Court: Obama appointments are unconstitutional
Source: Associated Press
WASHINGTON (AP) A federal appeals court has ruled that President Barack Obama violated the Constitution when he bypassed the Senate to fill vacancies on a labor relations panel.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit says Obama did not have the power to make recess appointments earlier this year to the National Labor Relations Board.
Obama claims he acted properly because the Senate was away for the holidays. But the court says the Senate technically stayed in session when lawmakers gaveled in and out every few days for so-called "pro forma" sessions.
GOP lawmakers used the tactic specifically to prevent Obama from using his recess power to fill vacancies in an agency they claimed was too pro-union.
Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/court-obama-appointments-are-unconstitutional
democrat_patriot
(2,774 posts)malthaussen
(17,204 posts)They'll find some pretext sooner or later. I would bet at least a nickle on it. Maybe even a quarter.
-- Mal
onenote
(42,714 posts)The fascination with impeachment here is fascinating. Its not going to happen. And its certainly not going to happen based on this decision since dozens of recess appointments made by presidents of both parties don't meet the constitutional test adopted by the court here.
malthaussen
(17,204 posts)They impeached the last Dem for no good reason. Why not this one? Really, why are you so sure that a House where the majority is a bunch of extremist obstructionists won't impeach the Prez sooner or later? Especially given that their "mission" before the election was to "Make Obama a one-term President?" Are they just going to shrug their shoulders, say "Oh, well," and move on?
-- Mal
onenote
(42,714 posts)But it will never make it to the floor. Did you know that starting with LBJ, an impeachment resolution has been introduced against every president, Democrats and Republicans, except Ford and Carter? Given that history, its actually surprising that no one has introduced an impeachment resolution against President Obama.
malthaussen
(17,204 posts)I think the GOP must have really thought they would be rid of him after the last election.
Note: I don't think an impeachment resolution will pass the House, but I'll be seriously amazed if they don't try to bust Mr Obama for something.
-- Mal
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)as the Democrats have a comfortable Senate majority (54+Sanders).
SugarShack
(1,635 posts)PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)onenote
(42,714 posts)"mar up and distract" their entire terms? No. And the filing of an impeachment resolution against President Obama, which would be par for the historical course, is not going to do that either because the repub leadership will not even allow it to get out of committee. Their not nice people, but their not totally stupid.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)onenote
(42,714 posts)Could they? Sure. Will they? No.
William Seger
(10,779 posts)I had a high school teacher who like to use that phrase to say he would take short odds. But I bought a doughnut at 7-11 the other day... these days, that would mean an even bet.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)SemperEadem
(8,053 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)...and yet the Lemmings of America will ignore it.
BUT...the sky-rocketing price of Chicken Wings before Super Bowl?????
OUTRAGE!
wordpix
(18,652 posts)I know lots of people in DC who will be hopping mad
lsewpershad
(2,620 posts)Robb
(39,665 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)the senate gavel-ling in and our and calling it "in session". It's bullshit and I hope the supremes feel the same way I do.
24601
(3,962 posts)by the words adapted in the Constitution - including as changed if the provisions being examined were affected by any of the 27 amendments.
sinkingfeeling
(51,460 posts)never was in the UN?
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)which is what is at issue here.
onenote
(42,714 posts)The court didn't limit itself to the issue of pro forma sessions. It holds that only true intersession recesses can trigger the recess clause (and only vacancies that occur during a recess can be filled with a recess appointment).
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)('the Recess') itself concluding as you point out only true intersession recesses count (rendering the
specific 'pro forma' issue moot).
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)That's the problem.
If the current appointment is now ruled illegal, so are all the rest.
onenote
(42,714 posts)Its a dramatically broad ruling that goes against the grain of several decades of practice. To answer your question, yes, the Bolton appointment was "unconstitutional" under this decision. Under this decision, recess appointments can only be made in intersession recess, not intrasession recesses, no matter how long. And recess appointments can only be made if the vacancy being filled actually occurred after the recess began.
Dozens upon dozens of recess appointments made by presidents of both parties fail under this reading of the recess clause. Other circuit courts have reached contrary decisions. So with a split in the circuits and an issue that is fairly significant, I would be shocked if the SCOTUS doesn't take up the issue. How it comes out is hard to predict. Probably 5-4 one way or the other.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)I agree with your sense that it's a crapshoot as to how SCOTUS will rule.
onenote
(42,714 posts)The fact that other presidents have done the same thing, including Saint Ronnie, will be of no concern to them.
MADem
(135,425 posts)budkin
(6,703 posts)former9thward
(32,025 posts)Any challenges to presidential appoints would go through the DC circuit.
onenote
(42,714 posts)Also, while the statutes creating many federal agencies provide that the agency's decisions are appealable to the DC Circuit, they sometimes allow for appeals to be brought elsewhere. For example, appeals of NLRB decisions can be brought in DC Circuit or in the circuit where the alleged unfair practice occurred or the circuit where the employer is located. The case wasn't directly challenging the recess appointment -- it was challenging the validity of an action taken by the NLRB on the grounds that the agency didn't have a validly appointed quorum.
former9thward
(32,025 posts)dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)since, according to the court, they did not have a legal quorum....as i understand it.
markpkessinger
(8,401 posts). . . what are the odds they will overturn the decision? Practically nil, I think.
onenote
(42,714 posts)For example, the members of the court generally are concerned about the existence of vacancies on the court. While recess appointments are rarely used to appoint judges, it does happen (for example, Judge Pryor was a bush recess appointment and Judge Gregory was a Clinton recess appointment). The DC circuit decision would make it virtually impossible to use recess appointments to fill vacancies.
That being said, while I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of the SCOTUS rejects the dc circuit's reasoning in whole or in part, they could still end up invalidating the NLRB (and also the Cordray) recess appointments without causing too much disruption to the future use of recess appointment power by agreeing that while the power applies to intrasession recesses, the Senate was not actually in recess at the time of these particular appointments.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)olegramps
(8,200 posts)olegramps
(8,200 posts)onenote
(42,714 posts)Three judge panel.
spooky3
(34,460 posts)to the NLRB, no less. How surprising is that?
JohnnyRingo
(18,636 posts)It's the dept of labor. It's supposed to look out for workers, not the corporations.
Does the Chamber of Commerce appoint people who give voice to the hourly employees? I guess the republicans want to see appointees who argue for lower wages and decreased benefits from within the Dept of Labor.
Tell them what they keep reminding us: That Bush isn't president anymore.
On to the Surpreme Court.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)well they did give unions the sames rights as the business community.
money is power and that`s why they want a pro-business labor board. regulate unions out of exsistance.
Hard Assets
(274 posts)Roberts knows this. He understands when he must go and announce his retirement shortly.
His title of Chief Justice won't be there much longer.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Hard Assets
(274 posts)And it's best that he quietly resign while he's still alive.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)ReRe
(10,597 posts)... notify the Executive when they are away as to whether they are in or out of pro-forma session?
appleannie1
(5,067 posts)PRESIDENT OBAMA HAS MADE FAR FEWER RECESS APPOINTMENTS THAN ANY RECENT PRESIDENT | Despite the inevitable conservative complaints that President Obama is engaged in some kind of massive overreach by recess appointing Richard Cordray as the nations chief consumer financial protection watchdog, the truth is that Obama has used his recess appointment power very sparingly. After todays appointment, President Obama will have made a total of 29 recess appointments. By comparison, George W. Bush made 171 recess appointments; Bill Clinton made 139 recess appointments; George H.W. Bush made 77 recess appointments; and Ronald Reagan made 243. When you divide these numbers by the number of years each man spent in the White House, it reveals that Obama is far and away the least likely president to invoke this power:
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/01/04/397589/president-obama-has-made-far-fewer-recess-appointments-than-any-recent-president/
There is a chart going back to Reagan, who made the most.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Harry Reid? Can you hear me?
RC
(25,592 posts)mostlyconfused
(211 posts)not a victory. Reducing the ability of the minority to have its voice heard is a problem for the repubs now, and will be a problem for the Democrats some time in the future. If/when the senate flips, we'll end up wishing they'd not changed any filibuster rules.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)yellowcanine
(35,699 posts)And the SCOTUS is very cautious about interfering with Presidential powers and the recess appt process is clearly Constitutional. I don't think they will be very impressed with the "pro forma" sessions.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)the republicans will block anyone he puts up for the labor board. so the labor board will basically cease to function.it`s getting really hard to tell who`s sticking the knife in the back of the labor movement.
i guess the song "smiling faces" says it all.
Hawaii Hiker
(3,166 posts)liberal N proud
(60,336 posts)Despite the inevitable conservative complaints that President Obama is engaged in some kind of massive overreach by recess appointing Richard Cordray as the nations chief consumer financial protection watchdog, the truth is that Obama has used his recess appointment power very sparingly. After todays appointment, President Obama will have made a total of 29 recess appointments. By comparison, George W. Bush made 171 recess appointments; Bill Clinton made 139 recess appointments; George H.W. Bush made 77 recess appointments; and Ronald Reagan made 243. When you divide these numbers by the number of years each man spent in the White House, it reveals that Obama is far and away the least likely president to invoke this power:
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/01/04/397589/president-obama-has-made-far-fewer-recess-appointments-than-any-recent-president/
onenote
(42,714 posts)One would have to look at the circumstances of each recess appointment (or set of appointments) to determine whether they would pass the constitutional test adopted by the court of appeals in this case. If (and only if) the appointment was made during an "intersession" recess (not the more common "intrasession" recess) and the vacancy being filled occurred during that recess, then it would be constitutional.
Going back to Reagan, the length of the "intersession" recess has varied from as little as zero days to 3 months. Most of the time its been a month or two (depending on whether the adjournment occurred around Thanksgiving or around Christmas. Since 2007, there hasn't been an intersession recess that was longer than a couple of weeks.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Tiny url to bypass DU URL issues (with '$'): http://tinyurl.com/b5mwmhu
Full link (must cut and paste):
http://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/D13E4C2A7B33B57A85257AFE00556B29/$file/12-1115-1417096.pdf
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)EC
(12,287 posts)he's the one that made a deal with Mitchy boy to not close down the Senate giving Obama a chance at filling so many empty posts. The repubs won't approve judges, heads of dept. etc. - now that he has goofed up on the fillibuster, I wonder what he'll do about recesses and about all those candidates sitting around waiting for years to be confirmed.
onenote
(42,714 posts)Under this decision, any recess appointment made during an "intrasession" recess (such as a holiday recess or the August recess, etc) is invalid.
Under this decision, recess appointments are only valid if made during a true "intersession" recess (i.e., the recess between the first session of a Congress and the second session) and only if the recess actually occurred during the recess.
Back in the day, Congress actually adjourned for a while before a new session was started. These days, the old session often doesn't adjourn "sine die" until the same day as the new session begins.
Interestingly, this would suggest that the length of the recess isn't important. Just when it occurs. My guess is that the SCOTUS takes this and in a closely divided decision rejects the court of appeals' interpretation, clearing the way for intrasession recess appointments to fill vacancies occurring before the recess began, but then upholds the practice of holding "pro forma" sessions to skirt the application of the recess appointment clause in intrasession recesses.
EC
(12,287 posts)because it would invalidate too much that has been done already under appointments for the last few decades. But the fact that Obama didn't have any chance at all is on Harry. Harry knew the repubs were going to stop almost all appointments and still did not allow a recess.
Igel
(35,320 posts)It wasn't given.
The Senate couldn't to into recess according to the terms of the Constitution.
The "deal" was on finding a way to implement not going into recess and still letting members leave town. The alternative was to require all the members to stay in town or continue to try to hold "real" sessions without a quorum. Eventually there'd be enough concern that the chair would be forced to implement proceedings to get AWOL members back to constitute a quorum, and the idea of Senators being escorted back to the Senate by deputies of the Senate would have made for humorous news stories.
This "deal" was standard. It was done under *, as well. Obama insisted that President Bush treat on pro-forma sessions as "real" sessions when he was Senator Obama but that he could treat pro forma sessions as non-sessions when he was President Obama. If not for this, no court case and no decision that bites everybody in the butt. Nobody liked the old rule but everybody had agreed on it, both (R) and (D). And even (I).
Unintended consequences form a very cogent bit of evidence against claims of omniscience.
budkin
(6,703 posts)Freddie Stubbs
(29,853 posts)budkin
(6,703 posts)PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)have differing opinions on the recess appointment constitutionality.
Politicub
(12,165 posts)But our president is a smart man and a constitutional lawyer to boot.
nolabels
(13,133 posts)I don't see any political reform in the next four years but more than willing to bet it will have welled up big time in the next eight to twelve.
It has a lot to do with all resources on a grand scale and that in turn makes for the motivation. We are not at that point yet, at in the present the wealthy are just girding their loins.
judesedit
(4,439 posts)onenote
(42,714 posts)another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Let's get a different Federal Court, with different Judges, to rule on the Constitutionality of "pro forma" Senate sessions. That is what seems to violate both the spirit and the letter of the law.
onenote
(42,714 posts)Ironically, one can read this court as allowing recess appointments to be made in a recess of any length, even one minute, if the recess is the one that occurs at the end of a session of Congress. The court invalidated the appointment not because Congress was still in session but because even if the pro forma session wasn't valid, the old session of Congress had ended, and the new session commenced, the day before. Thus, under the court's interpretation of the recess clause, no recess appointments could be made until Congress adjourned at the end of that session of Congress (and before it reconvened for the next one). On top of that, two of three judges held (the third said it wasn't necessary to reach the issue) that even during a "intersession recess" between the end of one session and the beginning of another, the recess appointment can only be used to fill a vacancy that first occurred after the recess began.
That's not to say that someone (and by someone, I mean someone with legal standing) could bring a declaratory ruling proceeding in a federal court somewhere else (and by somewhere else I mean somewhere that an actual case or controversy exists) seeking a ruling on the validity of some action taken by the NLRB.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Thanks for the clarification. That's much better information than the article itself!
onenote
(42,714 posts)They may have foreseen the appointments being invalidated but not on grounds that could all but prevent recess appointments from ever occurring in the future.
24601
(3,962 posts)have judges.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)I will edit my post accordingly. Thanks again.
NYC Liberal
(20,136 posts)Igel
(35,320 posts)It's silly.
1. I agree with "happen." You need a change of state, some endpoint to something. There's a counterexample ("Joe happened to be examining the meteorite's impact crater when a second meteor hit the same spot" . It's a usage not very likely to be in the Constitution, and may be recently innovated for all I know. It still means "arose" but leaves aside any information as to when the change occurred.
2. Their discussion of "the" is crap. Johnson presupposes knowledge about a thorny point of English grammar that was still actively argued 200 years later. See Enc's article published in Linguistic Inquiry in 1995 (give or take a couple yeas) for a nice summary of English definiteness, viewing "specificity" and "definiteness" as distinct categories. Contra the court, "The tiger is a ferocious beast" is not specific (except with respect to "tiger kind" --no individual, concrete tiger is involved, but neither is it true that all tigers are ferocious. "The tiger is a ferocious beast, but Tiny the circus tiger here is a coward" is perfectly fine. The kind is ferocious, the token at hand is timid. Compare "All tigers are ferocious beasts, but Tiny the circus tiger here is a coward" or "This tiger here is a ferocious beast, but Tiny the circus tiger is a coward"--you have to fight hard to get the nonsense reading that "Tiny the circus tiger" is coreferential with "this tiger." You really assume there are two tigers involved.
3. The problem is defining "session." I think of a "session" of Congress as extending from swearing in until the next Congress is sworn in, but I have a synonym in "the Congress" (usually with a # in front of 'Congress').
But if Congress is "in session" it's actively meeting or its adjourned, it's not in recess. That means I can say, "This session of Congress isn't in session." I think in the first 40 years of the Republic this would be deemed anomalous.
The court's parsing of "the Recess" is inane. It places an unsupportable burden of foreknowledge on both the Senate and the Executive. Looking at the political context of the day makes clear that the court's parsing isn't necessary to explain the historical facts they buttress their conclusions with.
I'll assume that there's no difference in usage in 'session' and 'recess' between the House and the Senate.
Take this year. The House and the Senate recessed in December. Was that the start of the intersession recess? In most years, sure. This year, no. But this was unknowable until a week later. Had they not reconvened, they'd have been in intersession recess. Obama could make recess appts. But since they did reconvene, Obama was retroactively barred from making intersession recess appointments. He couldn't know ahead of time.
Or perhaps by making an appointment that requires that the recess be intersession, he would have mandated that the session of Congress be over--thus barring Congress from reconvening?
Then again, the President would always be in charge. He could call the Congress back in session--presumably from "the Recess". Otherwise according this court the Congress is *already* in recess.
Yes, this becomes inane.
Here's my proposal. At the time, convening Congress was a bear. Moreover, the burden of administering a huge country and government with myriads of longwinded laws, scores of agencies, and reams of regulations wasn't so large. Required to be in session yearly (assuming that you could have a session of Congress not in session) there was no requirement to meet near the end of the term nor a requirement to meet longer than necessary.
They convene, a session starts. They recess, the session is over. The Congress remains the Congress. But all sessions are bounded by recesses. Once in session, you can't have more than one recess. For any session, there is a singular, specific, "the recess." That recess may not be between Congresses. It may be.
If the president makes a recess appointment it's because the Senate isn't around to deal with it. If the Senate wants, it can come back into session and deal with it. If it chooses to meet and leave the post vacant, then the position is vacant. The Senate has authority to make appts.--and that implies the authority to withhold them. If it chooses to not reconvene or doesn't have time to reconvene, then the issue is moot.
The way it works now strips the Senate of this power. If Obama (or *, or Clinton, or Bush I) makes a recess appt. the Senate is stuck with it for a year, until the "session" ends. It can't nominate another. It can only confirm a fait accompli. If the Senate refuses to confirm, then next (intersession) recess the prez re-recess-appts. the same person. The only option for the Senate is to have the outgoing Senate recess seconds before the new Senate is sworn in, and hope that the President doesn't sign his recess appointment during those seconds.
Any recess appointment, I think, could have been undone by simply (?) reconvening the Senate and then declaring recess 5 minutes later. This would be a stunning smack down of the President by the Senate. Moreover, reconvening Congress, for any President, was potentially perilous. It got the powerful Congress in the same town, able to pass laws and push him around. Any president not requiring something of Congress would have dreaded Congress' reconvening.
Result: You don't make controversial recess appointments unless you're damned sure that the recess is the last one before the new Congress. Or you make a recess appt fully aware that the Senate would confirm it, isn't planning on reconvening, and has no reason to reconvene. If you know the Senate is going to reconvene, why make the recess appointment?
The historical record is misinterpreted.
Still, it also leaves the definition of "recess" vs. "adjournment" up in the air. In this day and age you can adjourn and be home 3000 miles away during a 3-day adjournment. Harder to be 300 miles away during a 4-day recess in 1800. I don't see a way for the courts to make a definition that is unambiguous in its application and binding on Congress. "Sine die" might work. But it'll require tweaking, I think.
I also think that this points out a problem common to theoreticians. If you tweak part of a theory you really have to know what comes unglued at the other end. We've changed the interpretation of "session" and "recess" along the way and led to an accidental stripping of Constitutional authority from the Senate--and this court would restore it in ways that I think deprives the President of some of his Constitutional authority. But to fix this is going to make other things come unglued. Two hundred years' of tinkering has left a mess.