Chuck Schumer Is Furious At Vladimir Putin For 'Stabbing Us In The Back' Over 'Coward' Snowden

[Purveyor]

Source: Business Insider

Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) accused Russia on Thursday of "stabbing us in the back" by granting one-year asylum to National Security Agency leak source Edward Snowden, and he urged President Barack Obama to recommend moving the G-20 summit scheduled to take place in Russia this September.
"Russia has stabbed us in the back, and each day that Mr. Snowden is allowed to roam free is another twist of the knife," Schumer said in a scathing statement.

He went on to call Snowden a "coward."

"Others who have practiced civil disobedience in the past have stood up and faced the charges because they strongly believed in what they were doing," Schumer said. "Mr. Snowden is a coward who has chosen to run. Given Russia's decision today, the President should recommend moving the G-20 summit."

Schumer's sentiment was perhaps the strongest reaction to the news from Thursday morning. The White House said it was "extremely disappointed" in Russia. Press Secretary Jay Carney suggested that the White House might cancel a trip to Moscow for a different summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin, but did not specify any change in plans to attend the G-20 summit.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/chuck-schumer-edward-snowden-asylum-vladimir-putin-2013-8

[bemildred]

1. Must be worried. nt

[wordpix]

26. my thoughts exactly - i.e. Schumer is worried, not Putin

Is that what you meant?

[bemildred]

37. Indeed. Aggression is a mark of insecurity.

Who looks amused and who looks angry?

[askeptic]

38. At the very least we can see he is not part of the solution

...and is obviously part of the problem.

[bemildred]

39. Hoist on ones own petard, as the saying goes. nt

[LibDemAlways]

2. Putin is, no doubt, shaking in his boots. n/t

[BeyondGeography]

3. What's not to love about the whacked-out dictatorial homophobe Putin?

[frylock]

4. fuck off, chuck..

it's laughable that these congressional poltroons would call anyone a coward.

[Enrique]

5. Schumer is trying to be our Lindsey Graham

don't bother, Chuck, we don't need one.

[elleng]

19. Really.

Sounds like he got up on the wrong side of the bed.

[Jack Rabbit]

30. I thought that was Feinstein

I'm a Californian, so let me worry about her. We won't get the opportunity to primary her ass until 2018, but hopefully she'll retire at the age of 85 and spare us that.

[BlueManFan]

6. Agreed. Fuck Chuck

When we have to promise not to torture one of our own citizens every Russian lets loose a nose spray of Vodka. We have been lecturing the world for a century and now we have the credibility of a used mattress salesman. How far the mighty have fallen.!!!!

[fujiyama]

7. Where's the whaaambulance...

Putin's a thug and all, but the administration's reaction to Snowden is just pathetic.

Snowden revealed how little credibility we have on the world's stage. Of course between torture and the expanded use of drones anywhere and all the time, our credibility was already pretty much shot.

[adirondacker]

8. These statements should help rebuild relations with our allies abroad. nt

[hlthe2b]

9. When will these publicity hound politicos learn the meaning of "cowardice"

Regardless of how one feels about Snowden and what he did, he gave up pretty much everything in doing what he did. I really don't quite see how that fits the accepted meaning of "cowardice"...

Ok... I will even go further... This term was used by the Bushies* with respect to the 911 suicide bombers... Beyond horrendous, beyond monstrous, beyond abhorrent, beyond just about every horrific adjective one can think of... but "cowardly"? Like Bill Maher, I never saw how that term quite fit.

I'm not comparing the two in any way, EXCEPT to say the use of the word "cowardice" is sorely misplaced in recent years by those who want to exploit public emotion....

[Jack Rabbit]

31. Most of those politicos just need to look in the mirror to understand the concept

Unfortunately, each fears what he will see, so none look.

[PorridgeGun]

10. Nice to know who the D authoritarians are

I remember from my time in California that Feinstein seemed to have a nasty case of it as well.

[djean111]

11. Why is everyone sneering about Snowden being in Russia?

Not like he wants to be there - he is just blocked from going elsewhere.
His choices right now seem to be staying in Russia or trusting the United States judicial system.
Silly, IMO, to keep pointing out the very many ways Russia is not a good place for him - he has nowhere else that he can go right now.

[cascadiance]

12. Schumer's already been fucking us with always supporting H-1B Visa growth. Not surprising to me!

This corporatist is not helping IT folk like me who are out of work now! Not surprising that he's fucking us here too. New Yorkers, do us a favor and primary this bum out of office! You have to have some better candidates on deck!

[Spider Jerusalem]

13. Wow, melodramatic much?

If a Russian dissident left for the US with hard drives full of information on Russian surveillance and espionage directed against their own citizens and those of dozens of other countries, and requested asylum in the USA...what would the government of the United States do? And why should Russia be expected to do otherwise than the USA would?

[treestar]

21. Actually, we have given asylum to Russians

Snowden does not qualify for asylum. He is not being persecuted for race or political opinion. He is being prosecuted for crimes under a legal system.

[Spider Jerusalem]

22. He has been indicted, he is not being prosecuted

unless they're doing it in absentia.

And he is being indicted for espionage. Which is a political crime and treated as such under international law. Extradition treaties have a routine stipulation that there will be no extradition for political crimes. The USA has no extradition treaty with Russia, so that's somewhat irrelevant anyway; the USA routinely denies extradition requests from Russia for persons accused of much more serious crimes than Snowden's.

[treestar]

23. Espionage is not a political crime in the asylum sense

Persecution for political opinion happens where you are jailed for running against someone, for campaigning against something for saying or publishing something "disrespectful of the head of state" or where editors of newspapers are put in jail for printing articles opposing what the dictator wants, etc.

Countries are not obliged to tolerate espionage against them in their territory.

No one is persecuted politically in the US. Rush Limbaugh could be in jail otherwise. Boehner could be under house arrest.

[Spider Jerusalem]

24. Yes, it is.

You're clearly very ignorant of international law relating to extradition and asylum.

http://scholarship.law.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2184&context=mulr

http://www.refugee.org.nz/Reference/ChapterTwo.htm

Espionage, along with treason and sedition, are regarded as pure political crimes in international law, because their target is the state. This is what is meant by "political".

[treestar]

41. since you read that 49 page article, care to state on what page

you obtain the material from which you draw your conclusions?

The political nature of an offense is most evident when the target is the state.(160) Crimes such as treason, espionage, and conspiracy are referred to as 'absolute' political offenses because they are directed solely against the state and do not harm private interests.(161)

this is a distinction being made for purpose of discussion. The term "absolute" is later compared with "relative" and does not mean there is some absolute right not to be extradited.

[73] The ostensible distinction between absolute and so-called 'passive offenses' may be illustrated by reference to the Kolczynski case.(163) Kolczynski and seven other Polish nationals were crew members of a small fishing trawler. Fearing that upon return to Poland, they would be prosecuted on account of political opinions they had expressed while at sea, Kolczynski and his associates staged a revolt, took charge of the trawler and brought it into an English port where they claimed asylum. There was clear evidence that if extradited to Poland they could be punished for treason, specifically, "going over to the enemy".(164) Extradition was refused on the grounds that their offenses were of a political character.(165) Both judgments stressed the totalitarian nature of Poland's communist regime.(166) Essentially, while Kolczynski's motive for the offenses he committed related to his 'passive' dissidence (the expression of his political opinions), the basis of his claim was that if returned he would be punished for treason, an absolute political offense in the classic sense.(167)

It is easy to see that during the Cold War Era, western countries considered communist countries not to have systems for fair trial. It was rational, to us, for someone from a communist country to seek asylum in a Western Country. But it is ridiculous for anyone from the USA to seek asylum in any country. No other country can claim that we would not try anyone accused of espionage as the law provides. I know the HOF brigade likes to claim that, but they are delusional.

Another consideration:

2.4 Fair Trial and Punishment

[84] Supposedly, the political offense exception is premised, in part, on the notion that a political offender will not receive a fair trial and even-handed punishment if returned to the requesting state.(199) Therefore, it is surprising to find only limited reference to the consequences of return in extradition treaties, legislation and case law.(200) Van den Wijngaert observes that the offender's treatment upon return is but a supplementary consideration in many jurisdictions 201)

"It is true, from a logical point of view, that ... [the treatment awaiting a person in the requesting state] should not affect the nature - common or political - of the offense but, as one of the basic raisons d'etre of the political offense exception, it would be better if courts could take it into account. English courts have focused on this element since the Kolczynski and Schtraks decisions and the definition of the term political offense has been supplemented by the idea that attention has to paid to the question of whether the ... [person] risks an unfair trial because he is possibly 'at odds' with the state or with the regime seeking his extradition."

[85] Basing decisions not to extradite on the assertion that the fugitive will not receive a fair trial in the requesting state has proven problematic, perhaps, in part, because it represents a more explicit condemnation of the requesting state than the notion of a political offense alone. Gilbert also notes that 202)

"...within western industrialised society it is hard to conceive of one state refusing extradition to a friendly neighbouring state, partly because of the 'club' mentality of Western Europe, North America and Australia. Indeed, a further problem arises from the fair trial test, in that it antagonises those states outside the 'club' who feel as though their legal systems are being judged by the western industrialised nations, so preventing essential international co-operation."

Whatever you want to say about the U.S., the courts are functioning, and the law develops every day. There is no sane person who would claim that the trial of Snowden would not be held in the courts using their rules and the law of the U.S.A. Yet the same cannot be said of the system in say Saudi Arabia or Cameroon or Peru in the Shining Path era.

[Spider Jerusalem]

42. The principle of asylum for political crimes predates the Cold War.

The reason such crimes as espionage, treason, and sedition are considered "pure political crimes" in international law is that their only target is the State...or, rather, the sovereign. What you happen to think of the existence of such an exception is irrelevant. And again, the USA has no extradition treaty and has refused extradition to Russia of accused Chechen terrorists; why should Russia then extradite Snowden?

[treestar]

48. We don't have a treaty with them

But I'd love to see a written decision on why they granted temporary asylum.

The reverse person could not get it here unless they could argue Russia's system of trials is not fair and does not comply with international law.

Asylum is not for fleeing criminal charges.

Pootie wants to politicize it, so he lets Snowden slide. If they followed precedent in Russia, they could expect a huge number of people who don't want to be tried to crimes they are accused of to show up at his doorstep.

[Spider Jerusalem]

49. Espionage is inherently a political crime.

Any crime whose target is the State is by definition political.

And they weren't going to extradite; there's no reason why they should, in the absence of a treaty, and given the USA's refusal to extradite Chechen terrorists wanted by Russia.

There's a significant question of whether the USA's legal system in this instance can be said to comply with international law. The USA routinely and regularly uses solitary confinement of prisoners (which is regarded as torture by the UN); routinely executes prisoners (which even Russia doesn't do), and has a recent history of persons being held prisoner without trial under degrading conditions.

You can argue all you want that Russia is worse and therefore it's perfectly reasonable to refuse to extradite persons wanted in Russia; however, it seems...very optimistic to think that Russia should be under any obligation to extradite a person sought by the US legal system in return.

And in any case even IF the USA had an extradition treaty with Russia, and extradition happened routinely, Russia would be under no obligation to extradite Snowden, because he is charged with espionage, which is a political offence and specifically excluded from extradition treaties. (I am not sure why you have such a hard time understanding this.)

[MADem]

59. Valid question....

You may wait a while for a response that answers your specific question, I fear.

Good post.

[muriel_volestrangler]

14. because Sen. Schumer loves civil disobedience so much ...

VIDEO: June 10 Civil Disobedience for the DREAM Act at Schumer’s LI Office

On June 10, three members of the New York State Youth Leadership Council staged a sit-in at Senator Chuck Schumer’s Long Island office as part of a wider effort to challenge Schumer to introduce the DREAM Act in the Senate.

The DREAM Act would create a pathway to citizenship for undocumented students who meet certain criteria, and in recent weeks, some activists have been pushing for Schumer to introduce the bill apart from comprehensive immigration reform. For background on the legislation, click here.

The Long Island protest came at the culmination of a 10-day hunger strike in front of Schumer’s Manhattan office, where students staged a similar sit-in.

Here’s video from the LI sit-in, where the protesters were eventually cuffed and taken away by police:

http://www.longislandwins.com/news/detail/video_june_10_civil_disobedience_for_the_dream_act_at_schumers_li_office

[snot]

15. Sickening.

The most optimistic interpretation I can think of is that he's totally lost touch with reality.

[JoeyT]

16. Schumer's armed bodyguard

that accompanies him everywhere to make sure he's safe agrees that Snowden is a coward.

The word "coward" has become laughably overused.

[hrmjustin]

17. I like Schumer but he needs to talk to Wall Street like this more often.

[wordpix]

27. I agree about the Wall St. part, but I used to like Schumer - nowadays, not so much

I think he's been bought off.

[hrmjustin]

28. He has nothing to worry about because no one could beat him.

I wish he would be more to the left than he is.

[neverforget]

40. can't talk to the bosses like that.

Seriously, it would be nice to see some of that directed at Wall Street.

[pam4water]

18. Schumer looked like:

Good for Snowden. I Hope he makes it to South American.

[Octafish]

20. Would that be the Chuck Schumer who helped bail out Wall Street without strings attached?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4649871

That Chuck Schumer?

Hunh. I can remember when he was a mere Representative, he would actually act like he was for the little guy. On occasion.

[wordpix]

44. "repeatedly took other steps to protect [banking] industry players from government oversight"

Yes, he is bought off by that industry.

[Octafish]

45. A fine, fine public servant...for the 1-percent of 1-percent of 1-percent.

S&P 500 hits record as bulls take charge

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5c10aac8-fa50-11e2-98e0-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2apGg31Wr

It's a miracle I don't have a stroke when I think of the families I know who lost their homes to foam the runway for the banksters.

[lofty1]

25. Me thinks Chuck dost protest too much.

Who's he trying to impress with all this bleating? Does he get paid by how many times he gets some press?

Duly noted whose side you are on Chuck. You can sit down now.

[1KansasDem]

29. I'll bet Putin is having trouble sleeping tonight

knowing that Schumer's furious with him.

[Purveyor]

33. Without a doubt, Vlad is having 'sweet dreams'...indeed. eom

[tridim]

51. So Neo-DU respects KGB Putin more than an elected Democrat. Got it. nt

[oberliner]

56. Amazing, isn't it?

Hopefully it's just a small but vocal segment of the population here.

[marions ghost]

32. Schumer's on my Adios list

Respected once, now just...Go Away.

This is my line in the sand. They defend the NSA and call Snowden a criminal, then bye bye. Like forever. Just too much in bed with the MIC. We need people in government who really understand the issues here. Two thirds of Congress is either clueless or protecting something they shouldn't.

[Purveyor]

34. Some hard choices are going to have to been presented and decided come 2014. eom

[marions ghost]

35. Agree

--there is opportunity here for a new type of Democrat. Incumbents may be vulnerable on this issue and others. If a candidate cannot demonstrate that s/he is on the side of the people's right to know vs the NSA, then it's a red flag that
they are not really what we want in government.

My rep, for example, is one of these centrist Dems who is so far siding with the govt party line. No way will I vote for him again.

[The Second Stone]

36. Schumer sounds like he is insane. Sure Snowden broke US laws

but since when have the US and Russia been buddy-buddy enough to act betrayed? At the moment the US and Russia are not bitter enemies and that is about the best relations have been in my lifetime and longer. This pretending that Russia is an ally just flies in the face of reality like a month of watching Fox News. Had Snowden received refuse in the UK or Israel, then yeah, I could see this the use of the word betrayal as accurate. For fuck's sake Schumer, stop torturing the language like it's George Orwell's 1984. It makes Schumer look like a typical Beltway lap dog.

[Blasphemer]

54. My thoughts exactly. Putin cannot betray the U.S. The countries are not allies.... nt

[kelliekat44]

43. I agree with Schumer.

That is all.

[tavernier]

46. I have friends and relatives

who live in the "former USSR" and have had the "pleasure" of being under Putin for quite some time. They say that he would make Stalin look like a Boy Scout, given the opportunity.
I, for one, am happy that some of our leadership don't want to continue to rub his belly. But, of course, I'm prepared for the buck shot.

[dmosh42]

47. A big "fuck you" to suck-up Chuck!

[warrprayer]

50. go lay down, Chuck. n/t

[Deep13]

52. Control freak. nt

[olddots]

53. Now I see where the term 2 Buck Chuck comes from

another sold out Politian playing macho man .

[24601]

55. Well, Senator, words are cheap. and I doubt you have rattled Putin. Say it with legislation

if you really mean it. My own view is that he has been and remains a thug, and unfortunately, a fairly effective one. But unlike Senator Schumer, I cannot introduce bills or vote on the Senate (or House) floor.

[MADem]

57. The Russians seem to want him GONE....!!!! "Welcome, there's the door!"

Mr. Ushakov previously said that Mr. Snowden’s case was not important enough to derail Russia’s overall relationship with the United States, and the inclusion of other topics suggested that the administration was trying to gauge whether cooperation was still possible in advance of planned meetings between Mr. Obama and Mr. Putin in September.

On Thursday, after Mr. Snowden walked out of an airport transit zone where he had remained for five weeks after arriving in Moscow from Hong Kong on June 23, the White House protested and questioned the utility of the planned summit between the two leaders in Moscow. The White House stopped short of announcing that Mr. Obama would cancel it.

A senior Russian lawmaker, Igor N. Morozov, said on Friday that he could not rule out the possibility that Mr. Snowden might in fact leave Russian territory before the end of the month, resolving at least in part the latest irritant in relations.

“This temporary decision leaves the Russian side a certain space for maneuvering, including the possibility to organize the movement of Snowden to another country,” Mr. Morozov, the chairman of the foreign affairs committee of the upper house of Parliament, told the Interfax news agency. “The Russian side is interested in Snowden leaving our territory, and this whole story is not a reason for worsening relations with the United States.”

By Friday evening, the Kremlin made no official statement about Mr. Snowden’s fate, though Mr. Putin had ample opportunity to make remarks as he fielded questions from supporters attending an annual youth camp at Seliger Lake northwest of Moscow. None of the questioners in what is typically a scripted encounter with the public broached the controversy, nor did Mr. Putin raise it.

Mr. Snowden’s whereabouts also remained a mystery. The Russian lawyer who handled Mr. Snowden’s appeal for temporary asylum, Anatoly G. Kucherena, said that Mr. Snowden had found a place to live but declined to say where, or even to specify whether it was in Moscow. He said Mr. Snowden continued mull his next steps, understanding that his situation remained far from settled legally.....Mr. Kucherena added that Mr. Snowden had agreed informally to the condition that Mr. Putin set for staying in Russia, though he had made no written statement to that effect. “If he wants to stay here,” Mr. Putin said in July, “there is one condition: he must stop his work aimed at inflicting damage on our American partners, strange as it sounds from my lips.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/03/world/europe/us-and-russia-snowden.html?_r=0

[markiv]

58. this just in 'Schumer still sucks' nt

[olddad56]

60. I think Snowden is a hero and Schumer is the coward