(Hugo) Chavez taps hardline generals for inner circle

[Neue Regel]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2017351563_apltvenezuelachavezmilitary.html

President Hugo Chavez has been filling top posts in Venezuela's armed forces with hardline political loyalists, raising concerns among critics that the military leaders might not accept the results of this year's election if it goes against him.

The man named defense minister this month, Gen. Henry Rangel Silva, has been the bluntest: "A hypothetical opposition government starting in 2012 would be selling out the country; the Armed Force is not going to accept that," he told a Venezuelan newspaper in 2010.

Chavez, who according to recent polls has approval ratings above 50 percent, has assured opponents he would hand over the presidency if defeated.

Yet opposition leaders have been alarmed by the open political allegiance of the newly appointed generals, and especially Rangel's outspoken support of Chavez's political movement. The opposition has urged Rangel to abide by the military's traditionally apolitical role.

[MADem]

1. They may as well stuff the ballot boxes and be done with it. nt

[Fool Count]

2. Yeah, just as well. Appointing a defense minister US doesn't like and stuffing ballot boxes

is exactly equivalent. Another "equivalent" thing would be if Chaves won that election fair and square,
since he would still remain in power this way and US doesn't like that. The only proper thing for that
bastard Chaves to do would be to resign immediately and over power to the people US likes. That
would be real democracy.

[MADem]

3. Wow, aren't you a little fact-free extrapolator?

I'd settle for free elections. That's not going to happen though--Chavez has disqualified all the competitive candidates.

[Fool Count]

6. There are four outright falsehoods in those three sentences.

I am neither 'little" nor "fact-free" nor "extrapolator". That's three. And there was never a candidate competitive with
Chaves in those elections to begin with.

[COLGATE4]

9. You might want

to get the spelling of your hero's name right - it's Chavez, not Chaves

[carla]

36. The spelling may be incorrect

but their understanding is rock solid.

[MADem]

23. Well of course not--he wouldn't allow them on the ballot! nt

[bitchkitty]

37. Talk about fact free.

Venezuela has fair elections, and there's never been anything that suggests otherwise. Why would you deliberately lie about something like this, that can be easily proven false?

[MADem]

40. Suuure, anyone who wants to run can run! Oh wait...they can't. Never mind, then!

If that's what you call "fair" I wouldn't trust your judgment in any other areas, either.

[ronnie624]

4. Damned straight! What's wrong with him?

He should be putting his political enemies into positions of power, instead. Imagine appointing military leaders who might be loyal to him. It's not like he's had to worry about more than one attempted coup d'etat.

[MADem]

5. We're not talking friends, we're talking cronies. But whatever. Cheer him on, it plainly gives you

joy.

[joshcryer]

7. All voting in Venezuela is done via electronic voting.

There have been allegations in the past that it's been rigged, but I find those arguments specious at best.

It's not "pure" electronic voting.

You vote on a machine, it prints out your ballot, you put the ballot into a box, dip your pinky in cleaning solution, and then in ink that will not wash off for 3 days.

The allegations circled around people who, after voting on the machines, had ballots that did not match their wishes, and they weren't allowed to revote or "fix their ballot." Some allegations even surround arrests when people complained. I don't know the veracity of those allegations, but they weren't seen by the monitors who were there before, so I take those allegations with a grain of salt.

Overall I consider Venezuelan elections the cleanest in Latin America, if not the hemisphere (all of the America's).

[MADem]

12. Doesn't matter who you vote for, it only matters who counts those votes.

Glad you think those elections are clean--I simply don't share your view. I think the entire process is rigged.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

16. and all the election monitors are in Chavez's pocket i assume?

[joshcryer]

20. Sure, but MUD has observers, just as the Democrats and Republicans can have observers.

So I don't buy that they'd be able to rig the vote count. The rigging would happen at the electronic voting level and the voting booth workers ask you to assure that the ballot you've printed is valid, that you actually chose it. This almost completely rids the possibility of "electronic vote rigging" because there is an actual paper trail. Now, it's possible that some people could be getting shafted in some deeply corrupt areas, I'm not discounting that (areas where the MUD candidate is a mole or something), but that's not going to impact the overall vote, and our vote isn't immune from such cronyism either.

But we do have irregular voting methods, one state uses paper ballots, another state uses electronic voting machines, another state requires ID to vote, another state requires vote registration card, some states have early voting, others don't, and so on. In Venezuela they have an elections administration that has unified the whole process throughout all of Venezuela. So parties can't look to weaknesses in the system in one state (some states won't allow felons to vote here, for example, so Republicans go after those voter rolls, etc). If there is a weakness in the system it would have to be systematic and I simply can't see where that would be. Everyone of voting age is required to have an ID, and the ink on the pinky finger prevents revoting (so even if you're in the wrong district the popular vote is going to work, there is no potential rejection of votes).

The real rigging is at the top level, the denial of voter candidacy on trumped up charges. You look at how they kept LL from running and even tried to keep HCR from running. The administration can administratively deny people from being candidates, not judicially, administratively.

[MADem]

21. Iran does that--they pick who is "allowed" to run.

Of course, even at that, they had to stuff the ballot boxes, because Ahmadinejad did not win the last election.

[happyslug]

28. At least one pre-election poll support that Ahmadinjad won free and clear

The only nation wide poll done just before the actual vote, show him winning.

http://www.alternet.org/world/140656/pre-election_poll_predicted_ahmadinejad_win/

The actual poll:
http://www.terrorfreetomorrow.org/upimagestft/TFT%20Iran%20Survey%20Report.pdf

Please note the poll was done by phone, thus Ahmadinjad's greatest support group, the poor rural peasants without phones were NOT in the poll. Just pointing out the there is evidence Ahmadinjad won the election fairly.

[joshcryer]

29. There were no election monitors in those elections.

"Free and clear" then, becomes a misnomer at best.

[MADem]

30. I vociferously disagree.

If you're a rural peasant, you are more likely to have a land line phone (thanks to the legacy of that Shah, who brought telephones and electricity to the rural areas). The cellphones (and their towers) are all in the cities.

It's a hell of a thing when the guy gets more votes in a town than there are residents.

He stole that election. It's why so many people are pissed off.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/08/19/how_ahmadinejad_stole_an_election_and_how_he_can_fix_it

Using even a minimal standard, there are good reasons for Iranians not to trust election results. The president-controlled Interior Ministry conducts elections in Iran. It denies opposition observers access to polling stations and counts the votes. Only half of Mousavi's observers were permitted to observe polling stations in the capital city of Tehran; they had even less access in the rest of the country. None of the observers were permitted to see whether the ballot boxes were empty when the vote began. Nor were they permitted to accompany the mobile ballot boxes, which collected nearly one-third of the votes. And no Mousavi or impartial observers accompanied the ballot boxes from local wards to the provincial committees and finally to Tehran for the count.

Before the election, the reformists' Committee for Safeguarding the Votes expressed concern that 54 million ballots were printed -- millions more than for past elections and 8 million more than the number of eligible voters. Moreover, some ballots did not have serial numbers. About 40 million people voted, but no one accounted for the other 14 million ballots.

The Committee for Safeguarding the Votes also said it found a large number of Mousavi votes after the election, including some in the northern forests of Iran. It surmised that these votes were removed from the boxes and replaced with votes for Ahmadinejad. Mousavi himself claims he has evidence that the total number of votes exceeded the number of eligible voters by as much as 40 percent in more than 170 constituencies. Some of the party observers claim ballots for Ahmadinejad featured the same handwriting in the same ink.

These accusations of fraud are credible. Even the conservative Guardian Council has acknowledged that as many as 3 million votes might have been fraudulent. But, given the way the system operates, no one knows with certainty how many votes were legitimate and how much fraud occurred.

[joshcryer]

8. I predict a sweeping victory for HCR.

Just wait and see.

[COLGATE4]

10. In any event,

he's getting his Military ducks in line, just in case.

[joshcryer]

11. HCR = Henrique Capriles Radonski, not Hugo Rafael Chávez Frías.

I don't expect a military coup, HCR is a unifying candidate, to transition the country from Marxist-Chavismo-insanity to social democracy.

[Fool Count]

18. In your dreams, mate. Not without no-fly zones and NATO bombing, that's for sure.

[MADem]

13. Is the cancer recovery not going well? nt

[joshcryer]

19. Rumor has it they've resigned to prolonging it, but I take those rumors with a grain of salt.

Chavez has still been pretty out of the spotlight except for random appearances here and there so it's going to damage his campaign if he's not able to be in their faces for three-four months straight before the elections.

[MADem]

34. I heard he's terminally ill, but you never know what to believe from these reports.

They kept floating that assertion about Castro as well, and he's like a Timex--takes a licking and keeps on ticking.

The latest thing I saw was this:

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-01-23/americas/world_americas_venezuela-chavez-health_1_venezuela-s-national-assembly-venezuelan-president-hugo-chavez?_s=PM:AMERICAS

Within this article are the expected denials, but I'll just excerpt the assertions about his health/condition:

...Cancer has spread in Hugo Chavez's colon, spine and bones, and the Venezuelan president could have only nine months to live, Spain's ABC newspaper reported Monday, citing medical records provided by unidentified intelligence sources.

"His health appears to be deteriorating at a more rapid pace. Clearly there has been metastasis in the bones and the spine," the ABC report says, citing what it said were doctors' observations after medical tests December 30....According to ABC, in June doctors diagnosed Chavez with prostate cancer but said he could live for five years or more with treatment.

In late October, ABC says, the president's medical team said the number of cancerous cells in his bone marrow had increased. In late December, according to the newspaper, doctors said they had found a tumor in Chavez's colon. The president was refusing a more intense recommended treatment and could have only nine months to live, ABC says, citing medical records.

Citing a January 12 medical report, ABC says Chavez was receiving "increasing doses of painkillers and stimulants that have helped him give the impression that he is stabilizing and have given him a high level of visibility."

[joshcryer]

35. Yeah, that's the rumors I'm talking about.

The opposition thinks this is the best way to end his reign, have him prolong his life, lose in elections because he's unable to campaign, and then die afterward as a loved and cherished leader of the Venezuelan people.

[hughee99]

14. It looks like he's setting up "Plan B" just in case. n/t

[UTUSN]

15. R#1 & K for, how do you say "Quelle surprise" in tinpot dialect. Not really a question. n/t

[Dreamer Tatum]

17. "...has assured opponents he would hand over the presidency if defeated."

The hallmark of any great democracy: assuring opponents you'll play by the rules of the game.

[ronnie624]

33. He is forced to make assurances by an endless cadence of false accusations.

Answering to people is what democratically elected leaders do.

[Dreamer Tatum]

39. Poor, poor Hugo.

All that power grabbing is causing the wrong IMPRESSION...

[unkachuck]

22. what's so unusual?

"...filling top posts in Venezuela's armed forces with hardline political loyalists..."

....what top posts within the US armed forces are filled with generals opposing Obama?

[Angleae]

24. Most of them.

You'll find that most generals and admirals are republicans.

[MADem]

27. Not in my experience. They're more closely divided than many might suspect. nt

[EFerrari]

43. Um, seems like the last general that came out against Obama, McChrystal, was canned. nt

[Angleae]

45. They won't publically come out and state it. They've lasted too long to be that stupid (generally).

[joshcryer]

25. It is illegal for armed forces to show any political favor in the US.

You can't even attend a political rally in a uniform for instance.

So you cannot know if they favor or are opposed to Obama for that reason.

They may well in fact be opposed to him privately.

[MADem]

26. I know a few flag/general officers with GOP leanings who are in high wire jobs right now.

They're smart enough to put their biases aside, suck it up, and work for, not against, their Commander in Chief.

During the Bush years, I knew no small number of senior leaders who voted for a Democratic ticket when they pulled the curtain. One of them is running the VA now.

The difference is this--in the US, it's very bad form to cheerlead in uniform in a partisan way. You can cheer for the commander in chief after a military victory, you can't cheer for the President in a reelection bid. When you do (like that asshole did from the pulpit in uniform during the Bush years), you find yourself in receipt of orders of the "retirement" variety.

Also, anyone who becomes a general or admiral in the US military has earned the rank--he or she isn't the fortunate friend or cousin of El Presidente who got fast-tracked through the system and skipped ranks to get the full fruit salad on the chest and the gold on the hat and epaulets. They all come up pretty much the same way, through a few accession tracks, and they all have to check the same experience blocks in order to qualify for promotion. It's a long, strange trip to get to the top of the heap--not a quick and easy jaunt.

[Neue Regel]

31. Can you tell me, what is the "official salute" of the US military?

From the article:

During his 13 years in office, Chavez has long promoted trusted officers and has increasingly sought to put his political stamp on the military command. Chavez survived a failed 2002 coup in which dissident military officers were involved, and has since tried to ensure tighter control.

Chavez also instituted a new official salute, "Socialist fatherland or death," which he later changed during his cancer struggle to "Independence and socialist fatherland."

As for the newly promoted generals, Chavez says they lead a military that is becoming progressively "more revolutionary, socialist, committed."

[unkachuck]

32. '...what is the "official salute" of the US military?'

....the peace sign?

"...Chavez survived a failed 2002 coup in which dissident military officers were involved,..."

....if democratically elected Obama survived a failed coup attempt in which 'dissident military officers' were involved, wouldn't Obama be very cautious with military positions and promotions?

....what's so unusual?

[Neue Regel]

41. Think about history for a moment...

Take as much time as you need...now, tell me, how often do you remember a nation's military having a verbal official salute? I suppose "Independence and socialist Fatherland" is a slight improvement over "Socialist Fatherland or death", but do you think it is in a nation's best interest for its military to be in the business of endorsing a particular view of social policy? Would you be comfortable if our troops had to address senior military members with "Capitalist Homeland or death!"?

[EFerrari]

42. You mean, instead of imposing US economic interests all over the world with drones

black sites and assassinations? That it was an improvement?

Lmao

[unkachuck]

44. "...I will obey the orders of the President..."

US Armed Forces Oath of Enlistment

"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

"...I will obey the orders of the President...",....who in our money-based electoral/political system has the financial resources to purchase a billion dollar Presidency?

....since it costs one billion dollars to become a President, isn't taking the oath, "...I will obey the orders of the President..." and "Capitalist Homeland or death!" pretty much equal?

[bitchkitty]

38. Goddamnit! He's doing it again!

He's not letting the USA decide what is best for the people of Venezuela. He needs to let corporate America make his appointments. Bastard!!!!!

Those Venezuelans don't know which side their bread is buttered on, evidently. Time to start inventing atrocities, faking events and flooding the airwaves and the Internets with bullshit.

</sarcasm>

Neue Regel - new rule? Whose new rule?

[Judi Lynn]

46. This crapfest is going to be far worse this year each week as the Presidential election approaches.

Same old pattern, same old charges, same crappola, it happens every time a big political deal comes along in that country.

We are physically supporting the opposition through our government's political gifts, sending taxpayers' dollars to their journalists, and sustaining their anti-Chavez opposition hate-groups (pro-democracy NGO's? Ha ha ha), and conferences in Washington with the anti-Chavez leaders, bless their hearts.

And we sit here like mushrooms, in the dark, usually, with the feeblest among us swallowing everything the corporate media dumps on us, and damned happy to do it!