Obama to Attend G20 Summit in St. Petersburg
Source: Moscow Times
President Barack Obama has confirmed his intention to attend the Group of Twenty summit in St. Petersburg in September, but reproached Russia for its "Cold War mentality."
Speaking on NBC's "The Tonight Show" hosted by Jay Leno, Obama, however, praised Moscow for being cooperative on some matters.
"There are times when they [the Russian government] slip back into Cold War thinking and Cold War mentality. What I continually say to them and to President [Vladimir] Putin: That's the past," the US president told the host.
"There's no reason why we shouldn't be able to cooperate more effectively than we do," he said.
Read more: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/obama-to-attend-g20-summit-in-st-petersburg/484200.html
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joshcryer
(62,270 posts)
Fearless
(18,421 posts)Only way I can find that Russia isn't cooperating with the US government that would annoy him enough to say it on tv.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)Snowden = Cold War level shit?
Really?
C'mon. That's insane.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Russia is a World power. It is not another North Korea or even another Iran. We can not hope to simply isolate them economically and diplomatically because we happen to disagree in regard to international affairs.
For example: How can we hope to ever end the bloodshed in Syria unless we act in coordination with the Russian government? Unless we are prepared to both fight and win a region-wide ground war in the Middle-East, we will need Russia's help.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)may have been to rename the G19 and tell the US to go whistle.
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)But Russia is the one that should be gone.
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)And kick Russia out of the G-20 until they can guarantee civil rights for their citizens.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Needs to be the G19 with the US out on its own with a G1.
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)Has state sponsored terrorism against Gays?
Your anti-Americanism is disgusting.
You don't give a shit about people - you just want to score cheap anti-American political points.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)and I suggest you research exactly what Russia has done.
That is not a defense of Russia.
You also need to review the purpose / remit of the G20.
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)And anyone that gave a damn about gay rights would be appalled.
Did you know now in Russia they are beating, torturing and killing gays, just because they are gay? State-sponsored.
And I know what the G-20 is for - and Russia has no place in it.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)And that about the 3rd time that's been posted here on DU to separate fact from fiction.
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)You are fucking incredible.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)to the most recent change in their law because it was that which promoted discussion here and elsewhere on this subject.
The RT link I used was a convenient one - no more than that.
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)I suggest you browse the many topics in the LGBT forum that clearly show the anti-gay pogrom going on currently in Russia
What I asked you to do, since you don't agree with the RT article , was a post a an alternative link to the specific recent change in Russia's law on this subject. Not what some may have interpreted it to be .
Please now do so for there is other wise no sense in continuing this conversation.
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Johnny is innocent, it says so on his own website!
William769
(55,146 posts)It can be posted a thousands times and it will still be a piece of shit.
President Obama has spoken out about whats going on with the LGBT community, the ACLU has spoken out just about every credible news agency has spoken out. Let alone European leaders.
I highly suggest you find a credible news source.
P.S. those are the facts.
emulatorloo
(44,120 posts)joshcryer
(62,270 posts)You're about to be surprised about how the weasel language here is hidden behind minimalist language in order to distract from the overarching issue.
No. Homosexuality was decriminalized in 1993. In the Soviet Union, “male buggery” had been a punishable offense since 1934, with several hundred people charged with it every year. The maximum term was five years. It was also a convenient tool for smears and was tacked onto spying allegations during the NKVD purges under Joseph Stalin. Lesbianism has never been criminalized.
First they say no, it's not a crime at all, then they talk about the punishment under the Soviets. Then they say it was used as a smear. Not that the current law cannot be used that way, but that another more oppressive law was at some point in the past used as a smear. So they basically minimize the impacts of the law, while hiding under the realities of the previous law. It's a nice trick, a reasonable person might read it and say "Hmm, it's not a crime, and under the previous law people used it to smear others, so it's implied that the new law doesn't allow anyone to smear, still." Of course, that's absolutely not a given, and absolutely not factual because we already have documented incidents where people have been smeared by the law.
A law was passed earlier this summer that levies a fine of up to 50,000 rubles (about $1,500 dollars) on any individuals, and up to 1 million rubles (about $30,000) on any organizations engaged in “propaganda of non-traditional relationships to minors”. Non-traditional sexual relationships were informally defined by the lawmakers as those that cannot lead to the production of offspring. What constitutes propaganda is also unclear.
At the time, the head of Russia’s Human Rights Council Mikhail Fedotov criticized the ill-defined and overly-broad terms in the law, and also said that it created a dangerous precedent by “treating people differently based on their personal characteristics, not any criminal behavior.”
Now this is where the whole thing already starts to fall apart. They separate out the fact that the actual bill actually says that foreigners may spend up to 15 days in jail, as well as deportation, which has already happened once. Though in that case the charges were dropped the documentarians were still banned for three years from Russia and had to pay the fine.
Not only that, for individuals they outline the utter lowest penalty that exists. Individuals get the same penalties as officials if they use the internet or mass media to express pro-gay sentiments. This means a gay person walking down the street with their iPhone who is harassed by good law upholding citizens and has their phone taken away can easily be pinned as a homosexual propagandist and be fined 50-100k rubles. But don't worry, right, because the rules are unclear.
If it was a non-crime there would simply be no penalties whatsoever. They hide the utter severity of the new law under the phrase "what constitutes propaganda is also unclear." A reasonable person coming to the table with some bit of skepticism might say, "ahh, so it's just being overblown." Except that simply is not the case.
Of course, they throw in the whole, "but it's a broad definition" to appeal to left wing sentiments abroad, as if that helps the article one fucking bit.
Yes. As well as paying the stated fines, any foreigners are automatically deported after committing this offense and may be arrested, but not necessarily, for up to 15 days.
Except the fines on foreigners go up to that of 100k rubles if they use the internet to spread their evil gay propaganda message. Arrest itself is actually if they can't pay up, it's an either or. "Pay 4k or 5k or 100k rubles or go to jail for 15 days." They don't say this because they don't want to make mention of the internet anywhere in this article and how the use of the internet or social media (twitter, facebook, whatever) as a tool to "spread propaganda" is the key way that they're going to silence and destroy gay activism.
Several Russian activists had been fined as a result of previous, regional incarnations of this legislation, and dozens have been detained since the federal law came into power, including during protests against the new legislation. In July, a Dutch documentary crew became the first foreigners to be charged with violating the new propaganda law, after Murmansk police found tapes of them asking teenagers about their attitudes to homosexuality. The charges were later dropped.
Wow, what a total fabrication at the end there. They talk about how the charges were dropped on the arrested foreigners. Except those foreigners were banned from Russia for 3 years and will be unable to complete their documentary as well as having to pay a 3k ruble fine (so the charges get "dropped" if you pay the fine).
Nevermind that RT doesn't mention a damn thing about how their hard earned documentary footage was confiscated and not returned to them (how much in actual monetary terms could that be?).
The Russian law against “gay propaganda” is not going to apply to the participants and guests of the Sochi 2014 Winter Olympics, according to Igor Ananskikh, the head of the Russian Duma Committee on physical training, sports and youth. The International Olympic Committee said that it “received assurances from the highest level of government in Russia that the legislation will not affect those attending or taking part in the Games” in a statement made to several media outlets.
Meanwhile Russian sports minister Vitaly Mutko said: "No one is forbidding an athlete with non-traditional sexual orientation from coming to Sochi, but if he goes onto the street and starts propagandizing it, then of course he will be held accountable."
Now, anyone reading this with any bit of sense must know that this is an absolute contradiction and pure propaganda in its own right. Of course "it won't apply to the participants and guests" because they have been instructed by the IOC that they will ban anyone who violates the law.
It's a setup. You can be gay you just can't act gay, get it? No bans for gay people just people who "act gay" or "spread gay propaganda." Dumbasses. It's the DADT of the Olympics. Imagine the potential crackdown on the Olympic Village if openly gay individuals decided to waltz right out of there and go down to a pub or something while dressed in gay regalia and being affectionate to one another. It won't happen because the IOC is likely creating instructions to tell gay people not to demonstrate or express their "evil gayness." I expect we'll even hear more about the oppressive nature of the IOC as we move forward here. It's not going to end well I think because Western and European gays aren't going to sit down and shut up. Civil rights demonstrations at the Olympics are not unheard of and you will expect it in the future.
After several one-offs refusals to let them go ahead, and unsanctioned protest rallies, Moscow’s local parliament banned gay demonstrations for a 100 years in 2011, and again in 2012. They have been allowed to take place in St. Petersburg under the guise of human rights demonstrations. These have inevitably ended in bloodshed, as LGBT campaigners have been outnumbered by religious and radical right-wing counter-protesters, with police having to separate the groups. Whether Gay Pride marches should be held at all in such a febrile atmosphere has been a hotly-debated topic among Russia’s gay community.
Aww, the poor right wingers have been allowed to beat up on gays so we should basically not allow the gays their right to express themselves because it's just a hotly-debated topic and we should all be sensitive to the asshole right wingers who have ended these pro-freedom demonstrations in bloodshed. Rather than, you know, protect the rights of the gays to protest and to crack down on the very fucking right wingers that are causing the issues to begin with. No, instead, we'll pander to the fucking right wingers and ban gay demonstrations for 100 years! That's just how wonderful and kind we are.
Seriously, this is what they just said here. They try, feably, to cover up their utter and complete nonsense by saying "Whether Gay Pride marches should be held at all in such a ferbile atmosphere has been a hotly-debated topic among Russia's gay community." Hahaha! As if the gay community has questioned its own right to self-determination! What a fucking piece of shit thing to say! Looking at the pictures coming out of the crackdowns it's obvious who the real targets are, and it's not the right wingers.
A proper article will point out the failure of the police to protect gay rights marchers and the crackdown of police on gay rights marchers. But this is RT we're talking about here...
According to a May survey conducted by Levada Center, only 21 percent of Russians believe that homosexuality is a sexual orientation people are born with. Forty five percent believe that it is a result of “being subjected to perversion or loose personal morals”, with 20 more believing that it is both a result of circumstances and nature. More than half of Russians believe that homosexuality should be either punished by law (13 percent) or treated medically (38 percent). According to a survey conducted shortly after the gay propaganda law was passed by Levada, 76 percent of Russians support it.
But, see, it's all OK because the majority of Russians are against gays. (Read that other RT article and try to spot the propaganda there, it's really riddled with it.)
Except, the long term trend, as it is in every developing country on the planet, is that gay Russian sentiment is moving toward acceptance. It's the laws and the way Russian LGBT people are treated that is changing, not the sentiment of Russians as a whole. Only 12% supported gays in 1989. That grew to 29% by 1994. In fact, going further, it's clear that most Russians don't give a shit about homosexuality and that most of it is a propaganda tactic in and of itself, much like how abortion and welfare and reverse racism and such were used in the United States.
The real reason that this legislation is being written up now is that Putin's war on gays is instrumental toward his future survival. United Russia is a right wing group that is ardently nationalist and anti-gay. Left wing activists are sympathetic to gays so the 2012-2013 protesters would be composed of those who are for gay rights and against Putin and his right wing party. The other laws passed in the last few years indicate, indeed, that the anti-gay laws are simply the right wingers shoring up any sort of resistance from the left, as opposed to some kind of morality laws that the Russian people actually want.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)joshcryer
(62,270 posts)Just FYI.
cstanleytech
(26,291 posts)Andrei Lugovoi who is wanted for the murder of Alexander Litvinenko in the UK?
Fearless
(18,421 posts)Answer me this question:
Why were laws changed in Russia regarding homosexuality?
Agreed. There is some seriously bad stuff happening to people in Russia right now.
I'm saddened to see this being dismissed as *It's not that bad*
It is that bad, and it looks like it is going to get worse.
I've got no problem with Obama canceling a summit with Putin.