USPS takes photos of all mail

[onehandle]

Source: AP

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Postal Service takes pictures of every piece of mail processed in the United States — 160 billion last year — and keeps them on hand for up to a month. In an interview with The Associated Press, Postmaster General Patrick Donahoe said the photos of the exterior of mail pieces are used primarily for the sorting process, but they are available for law enforcement, if requested.

The photos have been used "a couple of times" by to trace letters in criminal cases, Donahoe told the AP on Thursday, most recently involving ricin-laced letters sent to President Barack Obama and New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg. "We don't snoop on customers," said Donahoe, adding that there's no big database of the images because they are kept on nearly 200 machines at processing facilities across the country. Each machine retains only the images of the mail it processes.

"It's done by machine, so there's no central area where any of this information would be," he said. "It's extremely expensive to keep pictures of billions of pieces of mail. So there's no need for us to do that." The images are generally stored for between a week and 30 days and then disposed of, he said. Keeping the images for those periods may be necessary to ensure delivery accuracy, for forwarding mail or making sure that the proper postage was paid, he said.

"Law enforcement has requested a couple of times if there's any way we could figure out where something came from," he said. "And we've done a little bit of that in the ricin attacks." The automated mail tracking program was created after the deadly anthrax attacks in 2001 so the Postal Service could more easily track hazardous substances and keep people safe, Donahoe said.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/ap-interview-usps-takes-photos-mail-072949079.html

---

Freak Out, DU! Freak Out!

[GoneFishin]

1. I read "disposed of" to mean "moved to another location", not destroyed.

Given the government's ravenous hunger for all information about U.S. citizens' activities, I don't believe for a second that they destroy these photos.

[JoePhilly]

8. Imagine what they'd do with your medical records.

Say NO to government run health care.

Right?

[penultimate]

2. Mail sorting fascists!

[Crow73]

13. Snark?

This is how they caught the Ricin mailer that gave birth in jail.
Sometimes the security works.
Taking a photo of the package you paid the government to deliver isn't some horrible thing, it is a service that keeps us safe.

[kelliekat44]

37. And the banks do the same with your checks and hold them for up to 7 years? So what?

Anyone complain about the banks? People are getting to the point where they are all jumping on the GOP bandwagon that "your government is evil, and anything they do to is bad since Obama is President.

[penultimate]

46. I don't want photos of my package to end up on the internet.....

....again

[dipsydoodle]

3. USPS story from the past.

I bought an assembled banjo body from Bob Flesher / Dr Horsehair with all its hardware in place for shipping to the UK. He took it down to post office to check the mail figure and the post office having presumably x-rayed it the carton said it couldn't go by air as it looked suspicious. Bob emailed me to advise and I asked him to dismantle it and try again. The post office accepted it.

[uppityperson]

45. USPS story from the past

Late 90's. I had a package notice so waited in line. Person before me got the lecture of how to properly wrap a package, that you couldn't simply put it in a reused box, write on in, tape with regular tape.

I gave my notice, USPS employee returns with a solemn look, holding my package between 2 fingers by the string tied loosely around it. Reused box. Yellowed tape, not sticky anymore allowing both ends of box to be loose. The string was fastened not by a bow but by a piece of lead. Numerous random postal stamps all over 1 side of it. Arabic script for the return address.

He put it on the counter, we both just looked, I started giggling. It was a good thing I knew it was a scarf I'd ordered from Egypt. I removed the scarf right there without having to untape or untie anything, still giggling and saying "not like this?"

[davidpdx]

4. OMG now they are reading our mail?

Maybe they have implanted bugs in our head. They are controlling our thoughts. Right now they are controlling what I type.

[happyslug]

15. Only the envelopes NOT what is inside

What is on the outside of an envelope is public. It is needed to get the letter to where you want it to go. Thus no privacy interest in the outside of the envelope.

What the Postal service is NOT doing is taking photos of the CONTENTS of those letters. It is the contents that the right to privacy prevails. To get at the contents you have to open the envelope (or somehow else remove the contents from the inside of the envelope).

Now, technically it may be possible to see the inside of an envelope by a photo from the outside, depends on the thickness of the envelope and the letter (and how many times the letter is folded). That is MUCH harder to do, not impossible but most cases almost impossible. Even with today's technology it would take a lot of effort, effort one may use on ONE envelope but not ALL envelopes or even most envelopes.

Sorry, this is much to do about nothing. Prior to taking these photo, Clerks and Letter Carriers looked at the outside of envelopes all the time. If something was wrong they reported it. These photos are NOT of the contents but the outside and unless you wrote something of a criminal nature on the outside of the envelope not a real concern,

[davidpdx]

17. Sorry I should have added the sarcasm tag

It was implied

[bonniebgood]

19. thank you Happyslug- I posted somethng to this a while back. there is still

something called 'tampering with the US Mail'= felony. If the USPS was dismantled and given
to ups and fedx there would be no such thing as 'US MAIL'.
there is no privacy on the OUTSIDE of the envelope. You intend for the outside to be read in order to reach its destination. PLUS you can still send a letter without a return address.
US MAIL is the last bit of privacy we the people still have. Snail Mail is BACK. Typewriters are Back.
Hard copy is back. Thanks Snowden.

[bucolic_frolic]

42. Funny!

What's inside is not visible to snoopers?

I've read of many devices that slip under the flap and photograph,
scan from the outside with bright light and software unscramble,
soak in temporary solvent to sharpen images ....

if it can be done they probably already have a way to do it

[happyslug]

48. It is also possible just to take out the letter using mechanical means, photo it and return it.

All without opening the envelope. These tools were known in the 1950s (a very old Perry Mason episode from the original TV show, NOT the made for TV movies, used the device as a plot device in the 1950s).

The problem with these is it take TIME AND EFFORT to use them. The same with devices to take pictures of letters inside envelopes, it takes take to use them. Remember in the case of envelopes they take the picture of the outside, a quick less then a second shot. Taking the photo probably does NOT even slow down the sorting of the mail. On the other hand, putting something in the envelope to take a picture, or to remove the contents, does TAKE TIME AND EFFORT. For that reason alone, if such photos are taken, it is done on letters to someone on someone's watch list.

Yes, they are ways to take photos of contents of envelopes without breaking the seal. The problem is such procedures are slow and cumbersome. Even if it can be done in under a minute, that is much loner then taking a photo of the outside of the envelope, which can be done in milliseconds.

Is it possible to photo the contents of an envelope? Yes, is it being done? Maybe and then only mail to certain people who someone has an interest in for only then does the extra time and effort to do such photos would be worth the effort.

Side note: While it is possible to read what is inside an envelope, it is still illegal and whoever did it can be charged with a crime and sentence to up to five years in jail AND lose all of his mailing privileges (i.e. he will get not mail, the Post Office can be quite mean). Postal inspectors have the widest authority of any Federal Law Enforcement agency, and the highest respect (you have very few cases of abuse with the postal inspectors, even through if anyone can do it and get away with it, it is the postal inspectors). Thus to read the mail, the postal inspectors will have to approve of it, and they will NOT for such reading without a court order is something they just will not do. They know their reputation and will protect it and reading mail without a court order means risking that reputation and that is to high a price for them to pay.

[Igel]

16. Yes.

The scanning and OCR also include sensitive UV scans that cause the organic dyes in inks to fluoresce at just the right wavelengths to be picked up by a second set of scanners. After all, they check for postage not using visible light but UV.

The carbon in pencil and laser print show up on a third superimposed image taken at a third wavelength.

Complicated algorithms unmerge the layers of print from two-sided pages and multiple pages folded to fit in envelopes.

What's scary are the DNA tests that the USPS has that can analyse DNA in a fraction of a second just given the three different wavelengths used, so they can backtrack not only to who licked the evelope but who stocked the laser printer

So by the time the machine has decided where to sort it, an AI device has read your mail, sorted the electronic image, and is deciding whether to process it all to issue a warrant alert.

[davidpdx]

18. See #17

I wasn't being serious

[bigworld]

5. This really isn't new

The digital photographing of mail has been around for a while, it's what allows the automated equipment to actually work. When you send a letter to Aunt Mabel in Missoula the face of the envelope is photographed and a computer reads the address, and assigns and imprints the Zip + 4 barcode on the bottom. That barcode is read again at the Missoula distribution center and sorted by the carrier route.

There's nothing really nefarious about it.

[Lenomsky]

7. So ...

Why is it necessary to take and store an image ... OCR, Camera's & CPU power these days is sure fast enough to do it on the fly or am I mistaken?

Edit: I should have read slowly ...

"The automated mail tracking program was created after the deadly anthrax attacks in 2001 so the Postal Service could more easily track hazardous substances and keep people safe, Donahoe said."

Oh wait so the automated 'mail tracking program' was created after 2001 attacks so it's not a tool for speeding the sorting of mail but a measure implemented to track certain parcels.

[JoePhilly]

10. So they can track it, and correctly identify it, if something goes wrong.

[baldguy]

11. If someone or something is screwing up would you rather have them be there forever?

A month isn't very long.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

25. The OCR and BCR machines...

... are used for sorting those letters by machine vs by hand and has been so since the mid 80's. Nothing more than a more efficient and less labor intensive method of sorting letters and sending them on to their destination.

The issue of, "holding images of the letter/address area", is for tracking, ie... forwarding addresses, too, and mostly. A big problem at the USPS is, "loop mail", mis-addressed or lack of forwarding address mail that gets stuck in a, "loop". That is, delivery is made given information in the address area of the item, but the person it is addressed to has moved, not notified the USPS, etc, and the person using the box it was delivered to just re-enters it in the mail stream. Having that particular piece of mail in a temporary data base speeds up the delivery - "return to sender, address unknown, no such person at this address", or the lag in the change of address being filed with the USPS, or whatever reason that piece was undeliverable at one point. It is only intended to get the item delivered to the person it is addressed to, whether they have moved. Any use of that data while it is still on the, "local", sorting center data base for law enforcement purposes is coincidental, at best. As in it would be a coincidence if that sorting runs data base were still at the local sorting center.

[LiberalFighter]

33. It is likely a big part of bulk rate mail

When I receive a change of address from the post office that is on the card there is usually a copy of the piece that was mailed printed on it. Since we do monthly mailings it helps to identify which piece was also mailed.

We haven't gone to having an internet account with the post office but I think that is where more of the use comes into play to monitor your account and easily retrieve a record of bad mailings, etc.

[Lenomsky]

6. Sh*t 160 Billion images ..

OCR (Optical Character Recognition) has been around for years and I expect Postal Services use this technology to sort efficiently but capturing images of every piece of mail!? WOW!

I wonder if mail originating from certain countries gets extra special attention and the images stored and/or 'Red Flagged'.

When I sell stuff on E-Bay etc I use a label printer as it seems mail arrives so much faster when ZIP/Postal Code is easy to read by man or machine.

Edit: Typo

[apnu]

21. Still, I bet 80% of the pix are junk-mail and bills. (nt)

[LiberalFighter]

34. Exactly! Along with other bulk mail.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

27. The main reason for holding on to the images is ...

... for the mail forwarding process. Handwritten addresses that the OCR is unable to read, is then run past a clerk/mail processor sitting at a computer console who visually reads the address and types in the correct code so a bar code can be printed upon the envelope. It is faster within the system to do this. While everyone at the USPS is happy that you got your birthday car from aunt Edna in Peoria, no one there is keeping tabs on how many years in a row, or how many birthday cards you received in the mail.

[cstanleytech]

55. Hey there, no bringing common sense into the thread please.

After all it just totally ruins the whole party going on for some here.

[baldguy]

9. How do you think they get those barcodes on the envelopes?

Just because some nefarious person can think up a nefarious use for a particular technology does not mean the technology itself is nefarious.

[Lenomsky]

23. Ok I accept that ..

I'm not a postal worker clearly ...

Hypothetical:

So mail goes through the sort facility and I imagine that certain pre-processing takes place i.e. parcel size, weight whatever etc then mail goes to the automagical sorting system and OCR reads the delivery details if unable it's dropped into a manual sorting loop however if it can accurately read the details then it would automatically route it to the correct sort channel and frank (barcode whatever) the letter on the fly i.e reads details, stamps the letter and routes to correct sort channel. I imagine these details read by the machine are held on the system and passed to the next chain i.e. incoming mail at sort facility X. If a letter was machine unreadable then I assume manual intervention and the details entered manually (or the letter is simply manually pushed to the correct sorting channel) and maybe capturing an image is necessary in such a circumstance.

So what I don't understand is the need to capture an image and hold for a month. What purpose does that serve?

[baldguy]

28. Asked and answered. See replies to your Post #7 above.

[liberal N proud]

12. It was most likely implemented as a quality monitoring system

Unless it has x-ray capability, all you are going to get is size shape, to and from and the cost of mailing it.

[Sunlei]

14. imagine it would take a year to get mail if they had to sort by hand.

The wonder of barcodes and computers.

[Lugal Zaggesi]

20. No wonder the USPS is always begging for more money

The automated mail tracking program was created after the deadly anthrax attacks in 2001 so the Postal Service could more easily track hazardous substances and keep people safe, Donahoe said.

They are forced to go way outside their core mission.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/17/news/usps-debt-limit/index.html
Postal Service barred from borrowing more
WASHINGTON (CNNMoney)
The cash-strapped U.S. Postal Service has reached its $15 billion debt limit as capped by Congress and is barred from borrowing more.
The Postal Service hit the cap on Sept. 28, a spokesman confirmed, reinforcing the fact that its cash reserves are running dangerously low.

[eggplant]

22. Oh, please.

Not this again. The USPS is in the red because of the stupid 75 year pension obligations the republican congress crammed down their throats.

The money spent on automation saves money and improves service. This *is* their core mission.

[Lenomsky]

58. That was my point .. but seems they keep the images anyway ..

waste of computer storage.

[Historic NY]

26. The only people that can open or examine the mail are US Postal Inspectors...

and they been doing that job since 1772...you know when the Brits were running things.

[onehandle]

29. Another King George Plot!

Thank God we have the Second Amendment to keep him in line.

[PoliticAverse]

31. You must not have been alive in the 60's and 70's and missed the "in the custody of the post office"

semantic loophole that was used to open mail.

But the long history of mail covers is linked with something far more sinister — an extensive and illegal mail-opening program run by the CIA and the FBI for more than two decades beginning in the mid-1950s. An infamous CIA program in New York City, dubbed HT Lingual, was ultimately responsible for intercepting, opening and photographing more than 215,000 communications by the time it shut down in 1973. All this was under the guise of mail covers. (These operations were chronicled in vivid detail in the 1976 report of the Church Committee, the Senate panel that delved into illegal intelligence gathering in the wake of the Watergate scandal.)

According to the Church report, the CIA was zealous about keeping the Postal Service from learning that mail was being opened by government agents. CIA agents moved mail to a private room to do the dirty work or in some cases opened envelopes at night after stuffing them in briefcases or even coat pockets to deceive postal officials.

http://www.salon.com/2007/01/05/mail_cover/

[Historic NY]

39. Well from 1950-73....

What was going on in America & the world ? The rate of the opening was done w/o the postal service knowing.

"For a period of approximately two decades, agencies of the U.S. government ran operations which opened the mail of some American citizens. The first identified intercept operation was started by the CIA’s Office of Security in 1952, and mail going to and from the Soviet Union was a subject of keen interest. “Take” from the mail interception was shared in many cases with the FBI. A particularly large-scale mail-opening operation was conducted in New York, and targeted mail entering from the Soviet Union. This operation, run by the CIA, went by the project codename HTLINGUAL. One of the more famous persons to have his mail opened was Lee Harvey Oswald, the accused assassin of President Kennedy. Witnesses included senior officials of the CIA, the Postal Service, the FBI, and the Justice Department"

"Mail to and from the Soviet Union was processed at LaGuardia Airport post office where a the postal authorities agreed it could be inspected by agency officer in the presence of a postal service representative."

Done mostly at random most mails was about the coming and goings of life here, weather, crops, etc. Some agency people thought that general intelligence stuff would be sent via the mail. Their thinking was the Soviets were as good as if not better in gathering intelligence. They kept looking for scraps amongst the lines. They even developed a list of names to check on more frequently. The amount of mail checked averaged less that 10000 per year.

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/contents/church/contents_church_reports_vol4.htm

[intaglio]

30. OK, so how did the know-nothings on this board think mail got sorted?

Every letter carefully hand sorted by master mailmen overseeing their journeymen and apprentices or perhaps by secret aliens hiding inside boxes that only look like automated sorting machines as seen in MIB II?

Well, the masterminds at the USPS decided decades ago that optical character recognition (OCR) was the way to go and that is done using (tah-da-dah!) cameras and these strange computer thingummybobs could record all that data so they could track mail, make sure that it arrived and that complaints (although no-one ever complains about the USPS) and crimes could actually be investigated.

They had no fear of infringing privacy because long established law has it that the outside of envelopes and packages, although enclosing privileged communications, are published i.e. open to the public.

I wouldn't mind but I have been saying this for the past 10 days or more ...

[penultimate]

47. What's wrong with the old fashion ways of doing it

using hamster and pigeon sorters?

[Pholus]

32. Hey, sounds like no problem at all.

The reasons seem articulate and the "we dispose of the data after 30 days" seems very reasonable just as long as "dispose of" isn't actually a kewl-kid euphemism for "add to a large permanent secret federated database out in Utah."

Besides, the USPS (unlike the NSA) hasn't been caught lying recently. They still have some level of earned trust.

[Blasphemer]

50. I agree...

Now, if we're talking about the circumstances under which law enforcement gains access, that could be a different story. But, thus far, it doesn't appear that anything untoward is going on.

[NoOneMan]

35. To build a profile of you, create a personality image, and track you for risk to the state?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

36. You mean they're snooping on all the letters to Santa?

[roamer65]

56. Never know...Santa could be a communist infiltrator.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

57. I'm old enough to remember the news claiming he was being tracked by NORAD.

[ann---]

38. So?

What's the big deal? It's out there for EVERYONE to see on the outside of the envelope. Now, if they were opening mail and photographing what's inside, then I'd understand your whine. Otherwise, I don't see a problem.

[gussmith]

43. No?

How about sheer stupidity, inefficiency and gross waste of money?

[Posteritatis]

53. That would be sorting that volume of mail by hand. (nt)

[JohnnyRingo]

40. Why is the govt looking at my mail?

Government mail sorters should mind their own business instead of worrying about where my letters are going.

Now Uncle Sam knows about my subscription renewal to Barnyard Sex Quarterly. Is nothing sacred?

[gussmith]

41. Are They Kidding?

What foolishness!! I no longer have any concern that the postal service is in the red.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

44. It's only metdata.

Carry on.

[DCBob]

49. OMG Obama's reading my mail!!

[Warpy]

51. Banks also photograph all checks and have done so for decades.

When something goes missing, the photographic record is checked to find out just where it did. Usually it can be found at that facility or at the prior one.

This does not bother me. I've dealt with the banking photographs. I know how often and why that film gets reviewed.

Of course, I couldn't find a single thing on Nixon's enemies list. Funny how that stuff works out.

[Travis_0004]

52. There is a difference between a check and a piece of first class mail

If my bank withdraws 500.00 due to a check, I have the right to dispute it, and they need to present the check, or a photograph, to prove that I authorized it.

If I sent out a piece of first class mail and it gets lots, I have no recourse. If I call, they won't investigate.
If I want the ability to track a package, I need to pay for tracking, which is a separate service. Even then, they use a special code and bar codes to track those packages.

[Riftaxe]

54. They say photos always add a few pounds....

I guess that explains the USPS shipping rates