US Voters Say Snowden Is Whistle-Blower-Not Traitor-Quinnipiac University Nat'l Poll-Big Shift

[kpete]

Source: Quinnipiac University

uly 10, 2013 - U.S. Voters Say Snowden Is Whistle-Blower, Not Traitor, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Big Shift On Civil Liberties vs. Counter-Terrorism
PDF format

American voters say 55 - 34 percent that Edward Snowden is a whistle-blower, rather than a traitor, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today.

In a massive shift in attitudes, voters say 45 - 40 percent the government's anti-terrorism efforts go too far restricting civil liberties, a reversal from a January 10, 2010, survey by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University when voters said 63 - 25 percent that such activities didn't go far enough to adequately protect the country.

Almost every party, gender, income, education, age and income group regards Snowden as a whistle-blower rather than a traitor. The lone exception is black voters, with 43 percent calling him a traitor and 42 percent calling him a whistle-blower.

There is a gender gap on counter-terrorism efforts as men say 54 - 34 percent they have gone too far and women say 47 - 36 percent they have not gone far enough. There is little difference among Democrats and Republicans who are about evenly divided. Independent voters say 49 - 36 percent that counter-terrorism measures have gone too far.



Read more: http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1919

---

another link (not PDF)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/10/1222479/-Quinnipiac-Massive-Shift-as-Public-Now-Says-War-on-Terror-Has-Gone-Too-Far

[RufusTFirefly]

1. Silly voters! They need some shills at a popular Democratic Web site to help set them straight. n/t

[I love weed]

3. Remember -

Your vote maaaaaaaaters!

[treestar]

2. Probably know almost nothing about him but what they hear on the news

and plenty of the pundits use that term. Also the choice is false. He's not either. Not a traitor. Not a whistleblower.

[I love weed]

4. Umm...

Yes, he is a whistle blower. He blew the whistle on the government's blatantly violating our constitutional rights.

If the government violates the supreme law of the land, then We the People, the final guardians of this law, must recognize that the government is illegitimate. One cannot "betray" an illegitimate government.

Snowden is a hero.

The tragic thing is, people don't care. Polls this & that, who cares? Do you see anything changing? Is anybody even talking about it much?

The sad truth is that as long as people get their alcohol, drugs, smart phones, porn, brainless reality TV shows, video games, etc., then they are satisfied and will go along with anything their government does.

Governments only ever really get in trouble with the people when the economy is really down and people's standards of living are dropping significantly. That affects them personally. Everything else is just talk.

[Zorro]

6. Are our constitutional rights violated by cops on the side of the road with radar guns?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

8. I think so.

[Ash_F]

20. Roads are public areas

Are you comparing that with recording private communication?









Are you for real?

[Zorro]

49. Care to answer the question?

[EC]

9. Why is this an

ILLEGITIMATE GOVERNMENT?


Since no one else asked I will. What do you mean?

[heaven05]

13. you're

right about the sheeple, their toys and money/economy. I don't know if illegitimate is right. Committing Anti Constitutional illegal acts against citizens in the name of providing 'security' was addressed by Jefferson. Protect me! Drone them! Spy on me! Snowden is part tool, part idealist, all Libertarian, but he is not a criminal. I am glad he put the ugly our government commits in the name of 'providing security' on front street.

[warrant46]

52. Absolutely true about the sheep

Murdock and Fox have judged them correctly and that's why the great unwashed and ill informed love their Honey Boo Boo and the Duck Dynasty

[treestar]

36. Still, without the choice "leaker"

it's not really valid. If you only have a choice between traitor and whistleblower, then you don' t have the full range of choices.

[Demit]

5. You're right. They probably don't care about his personal details as much as what he revealed.

From the link:

'When Quinnipiac University asked voters in January, 2010, whether they thought the government had gone too far restricting civil liberties or not gone far enough to protect the country, not more than 35 percent of any demographic group thought it had gone too far. ...

"The change in public attitudes has been extraordinary, almost across the board and obviously not just related to the revelation of the phone-scanning program, given all that has transpired since 2010," said Brown. "Yet it would be naive to see these numbers as anything but evidence of a rethinking by the public about the tradeoffs between security and freedom." '

[Demeter]

7. I hope Kerry, Feinstein, Clapper and Co. are sweating

Bunch of deceivers.

[lumberjack_jeff]

12. They are probably taking comfort from the gender gap on the issue.

Women tend to vote Democratic. Women, (by a margin of 47-36) want more wiretaps.

[MjolnirTime]

10. He's still going to jail. Sorry fans.

[Progressive dog]

11. Who would have guessed,

Some of the largest growth in those concerned about the threat to civil liberties is among men and Republicans, groups historically more likely to be supportive of governmental anti- terrorism efforts

I wonder why they're no longer supportive?

[Volaris]

18. Are you SURE you want that question answered? =)

and yes, I know it was rhetorical lol.

[onehandle]

14. The question they asked assumes they know the details.

'Do you regard Edward Snowden, the national security consultant who released information to the media about the phone scanning program, as more of a traitor, or more of a whistle-blower?'

Why didn't they follow up with this question?:

Do you regard Edward Snowden, who ran away to hide in countries that do not wish us well, rather than stand up like a man in his home country, as more of a hero, or more of a douchebag?

[frylock]

23. stand up like a man...

hmmmnnn.....

[onehandle]

28. Daniel Ellsberg and Bradley Manning did so. nt

[frylock]

31. yes they did. look where manning is now..

and snowden has Ellsberg's backing, 100%. Ellsberg sez snowden did the right thing by leaving the country.

[cstanleytech]

57. Except Manning had a perfectly legal way to whistleblow about anything he thought was illegal

which is by telling varies members of congress or even the inspector general plus Manning made a similar mistake that Snowden has made which is he didnt stop at whistleblowing on one specific thing but rather Manning provided classified documents to wikileaks that had zero to do any kinda of coverup over the helicopter incident he felt needed to have the whistle blown on.
Snowden made a similar mistake when he didnt stop just at the NSA working with the telecoms but also revealed the efforts of US intelligence agencies on accessing computers in China.

[grasswire]

27. oh, now, THAT question of yours would be objective. Not!

Sounds like something straight from Fox News.

[treestar]

37. Exactly - without the choice of "leaker"

it is not a valid question to even answer. Plus they should know he seeks asylum in countries with no whistleblower protections.

[JoePhilly]

15. And a week ago, when some one posted a poll showing the American people

supported the government surveillance program, some here said the American people just aren't so bright.

But with a new poll, now the American people are geniuses.

Too funny.

[OilemFirchen]

40. From the same poll:

While voters support the phone-scanning program 51 - 45 percent and say 54 - 40 percent that it "is necessary to keep Americans safe," they also say 53 - 44 percent that the program "is too much intrusion into Americans' personal privacy."

Your standards then. Did the public revert back to being idiots in the last few hours?

[Laelth]

16. k&r for exposure. n/t

-Laelth

[progressoid]

17. Quinnipiac is obviously racist.

[HardTimes99]

29. and Libertarian :sarcasm: - nt

[brush]

19. He's both if he released info to foreign gov. nt

[Ash_F]

21. Once people realize these programs haven't stopped a single attack, it will be higher /nt

[L0oniX]

22. K & R ...a university poll just might be more intellectually valid than one from the general pulic.

[shawn703]

24. He crossed the line for me

Once he did this:
http://news.yahoo.com/snowden-says-us-targets-included-china-cell-phones-073119007.html

and this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/30/nsa-leaks-us-bugging-european-allies

and this:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/07/09/196257/new-snowden-allegations-rile-latin.html#.Ud1_gaz1U40

We should have a discussion on surveillance activities by intelligence agencies on US citizens, but letting foreign powers know how we are gathering intelligence on them crosses the line.

[AlinPA]

26. It's the "how", not the "what" that he disclosed that crosses the line.

[HardTimes99]

32. Just curious about line crossing for you. Does allowing the former political

leaders of our country escape justice for torture, war crimes and crimes against humanity 'cross the line' for you also?

As long as Bush and Cheney walk freely, 'justice' is a sham and appeals to the authority of the state are just so much hollowed-out bullshit, imho.

[Californeeway]

50. This crying over Bush not going to jail just strikes me as naive.

It was never a realistic possibility. No administration ever investigates a previous administration because it opens up the door to infinite political monkey shines.

Obama could have sent his justice dept after Bush and spent millions investigating everything and come up with just enough to throw a handful of low-level people in jail and nothing that would have got the real perpetrators any kind of real time in jail if any at all. All the low-end people would be promised pardons the moment an (R) came into power and would be paid off sweetly to protect the assholes at the top with their silence. Basically:a huge fucking waste of time that would do nothing but stir shit and distract from the pressing issue at that time, the fact that the economy was imploding. But in the middle of that implosion, everything should have been focused on a hopeless fool's errand going after the Bush Admin?

Then we could look forward to every Republican president to come after Obama making a point of investigating every previous Democratic admin again and again and again whether there was any reason to investigate or not.

This is why people don't take Liberals seriously. Pie-in-the-sky shit like this.

[JoeyT]

51. Defending looking forward on war crimes?

Yes, he might not have won, but he's a coward for not trying. Either because he's afraid the next administration might try to gin something up or because he's afraid the next administration might prosecute an actual crime.

Oh, and Cheney admitted to war crimes on national television. So your "pie in the sky" claim is pure bullshit. This is why people don't take defenses of this administration seriously: More often that not they're based on falsehoods or omission.

[cstanleytech]

58. I dont recall him defending Bush rather he explained why Obama didnt waste time trying

to go after him.
Believe me I would cheer if Bush was sent to prison but I just dont see it as an achievable goal.

[HardTimes99]

54. My post was directed at Shawn703's proclivity for drawing lines, the

easier to hold people accountable for crossing them. I was not crying over Bush "not going to jail." I was decrying the fact that Bush, Cheney and the entire Junta will escape accountability in the form of investigation, indictment, trial and verdict (and, at the very end, a sentence).

If Snowden crossed any line (arguable), then surely Bush and Cheney crossed the chasm between civilization and barbarity.

You can call a desire to see justice done 'naive.' Myself, I prefer to think that no man is above the law, even though reality often convinces me otherwise, particularly when those who face the bar of justice lack adequate funds.

Want to know whe people don't take Obama seriously any longer? Because he chases Snowden with a ferocity unseen in the annals of modern man, all the while declaring he won't 'scramble jets.' Meanwhile, an admitted torturer (Cheney) openly brags about his war crimes on national television and there's not so much as an investigation.

BTW, I'm not a "liberal," I'm a radical.

[NoOneMan]

34. What may be the most disturbing part of the entire operations...

It isn't just that the USA is spying on other countries, they are cooperating with Canada/Australia/EU to track citizens and communications across the globe in an organized, symbiotic manner. Who is really in charge of this spying and what, ultimately, is the purpose of it all? Is there anywhere anyone can go anymore to live a private life outside of the gaze of the empires?

[christx30]

42. How can we haved that discussion

if no one knows about it? If the whole process is secret and anyone that wants to say anything about it ends up in jail?
So I'm glad Snowden did his thing. I hope he's able to stay free, and I hope more of this information comes out.

[shawn703]

47. When he first released the information about domestic spying

That was enough information for purposes of discussion. Why did he need to go further and release information about our spying activities on other nations?

[christx30]

56. And I'm perfectly ok with that.

That crap shouldn't be happening in a democracy. If it can make the people responsible for this surveillance juggernaut uncomfortable, I'm good with it.
I was uncomfortable with it when it started out as unwarranted wiretaps after 9/11. Eleven years later, I'm still uncomfortable with it. Maybe you're cool with all of it.

[shawn703]

59. If you're okay with disclosing surveillance activities to our geopolitical rivals

We don't have much more to discuss on this topic.

[Ash_F]

53. Because foreigners are not people, right?

All those countries are allied trade partners. The elite respect their money, but not their rights. Is that your view too?

[shawn703]

55. Of course they're people

But I would call the Chinese rivals more than allies. And it would be insane to think the Chinese aren't watching Americans. Even Israel, one of our so-called strongest allies, has been caught spying on us. Nobody really trusts anybody and everyone looks out for themselves out of necessity. Trying to be the nation that takes the high road on foreign surveillance would be suicidal in my opinion.

[AlinPA]

25. Saw a cartooon in June that had him as a "Traitriot".

[polynomial]

30. The noise of chaos

The ultimate missed point is Booz Allen and Hamilton originally was a corporate PR firm. To me PR usually means Public Relation. Public Relations people to some are a very hyperbolic name for marketing people.

You better believe there are some heavy weight connections to either Republican or the Democratic Party totally wired to this company in stocks and bonds and derivatives in that secret trillion dollar derivative market that is not regulated.

Chances are highly likely the infrastructure in the computer department at Booz Allen and Hamilton has mainly statistical means testing for sales projections, to make lists for sales to make money. This is the real Bubble Mathematics of the core corruption, that bell curve stuff, the speed bump in corruption corporate America.

Meta files taken from declassified secret stuff are the cream of the crop data base especially when it’s financed through middle class and poor tax dollars. Snowden released this stuff that could very well been the center core of the secret war game scam politicians on top thought is too big to fail.

Talk about the coolest way to tap the American citizen and privately keep it secret forever plus have the best greatest freshest list of sales probability in a money making history to know where, and when are the habits of any and all Americans that use telecommunications.

Talk about a marketing freak-out. An insider government scam blinded by national security compelling for anyone to join in domestically and internationally without being caught. The lineup for this data base must be a waiting line so long and so big it is too big to fail. Unless someone blows the whistle.

[AnneD]

33. And this voter is not so stupid.....

That she thinks the story is about Snowden. Why do we even have need for a program like prism in the first place, especially without over site to protect my rights.

And while we are on the subject, why do we have so much intelligence and can't seem to find enough evidence to prosecute some Wall Street criminals. Oh I forgot, Eric Holder is a useless sack of shit.

[NoOneMan]

35. "Why do we even have need for a program like prism in the first place"

Seriously. Why?

This program really implies the people (who the state is supposed to work for) are the enemies or potential enemies of the state, an entity that is separate, elevated and whose existence supercedes the rights of the people. By any reasonable definition, this is fascism.

[AnneD]

38. Now....

You get the big picture.

Edited to add...it makes no difference if it is a GOP screaming at you or a DEM sweetly whispering it in you ear... Either way, you have still been f&@$ed over citizen. We are all in the Gulag. Some people just have nicer cells that's all.

[grantcart]

39. It is an interesting result but the use of the word "traitor" may have been a factor.

Traitor goes beyond merely releasing secrets and actively working for an enemy.

I assume that many people who don't agree with his actions don't consider him a traitor.

Nevertheless I am impressed on the number of people who appeared to know his name.

[OilemFirchen]

41. Fascinating question.

When was Snowden charged with treason?

Better question:

Is Eddie hopelessly naive or simply stupid?

[Harmony Blue]

43. Look at that...

[Tarheel_Dem]

44. Voters seem to be fickled.

"While voters support the phone-scanning program 51 - 45 percent and say 54 - 40 percent that it "is necessary to keep Americans safe," they also say 53 - 44 percent that the program "is too much intrusion into Americans' personal privacy."

I notice they didn't ask if Snowden should be prosecuted. The early polls showed pretty much these same results, but the same number of people thought he broke the law, and should be prosecuted.

[Harmony Blue]

45. The isssue isn't clear cut as you portray it

that does not mean one is fickle if you view it pragmatically.

[Tarheel_Dem]

46. !!!

[indepat]

48. Big brother cares not a whit what the public thinks. The proof is in the way the Congress

votes.