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BumRushDaShow

(157,314 posts)
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 06:46 AM Jul 6

Texas officials face scrutiny over response to catastrophic and deadly flooding

Source: AP

Updated 8:31 PM EDT, July 5, 2025


KERRVILLE, Texas (AP) — Before heading to bed before the Fourth of July holiday, Christopher Flowers checked the weather while staying at a friend’s house along the Guadalupe River. Nothing in the forecast alarmed him.

Hours later, he was rushing to safety: He woke up in darkness to electrical sockets popping and ankle-deep water. Quickly, his family scrambled nine people into the attic. Phones buzzed with alerts, Flowers recalled Saturday, but he did not remember when in the chaos they started. “What they need they need is some kind of external system, like a tornado warning that tells people to get out now,” Flowers, 44, said.

The destructive fast-moving waters that began before sunrise Friday in the Texas Hill Country killed at least 43 people in Kerr County, authorities said Saturday, and an unknown number of people remained missing. Those still unaccounted for included 27 girls from Camp Mystic, a Christian summer camp along a river in Kerr County where most of the dead were recovered.

But as authorities launch one of the largest search-and-rescue efforts in recent Texas history, they have come under intensifying scrutiny over preparations and why residents and youth summer camps that are dotted along the river were not alerted sooner or told to evacuate.

Read more: https://apnews.com/article/texas-floods-hill-country-weather-warnings-238d4325bb58f0b410015f74684738b6



“What they need they need is some kind of external system, like a tornado warning that tells people to get out now,” Flowers, 44, said.


The NWS DOES have that - it's called a "Flash Flood Emergency" and that goes out over the EAS (Emergency Alert System) to all broadcast outlets and cell phones (at least those equipped with the capability - most models do have that capability nowadays).



Apparently FFEs WERE sent out - at least in the Austin metro area and I expect in all of the areas that were impacted. You do have an issue where those "off the grid" and/or any without a cell phone and/or a NOAA weather radio, would not get the alert.

Of course, Muskrat and DOGE took a chainsaw to the NWS and NOAA for ideological reasons, so many bets are off.
47 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Texas officials face scrutiny over response to catastrophic and deadly flooding (Original Post) BumRushDaShow Jul 6 OP
I fear the number will go up to 300-400 before this is all counted Prairie Gates Jul 6 #1
IIRC BumRushDaShow Jul 6 #3
My first thought when I read your reply kkmarie Jul 6 #6
Maybe some zoning laws preventing kids' camps from being built in a flood zone. travelingthrulife Jul 6 #8
Ha! Texas allows explosive chemical plants next to schools, hospitals, etc. Grins Jul 6 #14
Unfortunately, such an attitude can lead to some stinkin' results. calimary Jul 6 #11
shithole musk republicans gutted the NWS, NOAA, Weather Channels, etc.............. Lovie777 Jul 6 #2
This tragic story--like that of hurricane Helene--is not only about budget cuts, but... Ol Janx Spirit Jul 6 #20
General Russell Honore' disagrees with the statement in the OP gab13by13 Jul 6 #4
The UK Guardian made this observation about TX Guv's Press Conference SorellaLaBefana Jul 6 #7
Disgusting people. Slapping each other on the back for a "good job Brownie" after people have died because of their Martin68 Jul 6 #18
A couple of seemingly simple question. Was the warning delayed... paleotn Jul 6 #5
there needs tp be a congresional hearing where everyone is called in... samnsara Jul 6 #10
Exactly my thought. Hearings on top of hearings on top of more and more hearings. paleotn Jul 6 #13
Today's Post reports that the local NWS staff were not significantly reduced. They sent out phone flood warnings Martin68 Jul 6 #19
If true, why did so many die? paleotn Jul 6 #37
Poor planning, apparently. They reportedly have no cell phone service, so they should have made alternative Martin68 Jul 6 #40
In an area known for flash flooding? Bullshit paleotn Jul 7 #47
To me the Texas leaders are incompetent. Jacson6 Jul 6 #9
their response to both was to point fingers elsewhere DBoon Jul 6 #29
Tx. track record Marthe48 Jul 6 #12
What's the GOP response to this? SpankMe Jul 6 #15
In order to get a FFE on your phone... TrumanTheTiger Jul 6 #16
Depending on the provider and phone type BumRushDaShow Jul 6 #21
The National Weather Service sent out phone warnings 3 hours before the flooding became severe. Perhaps they missed them Martin68 Jul 6 #17
There was apparently no cell service at the campsite. Ms. Toad Jul 6 #22
That is entirely believable. Considering their location next to the Guadalupe River, and the history of flooding there, Martin68 Jul 6 #24
Especially after the 1987 similar flooding of this river, Ms. Toad Jul 6 #27
I really doubt that. Have had relatives in that area and no problem getting connected. efhmc Jul 6 #44
I'm just going by the many published comments from those in the area. n/t Ms. Toad Jul 6 #45
You know what I want to know? ananda Jul 6 #23
It's a cool place to be - until there is a flash flood. Martin68 Jul 6 #25
My question is why so CLOSE? ananda Jul 6 #36
99% of the time it is safe. It was up to them to prepare for the inevitable 1%. Martin68 Jul 6 #41
I disagree. ananda Jul 6 #43
With all due respect, if Texas had invested in a flood alert system, they would have been 100% safe. Martin68 Jul 7 #46
In an area known to flash flood, and then ALSO have no phone/internet by policy, RockRaven Jul 6 #28
"Why such an obsession to be right along the river?" BumRushDaShow Jul 6 #33
Kerr County doesn't have a flood warning system because, in the words of an elected official, RockRaven Jul 6 #26
Guess that climate change thingy kind of bit them in the ass but they still have hopes and prayers to count on nt ImNotGod Jul 6 #30
NYT-As Floods Hit, Key Roles Were Vacant at Weather Service Offices in Texas (gift links) LetMyPeopleVote Jul 6 #31
first and foremost lapfog_1 Jul 6 #32
That camp has been there since 1926 BumRushDaShow Jul 6 #34
the 1987 event should have served as a warning for all in the future. lapfog_1 Jul 6 #35
Doge.. Cha Jul 6 #38
9 rushed to the attic DENVERPOPS Jul 6 #39
oh the QUANDARY Skittles Jul 6 #42

Prairie Gates

(5,732 posts)
1. I fear the number will go up to 300-400 before this is all counted
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 06:54 AM
Jul 6

The refusal of officials to put a "cap" on the possible missing is a huge tell. They know hundreds are unaccounted for, I suspect.

We will surely see a slate of "Camp Mystic Laws" passed everywhere in the country requiring any sort of camp to be hooked into an early warning system with sirens, etc.

BumRushDaShow

(157,314 posts)
3. IIRC
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 07:14 AM
Jul 6

There was at least one trailer park that got flooded (and probably more). Raging water will lift those trailers right off their blocks/foundations. It's probably similar to what happens with hurricanes and coastal "storm surge".

kkmarie

(280 posts)
6. My first thought when I read your reply
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 08:59 AM
Jul 6

about a slate of laws across the country because of this devastating event. My first thought was Yep everywhere but TX. They don't need no stinkin' laws

Grins

(8,660 posts)
14. Ha! Texas allows explosive chemical plants next to schools, hospitals, etc.
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 11:45 AM
Jul 6

Texas - by law - does not allow common sense zoning. Texas oilman Hugh Roy Cullen called zoning an "un-American, German plan,” against “liberty “ and “American values.”

Cullen, one of the crazy hard-core conservative Texas oilmen, took sensible zoning to court in the 1940’s. He was against it. And won.

Nicely described in the book, “The Big Rich,” which should be required reading just for the chapters on how these few - unbelievably RICH - Texans shaped the shit-pot that is today’s MAGA conservatism.

calimary

(87,190 posts)
11. Unfortunately, such an attitude can lead to some stinkin' results.
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 10:19 AM
Jul 6

But, seems to me, this kind of calamity DEMANDS a nationwide slate of laws. The tragic loss of so many precious kids can’t be allowed to happen again - if AT ALL possible. All those families! They’ll never be the same again. They’ll have to bear this deep personal wound for the rest of their lives.

YES, DAMMIT! A slate of laws to prevent (or at least head off) another disaster like this. For Texas TOO! Too damn bad if they don’t like it or “we don’t do things like that in Texas”. Those sweet precious children are GONE. Just GONE. Forever. They’ll never fall in love. They’ll never grow up and maybe do some truly great things. They’ll never start families of their own, or learn coping mechanisms for tough times and/or occurrences. They died before they even got a chance to LIVE. Death is FOREVER!

And for anyone who may be in denial or who might want to refer to all the years where this never happened and everything was always just fine, and this was just an unfortunate anomaly, well, how ‘bout what ACTUALLY HAPPENED, to THEM? Right THERE???

The ONLY thing the rest of us can even try to do is to take steps that can prevent future tragedies like this. I bet every one of those grieving moms and dads and siblings are being forced to deal with that, right now. I don’t know any of those people, but my heart is broken thinking about what all those survivors are forced to face, right now - and all the way down the proverbial “road ahead”.

Lovie777

(19,466 posts)
2. shithole musk republicans gutted the NWS, NOAA, Weather Channels, etc..............
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 07:11 AM
Jul 6

fired Meteorologists, weather experts, weather journalists, etc.

Hell yeah I blame shithole and comrades for this, and I fear this is only the beginning.

FEMA resources are going towards deportations and concentration camps. Read recently one of the heartless GQP/maga said of Alligator Alcatraz - in a hurricane, the concentration camp will not be evacuated. WTF.

Ol Janx Spirit

(353 posts)
20. This tragic story--like that of hurricane Helene--is not only about budget cuts, but...
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 02:04 PM
Jul 6

...about a climate that is changing in ways we do not understand and can not currently predict regardless of resources. They help--yes--but these two events should alert us to the fact that regardless of the resources we throw at prediction and warning, we are now in an era where nature will do things we have never seen before. We must be more prepared for that fact. In many ways we are on our own and must be mindful enough to save ourselves....

gab13by13

(29,056 posts)
4. General Russell Honore' disagrees with the statement in the OP
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 07:27 AM
Jul 6

Last edited Sun Jul 6, 2025, 08:03 AM - Edit history (1)

about the size of the rescue effort. Honore' said there were not enough boots on the ground. Many more were needed and needed now. He suggested bringing in the National Guard. Honore' also stated they needed more helicopters. Honore' also stated they needed better coordination throughout the entire area that was affected, not just press conference coordination.

Another damning statement that Honor' made was that this has happened several times before and Texas never fixed the problem, he said this time they need to fix the problem.

Of course Noem will simply blame Joe Biden and the people of Texas will accept that. They will not dare criticize Honore' because he isn't afraid of them, he won't take their lies.

People can post a dozen articles that are basically coming from Texas politicians who are covering their asses.

I believe Honore'.

SorellaLaBefana

(398 posts)
7. The UK Guardian made this observation about TX Guv's Press Conference
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 09:40 AM
Jul 6
"... news conference began with a series of long, self-congratulatory statements and praise for Trump from Republican officials, including Abbott, the homeland security secretary, Kristi Noem, senator John Cornyn and representative Chip Roy. It was only after reporters pressed them for details on the rescue and recovery effort that they provided an update on the missing and the dead"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jul/05/texas-flood-recovery-dozens-dead-children-missing

Since they offer "thoughts and prayers"—here's a Bible verse they might consider before praying—being Good Christians each and every one

Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each
esteem other better than themselves.

Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.


Philippians 2:3-4





Martin68

(26,227 posts)
18. Disgusting people. Slapping each other on the back for a "good job Brownie" after people have died because of their
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 01:49 PM
Jul 6

negligence.

paleotn

(20,648 posts)
5. A couple of seemingly simple question. Was the warning delayed...
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 08:23 AM
Jul 6

due to NWS cuts? Was the NWS's San Antonio office hamstrung by workforce reductions to the point they can't do their jobs properly anymore? And do they still have the tools necessary to protect the public? And I don't want all that brushed aside by some NOAA spokesperson forced to do so under threat of being fired and deported.

samnsara

(18,591 posts)
10. there needs tp be a congresional hearing where everyone is called in...
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 10:15 AM
Jul 6

..musk and every one of his doggy kids

paleotn

(20,648 posts)
13. Exactly my thought. Hearings on top of hearings on top of more and more hearings.
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 10:46 AM
Jul 6

20+ campers, children, dead, why?! And they thought Benghazi would resonate. They ain't seen nothing. Hang the bastards with it.

Seeking advantage from a tragic situation? Dirty politics? You bet your ass. Effective politics is many times more than a bit dirty. Sometimes very dirty. What we don't know or chose to ignore is that POLICY and POLITICS are not the same thing. But they are connected. Like we've seen in recent days, if you don't do effective POLITICS, you don't get to do POLICY.

Old story about a political operator consulting a neophyte politician with a distaste for bare knuckle politics...."You can have all the noble policy ideas in the world, but ya know what? If you don't win, all those noble ideas don't mean shit."

Martin68

(26,227 posts)
19. Today's Post reports that the local NWS staff were not significantly reduced. They sent out phone flood warnings
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 01:52 PM
Jul 6

3 hours before it became severe at 1:00 AM.

Martin68

(26,227 posts)
40. Poor planning, apparently. They reportedly have no cell phone service, so they should have made alternative
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 09:23 PM
Jul 6

arrangements for warnings about flooding events. They must have a landline.

paleotn

(20,648 posts)
47. In an area known for flash flooding? Bullshit
Mon Jul 7, 2025, 05:56 PM
Jul 7

Not you. That’s directed at the”authorities “. State and federal.

Jacson6

(1,460 posts)
9. To me the Texas leaders are incompetent.
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 09:51 AM
Jul 6

They let children die in Uvalde,TX and now it looks like 27 girls at a camp have been claimed by the storm.

Marthe48

(21,377 posts)
12. Tx. track record
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 10:24 AM
Jul 6

Failure of the power grid: People died

Hurricane Harvey: People died

Uvalde: People died

Barriers in the Rio Grande: People died

The same cabal has been in charge during each of these disasters, and they remain in charge as more people die because of their flagrant disregard for the health and safety of people they are supposed to protect.



SpankMe

(3,539 posts)
15. What's the GOP response to this?
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 12:28 PM
Jul 6

L.A.'s response to the fires earlier this year were greeted with GOP accusations of un-preparedness, corruption, incompetence, DEI, etc. Has anyone heard what the line of GOP criticism is for the failings that led to the TX flood casualties?

I recall something about goose vs. gander?

TrumanTheTiger

(46 posts)
16. In order to get a FFE on your phone...
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 01:48 PM
Jul 6

….you’ve gotta have “government alerts” (specifically emergency alerts and/or public safety alerts) turned on. That should blow through DND if that’s turned on.

BumRushDaShow

(157,314 posts)
21. Depending on the provider and phone type
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 02:10 PM
Jul 6

some are automatically enabled and you may have to disable ones that you don't want (I had been getting a billion Amber Alerts and had to turn that off).

And the FFEs usually go out via an EAS so those would also appear on TV (often as a banner that runs along the bottom of a program being aired) and radio stations (where it will break in with the familiar "tones" ).

Some more general info (for the thread) - https://www.ready.gov/alerts

I have been signed up with Ready.gov and locally here - ReadyPhiladelphia for some time, so that I can get texts (and also get actual calls through a service they have - "CodeRED", which can go to both cell and landlines with an automated message).

I know during storms here, it can be insane with the weather radio blaring, cell phones ringing, as well as texts and emails pouring in!

Martin68

(26,227 posts)
17. The National Weather Service sent out phone warnings 3 hours before the flooding became severe. Perhaps they missed them
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 01:48 PM
Jul 6

because it was 1:00 AM. Here in Virginia we always hear emergency broadcast alerts on our phones for flood warnings and tornadoes. They are very loud, so I don't know how Texans missed them. We always have our phones nearby if there have warnings about big storms or high winds.

Ms. Toad

(37,374 posts)
22. There was apparently no cell service at the campsite.
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 02:24 PM
Jul 6

At least according to others who have been in the area.

Martin68

(26,227 posts)
24. That is entirely believable. Considering their location next to the Guadalupe River, and the history of flooding there,
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 03:26 PM
Jul 6

I am surprised they had no plan to receive warnings by landline of possible life-threatening weather events.

Ms. Toad

(37,374 posts)
27. Especially after the 1987 similar flooding of this river,
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 03:32 PM
Jul 6

Which took the lives of several other youth campers.

ananda

(32,659 posts)
23. You know what I want to know?
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 02:27 PM
Jul 6

Why such an obsession to be right along the river?

Isn't it just common sense not to put youth camps
or facilities right along rivers?

ananda

(32,659 posts)
36. My question is why so CLOSE?
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 06:36 PM
Jul 6

They can still have camps close ENOUGH but
not dangerously so.

Martin68

(26,227 posts)
46. With all due respect, if Texas had invested in a flood alert system, they would have been 100% safe.
Mon Jul 7, 2025, 03:30 PM
Jul 7

RockRaven

(17,636 posts)
28. In an area known to flash flood, and then ALSO have no phone/internet by policy,
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 03:35 PM
Jul 6

and then when children die because of that obvious negligence it's just "well, nobody could have known; Jeebus took the wheel; don't tread on muh freeeedumb!"

BumRushDaShow

(157,314 posts)
33. "Why such an obsession to be right along the river?"
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 04:01 PM
Jul 6

I went to a 2-week overnight Girl Scout camp 3 different summers when I was in the scouts and the camp had a good sized creek (not a river though) that ran through it.

Many of these "comprehensive" camps do this because they offer some type of "boating" activity (we had rowboats but there was also canoeing available at the camp too and I think those activities were part of earning a badge). I expect some camps also offer kayaking as well and high-end ones might have sculling.

But what happened to that camp was that it got hit bad with flooding when Hurricane Agnes came through the area in '72 (the camp is in Eastern PA not far from Philly) and flooded the entire site -



When I had returned there, I saw the damage - a rope bridge completely upended and many trees downed in the woods where the creek ran.

When the weather "behaves", the water is serene. But in this era of climate change and more extreme weather events, all bets are off. They often dubbed stuff like this a "once in a century" event but they are unfortunately now happening far more frequently.

RockRaven

(17,636 posts)
26. Kerr County doesn't have a flood warning system because, in the words of an elected official,
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 03:31 PM
Jul 6

the taxpayers don't want to pay for it.

Well, they (don't) get what they (don't) pay for.

ImNotGod

(900 posts)
30. Guess that climate change thingy kind of bit them in the ass but they still have hopes and prayers to count on nt
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 03:40 PM
Jul 6

LetMyPeopleVote

(166,964 posts)
31. NYT-As Floods Hit, Key Roles Were Vacant at Weather Service Offices in Texas (gift links)
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 03:41 PM
Jul 6

Some experts say staff shortages might have complicated forecasters’ ability to coordinate responses with local emergency management officials.

🚨 NYT: As Floods Hit, Key Roles Were Vacant at Weather Service Offices in Texas

Some experts say staff shortages might have complicated forecasters’ ability to coordinate responses with local emergency management officials.

Gift link:

MeidasTouch (@meidastouch.com) 2025-07-06T04:33:59.776Z



https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/05/us/politics/texas-floods-warnings-vacancies.html?unlocked_article_code=1.UU8.Zjkx.evidtrUYt_ZY&smid=tw-share

Crucial positions at the local offices of the National Weather Service were unfilled as severe rainfall inundated parts of Central Texas on Friday morning, prompting some experts to question whether staffing shortages made it harder for the forecasting agency to coordinate with local emergency managers as floodwaters rose.....

The staffing shortages suggested a separate problem, those former officials said — the loss of experienced people who would typically have helped communicate with local authorities in the hours after flash flood warnings were issued overnight.

The shortages are among the factors likely to be scrutinized as the death toll climbs from the floods. Separate questions have emerged about the preparedness of local communities, including Kerr County’s apparent lack of a local flood warning system. The county, roughly 50 miles northwest of San Antonio, is where many of the deaths occurred......

The National Weather Service’s San Angelo office, which is responsible for some of the areas hit hardest by Friday’s flooding, was missing a senior hydrologist, staff forecaster and meteorologist in charge, according to Tom Fahy, the legislative director for the National Weather Service Employees Organization, the union that represents Weather Service workers.

The Weather Service’s nearby San Antonio office, which covers other areas hit by the floods, also had significant vacancies, including a warning coordination meteorologist and science officer, Mr. Fahy said. Staff members in those positions are meant to work with local emergency managers to plan for floods, including when and how to warn local residents and help them evacuate.

That office’s warning coordination meteorologist left on April 30, after taking the early retirement package the Trump administration used to reduce the number of federal employees, according to a person with knowledge of his departure......

John Sokich, who until January was director of congressional affairs for the National Weather Service, said those unfilled positions made it harder to coordinate with local officials because each Weather Service office works as a team. “Reduced staffing puts that in jeopardy,” he said......

An equally important question, he added, was how the Weather Service was coordinating with local emergency managers to act on those warnings as they came in.

“You have to have a response mechanism that involves local officials,” Dr. Uccellini said. “It involves a relationship with the emergency management community, at every level.”

But that requires having staff members in those positions, he said......

Typically, Mr. Sokich said, the Weather Service will send an official to meet regularly with local emergency managers for what are called “tabletop operations” — planning ahead of time for what to do in case of a flash flood or other major weather disaster.

But the Trump administration’s pursuit of fewer staff members means remaining employees have less time to spend coordinating with local officials, he said.

I have been through a number of hurricanes/storms including Ike, Allison, Harvey and lately Berly. There were weather service people coordinating with local officials during all of these storms. Here the DOGE and trump cuts meant that the weather service did not have the staff available to coordinate with the local officials.

lapfog_1

(31,143 posts)
32. first and foremost
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 03:49 PM
Jul 6

First - WHY the fuck were the camps even near the river... anywhere near a potential flash flood. This river has a history of flooding. The 1987 flood should have put all of the land that might flood off limits for human habitation ( even for camp housing ).

Second - Camps like this should ALWAYS have someone on duty 24 hours a day, tied into various weather, police, etc warning systems with the ability to trigger a variety of warnings ( flood, tornado, active shooter, etc ) with procedures to all camp counselors on how to respond within minutes to each type of warning.

Third - When they de-fund the weather satellites... and reduce the weather balloons, WTF do they think with happen. All models require data to operate. What is she even talking about regarding modernizing the NWS? New computer systems to run the models... sure. AI - OK... but all of these need data, the more data the better.

BumRushDaShow

(157,314 posts)
34. That camp has been there since 1926
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 04:54 PM
Jul 6

and the last time there was a catastrophic flood like this, was almost 40 years ago (that 1987 event).

Many overnight camps are set up in "rustic" / "woodsy" areas with creeks and even nearby rivers like this so that they can offer a number of different activities like hiking, boating, horseback and bike riding. archery, rifle handling, arts and crafts, etc.

I expect since that 1987 flood, they may have had those personnel but if you have what they dub an "areal flood" (which happens over a broad area), everyone in the area may be screwed because there may be water water everywhere and difficulties for anyone trying to evacuate.

I had heard a news report that there was a large RV park that was full (it was the holiday weekend) where RVs were washed away. I had heard earlier that trailer parks were also impacted by the flooding.

lapfog_1

(31,143 posts)
35. the 1987 event should have served as a warning for all in the future.
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 05:16 PM
Jul 6

I went to camps like this as a kid ( boy scouts ) and while woodsy, etc, they were on lakes, not rivers. flooding a lake rapidly with currents, while possible, is much harder to do. As for trailer parks and RV parks, I feel sorry for those people... they should not have been in the flood plain either, but presumably the adults living / camping there take some of the responsibility. The bible camp for younger girls had the responsibility to look after them ( my point number 2 ) and camp counselors to have people evacuate given even 15 minutes of notice ( run, leave everything, run to higher ground and then climb a tree as high as you can )...

DENVERPOPS

(13,003 posts)
39. 9 rushed to the attic
Sun Jul 6, 2025, 08:17 PM
Jul 6

I think a lot of people did that during Katrina, only to be trapped in the attic with no way to get out. WBush said only a couple of hundred died, but then we found out later that like at least 1800 were missing..........

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