Juror Says She Owes Martin's Parents Apology

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Juror Says She Owes Martin's Parents Apology
ORLANDO, Fla. July 25, 2013 (AP)

The second juror to speak publicly about George Zimmerman's trial tells ABC News that she feels the neighborhood watch volunteer got away with murder for fatally shooting Trayvon Martin. But she says there wasn't enough evidence to convict him under Florida law.

Juror B29 told Robin Roberts in an interview made public Thursday that she favored convicting Zimmerman of second-degree murder when deliberations began. But by the second day of deliberating, she realized there wasn't enough proof to convict Zimmerman of a crime.

Juror B29 is the second juror to go public with what went on during deliberations earlier this month. She allowed her face to be seen and used her first name, Maddy, unlike JurorB37 who was interviewed on CNN last week with her face obscured.


Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/juror-owes-martins-parents-apology-19774424

---

(Very short article, no more at link.)

[Iliyah]

1. UGH

enough said.

[NYtoBush-Drop Dead]

46. It's florida!

You can kill your child and walk free! If only we could move the Congress there.

[DrDan]

57. there wasn't enough evidence - read the article

and that is the system throughout the U.S. - not just Florida

[Fringe]

68. Exactly!

Florida is dead to me now.

They will never get another dime of my money. For so many years they've avoided the racist state label because of a pair of mouse ears, but much of Florida is just the more southern part of southern Georgia.

[lunamagica]

2. I don't know. I've heard how under the law there was not other alternative but to acquit,

that Martin was seen on top, etc.

But had I been on that jury, Rachel J's testimony that Travon said "get off, get off" would have been enough for me to (forgive me for saying this) "stand my ground" and NOT acquit. I could have maybe been moved from 2 degree to Manslaughter, but I would have stayed for as long as it took to convict

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

3. And for me, it wouldn't matter who was on top.

There was no evidence that Zimmerman's life was in danger. No DNA, no injuries consistent with someone getting their head "smashed in at least 20 times," etc.

Yes, she and the other jurors do owe the Martin/Fulton family a MAJOR apology, but they will have to live with their decision for the rest of their lives.

[LiberalFighter]

7. Yes! IMO Trayvon was the only one justified to use SYG.

[cstanleytech]

11. Oh it matters however imo what matters more is that the 911 operator

told him to stay in his car and wait for the police and not to follow Martin who as of that time wasnt committing any crime but he disobeyed the operator and followed Martin so imo it was manslaughter.
Why the jury didnt seem to take that into consideration I dont know

[Thav]

45. Because they were told not to.

[DrDan]

58. that is not breaking any law - that's what it is all about

he had NO legal obligation to "obey"

a moral obligation perhaps - but no legal one

[cstanleytech]

67. Notice I never said he had a legal obligation to obey them though.

However it could have been argued that the entire incident could have been avoided if Zimmerman had heeded the advice of the 911 operator and not followed Martin thus avoiding the whole chain of events that followed as Martin of that moment was not as of that moment any threat to Zimmerman himself.

[GreenStormCloud]

87. Z was NOT told to stay in his truck.

Read the transcript. He was already out of his truck when the operator asked if he was following TM and was told, "We don't need you to do that."

However, he was stupid to have gotten out of his truck and follow.

[YarnAddict]

25. I don't think it matters whether his life

was actually in danger; the question is whether he THOUGHT his life was in danger. No one can say what was in his mind . . .

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

33. No! The physical evidence demonstrates NO

life threatening injuries.

[YarnAddict]

36. Again--

it's his own perception, not the reality of the severity of the injuries. In self-defense, I believe it is only a matter of whether YOU believe your life is in danger, or if you believe you are in danger of serious injury. You don't have to wait until you actually sustain a serious or life-threatening injjury.

[Judi Lynn]

38. You really should be ashamed to keep peddling that crappola here.

He knew damned well he was not in danger of serious injury. HE WAS THE STALKER.

If he feared getting hurt, he should have hauled his ass back to his thunderbuggy and gone back home where he belonged, unless his wife couldn't stand to be around him, either.

[YarnAddict]

39. The jury believed

that at some point Trayvon doubled back, attacked Z, was on top (as witnessed by a credible eyewitness,) and that he believed his life was in danger. I'm not peddling any crappola. I'm reciting the facts, as presented to the jury, upon which they based their decision of "not guilty."

[Tutonic]

44. reciting facts?

Or the testimony of a group of Zimmerman supporters? Not sure if those are facts.

[Lurks Often]

63. That is what the PROSECUTION stated

the prosecution puts Martin on top of Zimmerman and since they failed to give an alternative version of how Zimmerman received his injuries, the prosecution essentially conceded that Martin was responsible for the injuries to Zimmerman's face and the back of his head.

[pkdu]

51. Bullshit!....it's NOT what Zimmerman believed...it's what a reasonable person in same circumstances

Would have believed.

[Lurks Often]

64. So how many times can I hit your head against the pavement

before you feel you are in reasonable fear of death or a grave bodily injury?

[pkdu]

69. Now that we have established the fact you were wrong on the initial point...lets look at this one.

What evidence was presented to support this happened?

A. Zimmerman testimony ( his word , that is all that kept him out of prison)
B. Two very small cuts , one on top of head , one on back of head

No blood on sidewalk??
Self serving story about 20-30 times against concrete??
Bullshit.

[Lurks Often]

74. Try answering the very simple question

And you might want to review the testimony of all THREE Medical Examiners and the Physician's Assistant, all of whom testified that having ones head struck against the pavement multiple times can lead to death.

You also need to research the law again. No one is required to be seriously injured, merely be in reasonable fear, with reasonable defined by would the average person be in fear of death or grave bodily harm in the same situation.

Oh Yes, the PROSECUTION conceded that Martin hit Zimmerman's head against the pavement.

Let's review:
1. Prosecution fails to explain Zimmerman's wounds, there by conceding that Martin caused
2. Four separate medical professionals testified that severe injuries or death can be caused even a single blow of the head against the pavement
3. You don't understand the legal standard of when lethal force can be used in self defense.

[pkdu]

83. So much Gungeoneer shit , so little time. More response later but

1 fail...Zimmy says scary black kid did...so it's true, sure.
2 fail..."can".... So every claim on be blow is justifiable homicide?.bullshit.
3 fail...self defense my ass.

[Lurks Often]

84. Still avoiding the question I see

and you haven't explained why the prosecution acknowledges Martin was on top and their failure to give an alternative version of how Zimmerman was injured.

[Pelican]

48. Yes!

That isn't the legal standard.

As they said in court, it probably isn't wise to wait until grievous bodily harm or death has occured before you fight back.

[GreenStormCloud]

88. Self-defense isn't about the injuries you have already sustained.

It is about the injuries you fear taht you are about to sustain. By your logic a person could not defend themselves until they were already fatally wounded.

[Nevernose]

86. But he lied about his injuries and their extent

That's according to first responders, witnesses, his own doctor, and a reputable forensic pathologist.

So why would anyone -- especially the jury -- believe that he thought his life was in danger. The whole "but he THOUGHT his life was in danger" thing was a defense attorney tactic, a smokescreen to cover the fact that their client was a liar.

[YarnAddict]

93. And especally not at the time you are sustaining it. n/t

[noiretextatique]

9. troubling question: why wasn't there any zimmerman dna or bruises on martin's hands?

that's the thing that makes me seriously doubt zimmerman's version of the story.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

12. Exactly. And again, that's why it doesn't matter who ended

up on top. It matters much more about the injuries...in other words, the PHYSICAL evidence.

Basically, they just took Zimmerman and his lying friends and family's word and just ran with it, ignoring any *factual* evidence. Not heresay from Zimmerman's friends and family, but true, factual evidence.

[GreenStormCloud]

89. None of the eyewitnesses were aquainted with Z at the time of the event.

How can they be his friends if they don't know him?

[Bonduel]

13. How did he get the broken nose?

[NOLALady]

27. Probably

when Trayvon was standing his ground by defending himself.

[Skittles]

31. TRAYVON WAS DEFENDING HIMSELF AGAINST A RACIST PARANOID GUN-TOTING VIGILANTE

WHAT PART of that do you not f***ing understand???

[Pelican]

49. Lots of adjectives...

I wonder how many of them you could back up with facts.

[Skittles]

53. you're not looking for facts

you're looking for anything that will justify your sick fear and paranoia - DONE with you

[Pelican]

54. One of the most illuminating thread so far...

... was the "Which evidence convinced you Zimmerman was a racist" thread.

You could boil the whole thing down to...

"He killed a black person because he's racist!"

"How do you know?"

"He's racist because he killed a black person!"

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

34. His nose was not broken! The ME as well as

the other physical evidence showed NO broken nose!! Turn Faux News off!!

[YarnAddict]

29. Expert testimony

of Dr. Demiao, the guy who literally "wrote the book" explained lack of bruises. DNA? I think there was an explanation for that, too.

[noiretextatique]

37. you mean the defense witness?

Well...he was a paid to corroborate the murderer's story. Not a spec of dna and the murderer claimed he broke his nose?! Bullshit!

[YarnAddict]

40. Yes, the defense witness

You conveniently forget, many of the prosecution witnesses corroborated Zman's story, too. Like it or not, there wasn't enough evidence to convict under the law.

Someone pointed out yesterday, that if the state hadn't been under pressure to bring charges when they did, they may have been better able to put together a more credible case. Public pressure meant that they brought a case to court that they couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

[lolly]

42. Public pressure meant they had to bring it to trial, period.

They had no intention of trying to put together any credible case at any time. They had decided without any serious investigation that Martin was a thug (that's why they left him on ice and made no attempts to contact his parents--they just assumed he was a gangster, based only on Zimmerman's claims.)

But I guess this is the latest meme they're trying to push--if only "those people" had stayed quiet, the state could have done a decent job!

[YarnAddict]

59. so you think the state

intentionally threw its case? Why would they do that?

[YarnAddict]

72. "Daddy" is not, and has never been, a judge and

winning their case meant more to the prosecutors than the skin color of the victim. No one likes to lose, and attorneys REALLY don't like to lose.

The fact is, there was never enough evidence to convict on either murder 2 or manslaughter. but maybe if they had waited awhile, something else could have turned up.

[GreenStormCloud]

90. Z's father was never a judge.

That is a DU myth that refuses to die.

Some years back, Virginia revised their Justice of the Peace system, and replaced the JP with the title of Magistrate, but the duties were still the same. So Z's father held the same post that would be called a Justice of the Peace in another state. JP's don't have much political pull, even in their own state, and no political pull in another state that is four states away.

[Lurks Often]

62. You are misinformed

Martin had no id on him the night of the incident. His father identified him from pictures the following morning, about 40 minutes after he reported him missing to the police.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

[Lurks Often]

66. Allegations of perjury against a world expert in forensic science

Seriously? Are you so unable to argue the facts that contradict your views that you are reduced to accusing a recognized international expert on forensic sciences, a man who WROTE the books that other ME's use, of perjury?

[Lurks Often]

65. That was explained by the CSI Tech & Dr Di Maio

I'm going to believe what both CSI tech and Dr Di Maio said, that an absence of DNA is not evidence of anything.

Regarding the absence of bruising on Martin's hands, apparently you missed that part of the trial as well. As testified to by Dr. Di Maio, because death occurred so quickly, visible bruises on the extremities had no chance to form and only would have been found, if they existed, if the ME hand dissected the hands to check for internal bruising, something I don't think is standard procedure and the ME had no reasonable expectation that it was necessary.

[John2]

23. Those other

women were spouses of lawyers but if I was on the jury, I think that I could have convinced her, that her first decision was correct. I would have done it by different interpretations of the law. The judge left out the definition for an initial aggressor. I already had some knowledge from studying the law. There was no evidence in the case Trayvon Martin ever attacked Zimmerman first or approached him first. I would have emphasized to her, Zimmerman pursued Trayvon Martin with the intent to restrain him for Law enforcement and he had a loaded gun when he left his vehicle. When he did that, Martin had every right to fear for his life that night from Zimmerman. It was Martin that initially ran from Zimmerman and it was Zimmerman's words that "Oh shit he is running." It was Zimmerman the one that immediately took out after Martin without fearing for his life. Zimmerman knew he had that gun all the time and had no reason to fear Martin. That was his entire purpose to carry a gun. He had every intention of using that as his only means to self defense. And the evidence proves it.

[ceonupe]

78. Problem is

By FL law u can't say George was aggressor if he was doing a lawful act.

Racially profiling following and questioning a black teen is sick but not aginst the law.

The judge did go over the law as it applied to this case. There were hearings that established parts of the case and the jury instructions.

The state failed to prove that zimmermans actions prior to the shooting were aginst the law. That is a major problem for your arguement

[Judi Lynn]

4. Juror B29, ‘Maddy,’ says ‘Zimmerman got away with murder’

Juror B29, ‘Maddy,’ says ‘Zimmerman got away with murder’



By Ruth Tam,

Two weeks after George Zimmerman was acquitted in the death of Florida teen Trayvon Martin, the only person on the jury who is a member of an ethnic minority said in an ABC News interview that Zimmerman “got away with murder.’

Juror B29, identified only by her first name Maddy, sat down with ABC’s Robin Roberts, to discuss the trial for “Good Morning America.” As the first juror to show her face on camera, Maddy expressed both conviction and regret.

“You can’t put the man in jail even though in our hearts we felt he was guilty,” Maddy said of Zimmerman.

A nursing assistant and mother of eight children, Maddy, 36, who is Puerto Rican, said she believed she owed Trayvon Martin’s parents an apology because she felt “like I let them down.”

She also said that the case shouldn’t have gone to trial and that it was ”a publicity stunt.” Despite this, she said the decision weighed heavily on her.

“It’s hard for me to sleep, it’s hard for me to eat because I feel I was forcefully included in Trayvon Martin’s death. And as I carry him on my back, I’m hurting as much Trayvon’s Martin’s mother because there’s no way that any mother should feel that pain,” she said.

More:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/juror-b29-maddy-says-zimmerman-got-away-with-murder/2013/07/25/a636ec2a-f55a-11e2-aa2e-4088616498b4_story.html

[uppityperson]

6. He got away with murder, yet it shouldn't have gone to trial, & hurts as much as TMs mom?

She was going to be the juror that gave them a hung jury but decided tomgive in and now hurts as much as the murdered teen's mom? Wtf? My cynical mind wonders if this is another "look at me" person or wtf she is going on about. Feeling guilty? Sorry, no credit for "I was going to give them a hung jury" unless you actually do.

[noiretextatique]

10. i wonder if she is referring to the 2nd degree charge

trying to give her the benefit of the doubt.

[John2]

24. I think those other jurors convinced

her she was wrong in their deliberations. Those other jurors probably use the advantage of being spouses to lawyers. They all had access to their spouses during the Trial. That jury was probably fixed. Wasn't one of the juror's spouse in O'Mara's district or something?

[Cha]

19. Yeah, I didn't understand that part, either. It's a contradiction.

Nobody hurts as much as Trayvon's mom and dad.

I can see why she regrets her vote on that day.. and I am glad she's coming out and saying "zimmerman got a away with murder".. because that's what we've been saying.

[ceonupe]

80. I think what she is saying

Is the state knew with the evidence they had and the laws in FL getting a conviction on anything was almost impossible .

I think She belives the jurors were left to do the unpopular thing but the legal thing. Many lawyers I know say te same thing. They say with the law the way it is and with the evidence they had and the facts of the case if should have never gone to trial.

This is not to say that what GZ was right or should not have made better choices like never following TM but the case was just not there and that hurts the most. Makes u feel kind of helpless because unless changes or clarifications are made and people change they way they view and treat each other more incidents like this will happen.

[Blue_Tires]

20. "The case shouldn't have gone to trial and was a publicity stunt?"

I hope to god those comments were taken out of context...I was prepared to feel at least a little sympathy for her, but if she really meant that then she can FOAD for all I care...

[lolly]

43. That sounds like it came directly from good old B27.

I suspect she bullied everyone into agreeing with her anti-media, pro-Georgie line, probably by telling them over and over that her husband was a lawyer so she knew all about the legal issues.

[heaven05]

22. right

Last edited Thu Jul 25, 2013, 07:01 PM - Edit history (1)

my heart bleeds for you. Oh scratch that, it was Trayvon's heart that bled. Literally. And she "feels race wasn't an issue".

[Judi Lynn]

32. Surely she doesn't expect anyone to pity her for being pressured into her vote

if it went against her conscience. It should have gone against all their consciences. It would have if they could have seen beyond their own self-interests.

It was the innocent young man which bled out, it's true. What a shame.

[Sienna86]

5. Jury nullification.

They always had that option.

[Hissyspit]

14. Yup.

[AtheistCrusader]

15. Nullification is generally hazardous in the US.

Because we fucking LOVE throwing people in jail...



Judicial opinion in the US[edit]

In the 1895 in the case of Sparf v. United States written by Justice John Marshall Harlan, the United States Supreme Court held 5 to 4 that a trial judge has no responsibility to inform the jury of the right to nullify laws. This decision, often cited, has led to a common practice by United States judges to penalize anyone who attempts to present a nullification argument to jurors and to declare a mistrial if such argument has been presented to them. In some states, jurors are likely to be struck from the panel during voir dire if they will not agree to accept as correct the rulings and instructions of the law as provided by the judge.[32]

In recent rulings, the courts have continued to prohibit informing juries about jury nullification. In a 1969, Fourth Circuit decision, U.S. v. Moylan, 417 F.2d 1002 (4th Cir.1969), the Court affirmed the concept of jury nullification, but upheld the power of a court to refuse to permit an instruction to the jury to this effect.[33] In 1972, in United States v. Dougherty, 473 F.2d 1113, the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit issued a ruling similar to Moylan that affirmed the de facto power of a jury to nullify the law but upheld the denial of the defense's chance to instruct the jury about the power to nullify.[34]

In 1988, the Sixth Circuit upheld a jury instruction: "There is no such thing as valid jury nullification." In 1997, the Second Circuit ruled that jurors can be removed if there is evidence that they intend to nullify the law, under Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure 23(b).[35] The Supreme Court has not recently confronted the issue of jury nullification. Further, as officers of the court, attorneys have sworn an oath to uphold the law, and are ethically prohibited from directly advocating for jury nullification.[36]

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

35. From Day 1!! Collusion from top to bottom!!

[JDPriestly]

8. Weak prosecutors.

They did not do a good job. They allowed the Zimmerman tape to substitute for testimony. Maybe they had not choice, but they should have clearly placed the beginning of the altercation at Zimmerman's decision to follow Trayvon.

[chelsea0011]

16. Honestly, jury asked for a clarication on manslaughter

and never followed up with that request. So, they figured it out themselves or just said "oh, just fuck it". And there certainly was plenty to convict under the law if you could find that GZ was lying about his beating. Under the law if a witness lies about one thing you are allowed to dismiss all their testimony. This juror clearly chose to believe GZ.

[mainstreetonce]

17. GZ never testified

The jury did not have to consider one word of his video story.

[chelsea0011]

26. Everything he said was admitted as evidence. It works the same as live testimony.

But that's the problem. They accepted all of it.

[Little Star]

18. Bullshit! She owed Trayvon and his family justice.

Last edited Thu Jul 25, 2013, 06:29 PM - Edit history (1)

[chelsea0011]

28. BS to what?

[Little Star]

30. Just explained myself, sorry. Look again :)

[chelsea0011]

73. I agree. I wish she was the juror who pushed harder.

I will always be bothered that when they asked the judge for a manslaughter clarification and the judge asked them to be more specific, they never got back with any more questions. That was in the later in the afternoon. By mid evening they had a decision. Any jurors with questions about manslaughter caved in those few hours.

[heaven05]

21. well

there's proof and then there's proof. Tell that shit to Trayvon Martin. geez

[yurbud]

41. everybody needs to know about jury nullification

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

[Zoeisright]

47. Yeah, she sure as fuck does.

Did not stand up for the truth.

[Kennah]

50. I call bullshit on juror B29!

If she truly believed that GZ was guilty, of either murder two or manslaughter, then she owed the Martin family justice in the form of a hung jury.

We have an awesome responsibility as a juror. It might be one the greatest burdens society can put on us. If you truly believe you are right and the other jurors are wrong, and you cannot sway them and nothing they say sways you, then hang the fucking jury.

[RebelOne]

70. Agreed. If I had been juror B29, I would have stuck to my guns and hung the jury. n/t

[Turbineguy]

52. Florida made murder legal.

[blkmusclmachine]

55. Means bupkis at this point, lady.

[Federosky]

60. This juror's comments actually made a hate crime charge more difficult

by saying that race was not a factor. USA Today reported "Maddy said the case was not about race as far as she was concerned."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/07/25/juror-says-zimmerman-got-awa/2587533/

Now the defense has ammo by saying that both Angela Corey and this juror have said the case was not about race.

Juror B29 screwed up.

[BainsBane]

61. a juror's comments aren't evidence for a subsequent case

Her comments have no bearing on a federal prosecution. They aren't evidence of anything.

She could have said Zimmy was a neo-Nazi and it wouldn't have made one bit of difference in terms of a potential federal prosecution.

[Federosky]

75. It's up to the jurors to decide whether her words make a difference or not

If the defense lawyers say, "Even the prosecutor Angela Corey and the two jurors who spoke in public say this was not about race," the jurors might have a hard time figuring out what in the world it is that prosecutors think proves that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin based on his race.

You are guessing that this juror's words wont' have an effect on jurors' minds (if Holder decides to press charges at all). But you are not a juror.

[BainsBane]

76. You were talking about a federal prosecution

You said the juror's comments made a federal prosecution less likely. You were not talking about deliberations within the Jury for the Florida trial. Those are two entirely separate things.

To have a second jury, there would need to be a federal prosecution. Believe me, DOJ is not going to operate based on what a jury in the state case says. That doesn't even begin to make sense. DOJ will operate based on the evidence concerning Zimmerman from the time of Trayvon's killing. I think it unlikely there will be federal charges, but that has NOTHING to do with what any of these jurors say.

[Federosky]

79. The juror may be called as a defense witness

The juror's view about there being no racist motive will be presented to the jury in the Federal case. The case would be all about whether Zimmerman targetted Trayvon because of his color. That's it. Nothing else. Her opinion will either have weight or not, depending on each juror's opinion.

[BainsBane]

81. a juror called as a defense witness?

You're all over the map and make no sense whatsoever.

Firstly, DOJ has lawyers. They determine if a case will be filed or not. They determine that based on what evidence they think they can sustain at trial, not what who someone online thinks might be a defense witness.

[Bo]

77. Any Attorney will tell you Fla. case was a disaster.

The blame for Zimmys Acquittal lies squarely with FLA.....

[historylovr]

82. Meaningless.

You let a murderer off, lady. Nothing you can say will wipe that stain off you.

[Blue_Tires]

85. She can jam her "apology" up her ass for all I care

[Kingofalldems]

94. Has Zimmerman apologized yet?

And what about the phony story about him saving some people (trumpeted right here in LBN)?