Orr cuts pay of Detroit cops, firefighters by 10%
Source: Detroit News
The city’s police and fire lieutenants and sergeants on Wednesday became the latest municipal employees to have their pay and benefits slashed, with Emergency Financial Manager Kevyn Orr imposing a 10 percent pay cut, along with other reductions.
Lamont Satchel, the city’s Labor Relations Director, announced the cuts in a letter sent to Lieutenants and Sergeants Association President Mark Young Wednesday.
In addition to the wage cut, union members will no longer get overtime for court appearances, while holiday pay was reduced from double-time to time-and-a-half.
... Young and other union members said Wednesday’s letter contradicts a memo Orr sent July 19 to all city employees, in which he promised not to touch city employees’ pay and benefits.
Read more: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130731/METRO01/307310098/Orr-cuts-pay-Detroit-cops-firefighters-by-10-
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DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)and watch this happen everywhere. The GOP hates cities because, for all the red blue state talk, our gap is an urban-rural gap, and they would love nothing more than to crucify urban areas as a means of getting the rural folk on their side, just ask New Orleans.
meow2u3
(24,761 posts)If the states don't like who the people elect, the reTHUGS will simply install someone the people hate, impose their will on them, and damn the will of the people. This is exactly what Michigan is doing.
atreides1
(16,070 posts)They know the writing is on the wall and that all of their glorious ideas are nothing more then shit!
MADem
(135,425 posts)If his salary comes from the city's coffers, I hope he leads by example.
msongs
(67,389 posts)
LiberalFighter
(50,856 posts)
theaocp
(4,235 posts)Sounds like a prime time to commit crimes.
24601
(3,959 posts)someone back on the street that could gun them, their partner, spouse or kids down next - I have doubts they would fail to show or if they would instead cut back on other work instead. Supervisors should be able prioritize their activities, including court appearances.
At the federal level, we have hundreds of thousands of DoD employees enduring pay cuts right now because of the furloughs. When FBI agents were going to face cuts, DOJ shifted money in order to keep them on the job.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)sakabatou
(42,146 posts)
Teamster Jeff
(1,598 posts)All the rage these days
Mr. David
(535 posts)And continued malfeasance.
Also, don't do overtime. Just go home. Don't bother to show up for court. When asked, ask them to talk to Orr.
Orr will get his ass on fire within minutes and kicked out of Michigan and considered persona non grata along with the Rethuglicans.
michreject
(4,378 posts)There is a no strike clause.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)What is the worse thing Management can do to the Police if they go on strike? Fire them? Given people have the right to quit at any time (and be fired at any time) unless a contract clearly says otherwise what is the harm? Even if the Contract says someone can NOT quit, the worse punishment under contract law is that he or she can not work as a police officer during the duration of the contract.
Now, in the past, it was CRIMINAL to go on strike for certain people (The Postal Workers were one), but in 1970 the Postal workers went on strike. Nixon, who was President, wanted to fire them, but then it was pointed out no one else knew how to do their jobs and it would take months to re-train new workers. Thus Nixon gave into the demands of the Letter Carriers and subsequently congress removed the no strike law (basically on the grounds it was ineffective given the shear number of letter carriers and they pay).
Similarly the Police of Boston went on strike in 1919. NOW, at that time period the Boston Police were under the Authority of a Commissioner, appointed by the GOVERNOR not the mayor. On the other hand the Mayor and City Council was to pay their salaries. This lead to a terrible situation, no pay raise during a period of inflation AND due to a shortage of Police officers, extensive hours. Over these grounds the Police decided to form a union. The Commissioner called the Union illegal and fired the elected Union officials from the Police force. It was the refusal to accept the union, not the actual wage or working conditions that forced the strike.
Now, the strikers were never re-hired, but their replacements, mostly unemployed WWI veterans, received what the Strikers had wanted for over 20 years, increase pay, less hours (previously they were know to work 72-98 hours per WEEK, hours were reduced to around 50 per week) and uniforms and weapons were supplied (previously the officers had to pay for their own uniforms and weapons).
In effect what the strikers wanted when they formed the union was achieved but at the cost of their jobs (yes much like what happened to PATCO in 1980). Much like the President of PATCO said about that strike, most of the strikers said the strike was worth it, it improved working conditions AND even increased pay, but most fired strikers (Both the Boston Police and the PATCO Air Traffic Controllers) ended up with a job they were happy with, that had less stress, gave him more time to spend with his family and almost the same level of pay. Yes, both sets of Strikers never worked in that field again and in both cases you have reports that the loss of experience was harmful (and that loss of experience was covered up for it would justify the need to rehired the fired workers, something management in both cases did not want to do) but in the long run the strikes were successful, it improved working conditions for the people who replaced the strikers.
The Police of Detroit have to make a decision like PATCO, the Boston Police force in 1919 and what the New York City Branch of Letter carriers (supported by carriers elsewhere, such as in Pittsburgh) did in 1970, to go on an illegal strike. That is the only way they can successfully protest this pay cut. Force Manager to do something, either fire the Police officers and bring in outside officers to do the police work (at the pay he is proposing for the Detroit Police Officers) or undo the pay cuts. His first choice will be to hire replacements, but Detroit in 2013 is NOT Boston in 1919, we do not have a huge number of unemployed veterans, nor is it acceptable to just hire them and put them on the street, they have to go through some sort of training now a days (We have unemployed veterans, but most people who have served in the US military today tend to be from rural America, urban intercity African Americans enlistments are way down from what they were pre-911 and most such African American Veterans, if they are NOT on the present Detroit Police, think along the same lines as the people in the Detroit Police).
Thus the Emergency Manager has to bring in police from outside Detroit. If he does that, how can he pay them since he can not pay the Detroit Police? I can see him doing it for he so desperately wants to break the city unions, but will the State Police like taking a pay cut? (State Police Officers are paid by the traffic tickets they write, while technically not a bounty system in most states Police Officers are paid over time for the time they spend in court in regards to these tickets. Given most tickers are uncontested, that tends to be 1 1/2 hour overtime per ticket written, and given Detroit will be a area where they will be tied up doing other police work. i.e. gathering evidence in murder, robbery and drug cases. no time to write tickets).
Thus the situation with the Detroit Police is much more like the Letter Carriers during the Postal Strike of 1970. Yes the letter carriers could be fired, but who would delivery the mail? The National Guard was called out to do so and failed. Replacement workers would take months to retrain. It was proposed to bring in non-striking carriers from outside New York City, but the question then came up where to house them? It quickly become clear the best plan was to address the reason the Carriers were on an illegal strike as opposed to arresting them for doing an illegal strike.
Now, in many ways PATCO Strike of 1981 was seen by the business community as a way to stop labor, after the success of the Postal Strike of 1970. Airlines were under stress do to then recent deregulation AND most Air Fields not only had civilian air traffic controllers, they had military Air Traffic Controllers who could do the same jobs (and the Military had reservists who were Air Traffic Controllers). In affect with an acceptance of reduced air traffic (needed anyway to address the problems caused by the Deregulation of the Airline industry) and the low cost of using Military Air Traffic Controllers (Which could be housed on near by Air Force Bases in most cases, and in the few cases where that could not be done, the cost of a motel for these relatively few people was relatively cheap where compared to the need to house 100s of potential Letter Carriers in 1970).
I am sorry, the Detroit Police Department is much like the Letter Carriers of 1970, not the Boston Police of 1919 or the Air Traffic Controllers of 1981, it that they are few potential ready replacements for them. The cost to get replacements is high, you need TRAINED police officers who are willing to work for the reduced pay of the Detroit Police and in Detroit. Even if these replacements are permitted to live outside Detroit, the commute will be a cost such replacements will have to accept to accept the role as a replacement. I can see some people doing it, but not many.
Thus my comment, go on Strike, what can you lose but your jobs AND in my opinion that is next.
benld74
(9,904 posts)
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,336 posts)Lugal Zaggesi
(366 posts)(population) since 1950.
I predicted Detroit was gonna crash when GM bought Hummer at the end of last century (1998), and Toyota came out with the Prius (2000 in the US). Totally oblivious to Peak Oil, and taking engineering refuge in the protected markets of trucks and SUV's...
The automobile-driven economic growth of the 1950s and 1960s made Detroit a globally recognized symbol of successful capitalist renewal after the great depression and the war (1929-1945). High-wage auto industry jobs with real security and exemplary benefits were said to prove capitalism's ability to generate and sustain a large "middle class", one that could include African Americans, too. Auto-industry jobs became inspirations and models for what workers across America might seek and acquire – those middle-class components of a modern "American Dream".
True, quality jobs in Detroit were forced from the automobile capitalists by long and hard union struggles, especially across the 1930s. Once defeated in those struggles, auto capitalists quickly arranged to rewrite the history so that good wages and working conditions became something they "gave" to their workers. In any case, Detroit became a vibrant, world-class city in the 1950s and 1960s; its distinctive culture and sound shaped the world's music much as its cars shaped the world's industries.
Over the past 40 years, capitalism turned that success into the abject failure culminating now in the largest municipal bankruptcy in US history.
The key decision-makers – major shareholders in General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, etc, and the boards of directors they selected – made many disastrous decisions. They failed in competition with European and Japanese automobile capitalists and so lost market share to them. They responded too slowly and inadequately to the need to develop new fuel-saving technologies. And, perhaps most tellingly, they responded to their own failures by deciding to move production out of Detroit so they could pay other workers lower wages.
The automobile companies' competitive failures, and then their moves, had two key economic consequences. First, they effectively undermined the economic foundation of Detroit's economy. Second, they thereby dealt a major blow to any chances for an enduring US middle class. The past 40 years have displayed those consequences and the capitalist system's inability or unwillingness to stop, let alone reverse, them.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/23/detroit-decline-distinctively-capitalist-failure
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)
navarth
(5,927 posts)You're talking about a symptom, not a cause.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)navarth
(5,927 posts)It would be nice to be able to blame it on Nixon!! But no. What I'm saying, Spitfire, is that you're pointing to a symptom, not a cause. Not a huge point.
Bad decisions didn't get made because the car had bad design. I'm saying it's vice-versa.
Thanks.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Detroit was claiming 16 MPG was all they could do while Japan offered 35.
If they had spend even HALF of what they spent lobbying to keep mileage standards down on R&D they would have been able to compete.
navarth
(5,927 posts)Lugal Zaggesi
(366 posts)How come their big auto cities aren't going bankrupt ?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)We were putting out the Vega and the Pinto and they were selling these:
Lugal Zaggesi
(366 posts)the Honda Z600:
and the Nissan B210 Honeybee:
What self-respecting American would buy those ?
No offense, if you or your spouse had one, of course...
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)
At the time a friend had one of these:
Lugal Zaggesi
(366 posts)into the Military/Industrial complex has certainly done American auto manufacturing no favors.
The recent Chevy Volt had lots of German engineers working on it...
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)The DOW used to track "industrial averages" but listen to assholes like Jim Cramer. "Why the hell are we making cars in this country?" They honestly believe that as a nation we should just shuffle paper fortunes around. Forget producing actual products. They took the dot com thing of a lack of brick and mortar store to a lack of ANYTHING except conning people into debts they can't pay and selling that debt like it's cash in the bank.
Our youth used to want to be scientists. They dreamed of going to the stars.
Now all they want to make is money.
Lugal Zaggesi
(366 posts)George W. Romney was Chairman and President of American Motors Company, and wanted to be President of the United States.
His son Willard M. Romney was a Vulture Capitalist, and wanted to be President of the United States.
Although I don't think the types of people that wind up on Wall St. would all have made good scientists or engineers - just a fraction of them.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)It'll be, "Mitt who? We're the Party of Reagan!"
Then point to this guy:
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Detroit, as that terms in used automotively, is healthy. All three of the big three are doing well, Downtown Detroit, where they all have headquarters is doing well. When anything new automotively comes out, it hits the Detroit News (Paper, radio, TV, internet) first and heaviest (Just like anything with the entertainment industry his Los Angles, anything to do with metals or ores hits Pittsburgh and anything to do with finance hits New York City, first and heaviest).
Detroit in that sense, not only includes the City of Detroit but its Sububs and metro Detroit is doing quite well.
As to the CITY of Detroit, being an automotive headquarters it embraced the automotive lifestyle more then any other city in the US (with the possible exception of LA). That included a massive movement to the Suburbs and the subsequent loss of population in the City itself.
Detroit was also a late blooming Northern City, bring well behind Pittsburgh and Chicago during the mass migration of the late 1800s and early 1900s. When Detroit actually boomed was with the Automobile and that was the 1920s when migration was limited (and immigration had been restricted from 1912-1919 due to WWI and the various little wars that lead up to WWI). Thus Detroit ended up having to recruit from the south for its workers instead of Eastern Europe. What this meant is two types of people moved to Michigan starting about 1912 and continued to after WWII, southern whites and blacks. Both groups brought with them their prejudices from the South and this lead to a desire for such southern whites to move to the Suburbs and get a car at much higher rates then you see elsewhere in the US among Urban whites of the period 1912-1950. From this higher base, you saw a massive outflow of such whites starting in the 1950s and continuing till the 1990s (When most whites had left the City of Detroit).
Worse Detroit Government, under control of many of these same people (Whites, then Blacks), encouraged auto ownership even as it became clear it was leading to the death of Detroit.
Various Busing proposals in the 1970s did not help the situation, leading to even a more rigid divide between Detroit and its Suburbs. The divide is not only Race and Class, but actual physical barriers between the two (for example, the Suburbs run a different Mass transit system then the City of Detroit and in may places these do not even meet).
It is this divide that is the problem for Detroit. Windsor, across the Detroit River from Detroit, did not have the massive movement of Southern Whites and Blacks and thus have a much more integrated and less isolated city. Due to restrictions across the Detroit River, Windsor and Detroit are isolated from each other by physical barriers, but in many ways are more integrated then Detroit is with its American Suburbs.
Thus the problem with Detroit is NOT the Automotive Industry (which is healthy) but its isolation from its suburbs. Furthermore I see no proposal to integrate the suburbs with Detroit (i.e. for example a Light Rail Vehicle from the Suburbs to Downtown Detroit, I see a LRV for Detroit itself but not its suburbs).
Thus the problem with Detroit is the refusal of Michigan to recognize Detroit as the center of Southeastern Michigan, The State of Michigan wants to treat Detroit separate from the rest of South Eastern Michigan and that is impossible. Until Michigan accepts the fact Detroit has to be fixed to fix Michigan Detroit will continue to die.
Just a comment that Detroit, as meaning Motor City is healthy, for the City of Detroit's suburbs are healthy. The problem is the city itself and it has been a problem since the 1950s when people moved to the suburbs. The various efforts to revile Detroit since the 1960s have been concentrated on Downtown, its industries not its neighborhoods. With the embrace of the Automobile such a policy accelerated the decline of Detroit, for it encouraged even more people to move out. The tendency to recruit from the Deep South made the racial divide one of the worse in the country and lead to a tendency to isolate the suburbs from the City itself. All of these problems lead to Detroit of today. No one is addressing any of these problems and thus Detroit will continue to decline. The best long term solution would be in integrated regional mass transit system. It would eliminate much of the isolation of Detroit from its Suburbs and relieve much of the problem of Detroit, but no one is proposing such an integration, differently not the emergency manager. Detroit will continue to decline till Michigan accept that fact it is the true center of South Eastern Michigan and to leave it die is to kill off South Eastern Michigan. Till that is accepted, the City of Detroit will continue to decline, while the Motor City of Detroit will continued not only to survive but boom.
Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)dirty work for them.
Strike! Solidarity!
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)when it comes to executive bonuses.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)Some fucked up shit right there.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts) 
Blue Owl
(50,340 posts)n/t