If it was just before prayer time, then he probably did wudu in the bathroom

FWIW

[obamanut2012]

64. The wife was STILL IN THE BATHROOM

So, how would they know she made a mess?

How did that scare off customers not even in teh store, and

Release the video if true.

Doubling down.

[iemitsu]

69. And even if the bathrooms were a mess

how do the employees know it was this couple who made it?

[JCMach1]

72. let me just say again. ritual washing before prayers

In a facility not designed for it gets really really nasty and disgusting. Also if he were in a hurry, he wouldn't necessarily be careful at all.

For those that haven't lived in the middle east this means dirty feet and footprints all over the toilet seat . There will be toilet paper here and there and water everywhere. If they don't wash using the toilet that same mess will be in the sink.

There is also normal bathroom hygiene which involves water for .tp. .tp would only be used to dry.

There is a good chance that the folks left a huge mess to clean up. That would leave the restaurant well within their rights to ask them to leave.

I had to follow cultural norms in Arabia . Most Muslims and Arabs figure it out early on how to manage religious washing. Probably these folks need to speak with their local clergy for some pointers in how to do this in the West.

[jberryhill]

80. That's what it sounds like

...and it can depend on their particular background what, in particular, they scrub.

[oberliner]

86. This seems reasonable

I wonder how this will all play out.

[tavernier]

78. And what is with those women who stand and piss all over the seat

because they have a phobia about sitting on a toilet seat someone else's butt has touched. Of course their phobia doesn't extend to others because they don't clean up after themselves. This is totally disgusting, especially if the lights in the bathroom are kind of dim and being unaware, you sit in it.

[ronnie624]

82. Yep. It's call 'hovering'.

I've had to deal with that before, and it is very irritating. I completely lost all respect for a woman I once regarded highly, because of the mess she left in my restroom, by 'hovering'.