U.S. to send Patriot missiles, F-16s to Jordan

[jakeXT]

Source: UPI

WASHINGTON, June 3 (UPI) -- Deployment of a Patriot missile battery and F-16 fighter jets to Jordan was approved over the weekend, a U.S. Central Command spokesman said.

Delivery of the weaponry, as part of a multinational training exercise, was approved by U.S. Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel, CNN said Monday, noting a broader message is being sent.

"In order to enhance the defensive posture and capacity of Jordan, some of these assets may remain beyond the exercise at the request of the government of Jordan," said Lt. Col. T.G. Taylor, a spokesman at the U.S. Central Command.

The missiles, which will be sent from Fort Bliss, Texas, can provide Jordan defensive capabilities as concern grows that Syrian missiles are being shipped to Hezbollah in nearby Lebanon, CNN said. It added the F-16s and their crews will train with Jordanian combat air forces




Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/06/03/US-to-send-Patriot-missiles-F-16s-to-Jordan/UPI-91471370287200

[cheapdate]

1. King Abdullah of Jordan seems like a decent, intelligent person.

I've heard him speak on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart several times and other places as well. I like him.

[happyslug]

4. So also was Hitler, by the reports of people who meet him

Thus what the King says is often less important then what he does.

The Wikipedia site on the King, is nothing by praise, but loose on facts. Brags about the King Decision to make it illegal to Jail journalists, while ignoring that such a law had existed and used (and the King can reverse that decision at any time, i.e. no jail for journalist, unless the king decides to do so, the same rule as before he "abolishment" of such jailing of Journalists).

The Wikipedia even brags about his Military, saying his decision to buy Challenger I tanks from Britain show he has adopted a "quality over quantity" in regards to his army, and then saying "the ground forces have acquired the Challenger 1 main battle tank,] a vehicle far superior to the T-72/55 tanks that have traditionally dominated Arab armies."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_II_of_Jordan

The problem is Jordan NEVER used Soviet equipment, it used American M-60s tanks NOT Soviet T-72s. Jordan has always been ruled by a small elite whose biggest fears is a revolt by its own people as oppose to being attacked from elsewhere. Thus the decision to go with "quality over quantity" is based on the fact he does NOT trust his own people to support him (Which is the same position his father took when he ruled Jordan).

As to other freedoms, including the right for people to vote for their political leaders, here is wikipedia's position on "Democracy" in Jordan"

"In 2005 BBC international published an article titled "Jordan edging towards democracy", where King Abdullah expressed his intentions of making Jordan a democratic country. According to the article, president George W. Bush "urged King Abdullah, a U.S. ally, to take steps towards democracy."Thus far, however, democratic development has been limited, with the monarchy maintaining most power and its allies dominating parliament.

Elections were held in November 2010, and following the Arab Spring 2011, a new prime minister was appointed. In June 2011 the King has announced a move to a British style of Cabinet Government but it is still under debate.

i.e. this Parliament, like the one's his father occasionally held, are tools to keep the people loyal by making the appearance that he is permitting majority rule, and give them a place to voice their opinion, but all real power remains with the King.

King Abdullah II is a Dictator, he does NOT have to be bloody at the present time, but can be if violence is called for (Black September is a good example of that tendency).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan

There is a tendency to blame Arafat and the PLO for Black September, but all they wanted was majority rule, and given they were the majority, King Hussein (the present King's Father) objected.

As to the Government:

The last parliamentary elections were held on 23 January 2013. Because of a history of rigged elections, government critics have dismissed them as merely cosmetic. Some opposition groups, including the largest, the Jordanian Muslim Brotherhood, and the protest network known as Hirak boycotted the vote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/22/world/middleeast/as-elections-near-protesters-in-jordan-increasingly-turn-anger-toward-the-king.html?ref=middleeast

Sorry, I am NOT impressed by King Abdullah, appears to be a US lackey dictator (and that appears to be the attitude of most residents of Jordan)..

[cheapdate]

6. So was Hitler!!!

Abdullah is the hereditary ruler of the Jordanian monarchy. He is moving carefully toward more liberal democracy. The Hitler comparison is fucking nonsense.

[happyslug]

8. Carefully moving, or doing what he has to to stay in power?

You comment was he was "decent, intelligent person" is the same comment made by others as to Hitler. That is the only point I was making, in effect it is a meaningless observation. Winston Churchill once was asked to visit Hitler when both were in the same hotel (this is mid 1930s). Churchill declined for he needed his sleep. He later commented that if he had meet Hitler, he may have been seduced by Hitler's persona like so many other people.

That is the comparison with Hitler. Sounding like a "decent, intelligent person" is characteristic of most dictators and psychopaths. All I was pointing out the term, a "decent, intelligent person" is meaningless, it is a judgement on his what he appears to be NOT what he is.

As to his moves to Democracy, the reports (which I did cite) indicate it is more a move in reaction to what is happening in Jordan then what he is doing. Direct elections are held, but are gerrymandered worse then the GOP has done in the US. The King has tried to minimize the power of the people in Jordan who are more actually classified as "Palestinians". The King's power base are the Bedouin tribes of the eastern part of Jordan, who he favors, while permitting Israel to steal water from the farmers and shepherds from Western Jordan (Which is the main threat against his rule, Western Jordan wants to unite with the West Bank for rivers unite people, they do not divide people, and this is especially true of people living is semi-desert conditions like both sides of the Jordan River).

The Capital of Jordan is on line where Rains from the Mediterranean cease to go, and you switch from pasture mixed with farmers to traditional Bedouin lifestyle. Thus the King is between two groups, to his West is the larger mixed farming and pasture people who have more in common with the Palestinians of the West Bank then people East of the Capital. To the East you start into the Bedouin tribes of Arabia.

Amman (Ancient Greek Name, Philadelphia).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amman#History

Whoever rules Jordan has to keep these two groups happy, and that is impossible if there is any crisis (which generally involves water). Thus the heavy hands of the King (both the father Hussein, and the Son Abdullah). At all cost such rulers want they power base secure (thus the Bedouins are given preference). Thus the reluctance to go to Democracy, for if Jordan would turn into a Democracy, not only would the king be kicked out, so would be his main base of support, the Bedouins (and BOTH the Kings and his supports know this). How fast do you go Democratic, when you know when you go Democratic you will lose power? Not that fast and not that complete, which is what this King is doing, dragging his feet so he can stay in power as long as possible.

Side note: I use the term Farmers, Shepherds and Bedouins to describe how the power is shared in Jordan. Most of these Farmers, Shepherds and Bedouins no longer farm or herd, but live in Cities. I use the term for that is the groups they are tied in with and while urban dwellers today, most still belong to these groups.

[cheapdate]

9. Doubling down with the Hitler reference, I see.

Last edited Tue Jun 4, 2013, 01:10 PM - Edit history (1)

Part two of your argument that Abdullah ii ibn Al-Hussein, King of Jordan (Georgetown University, Oxford University, author of Our Last Best Chance: The Pursuit of Peace in a Time of Peril; spouse - Queen Rania Al Abdullah who was named UNICEF's first Eminent Advocate for Children, named Honorary Global Chair of the United Nations Girls’ Education Initiative, co-founder of 1GOAL: Education for All, etc.) is aptly to be compared to Adolph Hitler.

No thanks.

[John2]

10. I'll tell you

what. In any kind of reality based world, there is no such thing as a Democracy under a King or Queen. It is a monarchy. Study the Age of Monarchies. Even though the British monarchy has none to very little power, it is only for symbolism, because of the British people love of the past. King Abdullah's ancestor was coronated and installed by the British for political purposes. If he wants a Democracy, then abdicate.

[cheapdate]

16. We're not living in "The Age of Monarchies",

Last edited Tue Jun 4, 2013, 04:14 PM - Edit history (1)

we're living in the present day, and in the present day there is such a thing as a democracy under a King or Queen, as for instance in Great Britain or Sweden (which oddly you observed in apparent contradiction to your own "reality based world" pronouncement.)

Abdullah Al-Hussien leads a country in a volatile part of the world. There are both internal and external tensions and forces at play in Jordan that can't be ignored in the "reality based world".

I'll say it again, I've heard the King speak at length about his aspirations for the people of Jordan and the future of the Jordanian state, the challenges facing his country and the larger region, etc. It's my opinion that he is an intelligent and decent person. I wish him the best.

[Adsos Letter]

17. +1

[Lasher]

18. A lucid and compelling argument.

How refreshing. You should post more often.

Lasher

[Pterodactyl]

25. Good point!

[Alamuti Lotus]

21. And you sound like somebody who is easily mislead..

the dictator appreciates such naivety, I am sure.

[cheapdate]

22. Your petulant remarks are scarcely worth any response.

Character attacks like yours don't require any thought, reflection, or insight into the subject at hand. All that's required is a willingness to be a complete ass.

[Alamuti Lotus]

23. And yet, you responded..

Apparently, my remarks were worth a little more than they might otherwise be given credit for.

So you saw King Playstation ham it up on the Daily Show--do you know how his government operates on a regular basis? Do you realize how ridiculous that first argument appears?

[cheapdate]

24. Apparently, you believe that I am a more interesting topic

Last edited Wed Jun 5, 2013, 05:42 PM - Edit history (1)

of discussion than the state of Jordan or US relations with that country and its leader. Maybe I should be flattered by your keen interest in not the content of my opinions, but rather in the personal process by which I arrived at them. But I'm neither flattered nor impressed.

King Abdullah has appeared on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart twice -- in 2010 and in 2012. He spoke with great clarity and in much detail about his country, its people and its politics, important developments in other countries in the region including the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Iran, and Iraq, and a number of other subjects as well.

My present opinion of King Abdullah is that he is an intelligent and decent person. My opinion of you, however, based on our interactions to date, is that you are a person prone to making scurrilous and specious charges and false assumptions that often lead you to incorrect conclusions.

[carla]

2. This is how

world wars start. I hope I am wrong in my analysis and reading of history, but it is precisely through this kind of "security through strength" strategy that countries get dragged into entanglements. The big players may not be able to avoid the tangle.

[silvershadow]

12. I hope you are wrong too.

I see your thought was strong enough to bring you out of your cave. You've been a member since 2001, with a moderately low post count. I have been here from the beginning too. My post count was about like yours until the last two election cycles. I otherwise don't post much, but I always jump in when I can. I just cannot stomach another war, let alone the big one. I sure hope somebody is planning on pulling some other levers.

[loyalsister]

15. What a heartbreaking trajectory that would be

From Arab spring and blooming democracies to world war.

[L0oniX]

3. What's next? Do they expect Russia to just sit by and watch this shit go on and not counter it?

[Earth_First]

5. Russia is already supplying defenses in the region... n/t

[L0oniX]

13. I wasn't born under a rock.

[Pterodactyl]

26. Another question would be is America going to sit by and not counter what Russia is doing?

[Purveyor]

27. Yeah baby! Let us go to war with Russia. Bring it on, whoop, whoop!!! /sarcasm off eom

[Pterodactyl]

29. OK, you are right. We should wihtdraw from the world and let the bad guys take over.

[Purveyor]

30. Oh yes, the USA is as 'pure as the driven snow'. PUKE!!! eom

[Pterodactyl]

31. Never said that. No nation is pure as the driven snow.

The closest to purity is Canada. Or possibly Switzerland. But, just because we're not perfect does not mean we should do nothing. If that were the case HITLER would have taken over.

[L0oniX]

28. Whatever ...Syria had already done the deal with Russia ...they are just now going to deliver.

But it's cool for Israel to have nukes and bomb other countries. I'm sure the pro US military assholes are delighted at the prospect of getting it on with Russia. No amount of killing and bombing is enough for the US. War is good for capitalism and the Wall Street stock holders.

[Chef Eric]

7. The shareholders of Lockheed Martin should be pleased. nt

[L0oniX]

14. Congressional shareholders of Lockheed Martin should also be very pleased.

[bluedigger]

11. First taste is free!

Nobody pushes weapons like we do.

[olddad56]

19. A peacekeeping maneuver by the US, no doubt

[Taverner]

20. Clusterfuck Part III (or is it IV?) here we go