Palo Alto passes vehicle dwelling ban

[alp227]

Source: Palo Alto Daily News

At a meeting punctuated by emotional cries for compassion, the Palo Alto City Council voted late Monday night to pass an ordinance that would make it illegal for people to use their cars as dwellings.

Diane Jones choked back tears as she told council members that she only recently became homeless and couldn't afford to put a roof over her son's head with the monthly $1,200 disability benefit she receives.

"Me and my son live in a car and we're not bad people. I'm so afraid what will happen if we lose that," said Jones.

"I'm begging you to just please have a heart," she added to thunderous applause from a packed council chambers.

Read more: http://www.mercurynews.com/peninsula/ci_23803353/palo-alto-passes-vehicle-dwelling-ban

[ForgoTheConsequence]

1. Disgusting.

This country is becoming a fucking disgrace. Can't afford a house? Fuck you! We'll fine you money you don't have.

[warrant46]

27. Who would Jesus Evict and Jail?

[BlueJazz]

2. "The estimated 30 to 50 people who live in their cars in Palo Alto" What the Hell ???

30 to 50 people live in their cars in the WHOLE TOWN.

The town has 64,403 people and they're worried about 30 to 50 people sleeping in their cars.

You Have to be shitting me.

[Safetykitten]

13. Starbucky/Hipster/bringing down property values problems. Can they get a car HOA?

[4Q2u2]

57. Don't you know

That only rich people deserve nice places to live. Homeless people should not have ocean views and clean vistas You know that single moms can single handedly destroy entire towns, maybe even our country. At least that is what I have been told about them and their welfare.

[dbackjon]

3. Sickening.

So, kick them down the road to another town?

Can't let reality intrude on your pretty?

[Ken Burch]

18. It's like the song Utah Phillips wrote about class-cleansing in Denver:

(the song begins at about 1:40 in the clip)

[KamaAina]

26. Supposedly every other town in the area already has one

at least on the Santa Clara County side ("Shallow Alto" borders San Mateo County on its north).

[Aristus]

4. Goddammit! More criminalization of homelessness!

I swear, sometimes I just want to scream at people!...

[Orsino]

47. It's egalitarian, though.

The rich and poor alike are prohibited from living in their cars.

Wait a minute! The rich have more cars per capita, so this law unfairly inconveniences the.

[Bette Noir]

5. Ah, the sweet smell of the criminalization of poverty.

[pam4water]

7. +1

[awoke_in_2003]

24. Coming soon, debtor's prisons. nt

[Gregorian]

6. Palo Alto isn't the town that I grew up in any longer.

My 92 year old neighbor still lives there. He's a true Palo Altan who walks everywhere. He's fucking disgusted with the place.

Money fucks up most things.

[The Stranger]

8. If there was thunderous applause froma packed council chamber, why did it pass?

Did those people not vote for the council members?

[JoeyT]

22. Because the weight of your vote is determined by how much money you have. n/t

[October]

81. So true. Local governments from school board to zoning board is all about

what's in it for ME and my cronies.

They do not REPRESENT all and often become major bullying entities.

[adirondacker]

93. and here I thought my town was special.

I live in a RED town that's corrupt top to bottom.

[loudsue]

9. This calls for an all-out shaming by the internet social media.

The council members, and the economic development team, need to hear from everyone.....everyone... about this. Does anyone here have their e-mail addresses that we can write to them?

They need to hear how this should be repealed immediately. Plus, we need to find people in Palo Alto to run against them all in the next election....and then fund those candidates.

[aggiesal]

10. From Palo Alto City Website (ask and you shall receive!!!) . . .

City Clerk/City Council
250 Hamilton Avenue, Palo Alto, CA 94301
Phone: [phone], Fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]


Gregory Scharff - Mayor
250 Hamilton Avenue
Palo Alto, CA 94301
[phone]
[e-mail]


Nancy Shepherd - Vice Mayor
1556 Madrono Avenue
Palo Alto, CA 94306
[phone]
[e-mail]


Patrick Burt - Council Member
250 Hamilton Avenue
Palo Alto, CA 94301
[phone]
[e-mail]


Marc Berman - Council Member
250 Hamilton Avenue,Palo Alto, CA 94301
[phone]
[e-mail]


Karen Holman - Council Member
250 Hamilton Avenue
Palo Alto, CA 94301
[phone]
[e-mail]


Larry Klein - Council Member
872 Seale Avenue
Palo Alto, CA 94303
[phone] (h)
[phone] (o)
[e-mail]


Gail A. Price - Council Member
250 Hamilton Avenue
Palo Alto, CA 94301
[phone]
[e-mail]


Greg Schmid - Council Member
3428 Janice Way, Palo Alto 94303
[phone]
[e-mail]


Liz Kniss - Council Member
250 Hamilton Avenue
Palo Alto, CA 94301
[phone]
[e-mail]

[Safetykitten]

14. How many of these pieces of work are Democrats?

[KamaAina]

28. It is officially a non-partisan office

but I would wager that most have D's after their names. "Shallow Alto" is prime habitat for the limousine liberal.

[RKP5637]

36. When it comes to money, R often =D.

[frylock]

15. look at all those shiny, happy people..

never had to worry about where their next meal may come from, or where they will safely sleep for the night.

[Diego_Native 2012]

31. Thanks for the info....but Palo Alto is not alone.

In San Diego it is also illegal to live in your vehicle. Sleeping in public can also land you in jail whether it's in a park or on a public street. Ocean Beach is considering an 'ordinance' to make it illegal to occupy your RV and/or park it on the street. Homeowners with RVs will be allowed a permit, but transient RVers will not.

A couple of months ago some kind but misguided people held an annual Night Out for the Homeless where normal people were invited to spend a night out in a park so they could experience what the homeless experience every day. Of course there was a medical tent, portable latrines, and snacks available along with security provided. But, you know who was specifically NOT invited...the homeless. In fact, the homeless who normally made their flops in that park were forced to move elsewhere.

[aggiesal]

49. I live in San Diego as well . . .

and the ironic part about your story on "Annual Night Out for the Homeless",
by providing portable latrines, snacks and security is not what the homeless
experience every day.

Yet, at rest stops on freeways, you can sleep to your hearts content.

[Sirveri]

82. There is actually a time limit for being at a rest stop of 6 hours.

If I remember correctly.

[aggiesal]

85. And some have restrooms and showers! n/t

[4Q2u2]

58. Now that is diversity

See it is we are not just a bunch of pasty White Guys. We can't be bad.

[Javaman]

11. I hate these bastards.

because that's what they are.

[Safetykitten]

12. These homeless people just don't know that they should be voting for Democrats. Simple.

We will take care of them, why the President is there today in California to make some points. Very important points. He's serious this time.

[bitchkitty]

55. Are you being sarcastic? It's early; I can't tell.

ETA - read your edits. Never mind!

[sakabatou]

16. Ugh!

[Ken Burch]

17. What sort of soulless bastards are ON that City Council?

And what did people living in their cars ever do to THEM?

Also, any chance that those who oppose car-dwelling would do something positive about the issue...like, say, passing a rent-control law or building enough low-income housing so that people wouldn't have to live in their freaking cars?

[avaistheone1]

84. Evidently these well-paid city council folks are happy

to pass the buck to the "faith-based community". That's quite a cop-out on the city of Palo Alto's part.

No wonder so few have faith in government even on the local level.

[dbackjon]

19. Editorial in support of this - by local newspaper

Compassion and support for the downtrodden has always been an important part of the Palo Alto culture, but city leaders have done the community a disservice by allowing the problem of vehicle dwelling to languish for more than five years.

Spurred on this time by reports of increasing problems at Cubberley Community Center, which in the words of City Manager James Keene is becoming a "de facto homeless shelter," the City Council's Policy and Services Committee voted 2-1 last week to put an ordinance in front of the full council.

Vehicle dwelling, which is against the law in all neighboring communities, is one of those Palo Alto issues that seems to never reach a final resolution.

College Terrace residents tried to get the city to act back in 2008, as they saw first-hand the effects of there being no legal mechanism for preventing someone from deciding to park and spend the night in his or her car or camper directly in front of a home.
http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/show_story.php?id=29734

[eppur_se_muova]

20. Fighting the "blight" of homelessness without fighting homelessness itself.

Yeah, that'll work.

[taught_me_patience]

21. I actually support this

Homeless people who sleep in their cars can really blight a neighborhood.

[AngryOldDem]

23. Then we need to come up with more constructive solutions rather than more penalties.

[taught_me_patience]

33. Why can't we do both?

[ForgoTheConsequence]

37. Because there shouldn't be penalties for being poor!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one is choosing to be poor just to spite you!

[AngryOldDem]

39. Penalize people for their current circumstances?

Penalize AND help? Say what?

[Mr. David]

42. If you really give a shit.

Then demand low income housing for EVERYONE.

Have these McIdiots (new money) contribute about 5% of their income to the poor. Set aside some acreage for low income housing.

What the fuck is the matter with these retreads?

[maxsolomon]

86. new low income housing takes YEARS to develop

it has to meet federal regulations, it has to be managed. and it has to be PAID FOR, somehow.

there are few outright grants of funds adequate to support new housing costs. housing authorities and non-profits struggle just to fund ANYTHING, so it falls on limited sources like LIHTC (tax credit) funding, which is highly competitive.

what we have is an ongoing crisis, and one entire party dedicated to defunding any possible solutions to it. the palo alto council are merely passing the buck, trying to avoid becoming the one place in the region where car living is allowed.

like hawaii dedicating state funds to one-way plane tickets off the island, to fight other states who sent their homeless to hawaii.

[Ash_F]

62. Because they are not doing both? /nt

[awoke_in_2003]

25. I see it doesn't trouble your beautiful mind. nt

[ForgoTheConsequence]

30. God forbid you have to look at a homeless person.

I can only imagine how hard that must be for you.

[taught_me_patience]

32. I don't want them parking outside of my home

for three days. Sorry... most people don't. The city council is there to represent their constituents... notice that surrounding cities forbid the same thing... there is a reason.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

35. And who represents the homeless?

I can only imagine how hard it must be for you to see a homeless person in their car. I mean you have to go inside your home, in the air conditioning, open your full fridge, pull out food for dinner and sleep in a nice warm bed then wake up and take a nice warm shower all with the image of a homeless person on your mind. I feel for you, I really do.

[maxsolomon]

87. this is a national crisis. NATIONAL.

some cities become burdened by the impacts of the homeless out of proportion to others, whether that is because of their weather or because of well-intentioned benefits that draw the transient/indigent.

in my town, seattle, where benefits and services are pretty good (comparitively), and we have a 10 year plan to "end homelessness", we have seen a massive influx of car-dwellers and other homeless this summer. now every building vestibule around my office smells like piss. i don't like it, but i also don't see the city jumping into the fray to build public toilets in the next 2 months. somehow, i don't think homelessness will end before the plan does.

yes, we should all be gandhi, but nearly everyone falls short of that standard. TMP has lived with the impacts of car-dwellers in Venice and likely tolerated it without complaint. it's not all sunshine and puppies. like the palo alto council, he/she is frustrated and doesn't know what else to try.

because their are no good solutions available in this bellicose and punitive era.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

88. I don't feel bad.

As someone who has live in areas where there are gun shots and police helicopters every night and the first thing you do in the morning is make sure your windows and wheels are still on your car, I have a hard time feeling sorry for white bread suburb dwellers.

Homelessness is a reality and maybe its a good thing its showing up at your front door. Maybe that's what it will take for suburban middle class liberals to acknowledge it.

[maxsolomon]

89. i acknowledge it. i see it every day.

and so does TMP, apparently.

i can't speak for suburbanites, but in seattle, most middle class liberals see it every day, in nearly every neighborhood they go to. i live in a neightborhood with million dollar + homes (like venice or palo alto), but i have homeless living in the greenbelt at the end of the street, and there is emergency family housing 3 blocks from my house. beggars come directly to my door, dropped off to solicit my street by the shelters they stay at. at work, i have schizophrenics immediately outside my office door. every day. i tolerate it, but i have limits to my compassion.

reagrdless, show compassion, don't show compassion, give alms, don't give alms, volunteer time, or don't, the problem is intractable. there is no political will to deal with it constructively. the only politically viable responses are reactive and punitive - like this ordinance.

perhaps you want middle class suburban CONSERVATIVES to acknowledge it. then maybe something would happen.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

90. Would it?

What has the Democratic party done for the poor and disenfranchised lately? I hear A LOT of talk about the middle class but nothing, nada, zip about the poor.

there is no political will to deal with it constructively. the only politically viable responses are reactive and punitive - like this ordinance.

I agree. But the poor don't usually vote, so they don't have a voice.

[maxsolomon]

91. what would you have them do?

the GOP has their boots on the neck of progress because congress controls the budget. that boot isn't coming off before late next year at the earliest. what are the Dems supposed to do without the ability to fund anything? pretty, empty words?

when we had congress and the presidency in 2009-2010, for 2 years, the ACA was passed. THAT helps the poor, or is at least intended to, right? remember how easy that wasn't? remember how the tea party screamed like 2 year olds having a tantrum?

the homeless are BELOW the poor on the poverty scale. they can vote or not, there is no money coming out of congress.

[AngryOldDem]

38. Do you think people ENJOY living out of their cars?

Seriously? Sometimes a car is the only thing they have left. They aren't out to make your neighborhood look bad, or to piss you off.

I have worked with the homeless, and most (barring those with mental illness) want nothing more than to have a place of their OWN. I hope the council is also working with community groups to provide assistance and housing leads for those who need it.

All these laws do is make nomads of out people whom society should be helping. Remember: There but for the grace of God go I; and in this economy, some of us may be closer to that existence than we care to believe.

Homelessness is not optimal or convenient -- for the homeless especially.

[snooper2]

66. Some do yes- Off the Grid!

Then there are the, homeless by choice, interesting documentary

[AngryOldDem]

70. Well aware of "homeless by choice" -- I worked with a lot of them.

And actually, they are quite interesting. What they have done, what they have seen, their whole perspective on life. They have made a choice and are quite comfortable with it.

What I was referring to in my post are the ones like the woman and her child mentioned in the OP. I've also known families like them, too.

But I took most execption to the post considering fellow human beings "blights."

[Mr. David]

43. Dude. Go find housing for under $750.00 in California

Go ahead.

Know why you can't find any? Rent is priced out for the low-income and the low-middle class. They end up homeless because they can't afford to live and not eat. You have to literally live out to the boonies to live on an affordable housing, and then what? No transportation, no access to work. Many wind up living in the urban area to keep their pay.

That woman was living on a $1,200 disability money. I am too (on disability), and I have housing, and plenty of help. My rent is low enough here and I live in a decent housing and we're already looking to move (the property is very hot and my landlords want to sell the land and are willing to help with the costs involved) to a bigger and a little newer house (this house is a bungalow that has been out of code for the last 35+ years and would require massive dollars to get it to code)

[Sheldon Cooper]

48. Disgusting.

What's the problem - are they shitting in your yard, or pulling out your garden hose to take a shower? Shame on you.

[hamsterjill]

50. I'm curious then.

Where do you want those homeless people to go who can no longer seek shelter in their vehicles?

And I'm serious. I'd like to know what solution you are proposing.

[AngryOldDem]

72. That they go far, far away from his house? n/t

[hamsterjill]

74. That's right!

But the poster doesn't want to acknowledge that he/she doesn't own the sidewalks in front of his/her house, do they?

For me, personally - where's the compassion!!!! Yes, I might be a little unnerved at first if someone was living on the street in front of my house. But that's MY problem. I would hope that I would go out and offer the person some food, water, etc.

[AngryOldDem]

78. News flash: We're going to be seeing a lot more of this before it's all said and done.

For all we know, we're already seeing it; it's just invisible to us.

It's easy to criminalize behavior and a lot harder to try to find solutions to, in most cases, situations that just spiraled out of control.

[hamsterjill]

83. I understand. And I agree that we will be seeing more of it.

As things get worse, more and more people will be faced with homelessness.

Very sad, but certainly something that we are seeing right now with no end in sight. It's easy for some people to push the idea of homelessness out of their minds and blame the person who is homeless. The "if he really wanted to work, he would" mentality is prevalent.

My hope is that *I* have a better understanding of the problem and would do my part to help someone that I might be able to help.

[Ash_F]

61. Who taught you patience? /nt

[taught_me_patience]

64. Do you mind this outside your home?

Yeah... I thought not. Difference... I'm honest about it.

[Sheldon Cooper]

65. Wow - you didn't even give them a chance to respond before you answered for them.

Asking and answering your own question is the only way you can win?

Are you telling us this vehicle is currently parked outside your house? To be honest, which you so highly value, this wouldn't bother me one bit. So there.

[taught_me_patience]

68. I lived in Venice and had to deal with this

It's real easy for people who've never experienced this sort of thing to sit back and say they have "compassion". When it's in front of your house, it's a completely different story.

[AngryOldDem]

71. Frankly, I've seen a LOT worse parked outside of some homes.

Cars half dismantled, cars with flats, cars on blocks...and they belong to the folks living in those houses. Right now parked in the drive next door is a Saab with it's front end torn up. Guy started to work on it, and has apparently lost interest.

Basic prejudice toward who Christ called "the least of these" is what we have here.

EDIT: Word correction.

[Ash_F]

69. You seem to be fighting a loosing battle on this site.

To answer your question. Don't care enough to run them out of town. I have bigger challenges at the moment.

Besides, I like the paint job.

[LanternWaste]

46. I imagine many people prioritize gilding over people...

"Homeless people who sleep in their cars can really blight a neighborhood..."

I imagine many people prioritize gilding over people...

[bitchkitty]

56. Taught you patience? They should have

taught you compassion. Your statement is disgusting.

[taught_me_patience]

60. no I'm just honest

I lived in Venice and had to deal with this:



Honestly, would you mind if this was parked in front of your house? Oh yeah... where do you think they dump their sewage?

[KamaAina]

29. "Shallow Alto" pioneered the sit-lie ordinance in the Bay Area

making it a crime to be on the streets.

Now San Francisco has passed one. It came pretty close to passing in Berkeley.

People are understandably tired of the homeless being a permanent fixture on the streets, like newspaper racks. But it's easier to blame the victims than to summon up the political will to actually do something about the problem.

[RKP5637]

34. May those who pass this crap fall into poverty, life can be strange. n/t

[bluedigger]

40. If I had that income and a car, I'd move.

What's the point of living in your car in Palo Alto when there are places to go where you could afford to rent?

[Ash_F]

52. Work...school...family

That one lady had a kid that likely would have been going to school there. Uprooting kids is not always the best thing. People could be between jobs. Or still be working but just be financial trouble. Guess what, there are jobs in rich cities that don't pay well. Ever work at a restaurant? I worked at a five star restaurant and they didn't pay shit.

Not everyone who is homeless has always been homeless or always will be. Especially those who still have their vehicles.

Besides, if one city should outlaw homelessness then why shouldn't they all? Then what? Send them into the wilderness?

[bluedigger]

54. I'm just commenting on this particular individual's circumstances.

I think the ordinance, or whatever, sucks. But in her case, she is on a fixed income drawing disability. I'm assuming that means she isn't working. I don't see how it's in any kid's best interest to be living on the street in a car. Children move and enter new school districts all the time - it isn't necessarily a traumatic event. As for other family, if they can't help her, then she is making an emotional decision, not a rational one. I'm not unsympathetic to her situation, I just think she is making poor decisions, but it's possible there are other factors of which I am not aware.

[Ash_F]

59. What are you, some kind of poor person inquisitor?

Maybe you should go council her if you know exactly what she should do.

You don't know what is going on from just an article.

[bluedigger]

63. She was the person chosen as an example of the injustice of the law.

Am I supposed to do the media's job for them? I'm just commenting on the facts I am given. Maybe I shouldn't ever form any opinion on anyone else's business, and just go about my own.

[Ash_F]

67. Well you sure are adept at judging people.

Maybe you will appreciate this.


From an apparent Palo Alto resident:

"Yes, please enact this and soon. However, police need to watch who they determine is a camper dweller. With all the remodeling going on in this town, many people are parking outside their homes, attached to their home electricity by cords, in order to,avoid noxious fumes, wood dust, freshly refinished floors, etc. the police have been harassing them , too, so let their be no confusion."
http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/show_story.php?id=29734

So they only want the ordinance to apply to specific people. Interesting. I don't know, let me put on my judging hat.

'If you can't afford to spend a couple weeks in a(likely expensive) Palo Alto hotel while you get your house renovated, why are you living in Palo Alto in the first place? I can afford a hotel. QUIT BLIGHTING UP MY NEIGHBORHOOD!'

Am I getting the hang of it?

[olddad56]

41. surprised they didn't tow the cars to Menlo Park.

[KamaAina]

44. Or better still, East Palo Alto.

the closest thing to a ghetto in the area, across the county line; now even it is being gentrified.

[WCLinolVir]

79. Off the bridge!! Just tow them into the mud flats.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

77. Please don't give them any more ideas.

[blkmusclmachine]

45. .

.

[penultimate]

51. I trust that there is plenty of low income housing available in Palo Alto, right?

I mean, that's the only way this would ever make any fucking sense.

[Ash_F]

53. NAH they would rather their coffee servers drive an hour to work

Because gas is so cheap.

[freshwest]

73. The solution to homelessness is public housing, not making it legal or illegal. That requires taxes.

I suspect those applauding the woman dealing with her plight that is not her or her son's fault, do support paying more taxes to help.

But the council members are listening to the 'Don't Tread on Me' and 'Don't Tax Me Bro'!' crowd. They are in every city, county and state.

It's the lack of support for anything with the prefix of 'public' and fear and loathing of 'government' that created this mess. Housing, medical care, food and decent wages ARE class warfare enacted by the evil government upon the rich primarily and they know it, but it appears the majority of people refuse to accept that is what they are asking for in plain language. People are taught by media to appease conservatives.

The philosophy of caring for all comes from that place in the heart and through unity, the spirit which holds that our government's mission is to equal the playing field, and that place only. All the government hatred comes from the same place, the 1%, who will resist being taxed. When people call for going after the rich, they should first use the method that has worked in this country for over half a century, and it was taxing the hell out of those who made money off the wars.

Taxing them is storming the castle and reclaiming stolen loot. Instead we have the Grovers and Libertarians calling all taxation 'tyranny' and demonizing the evil government daily. They are both speaking for the 1% and too many have bought the shiny things dangled in front of them and ignored the 'hand' behind the media.

With $1,200 a month and subsidized housing, medical care and food, this woman would not be reduced to begging in a council meeting for the right to an unhealthy and unsafe solution such as sleeping in a car. This is not a sudden crisis, other avenues should have been offered. In my area, the evil government is working hard to inform and give people the options this woman is not getting. This didn't just happen on this one day, and people there have been wearing blinders for some time.

Thinking long-term, we must support those in government who give her $1,200 a month and are working on providing her food, shelter and medical care. The Palo Alto city council is not doing that.

[hrmjustin]

75. Disgusting new law!

[AnotherMcIntosh]

76. Why doesn't Palo Alto just pass an Affordable House Act and compel those in Palo Alto to purchase

houses.

The Affordable Care Act provides a perfect model.

[jasond54231]

80. That's just cold

Homeless people are human beings, like you or me, and should be treated fairly. How could such a measure pass in the first place?

[hunter]

92. Nastiest I ever experinced was Santa Monica, early 'eighties. Thankfully my car worked...

...I could drive away when they were done harassing me.

In another city (I won't name it) my car wasn't working and I was being harassed, but by police who were more amused than nasty. I was more fun than the usual sordid stuff they dealt with. I never threw up in their cars, and I was never violent. But the law is the law, so I pushed into a church parking lot and sought refuge.

The Pastor of the church offered me an actual room but I was pretty messed up so I stayed in my car for a few weeks until I got my head together.

No drugs, no alcohol, I was just crazy.

Modern crazy meds are excellent and I can afford them.

There's a lot of people living on the streets who have never had the opportunities I've had to put their lives back together.