Senator Ron Wyden: White House considering scaling back data collection

[think]

Source: The Guardian

Top surveillance critic says he believes Obama is increasingly concerned about privacy issues around NSA collection

Spencer Ackerman in Washington
guardian.co.uk, Friday 12 July 2013 11.43 EDT

~Snip~

One of the leading civil liberties supporters in the US Senate has said the Obama administration is considering scaling back its bulk collection of Americans' phone records.

Ron Wyden, Democrat of Oregon and a member of the Senate intelligence committee, told the New York Times that he believed the administration was increasingly concerned about the privacy implications raised by a surveillance effort it has performed for four and a half years, after National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden revealed it to the Guardian.

"I have a feeling that the administration is getting concerned about the bulk phone records collection, and that they are thinking about whether to move administratively to stop it," Wyden told the Times.

Aides to Wyden said on Friday that the statement was based on public comments from executive branch officials and the senator's prior experience with the termination of a bulk email collection program in 2011, something the Guardian recently reported. The administration has given Wyden no additional assurances of changes to the phone records collection, the aides said.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/12/senator-ron-wyden-white-house-data-collection

[Wilms]

1. Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!

I was just beginning to like it.

I guess Obama, too, is a racist.

[allin99]

58. lmao. but to be fair, he's only *considering* being racist.

[JDPriestly]

2. I hope so. This could be dangerous if we had an administration that was inclined to abuse the

program. The orders are too broad. The FISA court is too secret. The Congress is too bound by the secrecy.

[Skinner]

3. Good to hear.

I hope they do.

[Maedhros]

6. Snowden's actions are bearing fruit! [n/t]

[Mojorabbit]

12. So do I! nt

[flpoljunkie]

22. If true, this would be good, indeed.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

63. If they do, will it help?

It sounds like the purists will refuse any fig-leaf Obama offers, so just like when he deals with the GOP, it won't actually make the situation any better, and likely just a lot worse.

So, even though greater scrutiny isn't a bad idea, I guess I kind of hope they don't.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Skinner]

66. This isn't about appeasing political critics.

It's about the policy itself. It is the right thing to do. What Obama's critics have to say about it is irrelevant.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

76. You can't take the politics out of politics

If he scales back data collection the next new terrorist incident, regardless of their overall rarity, becomes an attack ad subject next election, and something for the media to relentlessly pound.

This will hurt Democratic chances, which may not mean much in a hyper-democratic majority state like California, but it means a lot more in others.

So even if I agreed that the data collection that has been revealed is morally wrong (and so far as I've seen, it's just standard operating procedure of what every major country does), I still put more importance on things that actually save lives: Health care. Anti-poverty programs. Slowing global warming. Food stamps. School lunches. Definitely school lunches.

There is real suffering out in rural America that has nothing to do with the $5-latte crowd worried about the NSA viewing their porn.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Skinner]

78. I think it's pretty clear that you don't agree it's wrong.

Which might explain why you are also claiming it's not particularly important to you.

I happen to think the fourth amendment to the constitution is kind of important, and that the government collecting metadata on everyone's phone calls is way beyond the scope of what the fourth amendment should allow. (And it should be noted that phone call metadata would reveal nothing about my taste in porn. In fact, the only embarrassing thing it would reveal about me is that sometimes I don't call my mother back in a timely manner.)

There are some issues for which it is worth paying some political capital. For me, this is one of them.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

79. Political capital is indeed the essence of it

If there were solid 98% Democratic majorities in all states, and terrorism did not capture the imaginations of the public quite so vividly, then sure, scale it back. Not because I believe it is really against the 4th Amendment (metadata = outside of mail envelopes), but because a lot of it is a waste of money.

The real Snowden scandal was skipped over on nearly the first day: that the government was paying $200,000 for a highschool dropout. Money like that, paid to likely everyone in the NSA, is a lot of school teachers, parks, lunches, and head-start classes. Things that would be better.

But back to the point, we don't live in that kind of world. To my mind President Obama is spending his political capitol very wisely. At least if you measure it in lives. 'Obamacare' is literally going to save hundreds of thousands of American lives over the next ten years. Had be been able to get some common-sense background checks through Congress (which he tried to by spending his political capitol), it would have saved hundreds of thousands more. And his unilateral actions to scale back global warming is the first start at trying to save humanity from itself. Potentially billions.

How many people's lives would be directly saved if the NSA were entirely disbanded? I'm not sure you could say any.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[nolabels]

75. A fig leaf?

Really, it is kind of funny when you think about it.

So this agency, NSA with it's subordinates and affiliates, has been unscrupulously trying spy on the entire world's population, but lately they have had a little change of heart, so they have offered a fig leaf and will try to do it somewhat less.

Just ludicrous on the face of it, but thanks for the laughs

[Autumn]

4. Oh please let this happen.

K/R

[Solly Mack]

5. K&R

[dixiegrrrrl]

7. When pigs fly.

Now the Gov't has been caught using a variety of sneaky moves to spy on us, and everybody/anybody they want to,
and we know the spying has gone on for years, there is no way all the various players are going to give up their toys.

And lookee here....."whether to move administratively to stop it," implies that Wyden thinks they CAN stop it.
If they indeed the admin. can stop it, then why has Obama not stopped it?
Is it because he did not want to?
or
because he is not allowed to?

The CIA, the FBI, NSA, Pentagon, State dept all involved in Spying, along with their counterparts in other countries....
no matter who has been in the Oval Office....
paints a much different picture than Wyden's somewhat naive "administratively" stopping it.

Lastly, who would believe it has been stopped if a President says it has, at this late date?

[KoKo]

13. Sadly...while I would like to belive Wyden's hope...agree with you

It's gone to far to stop it. There are too many "Big Players" who are involved and if they got this far...they sure as hell aren't going to stop it. It would be "useful" though for us to BELIEVE that they are trying so we would "move on." OR...as they say..."Look Forward" not "Backward."

"Oh what a tangled web they weave when first they practice to deceive..." (famous quote)

[Hydra]

14. I read this as "Too much heat, we need to move it back into the shadows."

Which doesn't mean they'll stop doing it, but it won't be legal in court to use it against people, which I think they were working up to.

We'll have to see, though- we already had one promise to dismantle all of this, and it's clear that it not only wasn't that done, it actually got upgrades.

[cantbeserious]

44. Yes - Astute Conjecture - Nothing Like Turning Out The Lights To Reduce Suspicions

eom

[shanti]

70. Question:

Why do you capitalize every word in your posts?

[cantbeserious]

72. To Make The Reply Stand Out - These Titles Are Like The Start To Articles - Hence The Capitalization

eom

[Demeter]

68. Whereas I think that Predator Drones should blow up the data storage and collection centers

Let the fascists create human shields around them, too.

The 1% have got to be crazy.

[cantbeserious]

73. + 1,000,000

eom

[merrily]

45. Cutting back on mass surveillance doesn't matter, even if it's true.

The Fourth Amendment is based on the premise of "I have reason(s) to believe that this specific person (or persons) may have committed a crime or may be about to commit a crime. These are my reasons for my "reasonable belief:" (add specifics here),

So, I seek a warrant to investigate these specific persons."

I don't care what any court rules. The 4th was never intended to cover "Someone somewhere might commit a crime someday, so I need a warrant to monitor everyone."

Monitoring only 25% of "everyone", or even only .25% of everyone does not cure the Constitutional defect. The Constitutional issue is not about which number of persons gets monitored.

[woo me with science]

64. Thank you. nt

[BornLooser]

8. Sen. Wyden as W.H. spokesperson....hmmmm...

[avaistheone1]

9. I sure hope so. But, I will believe it when it can be proven.

Too many special interests making big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ spying on Americans from them to stop doing it.

imo

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

10. Not surprised. This White House is receptive to all valid concerns.

Of course how they respond is never enough for some.

[merrily]

46. LOL!

[dotymed]

67. LMFAO...

[MjolnirTime]

11. Wyden sure does like to blather alot.

[think]

16. What has he been blathering about?

[Coyotl]

40. Why would you say that? Not to mention, it is part of his job representing me.

I hope he speaks out even more than he has! Meanwhile, calling a senator speaking out on an important issue blather seems like trolling to me.

[neverforget]

41. He's my Senator and he's a good one too just like Senator Merkley. Blathering?

Because looking out for privacy issues is blathering.

[merrily]

47. Same can be said of every politician on the planet. And?

[Vanje]

15. Thats good. I hope so

Feet to the fire!

Ya know, one day, I hope long in the future, but you never know, because those bastards cheat,,, there will be another odious republican administration.
Some here may have confidence that Obama will not abuse phone and meta-data collection, but really, would you be so comfortable with a Romney, a Bush, or their like, having access to everyone's private conversations?

Its a Nixon wet dream.
It needs to be shut-the-fuck-down.

[truedelphi]

82. Yes it does need to be shut down.

Of course, many of us won't be able to believe them should they tell us "we are scaling the program back" or "we are shutting the program down."

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

[MotherPetrie]

17. Uh-huh. Fool me once...

[indepat]

18. Why would the WH weaken national security by scaling back on data collection unless

the data collection to be scaled back wasn't really enhancing national security? Inquiring minds want to know whether the data collection to be scaled back was really enhancing national security or was it just an intrusive emasculation of constitutional protections just because big brother can do that with impunity and without concern of possible blow-back.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

61. Because the constant obstruction around it would do even worse damage to national security?

Not to mention letting Republicans win where they couldn't before, screwing over the working poor. That's the likely answer.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[GeorgeGist]

19. Reading is fundamental.

"I HAVE A FEELING that the administration is getting concerned about the bulk phone records collection, and that they are thinking about whether to move administratively to stop it," Wyden told the Times.

[Android3.14]

20. Sounds like a trial balloon

We should cheer ithis balloon on. If Obama does scale it back, I'm all for it and him, but we must insist on public oversight to insure it really is scaled back, and we should continue to push for recognition that the current program violates the Fourth Amendment.

[Laelth]

32. Agreed. Trial balloon that needs a strong and positive response.

Whether a strong and positive response will work is another question, but it's something useful that we can do.

-Laelth

[merrily]

48. No thanks. I am not cheering a Constitutional violation simply because it MAY involve fewer victims

than the current practice.

And I am never going to cheer simply because Obama says something. Been there, done that, literally got the Obama Biden T Shirt from the campaign.

[rhett o rick]

21. This falls way short. I want to know what Booz-Allen and the Crlyle Group's roll is in the

data collection and compilation.

I want the Patriot Act repealed and the FISA Law fixed.

I want a special law passed that says that Clapper, Mueller, and Comey cant ever receive compensation of any kind from Booz-Allen or any affiliated corporation.

[think]

23. Agree /nt

[totodeinhere]

24. If this is true then it turns out that Snowden did perform a vital public service.

If his revelations force them to cut back on surveillance then that is definitely a step in the right direction. But what we really need is repeal of the Patriot Act.

[merrily]

49. No if about it. Snowden did perform a vital public service.

Telling the public the truth about what its government is doing at great cost to yourself is a public service, no matter how much the government denies it or refuses to change.

It's a shame that the Espionage Act seeks to make that public service exercise of truthful political speech tantamount to treason.

[raindaddy]

80. Exactly

He accomplished what Wyden wanted to do but couldn't because of security restrictions. Obama did promise us a "more open and transparent" government this might also be considered a public intervention in the name of honesty.

[frazzled]

25. The next administration could reinstate it, however

So, to loosely quote many here: it's not about Obama. We know he already stopped the email metadata program, so it doesn't surprise me that he would scale back on other aspects of surveillance, especially if they haven't been all that effective. (In this respect, I imagine that the intelligence gap for the Boston Marathon bombing will weigh as heavily in his considerations as l'Affaire Snowden does.)

What would need to happen is for Congress--you know, that Congress that can't agree on anything and hasn't passed anything more significant than a post office naming in the past eight months--to revise portions of the Patriot Act to specifically address specific surveillance methods.

[merrily]

50. We don't know squat. We only have someone's word for it. But, right, it is not about Obama.

[Helen Borg]

26. "bulk collection of Americans' phone records"

Of course, all other electronic means of communications are fair game. Phone communications play a very small part of my life these days, not sure about most people.

[think]

28. Just a stirring of the tea leaves but at least they are stirring...

[carolinayellowdog]

27. their diffidence of late in public statements have made me think something is up

Carney was rather truculent about Snowden, but Obama knows by now that this is not playing well with the public and that people want some accountability. I think he's hearing wildly conflicting voices in the inner circle and after the Morales affair, some recriminations are in order. If Obama doubles down on providing an improved version of Bush/Cheney's America instead of a repudiation of it, support from his base will plummet. So some kind of olive branch might be forthcoming, how sincere who knows but future historians?

[HooptieWagon]

29. Translation: We'll be even more secret, so you don't know.

There's already been so much secrecy and lying, that I'll believe it when I see it.
"Trust, but verify".

[daleo]

56. There will be a secret secret court

Secret courts all the way down.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

30. "THE ADMINISTRATION HAS GIVEN WYDEN NO ADDITIONAL ASSURANCES OF CHANGES"! n/t

[Major Hogwash]

37. OMG!!!!! CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN RIGHT NOW!!!!!

[AnotherMcIntosh]

38. No Congressman is in charge of the let's-spy-upon-all-Americans policy.

You can call whoever you want. Such a call won't change a thing.

[Major Hogwash]

39. Oh, that's sad.

But, if you don't call your congressman right now, how will he ever know how you feels about it??

[Doctor_J]

31. Another launch from the Trial Balloon Admin

one thing they're very good at.

[Laelth]

33. k&r for exposure. n/t

-Laelth

[forestpath]

34. Suuuuuure it is.

[PSPS]

35. Bad headline. The story really says that Wyden "wants to believe" it. He also "has a feeling."

Of course, this is meaningless. Anyone who thinks they can trust this government has mush for brains or has an authoritarian complex. As long as everything is "a secret" with no public accountability, nothing will change. We're still in Bush's fourth term.

[DCBob]

60. I suspect he knows something.. why else would he make a statement like this.

[freedom fighter jh]

36. We need more than that.

If they're deciding on their own to "administratively stop it" then they can start it again. Or the next administration can.

It needs to be clear that the government's blanket surveillance program is illegal. Congress needs to amend the PATRIOT Act or the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act or whatever act is supposed to authorize all this activity and make it clear that blanket, routine surveillance of American citizens is illegal. They also need to require the NSA to publish the workings of all programs (which will become illegal) that violate the Fourth Amendment, so that the American people will know what their government has done. And they need to destroy the data collected under these programs.

[Kelvin Mace]

42. Not going to happen

The police state is here to stay and it will just get worse, not better.

[blkmusclmachine]

43. Meh.

[merrily]

51. The Fourth Amendment is not about how many people get spied on.

[Little Star]

52. lol. Caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

[fredamae]

53. Now this could get interesting....

IF we are allowed info on the ensuing "chain of events" we might learn who, exactly, Is in charge.
I have absolutely NO idea if it's true or not--but does anyone recall a few days ago there was a few folks posting about "Is the NSA Blackmailing Obama?"...
That gave me cause to pause.......
Again, this could prove interesting...

[polynomial]

54. Stars and stripes forever the flag is waving

My fourth of July renewal...


American government is sliding into a “Deadwood” character. For those who don’t know the story of Deadwood is perpetrated in an HBO series about the Black Hills of Dakota’s during one of America’s first depressions, and the Gold rush that is associated with this depression.

Today that gold is basic “Meta Data” shovel ready in the electromagnetic telecommunications system.

All supposed to be regulated to prevent profiteering, all regulated to serve the public by information and education in civics, science, government issues, disasters, current events, and economics. Etc. All violated in the basic constitutional reasoning.

Now a system so secret connected to the big banking system, government officials, corporations, and the war efforts, all tied together that function in pure profiteering arena called the trillion dollar derivative free market unregulated and secret done under the national security war effort is so compelling using data from all Americans’ is the most powerful economic tool used for profiteering in which way too many good or bad politicians have been knowing or unknowing is deeply seated and enriched by secret efforts through the years.

And, mostly, mostly, and for a third time as the cock crows, mainstream media, cultured with commercials turning instilling life styles with this Meta Data is center stage complicit to all this travesty that is antithetical to the basic American dream besides unconstitutional. I submit that the American media has always had insider access to what this Meta data base is and what it can do to influence commercial marketing. That's wrong and the media have no recourse but to lie about it.

This is what Snowden helped reveal. I have learned something here, being honest might be the highest form of treason. That issue certainly needs to be adjusted in the new constitution. That’s what Snowden is revealing to all Americans. From my view Snowden should be the chose elected official by popular support to help America understand what is happening along with those who support him.

It is the same principle a president chooses a person to work for the public.

In this case whereas we the people here by choose Snowden to be released suspended from treasonous reasons to be able to represent the popular majority by vote in a national election described and held immediately for this purpose to be resolved.

Common America our representatives are not there for us and the media sure is not, perhaps a national write in vote on the 2014 ballot. In short everyone in America that will be able to vote write in the same simple statement.

Snowden is my candidate to investigate corruption in America.

Can you imagine being a whistle blower for all America can be the platform for anyone of the free society to elevate anyone being honesty with integrity to serve all Americans? This has to be a very cool way to go America.

[winter is coming]

57. Scaling back from "way too fucking much" to "too fucking much" would be my guess. n/t

[DCBob]

59. I was expecting this. Its the appropriate thing to do given the circumstances.

People are freaked out by the program and I suspect they can scale it back it a bit without harming effectiveness.

[caseymoz]

62. Yeah, right.

They're throwing us a bone. A toe-bone, and it's a bait 'n' switch.

[woo me with science]

65. Bullshit. You don't "scale back" on violations of the Fourth Amendment.

You END them.

[SHRED]

69. Only gonna violate the 4th a little bit...LOL

[bitchkitty]

71. Too funny! n/t

[Th1onein]

74. This needs to be filed under "So The Eff What?"

So what? They're "considering" it? That means that, under another president, or simply anytime Obama has a change of heart, we can be spied on again, wholesale, like we are right now.

This makes the spying a matter of policy, not a matter of law. WE NEED TO GET RID OF THE PATRIOT ACT. Period.

[Owl]

77. The weasel word is "considering".

[Gumboot]

81. We need to get rid of the 'Patriot' Act...

... and the Military Comissions Act.