Attorney general, Republicans spar over ‘Fast and Furious’ at congressional hearing

[alp227]

Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. testified Thursday for more than four hours on Capitol Hill in a showdown with House Republicans, who threatened to hold him in contempt if he does not quickly turn over more documents on a botched gun operation.

During a morning of partisan theater, the Republicans on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee criticized Holder’s management style, interrogated him about internal e-mails, and demanded to know what Justice officials knew about “Operation Fast and Furious” and when they knew it. The Democrats, in turn, defended Holder, advocated stronger gun control laws and accused their GOP colleagues of grandstanding.

By midmorning, after several spirited exchanges in the packed hearing room, Holder showed his frustration.

“This has become political,” Holder said, pointing his finger at one of the committee members. “There is no attempt at any cover-up. We have shared huge amounts of information.”

full: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/attorney-general-republicans-spar-over-fast-and-furious-at-congressional-hearing/2012/02/02/gIQA0t0XlQ_story.html

[gateley]

1. Was this on C-Span? If so, did anyone see it? nt

[onehandle]

2. Republicans pandering to their under-endowed constituency of lunatics.

Color me surprised.

[DCKit]

3. It's political theater.

And, as long as they're busy with this in DC, Democratic candidates (hopefully, progressive (D)s) are looking to take away their seats.

We don't want them home on the campaign trail.

[cbrer]

4. Ummm...Excuse me?

AG Holder- The fact that these events took place at all is not political. Blow all the smoke and mirrors you wish. This was a criminal act perpetrated by the Federal government that was directly responsible for at least 1 border patrolman's death.

What were they trying to make us think? Hate Mexicans? Hate guns? Hate gun dealers? Hate gun laws? Hmmm, seems to be a theme here...

[IndyJones]

5. I totally agree. Holder needs to cough up the requested documents.

Enough of his BS. People have lost their lives because of it. He should be held accountable.

[yellowcanine]

9. I watched part of the hearing yesterday. Holder isn't the problem here.

Issa is clearly in over his head. He doesn't know how to conduct a hearing and he doesn't know what to do with the documents he has. Some documents are relevant, others aren't. And some need to be given to Congress, others don't. Issa also clearly has little understanding of how the Justice Dept works. The IG is better situated to investigate this situation than Congress. And the NY Congresswoman who asked, "How many agents have to die before the AG acts?" was grandstanding and way out of line. Holder smacked her down, as he should have.

[karynnj]

7. No one says the program was good - what they are saying is that the ATF is troubled

Not everything in every agency under the Justice Department has every action sent up and approved by the Attorney General. But, you may want to turn off Sean Hannity and the others and look at the timing and why the ATF is a dysfunctional agency.

Fast & Furious is an idiotic, immoral program, started when Bush was President in ATF. The Republicans blocked not just Obama's choice to head ATF , BUT Bush's choice to head the ATF. ( http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/06/nation/la-na-atf-director-20110907 ) This because the NRA has been against everyone nominated. Though Senator Grassley says that not having a confirmed head would have not made a difference, that is speculation. Note that the acting head was also only part time. It would seem that a confirmed, full time head of the organization would have more authority to set the agenda. The problem here is that ATF is a troubled organization - and it was so in the 1990s. The NRA's actions precluded the possibility that a good, strong head could have reset the organization's goals. The real problem is that the NRA, not wanting any regulation of guns, used its power to make the organization dysfunctional.

I think the BEST move that Holder could do is to make it an issue that the ATF has not had a new CONFIRMED head since the 1990s and call on them to approve the man that Obama nominated to go there and clean up the agency and insure that stupid programs like this are not even suggested. The man nominated worked for ATF and has a good reputation. It is time to demand that Congress ignore the NRA.

[PavePusher]

12. Actually, it's time to shut down the ATF, the only government agency specifically created...

...to restrict a Constitutional Right. Move Alcohol and Tobbacco under the FDA where they belong, put Explosives under the FBI or OSHA, and get the government the hell out of the gun business altogether. I really can't think of a single useful thing they've done.

[ellisonz]

14. "A well-regulated Militia"

[sylveste]

15. and ?

gonna need a little more to go on than that.

[PavePusher]

18. Wonk, wonk, wonk?

Please diagram the entire sentance and explain how the prefatory clause is a limitation.

You may need to revert to quantum mechanics and do your parsing on the Schwarzschild radius of a local black hole.

[cbrer]

13. Was the way they delivered a warrant in Waco Tx idiotic and immoral too?

Under the Clinton administration? Janet Reno just wants to have fun!

What about Ruby Ridge where the ATF killed some nut job's family because he acted like a nut?

This has been a loose cannon for a long time now. Fuck Republican or Democrat line drawing. This nation is becoming more out of control. More stratified. And being diminished in most humanly beneficial categories. And we're playing politics? We got a Nobel peace prize winner elected for God's sake. He just happens to love drones and black ops.

Sorry, no pass for you. Brian Terry's family are just the latest Americans with a dead body and the Fed. Gov. to thank for it. The BATF needs to GO!

Not even opening the discussion on DOD.

[libodem]

6. Didn't this start under Bushitler?

All the gun lobby cares about is selling arms and cashing in.

[karynnj]

8. The NRA has blocked confirmation on all ATF heads

since the 1990s. Is it any wonder that low level ATF people are able to do things that any sensible head would have rejected in an instant?

[Lurks Often]

10. Not exactly

There was a similiar, but smaller program under the prior adminstration. It involved 400-500 guns, the Mexican government was notified and cooperated with the program and RFID chips were put into the guns in attempt to track them. When the program was found to be unsuccessful it was shut down.

Fast & Furious involved about 2000's of guns, the Mexican government was not notified, gun stores were ordered to make sales that the gunstore felt was questionable and there was no apparent attempt to track the guns once they crossed the border. Two of the guns sold as part of Fast & Furious were found at the scene where US Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was killed.

Here is a link to the LA Times (Hardly a right wing paper) about their investigation into Fast & Furious:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/atf-fast-furious-sg,0,3828090.storygallery

[libodem]

11. Man

What a mess. The inmates are running the asylum. That agency has seen better days. It should be absorbed into the other bloated alphabet agencies dealing with security, if they can't select a leader. We have a rep from Idaho trying to make a name for himself with the teaparty, by dogging the AG.

[sylveste]

16. absofrigginlutely,

and people wonder why the government cant seem to operate on the money it takes in. inmates running the insylum indeed, it's insane.

[OVERPAID01]

17. Held in contempt of congress...

I am confused, what can congress do? Take away his parking priveleges? The threat is useless, you are in contempt!!!, no parking validation for you! Had to edit to add this opinion as well, if Janet Reno can kill all those kids in Waco without congrssional impeachment, I certainly doubt that they can do a thing now.

[Lurks Often]

19. The House can impeach him

, essentially an indictment, by a simple majority. It is then sent to the Senate, which is the trial, which requires a 2/3 rds majority to remove Holder from office.

"On Oct. 26, 2009, the directors of the FBI, the Drug Enforcement Administration and ATF and the top federal prosecutors in the Southwestern border states met with the deputy attorney general at the Justice Department to plot strategy for combating Mexican cartels" Page 1 at the following link to the Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-anti-gunrunning-effort-turns-fatally-wrong/2011/07/14/gIQAH5d6YI_story.html

So the heads of 3 Federal law enforcement agencies and the #2 man in the Dept of Justice meet via teleconference in October of 2009, decide to proceed with Fast & Furious and Attorney General Holder doesn't know about it? I can only come to one of two conclusions: Either Holder knew and lied under oath, in which case he should be impeached and removed from office and face jail time for perjury or Holder is so incompetent that he is unable to supervise the heads of the ATF, DEA & FBI and his second in command at DOJ, in which case he should be fired or forced to resign

Additionally, this operation crossed our border with Mexico, without the knowledge of the Mexican government and has resulted in the deaths of Mexican citizens and death of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.

These aren't Republican slanders, these are facts based on the reporting of two major newspapers: The LA Times and the Washington Post, neither newspaper being known for having a right wing slant to their reporting.

It was the cover up to Watergate that led to Nixon resigning before he was impeached. To date Operation Fast & Furious has been under reported by most of the major news media. When this starts getting pushed hard, probably around May or June of this year, what do you think the average voter is going to think?