World exclusive: Iran will send 4,000 troops to aid Bashar al-Assad’s forces in Syria
Source: The Independent
Washingtons decision to arm Syrias Sunni Muslim rebels has plunged America into the great Sunni-Shia conflict of the Islamic Middle East, entering a struggle that now dwarfs the Arab revolutions which overthrew dictatorships across the region.
For the first time, all of Americas friends in the region are Sunni Muslims and all of its enemies are Shiites. Breaking all President Barack Obamas rules of disengagement, the US is now fully engaged on the side of armed groups which include the most extreme Sunni Islamist movements in the Middle East.
The Independent on Sunday has learned that a military decision has been taken in Iran even before last weeks presidential election to send a first contingent of 4,000 Iranian Revolutionary Guards to Syria to support President Bashar al-Assads forces against the largely Sunni rebellion that has cost almost 100,000 lives in just over two years. Iran is now fully committed to preserving Assads regime, according to pro-Iranian sources which have been deeply involved in the Islamic Republics security, even to the extent of proposing to open up a new Syrian front on the Golan Heights against Israel.
In years to come, historians will ask how America after its defeat in Iraq and its humiliating withdrawal from Afghanistan scheduled for 2014 could have so blithely aligned itself with one side in a titanic Islamic struggle stretching back to the seventh century death of the Prophet Mohamed. The profound effects of this great schism, between Sunnis who believe that the father of Mohameds wife was the new caliph of the Muslim world and Shias who regard his son in law Ali as his rightful successor a seventh century battle swamped in blood around the present-day Iraqi cities of Najaf and Kerbala continue across the region to this day. A 17th century Archbishop of Canterbury, George Abbott, compared this Muslim conflict to that between Papists and Protestants.
Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/world-exclusive-iran-will-send-4000-troops-to-aid-bashar-alassads-forces-in-syria-8660358.html
tinrobot
(10,902 posts)n2doc
(47,953 posts)Blood martinis for all!
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts).
flamingdem
(39,313 posts)I wonder if I can buy a bomb shelter on ebay
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)I think there were 600 or so people killed in sectarian strife in Iraq last month.
Iraqi Sunni jihadists are active in the Syrian war on both sides of the border.
In Lebanon, the same kind of sectarian strife is breaking out.
The best word to describe US policy on Syria may be "feckless."
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)I hope this does not explode into a world war. It has potential.
Kolesar
(31,182 posts)Some of them are fighting a proxy war, at least.
psychopomp
(4,668 posts)This is so stupid, it hurts.
msongs
(67,407 posts)OnlinePoker
(5,720 posts)Last I looked, he's the one calling the shots in the White House. He could make the decision to say no but is choosing not to.
840high
(17,196 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)The grinding destruction of the states in the middle east has been US policy since Eisenhower at least, and at no point has any iteration of our government put a brake on it. To pretend that this is a "Bush" thing or an "Obama" thing, or what have you, is to miss the larger picture at work.
Presidents are just administrators of policy; the policy itself remains unchanged no matter who's copping a squat in the oval office.
Civilization2
(649 posts)The more people that realize this fact, the closer we come to actually changing this terrible non-democratic situation.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)It's a win-win for the Saudis and the multinational energy giants.
We can't have the price of crude drop to $10/bbl as it did in 1997 - there was almost a revolution/coup in Saudi Arabia, at which time UBL emerged as the new boogyman.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)What else did you guys expect?
And don't be surprised if the moderate candidate ends up losing the upcoming elections over there, either; I don't doubt that many of the people there are tired of the criminals in Tehran just as many Syrians tired of the crooks running their nation. But unfortunately, I suspect that the BushCo factions of the CIA will do everything they can to keep the Islamist thugs in power over there, and they may just succeed, too. Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe the moderate fella manages to win regardless.....(and if he does, this would be great news, IMHO.)....but if not, there is the potential for another chapter of the Green Revolution to begin.....
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Done and dusted.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Reuters just confirmed it, I think. This is a HUGE step forward, so thanks, Dipsydoodle.
flamingdem
(39,313 posts)from what I just heard
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Hopefully this is a real positive step in the right direction for Iran.....
MADem
(135,425 posts)Not that this means much.
polly7
(20,582 posts)[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
it. What is this map suppose to represent?
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)that Iran is a threat to the United States. It clearly illustrates the U.S. is in position to strike Iran from anywhere.
Berlum
(7,044 posts)Of course, thanks to Ollie North (R) and his Republican cabal mates, Iran has our US Hawk missiles to shoot at our American sons and daughters in uniform.
Why did Republicans designate Iran as "evil" and then give them weapons to shoot at us? How twisted is that? The missiles are old by now, but then again a antique blunderbuss will kill someone just as dead as an modern-day assault rifle will.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)Laelth
(32,017 posts)It should be an OP of its own ... It says so much.
Destroying Iran has, indeed, been the goal all along. We have them nearly surrounded. Wow.
-Laelth
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)n2doc
(47,953 posts)It is the clerics who control the military and police.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)John2
(2,730 posts)is Commander in Chief of the Iranian Armed Forces. A good portion of the Iranian Armed Forces is the Revolutionary Guards and their reserves are the Basif which totals in the millions. The latter can be called up to active duty in case of War. The difference between the last Iranian President and this one, he came from the Revolutionary Guards. This new guy comes from the clergy. He has nothing to do with the Armed Forces. Iran's Joint Chiefs in Staff reports directly to the Supreme Leader. That is where the proclamation in support of Syria came directly from. Hezbullah gets support from the Supreme Leader, through the Revolutionary Guards. And I doubt the new President will have any authorization to allow U.N. investigators on Iranian military facilities especially their secret installations. The only way he can do that is go through Iran's Armed Forces command and the Supreme Leader.
4 years ago the clerics came down on the reformists. Since then the movement has grown. It now seems the clerics may be just bit afraid of the public. So the clerics aren't going to do much to stem the flow. The economy depends on the nation being viewed far differently than it was under the conservatives.
What do you know? Conservatives are bad news in all civilized nations.
MADem
(135,425 posts)There are photos circulating ofhim in his dark-bearded youth, praying just behind the "Imam."
The last President was one of the pasdaran (which were rather rag-tag back in the seventies)...this guy was a servant/body blocker for the Big K. Bottom line, though--the new guy does what the ulema tell him to do.
DreamGypsy
(2,252 posts)<Name of current president goes here> did not mention the covert Central Intelligence Agency role in the July 31 raids or the absence of definitive confirmation of the second <bad guys name goes here> attack. A few days later, concerned that the American <weaponry used goes here> had fired because of confusion and nervousness, <Name of current president goes here> confided to an aide, Hell, those dumb stupid sailors were just shooting at flying fish. Publicly, however, he displayed no traces of doubt. On August 7, with opinion polls showing that 85 percent of Americans support for an increased U.S. role in <the country experiencing a civil war goes here>, President <you know> gained congressional passage of the Gulf of <Fubar> Resolution. After only forty minutes of deliberation, the House of Representatives unanimously approved the resolution; in the Senate, all but two senators voted for it.
Yesterday Thom Hartmann nailed a couple of reasons why The US Needs to Stay out of Syria Civil War. Iran just validated those reasons.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)We are now in yet another war.
Or is it just a new front in the Forever War?
sakabatou
(42,152 posts)>.<
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Lugal Zaggesi
(366 posts)But... but... I thought that illegally arming "rebels" had no consequences, whatsoever !
Response to Lugal Zaggesi (Reply #25)
Name removed Message auto-removed
jessie04
(1,528 posts)Just a matter of time, sad to say.
Civilization2
(649 posts)I think you may need to rethink who started what,. . who is surrounding whom?
Perhaps the American military should stay inside the USA?
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)and shows all the players in the region.
What a mess.
okaawhatever
(9,462 posts)sorties and bomb the crap out of their weapons caches and military manufacturing plants.
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)and there are more countries involved in the Syria mess unlike Vietnam war.
The article forgot to touch on the Kurds that are in Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Turkey. Very complicated situation indeed.
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)Fuck it!
Let's end this bullshit proxy war once and for all.
Whoopie, we're all gonna die!
I would rather we get this over with now, once and for all than continuing to play this economically and life destroying cold war game of brinksminship.
I'm in. Anyone else?
Let's play armageddon!
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)channels God and therefore they can do no wrong. I say hands off. If Saudi Arabia wants to fight the Shia in Syria, let them send their own troops and weapons.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Easy trap to fall into I suppose, given the unfamiliarity of most Americans with any face of Islam not presented to them by the WarMedia. Basically this is like claiming that Catholics are... well, monarchists who think the Pope channels god and can do no wrong.
Al-qaeda is itself a heterogenous group; it'd have to be, being an international group. I'm 100% certain there are a good number of AQ operativeswho believe Ali was Mohammed's rightful successor; remember, al-qaeda is a political group. Religion is simply a recruiting tool.
In large part it does espouse salafist (wahabbist) ideals, stemming from an extreme variety of Sunni islam from Saudi Arabia... and if you think these guys believe the Sauds speak with the voice of god, you couldn't be more wrong. The Saud family is generally seen as the most corrupt of the pack of corrupt, monstrous rulers in the eyes of Salafism; they're decadent, venal, unresponsive to the faithful, and allow unbelievers into the holy land of Arabia.
AQ isn't going after Assad on Saudi Arabia's behalf - they're not even really "going after Assad," per se. You see, much as with Iraq, Al-qaeda followed us into Syria (you don't think these rebels just popped up fully-armed out of nowhere, do you? We've got "specialists" in there, bet your ass on it). Why? Conflict creates easy recruiting for al-qaeda. They take up the cause of the insurgents, not because of some Sunni / Shia grudge, but because the momentum's already there and AQ's regional plans don't require Assad to be there.
Reducing it to denominational slapfighting ignores the very real political machinations at work, and just characterizes those involved as backwards koran-thumpers without much else on their brains. That sort of outlook has gotten a couple thousand Americans put in the ground so far, I'd suggest avoiding it.
Civilization2
(649 posts)Second or third comment of yours I have just read and you write clearly and with much sanity, thanks.
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)This is going to be very messy.
John2
(2,730 posts)American has to go along with this that don't believe in it. So far we don't have a military draft. The problem is, Congress is using our tax dollars to pay for their Warmongering, under the disguise of National Security.
Congress has become a Business. It is not representing ordinary Americans, but corporations and the wealthy. They influence all the laws and decisions in this country. They might throw a few crumbs off the table to the rest of us, to keep us in line, but they are in the business of extending their power Worldwide. There has been people in Government so long, that they have gotten into the one percent or part of the Ruling Elite in this country.
They are not fighting for Human Rights or Democracy, those are Liberal ideas. They are fighting for resources and extending their Empire. They want to bring more people under their control. The U.N. is only an instrument to bring that about. There is not one single countries' population in the West support their Government's role in the Middle East. The people in Government is making the decisions for us, and most of them come from the one percent of the population.
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,868 posts)This isn't our fight.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)n/t.
go west young man
(4,856 posts)It states all of the US friends in the region are Sunni. If I'm not mistaken we removed Sunni's from power in Iraq and replaced them with Shiites. Thereby destabilizing the country and incidentally causing the deaths of a quarter of a million people. The Independent isn't what is used to be. Like most journo orgs these days they seem to be content pushing agendas instead of reporting facts.
magellan
(13,257 posts)So technically the article is correct. Also note that 'friends' is in quotes. That's meant to convey the questionable aspect of the strength of those bonds under the microscope.
John2
(2,730 posts)the Kurds will side with the U.S.? The Kurds share power with the Maliki Government. He is a Shite. During the Iran\Iraq War, the Kurds sided with Iran. That is why Saddam gased them. I think Iraq will side with Iran in the event of a War. They told Israel to not use their territory to attack Iran or they will respond.
I understand there is an uprising going on in Yeman also, piting Shia's against Sunnis, where the Saudi Army got involved also. It claims Iran has been involved in that uprising also. These Houthis also seem to be assisting the Assad regime in Syria. It claims they have about 100,000 fighters, at war with the Yemeni and Saudi Army.
I've also noticed there are civil wars occuring in Africa right now, listing even more deaths than Syria. So why is all this focus only on Syria?
magellan
(13,257 posts)John2
(2,730 posts)believe? I doubt the Kurds will side with the Sunnis in attacking Iran. Not after the Saudis' supported Sadam when he gased them.
magellan
(13,257 posts)...for all the reasons you state and more. This is a proxy war against Iran, that's all, that's why McCain has been beating the drum for us to get involved, and it's incredibly sad and frustrating that Obama has acceded to neocon insanity and dissembled about it on top of everything else.
John2
(2,730 posts)agree. I think we should stay out and let them fight it out, unless both sides want us to mediate a Peace Conference, without preconditions.
magellan
(13,257 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)cstanleytech
(26,291 posts)I kind of doubt egypt will allow Iran to move them through the canal and I sure as heck dont think Turkey or Iraq will agree to allow Iranian troops to use their countries.
John2
(2,730 posts)think Iran is getting arms to Hezbullah? Do you even know what is going on in Iraq? I see the BBC let the Syrian news media back online and CNN was reporting from Damascus today. I have to wonder whose side the Kurds are helping out? I just saw in the Syrian Media, the Kurds reported the first shipment of American weapons to the rebels through the Turkish border and what types they were. You sure that you know which side the Kurds are on and who they allow in their territory? I'm pretty sure the Kurds can use some of those shipments too.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Even after this U.S.-organized weapons trafficking was uncovered, the Obama administration still has the nerve to say that the U.S. is only supplying "non lethal" aid to the Syrian rebels. Never mind that many of the guns that the U.S. is transporting into Syria from its allies were sold to the allies by the United States, where the weapons were manufactured.
http://www.zcommunications.org/obama-and-u-s-military-divided-over-syria-by-shamus-cooke
people don't think, and neither does that idiot in Turkey. Like I said, the Kurdish resistance can use more lethal arms too. They don't know where those weapons will end up.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Iranian supplies are flying through Iraq to Syria as we speak.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Hizb'ullah, trying to make a play to be top dog in the region, and they aren't having it.
It's why Morsi is touting a no-fly zone, and why Jordan is offering up tarmac space.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Because there's a whole lot of Shiites in the Arab world, too. And I don't hear too many of them clamoring for Morsi or the Gulf monarchs to come rescue them. In fact, I hear them clamoring to be rescued from the Gulf monarchs.
You know, it was the Gulf monarchies that really started this ball rolling. They've invested $3 or $4 billion already in trying to drive Assad from power. Maybe it's the Gulf monarchies who are trying to be top dog. Iran didn't start this, but it sure isn't going to sit idly by while its regional allies are destroyed.
I can't think of any reason we're involved except neo-imperial realpolitik, covered in sanctimony and hypocrisy.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Iraq, that has troubles of its own, has a shia majority, but they also have a strong sunni minority and a slew of Kurds, who aren't shia. Lebanon has their share, thanks to Hizb'ullah (but there's plenty of the other flavor there as well, along with those pesky Christians that make the region less monolithic than people think; also Lebanon plays host to a load of Palestinian refugees, who are most decidedly NOT shia and won't back any causes that have religious overtones that are antithetical to the sunnis; Kuwait, where they're guest workers and lack any clout, Bahrain, where the shias are the poor majority under the gun because the leadership there is not afraid of cracking down; The Yemen has a large minority that will probably overtake soon--but they also have a strong tribal structure that can complicate any unity efforts; and of course, there are a crew in Syria, which has an offshoot of the shia mentality in the Alawite sect, along with slews of others, Christian, Sunni, Kurds with their own Sunni flavor, etc.
Then, there's Iran, which hosts the bulk of shi'a in the "Middle Eastern-SW Asian" region, seventy million or so--and as I am sure you are aware, Iran, like Turkey, is not part of the Arab world. Iranians are Indo-Europeans, their language is Farsi, not Arabic (though they do use the same alphabet), and they are not regarded as Arabs, and the Arabs view them as "others" -- not part of the Pan Arab experience, somewhat annoying and condescending at times, and other times, right pains in the asses. The Saudis look askance at them and likely will forever (July 31 87 had a role to play in that--that resonates to this day) and so do many others. They aren't part of any Arab unity movements because they aren't Arabs and they don't speak the language or share the culture--and that distinction and difference cannot be underestimated. Lumping is the sort of mistake the Bush administration made, and that would be a serious mistake, indeed. Not all shia are created equal--some sects hate other sects, because they think they're cults.
More on shia, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Islam
It is variously estimated that 1020%[51][52][53][54] of the world's Muslims are Shia. They may number up to 200 million as of 2009.[53] The Shia majority countries are Iran, Iraq, Azerbaijan and Bahrain.[55] They also constitute 36.3% of entire local population and 38.6% of the local Muslim population of the Middle East.[56]
Shia Muslims constitute 27% of the population in Lebanon,[57] over 45% of the population in Yemen,[58] 30% of the population in Kuwait,[59] over 20% in Turkey,[53][60] 1020% of the population in Pakistan,[53] and 10-19% of Afghanistan's population.[61][62]
Saudi Arabia hosts a number of distinct Shia communities, including the Twelver Baharna in the Eastern Province and Nakhawila of Medina, and the Ismaili Sulaymani and Zaidiyyah of Najran. Estimations put the number of Shiite citizens at 2-4 million, accounting for roughly 15% of the local population.[63]
This visual drives the point home nicely:
The shi'a don't "own the road" in the Arab world, and it looks like the Arab world isn't about to let them try to overtake, either. The Arabs ARE the top dogs in the region--the Saudis haven't been sitting on their thumbs for the last seventy years, they've worked very hard, with plenty of carrots in the form of extremely generous aid to their poorer brethren, to keep them on the "A" team. The Egyptians understand the need for a status quo ante bellum situation, at least as concerns their relations with their neighbors--they get money from the Saudis, and money from us, and they need it. They'd have trouble making it on their own, and Putin would jump on that. It's happened before, after all.
The idea that, if we just stroll off into the sunset, that other actors aren't going to jump in and take advantage and shape the region to their liking, is naive. I would prefer that we do it without a single boot on the ground, and I'm hopeful that can be accomplished.
John2
(2,730 posts)just one flaw in your analysis though. The Shia might be more united than the Sunnis. The Shiites don't seem to be that extreme, but the Sunnis seem to run from the moderate, to the most extreme in their religious beliefs.
President Assad for example still have Sunni's in his cabinet and in the military, that are very loyal to him, even though the opposition or Western media never mentions them. I've looked at his current cabinet and there are many Sunnis still in key positions, such as the Prime Minister and Defense Minister. These people hold political offices from different governates within Syria, which suggests they do have a constituency from their home villages. The opposition tried to assassinate the Prime Minister recently, but they missed.
So I went back a little further on the History of the Baath Party itself. The Baath party started as an Arab nationalist movement in the Arab World against European Imperialism. Assad's father and the late Egyptian President (Nasser) were military commanders, that were part of that movement. They were against religious extremism, in the Arab World such as the likes of groups like Al Qa eda. They were more for secularism, and Westernization to compete with the West. They tolerated religious freedom towards certain minorities. Extremists like the second in command of Al Qa eda were against people like Nasser in Egypt. He was assassinated by religious extremists. The now leader of Al Qa eda was placed in prison and so was the present President of Egypt for a number of years. I understand Morsi escaped from jail.
The Palestinians are not as extremist as some of these Sunnis either. Even the Muslim Brotherhood and the Salifists don't get along sometimes. Bin Laden didn't approve of the Saudi Royal Family. The Kurds are not that extreme either. They have clashed with the opposition in Syria and collaborated with the Assad Government. Assad did a very politically savvy move, allowing the Kurds more independence in Syria during the protests.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Everyone thinks they are the Way and the Light.
As for Syria, they're lining up to get the hell out of there. Those sunnis in the army are voting with their feet (and I would not be surprised if we see them again in the theater of operations).
From just yesterday: http://news.kuwaittimes.net/65-syrian-officers-6-generals-defect-syria-pounds-rebels-russia-cautions-against-no-fly-zone/
65 Syrian officers, 6 generals defect Syria pounds rebels; Russia cautions against no-fly zone
I don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to put the pieces together, here:
Update At 3:50 p.m. ET. Egypt Calls For 'No Hesitation' On No-Fly Zone
Reuters reports that in a speech to Sunni Muslim clerics in Cairo, Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi urged world powers not to hesitate to enforce a no-fly zone over Syria.
The Islamist Mursi told the audience that he had cut all ties to Damascus and demanded that the Iranian-backed Hezbollah, which has backed Assad's regime against rebels, must leave Syria, according to Reuters.
Update At 3:30 p.m. ET. U.S. Will Leave Fighters, Missiles In Jordan After Joint Exercise
A statement from the Department of Defense says Secretary Chuck Hagel "has approved a request from the Kingdom of Jordan for a detachment of F-16s and Patriot Missiles to remain in Jordan following the conclusion of the Eager Lion Exercise next week."
Update At 10 a.m. ET. Kerry: Chemical Weapons Use Jeopardizes Political Settlement
Reuters quotes Secretary of State John Kerry as saying Syria's use of chemical weapons "threatens to put a political settlement out of reach."
Meanwhile, the news agency also reports that 71 Syrian army officers, including six generals, have defected to Turkey.
treestar
(82,383 posts)This one is clearly telling us what to think.