Catholic School Fires Gay Teacher After Wedding.
Source: nyt/ap
A gay teacher at a Catholic high school in Southern California has lost his job after his wedding pictures were published in a local newspaper.
Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2013/08/01/us/ap-us-rel-gay-catholic-teacher-fired.html?hp
What would Francis say???
Treant
(1,968 posts)Well, I mean, if you have a marriage that's immoral by their standards. Like a post-menopausal one. One post-divorce. That kind of...
...what do you mean those two are OK?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)skepticscott
(13,029 posts)We all know how much good that does.
warrant46
(2,205 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)sakabatou
(42,146 posts)plus it's a private school (I think).
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)and religious. Even if there is an orientation-based anti-discrimination statute in effect, it doesn't affect religious institutions.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)Seriously? This is SO fuggin' wrong!
I'm a straight atheist...... but I find the new testament teachings of the Jesus Christ to be admirable.
If he were real, he would be very disappointed with decision to fire this teacher. In fact, I think he would be tossing a few tables over at St. Lucy's!
with you.
cstanleytech
(26,273 posts)nor anyone else's.
What I do know is that if its a private school and one especially being run by or for a religion that they have the ability under the constitution to do this if its their belief that homosexuals are "immoral" though I personally find their reason for firing the guy to be repugnant.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)"Constitutional" but you don't agree with it!
cstanleytech
(26,273 posts)I just wish people would also keep religion out of politics as well because passing laws for religious reasons is as repugnant imo.
cstanleytech
(26,273 posts)That was largely proposed and passed based due to the religious beliefs of those in office and it should never have been passed let alone allowed to stand for so many years by the courts.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)cstanleytech
(26,273 posts)rdharma
(6,057 posts)I didn't know that!
cstanleytech
(26,273 posts)Now explain to us all how do you think government can get around that to force a school being run by a religion to not fire someone for religious reasons?
rdharma
(6,057 posts)And no....... that's not covered in the establishment clause.
cstanleytech
(26,273 posts)the government does in fact run afoul of that clause or atleast somewhat.
Its similar to how the boy scouts were allowed to exclude gay scouts and gay scout masters.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)..... the religious exemption.
This exemption was challenged all the way up to the SCOTUS
"The interest of society in the enforcement of employment discrimination statutes is undoubtedly important, Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. wrote in a decision that was surprising in both its sweep and its unanimity. But so, too, is the interest of religious groups in choosing who will preach their beliefs, teach their faith and carry out their mission.
The Roberts Supreme Court......... figures.
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)Like if they discriminated against blacks.
cstanleytech
(26,273 posts)its a decent carrot and stick to keep them out of politics if its enforced which the IRS has imo been lax on enforcing.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Hosanna-Tabor was decided unanimously against the EEOC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosanna-Tabor_Evangelical_Lutheran_Church_and_School_v._Equal_Employment_Opportunity_Commission
The ruling seemed to amount to a decision that a teaching position with religious duties in a private religious school fell under the ministerial exemption. I'm sure there will be more cases about where such lines are drawn, but the First Amendment includes the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise clause, both of which preclude religion in public schools, but protect private religious education.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html
These two clauses are interrelated and off set each other to a degree. The establishment clause says they will be no FEDERAL Religion (Till the 14th amendment was adopted after the Civil War, the Federal Bill of Rights only applied to the Federal Government not the States) AND the Free Exercise clause forbade the Federal Government from imposing any restrictions on any religion.
Now the Supreme Court has had problems with these two clauses, but only since the 14th amendment was passed (and mostly since the decision to incorporate the First Amendment into the 14th starting in the 1920s). If a State passes a law that bans something, that a religion also ban, is that a violation of the Establishment clause? The Court has generally said no, for that would mean Murder, which is banned by most religions, could not be made a crime for that would be establishment of religion.
Thus the Court has taken a policy to look at the law being challenged and if any reason could show it is NOT religious in nature, it would be upheld as NOT being a violation of the Establishment clause (Thus the various restrictions on abortion have been held to be constitutional even if based in Religion beliefs).
Please note the Right to Abortion is independent of the First, it has been upheld as a right under Constitution that existed at the time of passage of the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights is NOT an exclusive list and thus Rights exist that are NOT listed in the Bill of Rights. The Right to Abortion existed at the time the Bill of Rights was adopted and as such is one of those rights preserved even through it was not listed under the Bill of Rights. Please note like most of the Rights under the Bill of Rights the right to an abortion is a right subject to reasonable restrictions (in fact Roe vs Wade restrictions on when a state can impose restrictions, followed the English Common Law Restrictions that existed at the time of the Bill of Rights. Those Restrictions were ancient, but appears to follow the restrictions mentioned by St Augustine in the 400s. St Augustine drew his restrictions from the practice of ancient Israel, Greece and Rome. St Augustine restrictions were the Catholic Rule on Abortions, till pressure from the Medical Community, who wanted to take aver births and abortions from mid-wives where it had been for over 2000 years, lead to the change to the modern Catholic Doctrine in 1869).
The Free Exercise Clause has also come under attack by the Supreme Court, the Peyote case is the classic case. In the Peyote certain Native America Tribes said the federal ban on Peyote interfered with their religion. The Supreme Court actually accepted that argument but then rule that if a ban in general in nature, not aimed at a particular religion, it is still effective even on practitioners of that religion. Thus the Federal Ban on Peyote was constitutional even if it interfered with the religion of Native Americans.
On top of this is the Religious discrimination ban added to the 1964 Civil Rights act in the 1990s. Since the 1990s one's religion is a protected class of people (Which include atheism as a religion, the Supreme Court has long ruled Religion is more then a belief or non belief in God, it is a world view, thus under the first Atheism is a religion). As a protected class, it can be argued that a law protecting Gays from discrimination is off set by the Civil Rights Act protection of one's religious beliefs. Furthermore, as a general rule, most State Civil Rights Acts provides exemptions based on religion (The Federal Civil Rights Acts do NOT make being gay a protected class so it is not a factor in this case).
Thus, this couple first has to get around any restrictions imposed by the California Civil Rights Acts as to religion, then get around the Free Exercise Clause of the US Constitution. Not impossible, but I doubt he will prevail.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)Then they can go about their bigoted business as they wish.
cstanleytech
(26,273 posts)jtuck004
(15,882 posts)and if they want to be exempt from paying for it they should follow the same rules as everyone else.
Else...buh-bye.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)olddad56
(5,732 posts)"who am I to judge Gays"
SylviaD
(721 posts)either don't be gay or don't work for a religious extremist school.
Get a job in a California public school, one of the most open and diverse school systems in the USA. If every good teacher abandoned the religious extremist school systems, they would have to shut down.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)........they would have to shut down."
RIIIIIIIGHT!
Fearless
(18,421 posts)And they will be judged.
Shame on them.
bonniebgood
(940 posts)Snake Plissken
(4,103 posts)... just sayin
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)And damn that marriage!
...crazy.
MADem
(135,425 posts)JimboBillyBubbaBob
(1,389 posts)Papa Francis doesn't judge but they do. Someone needs to rethink this thing.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)The interest of society in the enforcement of employment discrimination statutes is undoubtedly important, Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. wrote in a decision that was surprising in both its sweep and its unanimity. But so, too, is the interest of religious groups in choosing who will preach their beliefs, teach their faith and carry out their mission.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)It's very different from public schools. The firing certainly upset the student body, though.