Japan seeks to develop its offensive capability

[bananas]

Source: China Network Television (CNTV)

Japan’s ruling Liberal Democratic Party is compiling a new set of defense guidelines that would allow the country’s armed forces to develop an offensive capability.

The guidelines will grant the country’s defense forces with the right to launch strikes at the missile bases of a potential enemy. A research committee headed by the vice minister of the Ministry of Defense Akinori Eto will hold a discussion on this proposal.

Eto is expected to visit the United States in July, in a bid to hold talks over Japan’s new national defense program guidelines and on the revision of US-Japan defense cooperation.

Read more: http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20130611/100477.shtml

[Cooley Hurd]

1. gulp!

[Deep13]

2. If they want more offense, just keep killing dolphins and making tentacle porn cartoons. nt

[AsahinaKimi]

3. Japan has been doing this for years...

[TheMightyFavog]

6. Why is it that the JGSDF soldiers in Godzilla movies always wear white gloves?

Is it the same reason the Science Patrol always wore ties in combat?

[freshwest]

27. IDK. Who's Space Godzilla?

[freshwest]

26. OMG!! I've always loved Godzilla movies. Thanks AsahinaKimi!

Gotta go to youtube and see what happens next, that gave me the chills! Woohoo!

[AsahinaKimi]

28. Me too...

YES INDEED

[Nanjing to Seoul]

4. This is the everyday Chinese person's biggest fear. . .a Japan with offensive capabilities

I had to spend four hours with my wife explaining how Japan cannot and will not attack anyone due to treaty ending WW2 and how if they do, they violate the treaty and war may start up again.

Here in China, the Chinese (forgot the CCP or the government) people still have a deep rooted fear that Japan will attack again. This will not make people here happy.

BTW, the LDP is as liberal as Bush was. . .nice misnomer for a jingoistic, ultra-nationalistic, right wing political party.

[Art_from_Ark]

5. The LDP is right-wing,

but it is hardly in the same league as bu$h. I think you are confusing it with the Japanese Restoration Party.

[Fumesucker]

9. I imagine the Koreans aren't all that thrilled about this new development either n/t

[Nanjing to Seoul]

10. From my SN, you can tell I lived in both Korea and live in China now

From what my friends in Suwon and Bucheon tell me, if they could, Koreans would storm the Japanese embassy. They are pissed over Dokdo and this perceived aggression makes things worse.

[Bonobo]

15. Exactly. They would.

But NO Japanese think about storming Korean or Chinese embassies.

So who really has something to fear from whom.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

17. now, Show us all photos of Unit 731, the Rape of Nanking, the destruction of Suwon palace

the forced prostitution of Korean and Chinese women, the enslavement of Chinese and Korean men, the littering the ground with pathogens, the distribution of drug laced candy to Chinese and Korean children. . .and then the complete denial of their past.

Before you smack around anti-Chinese propaganda on someone who lives in China and is married to a woman whose families was victimized and brutalized by the Japanese (her great grandmother was gang raped by honorable Japanese soldiers), please understand that I have no issues with the Chinese's abject distrust and dislike for the people that went to war with them and brutalized them twice in the past 125 years.

If Japan openly admitted its mistakes like Germany did, there would be a healing. But they don't. . .and recently, the mayor of Osaka said that forced prostitution was good for Japanese solder morale.

[Bonobo]

18. Japanese have not only apologized many times

but they have paid and paid and paid money.

But the real point is that you are describing history and we are talking about the world as it exists.

You said that the Chinese and Koreans are afraid of a re-armed Japan and I say that it is silly -that the real threat is China and that their behavior makes that apparent.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

20. They have paid next to nothing. I've seen the figures. . .and with the payment, they stop

short of acknowledging anything they did in China.

Again, the anti-Chinese sentiment I see on this board sickens me. I guess the right wing and and left wing has their new boogeyman.

As for the Chinese actions. . .trust me. . .PAPER TIGER!!! Their military looks good in their uniforms, but that's it. Trust me from living here for six years. PAPER TIGER!

[Bonobo]

21. The Chinese government is quite happy

to use Japan as their eternal boogeyman to divert attention away from criticism of their own government.

It will not end no matter what Japan does because it is too convenient.

The level of hatred that continues to exist in China vs. Japan is not merely due to past offenses --it is a reflection of intentional propaganda and demonization by the authorities and it is a serious danger.

Last month when the Chinese patrol ships used their lock on radar against Japanese ships and helicopters, the shit almost hit the fan. It is the equivalent of pointing a loaded gun at a person's head and really means the shit is ON.

How long until it actually starts something?

So who is the threat? That is the question. The boiling anger combined with the kind of maverick behavior is a recipe for disaster.

And by the way, no one in Japan engages in making fake eggs, poison baby milk powder, plastic bubble tea tapioca pearls an the like. So don't pretend like that type of critique is without merit. It says something about SOME people or tendencies in China. It is not everyone, but it does reflect SOMETHING.

As for apologies, though. Japan HAS apologized several times. Even the Emperor apologized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

[Nanjing to Seoul]

22. The apologies come short of acknowledging actual regret. I've read them in Japanese

and it's an non-apology apology. "Here, take this money if anything we did might have hurt you. We are sincerely sorry if what we did hurt you."

No apologies for raping women. No apologies for the Rape of Nanking, Sook Ching, the Jiangxi-Zhejiang campaign where 2.5 million died for saving 63 American pilots. No apologies for Singapore, where Chinese were executed for having tattoos.

Again, this is my PhD. You are arguing the wrong battle with me.

As for China starting something. . .it won't happen. Again, I LIVE IN CHINA!!! It will not happen!

As for their Government. . .most people in China view them as corrupt murderers.

[Bonobo]

24. First of all, you didn't address anything in my post

other than personal ("trust me...&quot that nothing will happen. So that's pretty meaningless and the facts on the ground suggest there is plenty of reason for concern.

In addition, your description of the apologies as non-apologies is a real mischaracterization. Here are some (but not all) of the MANY apologies AND these are JUST IN the 90's. There are at least half a dozen similar ones also in the 90's, an equal amount in the next decade and continuing today. They sound like full, complete and unreserved apologies anyway you slice it.
----------------------------------------------
- Emperor Akihito. "Reflecting upon the suffering that your people underwent during this unfortunate period, which was brought about by our nation, I cannot but feel the deepest remorse" (Meeting with President Roh Tae Woo).

-Prime Minister Kiichi Miyazawa. "[Concerning the comfort women,] I apologize from the bottom of my heart and feel remorse for those people who suffered indescribable hardships"

-Prime Minister Kiichi Miyazawa. "We the Japanese people, first and foremost, have to bear in our mind the fact that your people experienced unbearable suffering and sorrow during a certain period in the past because of our nation's act, and never forget the feeling of remorse. I, as a prime minister, would like to once again express a heartfelt remorse and apology to the people of your nation"

-Prime Minister Kiichi Miyazawa. "What we should not forget about relationship between our nation and your nation is a fact that there was a certain period in the thousands of years of our company when we were the victimizer and you were the victim. I would like to once again express a heartfelt remorse and apology for the unbearable suffering and sorrow that you experienced during this period because of our nation's act." Recently the issue of the so-called 'wartime comfort women' is being brought up. I think that incidents like this are seriously heartbreaking, and I am truly sorry"

-Prime Minister Morihiro Hosokawa. "I myself believe it was a war of aggression, a war that was wrong"

-Prime Minster Hosokawa: ..."we would like to express our deep remorse and apology for the fact that invasion and colonial rule by our nation in the past brought to bear great sufferings and sorrow upon many people"

-Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama. "The problem of the so-called wartime comfort women is one such scar, which, with the involvement of the Japanese military forces of the time, seriously stained the honor and dignity of many women. This is entirely inexcusable. I offer my profound apology to all those who, as wartime comfort women, suffered emotional and physical wounds that can never be closed"

[Art_from_Ark]

38. Thanks for that list, Bonobo

[Bonobo]

39. And there are probably at least 20-30 more apologies like that.

As I said that was just the early 90's. It has been consistent.

[LanternWaste]

53. A list of Japanese War Apologies...

"If Japan openly admitted its mistakes like Germany did, there would be a healing. But they don't..."


A list of Japanese War Apologies (more specifically, within the list are numerous instances of official apologies made by Japan to both South Kora and China over the last fifty years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

[Democracyinkind]

52. Bingo.

Japanese nationalism of that type is still marginal. It is a huge difference that isn't often acknowledged.

On the other hand, maybe some of the anger could have been avoided if the Japanese had pursued a more open and apologetic policy toward its neighbors... But the root cause of that lies in the Cold War so it's probably not a fair yoke for the Japanese to carry all by themselves.

I think you made an important point. Never mind my rambling.

[LanternWaste]

51. Much as the Norwegians were not too thrilled regrading German reunification?

Much as the Norwegians were not too thrilled regrading German reunification?

[freshwest]

29. Sorry about your wife. Still so much trauma from WW2. But I don't think anything will happen.

to her and from America.

I was unaware of the nature of the LDP, too.

[Art_from_Ark]

40. The LDP is hardly "ultranationalistic" or "jingoistic"

It is right-wing, but hardly the same caliber of bu$h and his ilk. The ultra-right-wing party is the Japan Reformation Party, which currently holds 53 of the 474 seats in the Lower House of the Japanese parliament (Diet) and only 3 of the 229 seats of the Upper House. Its public approval rating has been decreasing significantly this year, and is currently hovering below 2%.

[freshwest]

42. Main thing is if they don't promote a war. The world is much more interconnected and I don't see how

going to war with any of its neighbors or anywhere else, for that matter, would benefit Japan in any way.

Like China, Japan has played its cards very well with trade and has prospered, which is usually the reason for wars traditionally.

It seems that no matter how much we want out of it, some nations or rather factions, seem to want us to get involved. I'm not sure what the future of American actions abroad are going to be, but with the increasing pressure for survival due to population, resource depletion and pollution, we can't afford to waste energy on destroying things.

War is too wasteful, the benefits uneven, and most of the human race has no interest. Wait, doh, what am I thinking?

It appears some people are thinking in terms of taking over he world, as always. Not sure what to do with that, some are willing to die for what they think is going to be a better world if everyone does exactly whatever it is that they want. Ugh...

But I don't think the Japanese will fall into that. Nor the Chinese, at least not with Japan or the USA. We are too close with trade, which is why some people thought all these trade agreeements were good. If you are dependent with another country and getting along with that, why ruin your market on either side?

[TheMightyFavog]

7. Didn't the Japanese just put a couple of aircraft carr-- I mean, "Helicopter Destroyers" into action

Ya know, if we ever got the freaking VSTOL version of the Joint Strike Fighter to actually work, Japan could have a real carrier again...

[AsahinaKimi]

8. Oh i love it...

Hericopta Destroyaa !!!

[freshwest]

30. Got be better than the USA made 'Godzilla does NYC' or whatever. I thought it was awful.

[AsahinaKimi]

32. Mathew Broderick

Was cute but yeah, that movie sucked. Infact, ...well there is this...

[freshwest]

34. Ah, ha! That was good. I gotta say with the NYC, I was rooting for Godzilla to kill the screamers.

The Japanese versions were always better.

I bought that newer one for a my kid and I was embarrased.

Kid likes campy monster flicks like Doctor Who and the Daleks, but that was not well acted.

I like this one. (*swoons* at male lead)

Is this one you posted a music video, or is there a movie, too?

[AsahinaKimi]

35. It was the last Godzilla movie made by Toho

Final Wars

[freshwest]

36. Chills! Both of them. I have to go to Amazon and find that movie. Thanks!

[Angleae]

14. That's them. They even named them after a pair of WW2 battleships.

The first ships named after the ancient provinces since WW2 (Hyuga & Ise). They also have one or two larger ships under construction.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Ok, ok, what gives? I swear this real news is in a fictional timing around

This time...next I know ASEAN will become what I wrote.

[Franker65]

12. The Germans have had an offensive capability for years

I think this makes sense for Japan considering Chinese and North Korean militarisation. Just because there is an offensive capability, that does not mean they will use it. It just gives the option of a pre-emptive strike.

[Art_from_Ark]

13. Yeah, Japan isn't about to invade anyone

or start a pre-emptive war. It's more about keeping China and North Korea at bay.

[freshwest]

33. Did you see what Nanjing to Seoul wrote about the treaty and war starting up?

Was WW2 ended on the condition they didn't attack the neighbors again?

Any kind of military conflict over there would be horrific, so many people could get hurt and so many connections to the rest of the world would be disrupted.

[Art_from_Ark]

37. I'm right here at potential Ground Zero

It is kind of unnerving to hear all this saber rattling, sitting here in Tokyo. You're right, of course, about what an armed conflict in this part of the world could do. Japan is prohibited by Article 9 of its constitution from having the capacity to launch an aggressive attack against its neighbors. There was much talk about revising Article 9 during the Koizumi years to allow for Japanese military forces to be dispatched to other countries, and fortunately it didn't go anywhere (although Japan did send a few humanitarian forces to Iraq). I would like to think that Japan has more sense than to try to do it now.

[freshwest]

43. So this is only coming from China and N.K.? Hope the coolest heads prevail in Japan now.

It seems like someone wants a war there.

[Art_from_Ark]

46. I doubt that there are too many people in Japan who want a war

After all, everyone is taught about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as well as the fire-bombing of Tokyo, Osaka, and other cities, and there are still lots of people around who remember those days. Only an idiot would want a repeat of that (although, admittedly, there are a few idiots like that who drive around town in loudspeaker trucks blaring war songs and pretending that those were the good old days).

[freshwest]

48. By *someone* I didn't mean the Japanese. I think some MIC folks would love to make some money.

Japan has no neighbor to make money off without 'going for it' as they did with China and all the rest. I guess every group of people at one time or another falls into a delusion about winning on a lot of territory.

Well, not a delusion if they get to keep it, huh, for which the USA is a great example of bloody conquest. No one around Japan will ignore their shared history, nor can they afford to ignore their industrial capacity.

Their neighbors are ready for them if anything happened to push Japanese society over the edge and I imagine the leaders are prepared to have Japan survive all the challenges it faces. There is not much land there, but the people adapted to it in ways most Americans can't imagine.

Do you see any cracks, so to speak, in the standard of living, unity or other factors that would mobilize the people or leader to wage war?

I can't believe they would start one.

[Art_from_Ark]

49. Certainly there are some cracks in Japanese society

Not the type of glaring cracks like in the US, but they're still there.

There is always a chance that social conditions will deteriorate to the point where a growing number of Japanese would see aggressive war as an option-- for example, rampant unemployment among young men with no safety net.

But at the same time, conditions today are vastly different from what they were in the days leading up to the invasion of China and the attack on Pearl Harbor. No one's going to fight and die for the Emperor and the State Religion today. The majority of today's adult Japanese have money, and property, and everyone who's not in jail has the right to travel freely, both within the country and to (most) foreign countries. The closest Japan has come to a food shortage was when massive amounts of food had to be diverted to the disaster areas 2 years ago, and grocery stores in this area had half-empty shelves for a while, but there were no real problems, and even in the disaster areas people waited patiently for food and other supplies. And there were also gas shortages at that time, but people still waited patiently for their turn at the pump.

Japanese tend to keep their cool under pressure (although there are a few hot-heads here and there, but it's basically a grin-and-bear-it society). So it's hard to get them worked up to the point of committing violence en masse.

[Shankapotomus]

16. I would rather see Japan export

its beautiful culture...not war.

[freshwest]

31. Yes, always would have been better. I can't find the beautiful things they exported to us in the 80s

anywhere anymore. It's all more practical and not the artistic things they used to make for sale.

[Shankapotomus]

44. The last item i purchased directly

from Japan was my NoPoPo water powered batteries for my wireless mouse.



Unfortunately, I can't get them to work.

A lot of the people featured on the site linked below about Japanese mountain life still practice traditional, handmade Japanese art:

http://adifferentkindofluxury.blogspot.com/

Not sure if that's the kind of art you're referring to but there are painters, potters and bookmakers among them. I don't know if they have websites.

[freshwest]

45. It was their pottery, porcelain and paintings I liked. Also kimonos.

Just don't seem to be able to find these anymore, or perhaps the price is so high they're only available by in the speciality stores. Some of them were so delicate and imaginative, not just practical. I thought they would always be available and gave them away when I'd move. I have no idea what happened to the artisans who made them, but I suspect cheaper versions from Chinese made it unprofitable. Thanks for the link.

[Art_from_Ark]

47. I could get you all the Japanese pottery you want

There are at least a couple of major pottery-making centers within a couple hours drive of me.

For example, Kasama, where they make Kasama-yaki

http://www.google.co.jp/search?q=笠間焼&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=koC4UaLhMYfDO5uRgOgO&ved=0CD8QsAQ&biw=1280&bih=680

And Mashiko, where they make Mashiko-yaki and have an annual pottery festival

http://www.google.co.jp/search?q=益子焼&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=24C4UbyzIofbOayFgfAH&ved=0CEEQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=680

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

19. The world is becoming more authoritarian, again, following America's lead

unfortunately.

I see dark days ahead.

[DeSwiss]

23. You want offensive? Throw Fukushima at the enemy......

...they'll be history in no time.

[Bonobo]

25. The world of Japan for many...

exists of Fukushima and whaling.

Maybe until you get a WEE bit more perspective, you should lay off on the cartoon-like characterizations as if that is all that exists in our world.

[DeSwiss]

41. Oh thank you Obi ONE.

- You were my only hope.