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Omaha Steve

(99,493 posts)
Thu Aug 1, 2013, 07:53 PM Aug 2013

Hy-Vee, Fareway stores in Nebraska, Iowa fined for violating child labor laws

Source: Omaha World Herald

By Janice Podsada

Hy-Vee stores in Nebraska and Iowa, Fareway Stores in Iowa, and other grocery stores in the two states have been fined a total of more than $128,500 for violating child labor laws.

The penalties are the result of a multiyear investigation by the U.S Department of Labor that found "significant child labor violations" at 28 grocery stores, including eight Hy-Vee stores — two in Nebraska and six in Iowa — and seven Fareway stores in Iowa.

Investigators found that employees younger than 18 were engaged in hazardous occupations at the offending stores.

"There are 17 hazardous occupations that workers under the age of 18 are not allowed to be doing at all," said Scott Allen, a Labor Department spokesman. "These are occupations that could seriously injure or kill someone."

FULL story and list of violations at link.


Read more: http://www.omaha.com/article/20130801/MONEY/130809852/1685#hy-vee-fareway-stores-in-nebraska-iowa-fined-for-violating-child-labor-laws



Violations Codes
1: HO 12 Operating baler/compactor
2: HO 12 loading baler/compactor
3: HO 10 operating meat slicer
4: HO 10 cleaning meat slicer
5: Reg 3 Hours/Times
6: HO 2 driving
7: Reg 3 Occupation - cooking/baking
8: HO 11 bakery machines - cleaning
9: Reg 3 occupation - cooler/freezer

Stay with Omaha.com for updates to this developing story.

27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Hy-Vee, Fareway stores in Nebraska, Iowa fined for violating child labor laws (Original Post) Omaha Steve Aug 2013 OP
Not a word about this is our local news yet!! Peacetrain Aug 2013 #1
That's a shame - Hy-Vee seemed like a great company when I lived in IA sweetloukillbot Aug 2013 #2
When I was in high school (about a billion years ago) Hy-Vee was the best place to work all american girl Aug 2013 #5
Sadly I've known kids who were in that position. Live in Omaha One I know real well was a foster matthews Aug 2013 #3
Thanks for Posting. Sherman A1 Aug 2013 #4
I wonder how much younger than 18 they are NV Whino Aug 2013 #6
Becasue that is the law, a line has to be drawn some place and that was age 18 happyslug Aug 2013 #10
I'm not advocating that 9 or 12-year-olds run this machinery. NV Whino Aug 2013 #12
To have so many violations, this implies a wide spread ignoring of the law happyslug Aug 2013 #14
The fine is a slap on the wrist. Posteritatis Aug 2013 #22
Used to be a pot washer at a school cafeteria and I can tell you that... B Stieg Aug 2013 #7
If you read the article, it states the kids weren't running the balers NV Whino Aug 2013 #13
So you're arguing that it's okay to have kids operate slicers because they're dangerous? B Stieg Aug 2013 #18
No. NV Whino Aug 2013 #19
I'm three chapters from a phd. in Rhetoric. B Stieg Aug 2013 #21
I lost my last 2 fingers on my right hand to a slicer. fasttense Aug 2013 #8
I worked at a grocery store beginning at age 16. We did some of those sinkingfeeling Aug 2013 #9
I have a brother who works for Toys-R-Us and tries NOT to hire teenagers do to these restrictions happyslug Aug 2013 #11
I worked at a grocery for years. gvstn Aug 2013 #15
See, this would not happen if they had a Labor union. Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel Aug 2013 #16
'where there's a little child, in every aisle' LOL nt markiv Aug 2013 #17
Rules and regulations? We don't need them! sakabatou Aug 2013 #20
Child labor laws place an undue burden on small businesses... KinMd Aug 2013 #23
Almost all these violations were for minors throwing boxes away jmowreader Aug 2013 #24
Unloading trucks is definitely not a completely safe job Fumesucker Aug 2013 #25
With palletized freight that's not as big a danger as it used to be jmowreader Aug 2013 #27
Letting someone under 18 around a meat slicer exboyfil Aug 2013 #26

sweetloukillbot

(10,971 posts)
2. That's a shame - Hy-Vee seemed like a great company when I lived in IA
Thu Aug 1, 2013, 08:04 PM
Aug 2013

And I thought they treated their employees pretty well.

all american girl

(1,788 posts)
5. When I was in high school (about a billion years ago) Hy-Vee was the best place to work
Thu Aug 1, 2013, 09:28 PM
Aug 2013

They had the best pay and the best working hours....I worked at Wendy's-sucky pay and sucky hours

 

matthews

(497 posts)
3. Sadly I've known kids who were in that position. Live in Omaha One I know real well was a foster
Thu Aug 1, 2013, 08:06 PM
Aug 2013

child of mine for a while. The kids do this because they REALLY need the money.

And the store does this because those kids REALLY need the money and will go along with it for a check.

NV Whino

(20,886 posts)
6. I wonder how much younger than 18 they are
Thu Aug 1, 2013, 09:41 PM
Aug 2013

So, how much younger were they? Six months? Five years? How is it the magic number 18 makes it okay for kids to perform these same tasks?

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
10. Becasue that is the law, a line has to be drawn some place and that was age 18
Fri Aug 2, 2013, 09:48 AM
Aug 2013

Do you want nine year old running heavy machinery? What about 12 year olds? How about 50 years olds?

My point is we do NOT want young people to operate heavy dangerous machinery due to the fact they are NOT fully grown and thus have complete knowledge what they can do and not do with their bodies (i.e. remember you "awkward teen years" right after your growth spurt? You were almost as tall as you will be as a full adult, but still learning how to use the new heights and weight.

Most teens have their growth spurt before they turn 18 (every so often someone does not, and you see a large growth between 18 and 21, a midshipmen at the Naval Academy did that several years ago, was within height limits of the US navy when he entered the Naval Academy, but by the time he graduated he was to tall for any subs or ships, the Navy ended up discharging him after transferring him to the army Reserves who is less picky on height.

But, as I said above, such a situation is rare. Most people have almost reached they full height by the time their turn 18 (Through some growth continues at a much reduced rate in most people till about age 21). In many ways ancient people accepted these ages as ages of adulthood (along with age 12 and 14 for certain activities, for example in most societies you could marry at 12, including under English Common Law and Roman Civil Law, you could consent to sex outside of marriage at 12 under English Common Law).

While, under English Common Law and most other ancient laws you could marry at age 12, you stayed under the care control and supervision of your parents till you turn 21 OR they released you from their care, control and supervision (Under Roman law, if you were male, you stayed under the Care, Control and Supervision of your father till his death, no matter how old you were. If you were female the same rule applied, even after marriage, but at your father's death you came under care control and supervision of your oldest male relative, i.e brother or adult son).

I bring this up to show that the difficult decision as to when someone is an adult has been with us for at least 2000 years and some bible stories indicate at least 6000 years. What one can do has changed over time. For example prior to September 1918, you had to be over 21 to enlist in the US Army without your parent's permission (And then had to be over 21 to serve overseas) UNLESS you were an emancipated minor (and the burden was on the minor to show emancipation NOT the Army) In September 1918, the Draft adopted in 1917 was changed from males over age 21 to males over age 18 (It appears no males DRAFTED after September 1918 served overseas). Now the WWII Draft started in 1941 with 18 as the youngest age one could enlist (and the old rule that one had to be over 21 to serve overseas was also dismissed, it had been suspended in 1917 but reinstated after the end of WWI).

Competency for purposes of testimony and other issues was age 14 under the Common Law, based on the fact most people entered the work force around age 14, but mostly doing various side jobs related to work being done by adults (In certain cases younger children were employed, for example on Naval Ships "Powder Monkeys" could be as young as age 8 and up to age 12, for the steps from the powder room to the guns were built NOT for adults but such young pre-teens (I would say males, for that was the official line, but at that age, men have NOT yet gain the muscles they will get in adolescents so young girls could do the job as while as young boys). I wish I could say such Powder Monkeys were the exceptions to the rule, but they were not. The industrial looms of the 1700s and 1800s also used such pre teens.

After saying the above, those pre teens were almost always with their parents, or under the care control and supervision of someone (The Captain of the Ship, the owner of the Loom etc). It is only as a person turn about 14 that they could break from such "Care, Control and Supervision" and go on their own (and remember, under the Common Law, only with permission of the person who had "Care, Control and Supervision" over them).

After a lot of "adjustments" over the last 200 years, many of the old Common Law Age practices are slowly coming back for their work. The Chief is the return to age 18 for most purposes of being an adult but keeping some parts at 21 (and age 14 for others). The big concern has been the abuse done to pre-teens in the early industrial era and the just as bad conditions 14-18 years old worked, for they were NOT yet adults.

Thus starting in the late 1800s the states started to impose regulations as to employment of teenagers. The Federal Government joined in this movement with the New Deal. Both the State and Federal Government also wanted to improve the education level of the people of the US, and that could only be done if teenagers stayed in School. Thus from the late 1800s onward various efforts were made to keep Children in School. This was fairly successful. For example the majority of men in the US Army in WWI were NOT high school graduates, but the Majority of men in the US Army in WWII were high school graduates.

Given the above, the States and the Federal Government has tried to come up with ages that cover most situations. AS I point out above, we have seen a slow return to most of the age restrictions of the Common Law that had been abolished starting in the late 1700s for the restrictions interfered with industrialization (The policy of the time was Government was to encourage industry NOT protect people). With a return to a Government policy of protecting people (starting about 1900 but only being generally accepted in the 1930s), efforts were made at drawing lines as to when a person could do certain types of work. Over time, it became more and more clear the old common law rules, having been based on experience not logic, actually worked. Thus a return to 18 as the general age one could enter the work force without restrictions as to the type of work one can do, but restrictions below that age (With 21 being retained for work in certain jobs, mostly related to alcohol).


Yes, 18 is a arbitrary age, but it is one based on experience and one that works. Younger ages have been tried and failed when compared to age 18. In many ways 21 would be a better age, but given most people want to go to Collage at age 18, and Collages do NOT want to have to deal with parents, the push has been since the 1960s to use 18 not 21 (and this push from Collages appear to be the main reason 18 was accepted for voting NOT that people could be drafted at 18, Collages saw the vote as the first step in dropping the age of consent from 21 to 18 and thus cut out parents from being a factor, other then as a source of money, when it came to collage. The Draft and the Vote was just an excuse).

Comment on why 18 is used as the cut off. Some age has to be used and except for age 21, all have more serious problems then using age 18.

NV Whino

(20,886 posts)
12. I'm not advocating that 9 or 12-year-olds run this machinery.
Fri Aug 2, 2013, 10:03 AM
Aug 2013

I'm asking, because it wasn't mentioned in the article, how much younger were they.

If it's 6 months, it seems as if the fine is excessive. If it's several years, or even one year, then the company is truly negligent and the fine is equal to the crime.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
14. To have so many violations, this implies a wide spread ignoring of the law
Fri Aug 2, 2013, 10:47 AM
Aug 2013

This is NOT one under age person doing something he or she should NOT be doing, but a whole series of under age people doing things they should NOT be doing. Yes, the fine is extreme if they was only one violation done by one under age worker, but that DOES NOT SEEM TO BE THE CASE. It is not one under age worker going from one forbidden job to the next, but a whole series of under age workers doing jobs they should NOT be doing. It is the ACCUMULATION of these violation that lead to the fine, and given what appears to be how wide spread was the practice, the fine was NOT large enough.

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
22. The fine is a slap on the wrist.
Sat Aug 3, 2013, 12:59 PM
Aug 2013

Labour law violations need to hurt, and often hurt rather more than they do, for the companies to realize that it's more economical to actually obey the law in the first place.

B Stieg

(2,410 posts)
7. Used to be a pot washer at a school cafeteria and I can tell you that...
Thu Aug 1, 2013, 11:25 PM
Aug 2013

operating and cleaning meat slicers is actually a pretty dangerous job. If you don't concentrate on what you're doing, it's easy to lop off fingers. I can't imagine what big compactors these kids might have been running, but that sounds pretty dangerous too.

This sounds pretty much like a form of child abuse.

NV Whino

(20,886 posts)
13. If you read the article, it states the kids weren't running the balers
Fri Aug 2, 2013, 10:07 AM
Aug 2013

They were tossing boxes into non operating balers. As for meat slicers, they are dangerous whether they are running or not, and no matter what the age of the operator or cleaner. I helped friends out at a deli a few years back, and I wouldn't go near the meat slicer... And I was we'll over 18.

B Stieg

(2,410 posts)
18. So you're arguing that it's okay to have kids operate slicers because they're dangerous?
Fri Aug 2, 2013, 03:25 PM
Aug 2013

Keep drinking.

B Stieg

(2,410 posts)
21. I'm three chapters from a phd. in Rhetoric.
Sat Aug 3, 2013, 11:46 AM
Aug 2013

The "you didn't read the article" is a standard DU attack posted by those who really mean "how is it that you can't agree with me?"

This isn't a court of law, so I'm really not sure why you think you are arguing conclusive facts. But this situation does indicate a pattern on the part of employers. Patterns reveal motives. Motives lay bare ideologies. I've been working with kids in this age range for 30 years and, as we all know, kids always do responsible things, especially when they're not being watched.

So, again, I ask you, isn't this really about shirking responsibility?

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
8. I lost my last 2 fingers on my right hand to a slicer.
Fri Aug 2, 2013, 07:40 AM
Aug 2013

I was 18 years old at the time. They sewed them back on but they are very deformed.

I got workmen's comp and some asshole Workman Comp Inspector in PA came by my house and claimed I was faking it. How the hell do you fake cutting off your fingers?

sinkingfeeling

(51,436 posts)
9. I worked at a grocery store beginning at age 16. We did some of those
Fri Aug 2, 2013, 09:41 AM
Aug 2013

things that are violations of child labor laws!

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
11. I have a brother who works for Toys-R-Us and tries NOT to hire teenagers do to these restrictions
Fri Aug 2, 2013, 10:01 AM
Aug 2013

When he does hire teenagers, he is under orders that he can NOT leave them do anything that involved heavy machinery. The Box crusher is a big no no for them to use. They can stock shelves, unload trailers, operate cash registers, but most anything else is done by someone over age 18.

I bring this up for these are WELL KNOWN RULES IN BUSINESS. They know the rules, they received letters and other notices what pre 18 year olds can and can not do. This is like going 90 mph through a School Zone, it is almost impossible to NOT know it was illegal.

These stores could be fined for these EACH of these violations, not just a collection of them. This is a sign of incompetent management, people who SHOULD know better. Given how much this is known in the industry I am surprised the fines are that LOW. You do NOT permit this to happen.

gvstn

(2,805 posts)
15. I worked at a grocery for years.
Fri Aug 2, 2013, 11:27 AM
Aug 2013
Store owner Scott Millard said most of the violations involved “kids throwing cardboard into the baler that wasn't operating.”


I don't think throwing cardboard boxes into a baler is particularly dangerous. More akin to old fashioned recycling. I can see where it may be prohibited for someone under 18 to operate the baler but a 16 year old can certainly understand that he/she has to stay clear of the safety door while it lowers. But if it is the law, it suffices to refresh management on the rules.

Anyone under 18 cleaning a slicer is ridiculous. Every single deli worker I knew eventually got cut cleaning a slicer. It is extremely dangerous. It sounds like the under 18(s) were cleaning parts that had been dissembled and not cleaning the machine while it was running but still everyone knows no one under 18 can work in a deli--that is a true violation and should be fined heavily.

jmowreader

(50,528 posts)
24. Almost all these violations were for minors throwing boxes away
Mon Aug 5, 2013, 03:22 AM
Aug 2013

Throwing boxes in the compactor is a hell of a lot safer than unloading a truck, but according to OSHA unloading the truck is safe enough for a minor to do and throwing boxes away is not.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
25. Unloading trucks is definitely not a completely safe job
Mon Aug 5, 2013, 05:10 AM
Aug 2013

For one thing you can have cargo that's often heavy fall on you.

jmowreader

(50,528 posts)
27. With palletized freight that's not as big a danger as it used to be
Mon Aug 5, 2013, 01:46 PM
Aug 2013

The worst danger is if some dumbass supervisor sends you in with a pallet jack to get a skid that's too heavy, your hands slip off the pallet jack handle, and you fall back and hit your head, something I' ve seen happen. Nasty potential for injury or death there.

exboyfil

(17,862 posts)
26. Letting someone under 18 around a meat slicer
Mon Aug 5, 2013, 08:56 AM
Aug 2013

is wrong. As stated in the threads it is very dangerous (I looked at a small one for home use and rejected it for that reason). Remember 14 year olds do operate table and band saws in shop class (I was scared when my two daughters dd it).

On the other hand in Iowa and Nebraska we have a significant agricultural heritage. Our children work with dangerous equipment as teenagers in the farm setting. Even working with livestock has its risks.

A big problem is lots of job are in locations where adults cannot get to them. These grocery stores violated the law, and they appear to be fortunate to not have had these children injured. Perhaps we need more stringent age limits on acquiring jobs. Somehow we also need a way to get more adults in a position to do this jobs (mass transit or more socioeconomic integrated areas).

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