Politico: Bill Clinton Breaks With Obama On Syria

[flpoljunkie]

Source: Talkingpointsmemo Livewire

Bill Clinton said Tuesday that President Barack Obama should do more to aid rebels in the Syrian civil war and that he risks looking like "a total fool" if he allows public opinion polls to govern U.S. policy on that front, according to audio obtained by Politico.

The former president made his remarks to Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), one of Obama's fiercest critics on Syria, during a question-and-answer session at an event for the McCain Institute for International Leadership in Manhattan. Clinton told McCain that he sides him on this issue, and not Obama.

"Some people say, ‘Okay, see what a big mess it is? Stay out!’ I think that’s a big mistake. I agree with you about this,” Clinton reportedly told McCain. “Sometimes it’s just best to get caught trying, as long as you don’t overcommit — like, as long as you don’t make an improvident commitment."

An ABC News/Washington Post poll released late last month found that 68 percent of Americans oppose U.S. military intervention to end the bloody civil war in Syria. But Clinton appeared to scoff at the idea that polls should influence the President's decisions.

more...

Read more: http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/politico-bill-clinton-breaks-with-obama-on-syria?ref=fpb

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Why attend the 'McCain Institute for International Leadership?' Isn't that an oxymoron?

[jakeXT]

1. Just do the opposite of your constituency...

a great strategy

[BeyondGeography]

2. Obama must not be campaigning hard enough for Hillary

[dipsydoodle]

3. allows public opinion polls to govern U.S. policy on that front

Perhaps someone could remind me exactly who votes in your politicians. I thought it was the public.

[Eddie Haskell]

5. Israel, France and Great Britain are putting pressure on Obama

When Israel's mini-sub was sunk, Israel used a mini-nuke on Syria. Putin put his foot down and threatened to bomb Israel out of existence. Obama took his side. This thing could lead to WW III and no one even knows.

[karynnj]

7. Are your first two sentences conjecture or real history

I don't remember either thing happening, but you are using the past tense rather than any grammar that makes it speculative. This is not an attempt to police grammar but an attempt to know what you are saying.

I agree that with Russia having a Syrian naval base, this is very dangerous and I doubt many people understand the relationship that has existed for decades between Syria and Russia. (I would leave Israel out of this - especially as their position is not for either side and adding Israel makes people here react as if they caused it.

[Eddie Haskell]

9. Really hard to say, but watch for yourself

This was released by a Syrian source. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056960858

[karynnj]

15. Thanks - will look at it later

[East Coast Pirate]

32. In other words, it never happened.

[zeeland]

23. Another "WTF is going on" item to ponder. n/t

[loyalsister]

4. Oy

That's just obnoxious for him to publicly criticize our current president. It's very easy to quarterback from outside the oval office. That he is teaming up with McCain to Criticize Pres. Obama is just infuriating!

[karynnj]

8. What I especially don't like are two things

Last edited Thu Jun 13, 2013, 09:57 AM - Edit history (2)

1) He attributes Obama's motive to polls. There is nothing worse than saying the President is not choosing what he thinks is best for the world and the US.

2) Look at the sentence where he wiggles out if Obama ends up aiding the rebels and it becomes the mess that most of us think it will be. Then dependent on what Obama did - Clinton would say he didn't do enough or he made a improvident commitment. Leaving Clinton as the "grown up" all wise foreign policy sage -- even though he really was not as strong on that as on domestic issues.

My guess is that this is because it is known that Hillary and Petraeous were for arming the rebels.

A song that comes to mind when thinking of Bill Clinton is "Reason to believe". Just as in 2007 (and in 2004), I am regretting having defended Bill Clinton's indefensible behavior when he was in office. He is one of the most self centered, egotistic jerks in politics -- and that is a high bar to cross! Yet for some reason he has the ability when he does something like the 2012 convention speech to make me see him as incredibly good - even though I still remembered his comment in the same vein in 2004 - when he backed Bush over those criticizing Bush on how the war was being run - like our de facto nominee!

This is more shattering than his getting the father of the year award which BEGS comment on his behavior in Arkansas and the White House.

[loyalsister]

10. Did he ever criticize Bush on military matters when it mattered?

I don't remember him doing so. I recall something about a tradition for former presidents to not offer too much public advice.
Just when he is redeemed he loses me again.

[karynnj]

14. No, he did not criticize Bush - he criticized those criticizing Bush

Worse, this was June and July 2004, when he egotistically was doing a book tour that COULD have been scheduled for after the election. Other than saying that it was wrong to criticize how the war was being fought (and yes, this was after Abu Graib, and after using warlords allied with the Taliban weeks before to get OBL etc), he answered questions on his book for reporters who all seemed to have just used the index and looked under L .... I'm sure Senator Kerry wanted Monica to be the main topic for a month that summer. (Echoes of 2000 when he gave a confessional interview on TV the weekend before Gore's convention.)

[loyalsister]

17. He's trying to suck up all the air he can

Tomorrow he's on Morning Joe (with Rahm) and Alex Wagner (about a jobs program). If I can stomach it, I may hear all about how he would do things better.

[BeyondGeography]

12. Well said...Everyone gets to feel like Libby Holden when it comes to Bill

[zeeland]

24. Democrats are acting very strange this week.

Carl Levin throwing Gillabrand's bill under the bus yesterday was a shocker and now Clinton siding with McCain?

I don't care if Obama sat on a poor little kitten, Clinton is out of line.

[tridim]

6. Egocentric dick. nt

[David__77]

11. Shameful and disgusting.

What a politically immoral man.

[davidpdx]

13. McCain Institute for International Leadership?

It should be McCain Institute for Get the Hell off my Lawn. He should be sued for false advertising.

[arewenotdemo]

16. So "NO" actually means..."Be careful, Bill"?

For God's sake, Clinton.

"I don’t mean that a leader should go out of his way or her way to do the unpopular thing, I simply mean when people are telling you ‘no’ in these situations, very often what they’re doing is flashing a giant yellow light and saying, ‘For God’s sakes, be careful, tell us what you’re doing, think this through, be careful," he was quoted by Politico as saying at a Q&A session with McCain organized by the McCain Institute for International Leadership in Manhattan.

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Clinton-calls-on-Obama-to-act-more-forcefully-in-Syria-316373

[Catherina]

18. Bill Clinton needs to STFU.

Bill with his new best friend

Bill Clinton ‏@billclinton 11 Jun

.@SenJohnMcCain Great seeing you too, friend. Though I think we look better from this angle: pic.twitter.com/kjPg6Lt4E5



https://twitter.com/billclinton/status/344639529312976897

[Sunlei]

19. I want President Obama to destroy-heles or tanks that fire willie-nillie into cities/towns

get rid of those tanks and missile firing helicopters.

And criminal charges against any American investers doing business along with the russian gun sellers.

[groundloop]

20. I agree with Bill on a lot of issues, but he blew it on this....

I applaud the fact that President Obama is taking the time to gather facts before committing US involvement in a civil war.

[Beacool]

21. i think that Bill is still haunted by Rwanda.

How many thousands of civilians, including many children, have to die before the West does something more than provide humanitarian aid?

[Tarheel_Dem]

38. You and Bill won't be responsible for the inevitable fallout from weapons falling into the wrong....

hands. Who could've guessed that you'd come down on the opposite side of PBO? As soon as the West gets involved, we'll be treated to daily reports of US drones, or bombs blowing up those "thousands of civilians, including many children" you claim to be concerned about. This country is sick to death of being drawn into civil wars where assholes can't act like grownups. This is a lesson for the future, if you decide to take on, and/or overthrow your government, you better make damn sure in advance, that you won't need outside help, especially from the US. We can't be everybody's White Knight.

Considering how Iraq turned out, and after thousands of dead Iraqis & Americans, and many untold gazillions of dollars that could have been spent right here at home, they are descending once again into civil chaos. What did the American people gain from our involvement in Iraq, except the hatred of the world?

And after you "arm the rebels" (whoever the hell they are)....What then? We escalate further? Slick Willy is leaving himself lots of wiggle room. No matter how this turns out, he won't be left holding the proverbial bag.

[JackRiddler]

43. You mean Clinton regrets his active role in the civil war? Doubt it!

People using Rwanda as an example should at least bother to inform themselves.

The US was heavily involved in that conflict by organizing and arming the Tutsi revel army, the RFP, from bases in Uganda. Kagame was being trained at Fort Leavenworth when he was called in to take over the RFP because the previous leader had died.

Meanwhile, France had been backing the Hutu majority government all along. As the RFP invaded, the two presidents were assassinated, the Hutu Power genocide of the Tutsis unfolded, and the tide turned to the US-backed RFP's favor, French special forces INVADED Rwanda so as to secure the retreat of the Interamhamwe (Hutu Power) genocidaires into the Congo.

This was a classic imperialist proxy war involving heavy interventions by both the US and France, as is well known to the readers of the press most everywhere outside the tightly controlled and self-censored United States.

In the US, however, it has been absurdly spun by the liberal-humanitarian neoimperialists into an example, not of how the West's intervention contributed to causing a genocide, but of how "the West failed to intervene" to prevent a genocide. All you need to buy that is total ignorance of the actual events and the entire history of "the West" in Africa.

I suppose a hero-worshipping willingness to uncritically accept whatever bullshit Clinton says can also help.

[Nye Bevan]

22. I agree with Bill here, but this does NOT mean another Iraq war style debacle.

There is plenty Obama can do to aid the rebels without instigating a Bush-style disaster. I understand how many people are wary of military intervention after the Bush-Cheney catastrophes, but I trust that Obama will take a much smarter approach.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

29. These rebels?

Dozens of Shiites Reported Killed in Raid by Syria Rebels
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/13/world/middleeast/syria.html?_r=0

Syrian rebels pledge loyalty to al-Qaeda
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/04/11/syria-al-qaeda-connection/2075323/


Syrian rebels burned homes and killed civilians in a sectarian rampage targeting Shiite Muslims in a village in eastern Syria, activists and officials said Wednesday.

The rebel attack on Hatla, in eastern Deir Elzur province, resulted in the deaths of unspecified numbers of civilians and combatants, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said. The British-based monitoring group says it documents abuses by all sides in the Syrian civil war.

The official Syrian government press office said “terrorists” attacked Hatla and killed 30 people, including women and children. Anti-government rebels control large swaths of eastern Deir Elzur province.

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-syria-rebels-raid-shiite-village-20130612,0,7306411.story

[CarmanK]

25. Bill Clinton needs to read Jeremy Scahill's book DIRTY WARS before he makes such stupid remarks.

He hasnt a clue! The US has made the mistake of ignoring history of the region for years and AMs have died needlessly as have the thousands of innocent civilians caught up in the Middle Eastern power struggles. These culture have been fighting for thousands of years and their differences will not be settled with bullets any time soon. The US is not an empire, it is not the world police. We have a UN and world court to help settle matters of egregious violations of peoples rights. It is time for the US to let the world conscience work. After W/Cheney misuse and abuse of AM power and lives, it is time we looked inward and took care of the 300 mn people in the care of the US govt. The Red states are violating citizen rights and we need to address these major civil rights violations right here at home.

[lilithsrevenge12]

36. Thank you!

All I could think was, why don't all these countries criticizing the U.S. come together and send their own aid? Why is it always our job? Especially, when we are no longer the world super power.

[Arkana]

26. Clinton's free to think what he wants, but he doesn't get daily security briefings.

He doesn't know the caliber of people making up the Syrian rebels--if we arm them there's no telling what splinter groups we're inadvertently helping.

[Tarheel_Dem]

39. I agree with you, but I thought former President's still got those security briefings. I could.....

swear I've heard that somewhere. Could just be internet chatter, but I certainly agree with the gist of your post.

[karynnj]

41. I don't think they do -- there is no need to know.

Not to mention, if he got Bush level intelligence briefings, he would have known that we were lied to. What he did know was everything up until he left office - meaning that when you are speaking a year or two out, he still has better info than most.

[Tarheel_Dem]

42. I stand corrected. I just thought I heard Dick Cheney blabbering on about some intelligence reports

that he and Pres. Bush still receive, but I'm clearly mistaken. Thanks again.

[Marrah_G]

27. I disagree with Clinton on this

We should not give training and arms to either side.

[graham4anything]

28. I think it is a brilliant political move, and many Kudos to Bill. And remember Rwanda?

Bill regrets that he didn't do something

and remember, FDR because of public opinion did not go into WW2 for years, and well, how many people died because of the
fact that americans didn't want it.

In retrospect, Bill Clinton was a very good president based on the times we were living in, and it was a very
astute political move.

Maybe we all can argue this for weeks and weeks, and hopefully the MSM will argue this throughout the summer too,
maybe even into the middle of next year.

Go Bill

(note-this is NOT satire in case someone thinks that.)

[ForgoTheConsequence]

30. This isn't comparable to WWII.

And the "rebels" you want to arm have been targeting civilians.

[graham4anything]

33. If you notice, I said we could argue this for a year. Which means,

which means nothing will happen while there is conversation on it.

And remember, Bill and the President and the next President Hillary are all on the same side.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

34. They're not on the same side of this issue.

Bill said that in the article.

Which means he should shut the fuck up, Its rude and self serving, let POTUS do his job.


Also the "poll numbers" comment was out of line.

[Cal33]

37. I'd like it better if our next president will be Elizabeth Warren.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

40. I'd like that also.

Or Russ Feingold.

[roamer65]

44. Seriously?

You're blaming our non-involvement in WW2 from September 1939 to December 1941 for war deaths during that period, instead of the invading Nazis and Imperial Japanese? Unreal...wow.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

31. Obama should tell Clinton to fuck off.

We'll let him know if there is an aspirin factory that needs to be bombed, until then shut the fuck up and let the President do the job he was elected to do.

[DonCoquixote]

35. Hey Billy

Thank you for reminding me why I will work tooth and nail to keep your wife/enabler in chief out of the Oval office!

Hillary, this will be rescinded if you curb your damn dog, and by that I mean, tell him to SHUT UP about both Syria and the keystone Pipeline!

[roamer65]

45. If they keep this crap up, there won't be an election in 2016.

Hell, there won't be a coherent human race left to have one...if they keep beating these war drums.

[quadrature]

46. Clinton regrets not helping in Rwanda1996.

Clinton's advice to the world
has personal bias.