Subway push suspect laughs

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP-Timesunion.com

NEW YORK — A 31-year-old woman accused of shoving a man to his death in front of a subway train because she believed he was Muslim laughed and smiled during a court hearing where she was ordered to undergo a psychiatric evaluation.

Erika Menendez, 31, was charged Saturday night with murder as a hate crime after she told police she spontaneously pushed Sunando Sen, according to prosecutors.

"There is no reason. I just pushed him in front of the train because I thought it would be cool," she said, according to the Queens district attorney's office.

She laughed so hard during her arraignment in Queens criminal court that Judge Gia Morris told her lawyer: "You're going to have to have your client stop laughing."

FULL story at link.


Read more: http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Subway-push-suspect-laughs-4156201.php

[NutmegYankee]

1. Yeah... Seems a few fries short of a happymeal.

Sick and sad.

[kwassa]

16. sounds more like too much happymeal.

[bluestateguy]

2. I guess the stage is already being set for some "mental illness" bullshit

Nobody seems to be responsible for their own actions anymore.

[unblock]

3. guess i'm not clear on why it should be obvious there is no mental illness at play here....

[TwilightGardener]

4. Clearly she's not right. I don't think they have to set the stage.

[Bucky]

11. Yeh, but "not right" and "mentally sick" does NOT mean she didn't know it was wrong.

The test isn't "is she right in the head?" The test of legal culpability is "Was she capable of knowing that it was wrong?" If she took off after she did it, that's a damn weighty argument that she knew she shouldn't do what she did, no matter how proud of it she acts now that she's been caught.

Of course liberally sprinkle the adverb "allegedly" about the preceding paragraph.

[TwilightGardener]

15. I agree, she could just be a sociopath who knew exactly what she was doing

and simply wanted to hurt someone and get away with it. Or, she could have been responding to auditory hallucinations or delusions. She has a past psych history, I'm sure that will come into play with her conviction and sentencing (assuming it comes to that).

[rug]

18. This is the defense contained in the New York Penal Law.

S 40.15 Mental disease or defect.
In any prosecution for an offense, it is an affirmative defense that when the defendant engaged in the proscribed conduct, he lacked criminal responsibility by reason of mental disease or defect. Such lack ofcriminal responsibility means that at the time of such conduct, as a result of mental disease or defect, he lacked substantial capacity to know or appreciate either:
1. The nature and consequences of such conduct; or
2. That such conduct was wrong.

[slackmaster]

45. You have just illustrated a common misunderstanding regarding mental illness and the law

Under criminal law, a person can be mentally ill and still accountable for his or her actions.

A person who is mentally incompetent may not be accountable, because he or she doesn't understand the concept of right and wrong. Mental incompetence can result from many different things including low intelligence, dementia (e.g. Alzheimer's), and some forms of mental illness such as schizophrenia.

People with severe personality disorders - Borderline, Narcissistic, Antisocial, etc. - are generally considered to be mentally competent. Prisons are full of such individuals. They get no special consideration at trial or in sentencing.

[Mdterp01]

51. Mental illness is not BS

Nt

[secondwind]

5. Many people do awful things because they think it is "cool".. and they are not mentally ill.

[RKP5637]

52. Quite true. It's a very slippery slope. It's relative to the norm. n/t

[LongTomH]

6. A person may be mentally ill without being 'legally insane.'

The legal definition of insanity or 'diminished responsiblity' varies state by state.

[Omaha Steve]

7. Here is the NYT story that wan't up yet when I posted this she has a mental past!!!!

There is a long history of mental illness. There is a law to keep her on her meds. Somebody dropped the ball. Just be glad she didn't g to a gun show.


Troubled Past for Suspect in Fatal Subway Push: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/31/nyregion/erika-menendez-suspect-in-fatal-subway-push-had-troubled-past.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20121231&_r=1&


By MARC SANTORA and ANEMONA HARTOCOLLIS

Long before Erika Menendez was charged with pushing a stranger to his death under an oncoming train at a Queens elevated station, she had years of contact with New York City’s mental health and law enforcement establishments. She was treated by the psychiatric staffs of at least two city hospitals, and caseworkers visited her family home in Queens to provide further help. She was also arrested at least three times, according to the police, twice after violent confrontations.


Erika Menendez, 31, being escorted by the police Saturday. Ms. Menendez was charged with murder as a hate crime.

Ms. Menendez’s years of inner and outer turmoil culminated in the deadly assault on an unsuspecting man who was waiting for a train on Thursday. Beyond stirring fear among riders on crowded platforms across the city, the attack also raised new questions about the safeguards in a patchwork private and public mental health system that is supposed to allow mentally ill people to live as freely as possible in the community while protecting them and the public.

A similar attack more than a decade ago led to a law aimed at forcing mentally ill people with a history of violence to undergo treatment, but it is widely acknowledged to cover only a small portion of those who need help.

D. J. Jaffe, the executive director of the Mental Illness Policy Organization, an advocacy group, said that thousands of troubled individuals with violent histories were released from mental health facilities, and that beyond requiring that they have a home to go to and an outpatient care plan in place, there was little oversight of their activities.

FULL story at link.

[uppityperson]

10. Thank you for this. Have a relative who needs monitoring but doesn't get it because when is good

is very very good and doesn't need it. The system doesn't work and needs help.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

14. If she smoked pot she wouldn't have been on the streets....

You know what a threat to society THOSE people are.

[cali]

42. really? I don't know about NY, but in many states, smoking pot does not land you

in jail.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

46. Cop Shops get Fed money for pot busts.

[wandy]

8. I must not be watching enough fox news.......

Queens prosecutors said she pushed the 46-year-old India native to his death because she blamed "Muslims, Hindus and Egyptians" for the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

Hindus?
How do Hindus get involved in this?

[sbmvv]

12. easy

We are an easy people to hate.

We look like our Muslim brothers and we get all the negative press coverage possible because of our "backward" ways.

Sorry, being a little snippy here as I have faced more than a little abuse for being Hindu from Americans (and not just white ones either).
(Heck, I even got abused over the young woman who got raped and killed in Delhi).

9/11 made things worse, but Indian-Americans have faced a lot of abuse over the years. From the outsourcing debate to 9/11 - you name it it has happened. Because it is such a small minority, it has learned to take it because nobody listens when you complain

It takes an incident like this to bring it to the fore.

[Denninmi]

22. Apparently, it's also open season on anyone with a mental health diagnosis.

I'm sorry that you have faced discrimination because of your faith. People who would do that are ignorant beyond belief.

I feel the same way as someone with a mental health issue. Recent incidents committed by individuals with mental health issues have brought out the bigots.

[JI7]

27. how do we know there are mental health issues involved in many of these cases

many involve just fucked up hateful scumbags like the guy who shot up the sikh temple.

i also don't think the theater shooter was mentally ill. looked like he was putting on some act there.

so far from what i read only the case of the Gabby Giffords involved a guy who really was out of it .

and in the case of the OP why did she run away after she pushed him ? she may just be a violent hateful person .

every single mentally ill person i know is not violent and more likely to have crimes committed against them. and the opposite is true of the violent people i know of. of course this is just my personal experience and not scientific info.

[Denninmi]

31. We don't know.

It's mostly speculation and gossip.

[Marrah_G]

38. The CT school case is speculation

This case is a little more then that. She has a history of violent rage. Locking people up in prison when they are sick isn't the answer, but when they are sick and violent, I think that compelling a hospital stay until stable is not over the top.

[sbmvv]

33. Then accept my sympathies

Let me express my sympathies with you. It is unacceptable.

One of my former colleagues had autism and was one of the most intelligent and capable people I knew.

However, I can only imagine what he is facing because of the speculation over the state of mind of the perpetrator of the recent mass shooting.

It seems you kind find a bigot anywhere and for anything. Your health condition (mental or physical), your racial origin, your faith, even the country of your birth.

Somebody will always find a way to discriminate, insult or mock you because of one of the above.

I hate to say it but so-called liberals seem to be as susceptible to this as so-called conservatives.

What is also true is that people have a tendency to comment and make generalizations about people, countries, illnesses, situations etc. on the basis of minimal information.

[wandy]

49. Sorry, didn't think of it that way...

Sometimes I give too much credit to my fellow man. Sometimes I forget that the act of being different is more than enough reason for some to hate.

If it's any help, know that at least some of us can wonder honestly.....

How do Hindus get involved in this?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

9. Re-Institutionalization. Now.

[Denninmi]

23. For whom?

Her? Everyone with any kind of a mental health diagnosis?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

24. the mentally ill with histories of threatening behavior,

Looking at the known histories of our flavor of the week psychopaths, how many would not have been institutionalized in years past?

[JI7]

26. i guess same would apply to those without mental illness

if they have been violent against others.

[Denninmi]

32. So, you're advocating incarceration for people not actually convicted of any crime?

Just because they have the potential, as does anyone?

How very 'Minority Report' of you.

[Marrah_G]

35. Actually

"Menendez had been arrested several times, starting when she was young. In 2003, she was arrested on charges she punched a 28-year-old man in the face inside her Queens home, but the case was later dropped. She pleaded guilty later that year to assaulting a stranger on the street near her home. The victim, retired Fire Department official Daniel Conlisk, said the attack was violent and relentless.

He said he was sorting recyclables outside his home one night when Menendez approached him and punched him in the face, screaming that he was having sex with her mother.

"It was such a shot," Conlisk said. "And I was surprised she hit so hard, because she was just a girl."

He said he tried to fend her off as she clawed at his skin. He eventually broke free and went inside his home, where he called police. When they arrived, he said, she was still outside screaming about him having sex with her mother, and saying he had stolen jewelry from her in high school."

Read more: http://www.timesunion.com/news/crime/article/Suspect-in-NYC-subway-death-arrested-before-4156423.php#ixzz2GgSJxLcc


I understand that you are upset and feel like the mentally ill are being picked on, but there are some cases out there of people being a danger to others and those people need to be treated somewhere that they cannot do harm.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

39. There is a pretty big difference between "potential" and "ticking time bomb"

Some people with mental illness are a danger to society, this might be uncomfortable for some people to acknowledge.

I am not keen on just writing off their victims as collateral damage.

[Marrah_G]

34. Maybe because she has a history of violence towards others and not taking medication?

http://www.timesunion.com/default/article/Suspect-in-NYC-subway-death-arrested-before-4156423.php

Seems to me she needed more help then they could give her at home.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

13. It's open season on Muslims to some people.

[Locut0s]

17. Clearly she's a socio/psychopath. nt

[Marrah_G]

19. Sounds like perhaps she should not have been let out of the hospital

[crim son]

20. Perhaps she wants to avoid the "hate crime" charges? n/t

[JI7]

21. what mental iillness is it that results in someone attacking someone because they don't like

their religion and then running away after they did that ?

why did she run away ?

[Marrah_G]

36. She clearly has issues

http://www.timesunion.com/default/article/Suspect-in-NYC-subway-death-arrested-before-4156423.php

[JI7]

40. yeah, they all have issues, she admitted why she did it

so what type of mental illness would make what she did excusable.

[cali]

43. She has a severe and persistant mental illness

and a clear history of psychosis. It's not about what she did being excusable, it's about whether she had the ability at the time to recognize right from wrong. And I don't know the answer to that.

[southerncrone]

25. And we know who keeps this hating alive every day...

[NoOneMan]

28. Our decaying civilized society,

which outputs both despicable and benevolent actors in the system.

Aint it all fun and games till our iPads gets blood droplets on em?

[Archae]

29. Yup. Faux "news" and the rabble-rousers they celebrate like Pam Gellar.

[smirkymonkey]

30. What a sick f**k. She deserves to be locked up forever.

I don't care if she is mentally ill, she is a danger to society at large and needs to be put away.

[Odin2005]

37. Blindingly obvious case of Psychopathy.

Lock her up for the rest of her life.

[grahamhgreen]

41. time to put doors on subway platforms, i guess...

[slackmaster]

44. Obviously severely mentally ill

[obamamyprez]

47. She looks like Backward-B Face girl

from the 2008 election.

[JI7]

53. that's who she reminded me of also

[geek tragedy]

48. Life in prison or life in a mental hospital.

Either way, she can never be allowed to be released.

[MADem]

50. Crazy like a fox, perhaps?

"There is no reason. I just pushed him in front of the train because I thought it would be cool," she said, according to the Queens district attorney's office.


If it is a hate crime (she pushed him because of his ethnicity/religion) that carries much more harsh prison time than if she plays the "insanity" card, where she'd end up in a (relatively) posh mental hospital.

It's all confinement, but one class of confinement is a bit more comfy than the other. Also, one can be declared sane if one plays those cards right. "I was treated and now I am cured! I am no longer a danger to anyone!" she can claim. Previously, she was insisting that she hated Muslims and that's why the poor guy got the shove--someone must have explained the whole sentencing guidelines thing to her...