Oakland, Occupy take stock of the damage

[alp227]

Oakland officials and Occupy protesters confronted the fallout from their increasingly toxic conflict on Sunday, a day after the tensions reignited in chaotic, often violent demonstrations that resulted in at least 400 arrests. As usual, each side blamed the other for sparking the violence.

City officials took stock of the damage from Saturday's clashes, which included injuries to three police officers and several protesters, as well as vandalism inside City Hall.

There, dozens of protesters had broken in with a crowbar, grabbed an American flag, and ignited it on the front steps.

"It's like a tantrum," Mayor Jean Quan said while displaying the damage inside the building, which included a broken model of City Hall she estimated to be 100 years old. "They're treating us like a playground."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/01/29/BA4T1N07OE.DTL&ao=all



San Francisco Chronicle photo: Mayor Jean Quan surveys the damage at City Hall, where vandals knocked over a scale model of the building.

[TheWraith]

1. And yet, people are going to insist on continuing this anyway.

Even though it's so ridiculously detached from even the original idea that it's bordering on protesting for the sake of protesting.

[sabrina 1]

3. Quan needs to step down. She has already lost two of her close associates due to her shameful

behavior. To allow a PD known for its long history of brutal behavior towards citizens to go out and brutalize peaceful demonstrators is irresponsible to say the least.

This movement is going to grow over the coming months regardless of the transparent attempts to destroy it. In fact, those attempts, tried already in NY only increases support for the movement, which Global now and growing all over the world.

Shame on Quan. She betrayed those who placed their trust in her and showed her true colors over these past three months.

Go Occupy Oakland, and thank you all for all you are doing and have done. The people are with them, no one is fooled by the lies of the OPD. Their reputation precedes them, and the SFGate has been littered with rightwing trolls.

[TheWraith]

13. No, the "movement" isn't growing. It's dying.

Hint: when something becomes very unpopular with the general public; when protests dwindle from thousands to hundreds; and when nobody outside local or left-wing media cares about it anymore, it's circling the drain. Go ahead and try finding someone outside the left wing base at this point that supports Occupy. What you're going to find is that average people, i.e. that 99% that people are always talking about, either don't support Occupy or simply don't give a damn. It probably would have been different if it hadn't been for the ridiculous obsession with the tactic of occupying parks, but once it became all about that, and a turf fight between protesters and police, the writing was on the wall.

Of course I'm sure I'll get called some names for pointing these facts out, mass media imperialist running dog lackey or something. But it's kind of important to base one's opinions on facts, rather than faith. I'm just disappointed that OWS has become the new Code Pink: a sacred elephant of the left that nobody inside the bubble realizes is viewed as kooks by the overwhelming majority of the public.

[2pooped2pop]

17. well lets all give up then and let wall street and the gov

continue to rape us. That seems to be working. You henny penny types yelling "Occupy is dead, Occupy is dead" is what is old.

thanks for your opinion. Come to Chicago for the G8 Summit. See the dead occupation there. You should concentrate on hunting down Frodo, Wraith!

[brooklynite]

28. Politics fail when arguments are framed only on the extremes...

"Occupy" isn't the only way to work for change.

[2pooped2pop]

33. maybe not

but it sure as hell is the only thing I've seen working. Continuing the status quo is not working.

[sabrina 1]

21. You wish. Thankfully you are apparently unaware of what is going on all over the world. Just wait

until the Spring and Summer when the plans now being made are put into worldwide action.

This movement is going nowhere until changes are made that benefit the American people. Clearly you have not been following this movement. Why any Democrat would wish for the failure of a progressive movement that is so necessary in this country is beyond me. But you will be very disappointed as the growth of the movement worldwide continues as it is already doing and as it evolves over the Spring and Summer and will hopefully have a huge effect, as it already has, on the upcoming elections.

Amusing to see these predictions from the minute the movement began. It was declared dead after the first weekend, then after the second, the third, the second month, the third and yet, it continues to grow.

All over the country this week people are rallying in support of Occupy Oakland. Such events and especially the attempt to silence people, only contribute to further growth of the movement. So, let them keep trying, maybe eventually people like Quan will realize she works for the people, not the corporations, although in her case I think her career is over.

[Atypical Liberal]

31. Yup. Wait until spring. n/t

[razorman]

50. I agree. The Occupy movement is not dead. But, neither is the Tea Party. I am a little concerned

about what will happen if both of these movements return in the spring, and happen to hold rallies simultaneously in the same places.

[sarcasmo]

53. Right on.

[lunatica]

30. You're not the 'overwhelming majority'

You're a lone person voicing a negative opinion. Not speaking for the rest of humanity.

But you are entitled to your opinion.

[xiamiam]

46. finger not on the pulse of the nation..need to get out in the streets with real people

if you want to meet those who give a damn.. there are plenty and growing..i'd make a bet if i had any money, that you will be quite surprised in the spring re the support for ows.. a movement that is not going to go away because a the bought and paid for msm and a few on the internets dismiss them

[lumberjack_jeff]

49. We'll see OWS again in the spring, even if it's called something else. n/t

[Webster Green]

6. Hopefully Occupy protests will continue.

Last edited Mon Jan 30, 2012, 03:33 AM - Edit history (1)

All it takes is a few agitators to really heat things up. The police have been known to provide their own, if necessary. It isn't really fair to blame Occupy in general for police rioting.

The general tone of the police response is unacceptable. Even if some people are breaking the law, the OPD have no right to declare it a riot and attack any and all protesters and journalists that they please. They are the ones who are initiating the violence and brutality. They can subdue and arrest people who are actually breaking laws, but they don't need to brutalize them in the process.

The OPD have had the shadow of federal intervention over them for some time for this kind of crap. One would think they would be on their best behavior these days, as they've kind of been on probation. I think they have violated their probation.

Perhaps the feds should take over the OPD and insure that rights are protected, but honestly, I wonder if the feds will be any better. Maybe they will be worse. The DOJ under Obama are pretty brutal themselves.

edit for spelling mistake

[TheWraith]

8. When in doubt, blame the police.

Because it's so much easier than accepting the idea that maybe the protesters, or even just some of the protesters, could EVER have done something wrong.

[Webster Green]

11. Who in the fuck do you think are you rolling your eyes at?

I'm saying not to broad-brush the entire Occupy protests for a few agitators, regardless of if they are police provocateurs or occupy protesters.

And...the police are certainly to blame for needlessly brutal crowd-control and arrest tactics, and if you disagree with that, well...you are just plain wrong.

[TheWraith]

15. Your post seems calculated to put everything on the police.

"The police have been known to provide their own [agitators]"

"police rioting"

"the OPD have no right to declare it a riot"

"They are the ones who are initiating the violence and brutality"

To read your post, you'd never know there was property damage and vandalism, or that the police didn't just start beating and shooting a bunch of random people.

[Webster Green]

18. I stand by all of it.

If you are still clueless about police provocateurs, that is your problem, not mine. There are plenty of documented examples of it.

Yes, the police response is the cause of these violent confrontations. Arrests can be made without going to war. It's done all the time.

Your defense of police brutality is pretty creepy to me. I'm sure we will never agree. How you can defend this shit is beyond me.

[nebenaube]

37. He's not clueless

He appears to be one of the minions.

[2pooped2pop]

19. It's senseless to continue to argue with you

You obviously don't know shit about Occupy. You appear to be another one of those "I workd for a loser Dem that OWS can't support because my dem doens't work "for the peope"

If you have any doubts about the police violence, the provacatuers, or the intention of the OWS, it is obvious that you have not taken any time to educated yourself on the subject. Turying to explain anything to you seems too much like having to talk to a little child. Educate yourself.

[dotymed]

44. Is there anyway un our new DU,

To blockposts from certain people? If I wanted a R\W blog, I would be there.

[randome]

45. If you only want an echo chamber of agreement...

...then you should use the Ignore feature. Often.

Myself, I will never put anyone on Ignore because I want to hear all sides of an issue.

But that's just me.

[Johnson20]

54. Thank you randome. There are a number of folks on DU

that want to completely shut out anything or anyone that differs with their world view.

[randome]

55. And even IF we were all in agreement...

...that wouldn't change the fact that Washington makes the laws that allow our economy to flounder, not the Oakland police department. OWS is fighting the wrong battle, IMO.

[The Doctor.]

12. They aren't OWS protestors.

Whoever they are, they acting on their own impetus and without respect for the aims of the movement. Whether they think they are legitimate protestors, or they are (more likely) agents provocateur, they are not part of OWS anymore than lung cancer is 'part' of your respiratory system.

[TheWraith]

14. Google search for "no true Scotsman."

"Agents provocateur" is a very convenient and often heard excuse for anything at all bad coming out of a protest.

[Webster Green]

20. Deny it all you like.

You are wrong. It's obvious you don't get out much.

[The Doctor.]

25. That was apparently over your head.

I also didn't say that every act was committed by agents provocateur.

I'll take one more stab at it and see if it sinks in:

"Acts committed against the stated goals and methods of the OWS movement are necessarily committed by those who are not part of that movement as by the acts themselves they have separated themselves from the movement."

Is that really not within your ability to understand? I really think you're bright enough to get this.

[xiamiam]

48. right, like marching peacefully..you kill me..nt

[sabrina 1]

59. The OPD, whose reputation for extreme brutality precedes these demonstrations? Who are about

to be taken over by the Feds BECAUSE of their years of brutal abuse of the citizens of Oakland? Who nearly killed two Iraq Veterans peacefully demonstrating as it is their right to do?

Sure, we should give them a pass each time, every day, regardless of OWS, they brutalize citizens. They would never start a riot, which btw, the media reported initially last Saturday those demonstrations as 'A Police Riot'.

A couple of idiots burn a flag, but hey, let's give the OPD the benefit of the doubt. Why should we do that when the Federal Government is not doing so?

[donheld]

62. Aw Dry it up.

[Zorra]

10. How would you know? All you do is post complaints about Occupy all day long

every day.

[SammyWinstonJack]

39. Obvious, isn't it? So eager to jump on the negative bandwagon on any OWS post .

Wonder why? Why would any 99%er wish for the OWS movement to fail.

And clearly the cops incite the violence within marches so that they can use it as an excuse to brutalize and arrest. OWS protesters know this to be a fact.

[Bonobo]

22. Isn't a wraith something like a spook? nt

[Nostradammit]

24. Ding Ding Ding!

[Odin2005]

35. That's because we don't fall for MSM propaganda.

[Pachamama]

2. Playground?

Jean Quan is an idiot.....her comment just emphasizes how out of touch and clueless she is about what the Occupy movement is about and how her actions and role in all this has "played" out....No clue and no leadership or connection to any of what is going on.....

PS: Sorry to see the nice 100yr model bashed in....guess I just think its more upsetting to see 20 yr old kids heads and bodies bashed in by her police forces....

[joshcryer]

4. Propaganda.

[Skittles]

23. has all the earmarks of conservative propaganda

everything is there

[backscatter712]

56. +1.

The corporate media never passes up an opportunity to shit on a progressive movement.

[a simple pattern]

5. Reminds me of the shot of Bush looking out the airplane window

no sense of personal responsibility

[quakerboy]

7. The whole thing is rediculous

You are telling me that police are capable of keeping thousands of protestors from entering an abandoned convention center, but they couldn't keep a handful of protestors from entering city hall after hours?

The whole thing stinks. I'd like to see proof that it was actual occupiers that done the deeds they are smeared for. Not that some of them wouldn't, but the whole things just seems to stink to me. I mistrust it.

[The Doctor.]

9. There are a surprising number of people that seem to get away with very blatant acts.

Like the ones that vandalized a bank, then sent an email claiming responsibility, yet the authorities 'can't seem to track down the IP address and subpoena for the ID of the customer'.

How 'convenient'.

[slay]

16. The rich basically DOMINATE the rest of us and she's worried about a model?

of course the incident shouldn't have happened - but it's about time the issues of #Occupy be taken seriously - they are fighting for their/our future! If a few models of government buildings end up knocked over in the process - it's not even a blip on the radar compared to the real issues we are facing - long term unemployment, low wages, jobs outsourced, huge income inequality, corporate funded elections, etc.

[SammyWinstonJack]

40. Well said!

[roosterpack]

26. this movement.................................

.................isn't dead.

that's my hunch.

agents provocateurs.........................would be no surprise.

those on our side who don't quite understand the true goal of the movement?...............................inevitable.

i'm thinkin spring/summer is going to regenerate a movement that's just sitting in nuetral over the winter months.

best thing i see going is this.................repugs hate the ows. mittens or gingrich take your pick will bloviate the atypical line of trickle down facist bullshit that their corporate master superpacs tell them to in order to discredit ows once their farcical nomination process is over.

i'm seeing this movement getting on a roll.

the negative portrayal in the corporate owned media should be ignored.

democracy can get kinda ugly at times.

blood get's spilled.

property gets damaged.

it's all good.

[fasttense]

27. The occupy events and protests are just getting started.

It's going to get worst. Both the brutality of the police and the number of protests, are going to escalate. Despite what some posters who never attended a rally say, Occupy will be a force throughout the presidential election. It has to. There are no longer any alternatives.

Just look at our American society. No jobs for young adults. Their unemployment numbers are huge. College is so expensive only rich idiots can afford it without taking out crushing debt. What is left for our youth? They can't get jobs, they can't get an education, returning vets come home to joblessness.

The political class is ignoring their complaints. The prevailing business model is criminal cons and scams. The voting machines are rigged and inaccurate. The government enforcement agencies are corrupted. It is a recipe for civil unrest. Every society in history that has allowed their youth to become idle and hopeless has seen a revolt. The powers that be, the 1%, have closed off all the exits. There will be protests in the street. It is a foregone conclusion.

Now exactly how the protests will play out is anyone’s guess.

[Earth_First]

32. This.

Like it or not, love it or leave it.

The same folks who are praising the Egyptian revolution are the same one denouncing Occupy.

Right on cue, they'll regurtitate the differences in situations and pat themselves on the back on the way out.

Well, how far down the rabbit hole do we allow this to get in our country before we *are* what they stood up against in Egypt?

Should we continue to be spoonfed and pacified by The Corporatocracy?

How much longer...?

Kudos to Occupy!

I don't agree with the violence, but I have a tendancy to believe that there are forces at work (long at work) to make this turn ugly.

It's almost to the point where the folks who are anti-Occupy can fuck right off when the Occupy movement is legitimized; many say they already have been.

So when they fix it: FUCK YOU! You can keep playing the rigged game without us...

[carla]

29. Jean Quan is a viper.

She declares the movement infantile and emotional by her choice of words. This was no "tantrum", this was politically motivated vandalism, the protestors are not children. City Hall is not being used as a "playground", as she states. It is being used as a battleground by citizens determined to change the course of society and history. The Occupy Movement is a people's movement. The "authorities" will keep painting it as inconsequential, but last Monday, there was no broken model on the floor and Jean felt safe on her thrown. Maybe next Monday, there will be no City hall to stand in and say such stupidities? Power to the people. That's right...to the PEOPLE.

And to The Wraith, "law and order" is what the citizens say it is, not what the state says it is. Laws flow from our needs to their bills, don't forget it. Police riot...

[Odin2005]

34. More anti-Occupy spin.

That picture is propaganda.

[slackmaster]

36. That's a really sad situation all around. I don't see any good coming from it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

42. +1000.

Silly isn't it. Broken model....but never mind all the broken lives directly a result of the greedy 1%.

[randome]

43. What's silly is thinking vandalising City Hall has anything to do with economic justice.

[wordpix]

51. and then taxpayers have to pay to repair the damage

NOT a positive way to get people to listen to your arguments

[randome]

52. Nope.

That doesn't even address the fact that they are trying to convince the WRONG PEOPLE. If OWS convinced every single person in the Oakland city government that economic justice is needed, what would change?

Nothing.

Because the people who are responsible for our current mess are the legislators in Washington.

It isn't stealing when our legislators say, "Here. Take what you want."

I don't know how best to get their attention but this kind of approach is definitely wrong.

[JAD]

41. I'm putting my money where my mouth is

I'm putting my money where my mouth is and not vacationing in any state that has cracked down on Occupy protesters like Portland, OR and Oakland, CA.

I am the 99% forever (unless I win Powerball.)

[Scurrilous]

47. More fascist propaganda:

Occupy Oakland’s Violent Turn Proves the Movement Has Lost Its Way

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/01/30/occupy-oakland-s-violent-turn-proves-the-movement-has-lost-its-way.html

With 400 people arrested during Occupy Oakland’s violent protest over the weekend, the movement is in danger of losing its idealistic base, writes U.C. Berkley student Christopher Haugh.

<snip>

"The Occupy movement took a step backwards on the streets of Oakland, California this past weekend.

Late last year, the Occupy movement was novel and hopeful. People from all walks of life rallied to the cause from coast to coast. College students were especially drawn to the movement seeing their long struggle for fair tuition reflected in its amorphous demands against inequality. One couldn’t help but get wrapped up in the energy of such a diverse movement willing to absorb any offense against the other 99 percent.

I attended the first Oakland Port shutdown last December to witness the power of Occupy Oakland for myself. I saw young and old alike marching peacefully through the streets in the wake of the violent encounter with police a few days before. Instead of responding with violence of their own, the protestors shut down the port with decorum. At each gated entrance for over a mile, people sat and discussed the issues de jure peacefully with cops looking on. That day a statement was made.

Saturday’s chaos, on the other hand, was difficult to watch. TV footage showed a violent scene. Both police and occupiers acted with disregard for civility. Tear gas was launched at protestors as chairs were thrown back. The whole scene looked more like a civil war than a non-violent march.

It’s not easy to parse through the disorder of a protest gone terribly wrong. When 400 people are arrested, Oakland City Hall is left in tatters and an American flag is burned on its steps, blame tends to be difficult to assign. But in this case, police and protestors alike are culpable for the mayhem on the streets.

And, in the face of this debacle, young people are recoiling."

[backscatter712]

57. A member of the College Republicans? n/t

[annabanana]

58. I want to know EXACTLY WHICH INDIVIDUALS are responsible

for the flag burnings and the rest of the vandalism. And then I want to see who they work for. If they are real OWSers they should be ashamed. If they are NOT, I want the black flaggers exposed.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

60. Breaking into a building? Come on people, use your brains.

Who here believes that Occupy would achieve their goals in a matter of months?
Think before you act, violence is not good for any movement.
Let me be clear here, I am very pro Occupy, it's probably our best last chance to bring about meaningful change not only for the US, but for the entire world as well.
But it sounds like a lot of folks are accustomed to fast food and want an instant fix for problems that took decades to reach this point.
To work, Occupy MUST REMAIN NONVOILENT.
The Occupy movement must win over the hearts and minds of a lot more people, including the police.
It can only do this by using brains instead of brawn and not burning flags.
OCCUPY EVERYWHERE !

[Skittles]

61. that model

represents the American middle class