Cuba's Fidel Castro: didn't expect to live to 87

[alp227]

Source: AP

Fidel Castro says he didn't expect he'd live long enough to turn 87 this week after grave illness forced him from office in 2006, according to an essay carried by official media Wednesday.

In a long, wide-ranging article taking up three pages of Communist Party newspaper Granma, Castro, whose birthday was Tuesday, wrote about being stricken with a near-fatal intestinal ailment on July 26, 2006.

"As soon as I understood that it would be definitive I did not hesitate to cease my charges as president ... and I proposed that the person designated to exercise that task proceed immediately to take it up," the retired leader said, referring to his successor and younger brother Raul Castro.

"I was far from imagining that my life would be prolonged seven more years," he added.

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/fidel-castro-says-didnt-expect-live-long

[Mika]

1. Viva Cuba!

[dbackjon]

3. Do you Viva Russia as well?

Castro was far worse towards gays in the 60's through the 90's than Russia is today.


Cuba today is far better, but no thanks to Fidel - his niece and brother get credit for that.

[Mika]

7. No. Silly question.

Homophobia was (and still is) rampant throughout the Latin Americas and Caribbean. Cuba is one of the more progressive nations now. Much of the reporting of homophobia in Cuba is overblown - for anti Cuba political reasons. Having lived there in the 80's & 90's I do know this to be a fact, despite your knee jerking reaction.

[dbackjon]

8. So when the gay HIV postive patients were rounded up and put into concentration camps

That never happened?

[Mika]

10. No it didn't.

Some were arrested - due to rampant homophobia in the police forces.
The "concentration" camps you refer to were the sanatoriums for the treatment of gay and straight AIDS patients prior to the understanding and development of HIV treatment and transmission mitigation, after Cuban troops returned from Angola with HIV infections.

[dbackjon]

11. But they had no choice to go there.

[Mika]

13. For some, true.

It took some time for transmission modalities to become known, but sexual transmission was a primary suspect early on. The intransigent sexual transmitters were put in sanatoriums (not jails, as they do in the US) for treatment and education on the lethality of their intransigent sexual conduct - gay and straight. The Cuban ministry of health was very quick to realize that HIV was not a "gay disease" (unlike the US's Reagan era dept of health, which went after gays, Haitians, etc)). It could have become an epidemic and would have overwhelmed their national health care system if rapid development of understanding wasn't undertaken.
The sanatoriums were created by the Ministry of Health specifically for the treatment of HIV positive, and very ill patients - both gay and straight.
Despite the anti Cuba rhetoric, Cuba was and still is a leader in care and treatment for HIV positive patients, and Cuba has THE LOWEST transmission rates of HIV in the Western hemisphere because of their advanced sexual health education programs.

I should note again that I lived there during some of this scary time, and I am also a doctor.
Cheers.

[dbackjon]

15. Interesting

Cuba of today is different than Fidel's Cuba of the post revolution. I don't hate Fidel, nor hold him to be a hero.

Gay Cubans that I have talked to (both in and out of Cuba) never painted such a rosy picture of the treatment of gays in Cuba until recently.

He did some good things, and some bad things. Lifted the poor up, but was still a dictator (who replaced a right-wing dictator).

I had a Cuba trip planned several years ago (scientific in nature), but was cancelled. I still would like to go there.

[Mika]

17. Fidel Castro was elected as Head of State in 1976.

Educate yourself, rather than mewling the party line (of both US parties). In 1976 Cuba reorganized its gov't system to a variant parliamentary system. Fidel Castro was elected to parliament representing Santiago de Cuba District 17.


http://www.answers.com/topic/osvaldo-dorticos

[dbackjon]

19. Sounds that is what you are doing

An Election proves nothing. He came into power via a coup, and ruled as a dictator, before and after.

the Cuban embargo never should have happened, and needs to end today. That really isn't following the party line now is it.

[Mika]

21. Sorry to be out of step with US popular right-think.

Fidel Castro never ruled as a dictator (whatever your "before and after" means).
By all means, educate yourself.
As far as the US extraterritorial sanctions against those corporations and people who seek to do business in Cuba, both the for and against factions exist within both US political parties.

An election proves nothing? Hmmm.


This is a good starting point for your edification ...



You can get it at Amazon for cheap.

Also, this DU thread might help shed some light on this topic IF you really are interested...

Electoral Process Continues Smoothly Nationwide (Election season kickoff in Cuba)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x31936

[malaise]

30. School them sis

[dbackjon]

32. I am not a sis

Cuba does not have free elections. They are not a democracy They are a dictatorship.

[malaise]

34. At least they are not a plutocracy

if you know what I mean

[joshcryer]

27. Elections in Cuba:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11085466

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Cuba

You can't campaign.

You have a yes or no vote, there is no other or write in. You are given a candidate and you vote yes or no for that candidate. You cannot discuss policy with said candidates nor can said candidates express what policies they support for Cuba.

Cuba is a de facto Single Party State. And we complain about having a two party state here.

[dbackjon]

33. Simple concept

That the Cuban/Russian/Ven fan club do not understand

[Mika]

37. 'Tis you who doesn't understand the Cuba system.

Ridiculous slam by grouping the "Cuban/Russian/Ven fan club" as one. Dishonest also.

[Mika]

36. Your summary is near completely untrue.

"You are given a candidate and you vote yes or no for that candidate."


I assume that you are referring to the RATIFICATION vote, after the multi-candidate elections.
The ratification election is to ratify the candidate to the seat they were elected to by a majority (at least 50% +1) of the constituents in said district.

Nice try, but your post is misleading. You and I have been over this before - why pull this canard out yet again?

[joshcryer]

129. You've yet to convince me about Candidacy Commissions.

Mainly because I know it's a bunch of bullshit. I know how these types of hierarchical systems work.

You make it seem like everyone gets to go to an assembly and discuss policy and platforms openly and whoever is chosen gets to be nominated and have their name on the ballot. That's simply not the case.

The final list of candidates, which corresponds to the number of seats to be filled, is drawn up by the National Candidature Commission taking into account criteria such as candidates' merit, patriotism, ethical values and revolutionary history.

Yoani for example could never be nominated, despite that her tour of the world showed her revolutionary fervor.

[Mika]

136. Huh?

"You make it seem like everyone gets to go to an assembly and discuss policy and platforms openly and whoever is chosen gets to be nominated and have their name on the ballot. That's simply not the case. "

I said no such thing. If that's how you misinterpret my comments, that's your issue.

The final list of candidates you are referring to is the list of elected candidates who have yet to be ratified in the ratification election.

No, Yoani isn't popular at all in Cuba. She's flip flopped so many times she is a laughing stock... not to mention that some of her funding comes from avowed enemies of Cuba.

[joshcryer]

137. So you agree that the Candidacy Commissions are the final say?

Not the nominating assemblies?

[Mika]

154. Candidacy Commissions determine the elegibility of the elected candidate for the Ratification.

You know, things like confirming their residency in the district, confirming that their campaign followed election law, etc. Since NO PARTY does this, the non-partisan candidacy commissions do so.

Nominating sessions are undertaken by citizens and organized (locations, times, etc) at the district CDR by the local elected CDR workers.

Of course, you know this. Right?

You see, I've been there and watched this process closely. With great interest I've attended nomination sessions and watched the entire process in several districts. It wasn't what I expected. MUCH more open process than back-room wheeling and dealing by party honchos that goes on in Florida (for example).

[hack89]

161. And the result is a single candidate for each national office.

and if a name is rejected, the Candidate Commission and only the Candidate Commission can provide a substitute name. And the end result is a single name on the ballot.

Why can't more than one eligible candidate be on the ballot? What is wrong with competitive elections?

[hack89]

31. Nearly every dicatorship has the trappings of democracy

let me know when a candidate from a genuine opposition party is elected.

[Mika]

38. Candidates are not selected by parties, nor along party lines.

Candidates are selected by the citizens, based on their platforms, not party affiliation. I've provided links above.

[hack89]

39. So show me someone that has run in opposition to the Communist Party platform

someone who is at the other end of the political spectrum than Castro.

Show me an active political opposition that can publicity question the ruling party.

Should be easy for you do do.

[Mika]

41. Educate yourself. Start with Oswaldo Paya's Christian Democratic Party.

Representative Fidel Castro was elected to the National Assembly as a representative of District #7 Santiago de Cuba.

Here's a list of some of the other candidates on the 2003 slate for Santiago de Cuba (Castro's home district).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4653650&mesg_id=4653730

Some of the political parties in Cuba

http://www.gksoft.com/govt/en/cu.html
* Partido Comunista de Cuba (PCC) {Communist Party of Cuba}
* Partido Demócrata Cristiano de Cuba (PDC) {Christian Democratic Party of Cuba} - Oswaldo Paya's Catholic party
* Partido Solidaridad Democrática (PSD) {Democratic Solidarity Party}
* Partido Social Revolucionario Democrático Cubano {Cuban Social Revolutionary Democratic Party}
* Coordinadora Social Demócrata de Cuba (CSDC) {Social Democratic Coordination of Cuba}
* Unión Liberal Cubana {Cuban Liberal Union}

[hack89]

42. So a guy locked out of the political process is the best you have?

However, the Varela Project was ultimately unsuccessful, as the government launched its own petition drive to declare the socialist state "irrevocable".[10] During the 2003 crackdown popularly known as the Black Spring, MCL members would comprise around 40 of the 75 defendants, though Payá himself was not arrested.[17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswaldo_Pay%C3%A1

Show me someone who has run for office on an anti-government platform and was allowed on the ballot. Show me a true political opposition.

[Mika]

44. Go there and see for yourself.

Nothing I say here will be enough for you. You and I have been over and over this, your intransigence is of record.
All I can suggest is that you get yourself over there, live there during an entire election season (as I have) and learn for yourself. You'll be pleasantly surprised (that is, IF you care about Cubans IN Cuba, and their sovereignty, as I do).

[hack89]

45. You have an endless supply of links. Surely one of them can show me an anti-government politician

that was allowed ballot access in Cuba.

If the Cuban political process is as open as you say it is, I don't need to go there. I could visit the web sites of the various political parties. I could visit their version of Democratic Underground in engage in political discussions. Yet I can't. Why is that?

[brooklynite]

46. EVERY election is free and fair...

...just look at Zimbabwe.

[Mika]

49. Just look at the US of A.

Better to clean your own backyard before criticizing others for their faults.

[Judi Lynn]

55. The subject is Cuba, isn't it? Un poco de Alzheimer's? n/t

[Mika]

50. Why would an anti gov't candidate be selected by the people to represent them in gov't?

Your post reads like US Tea Party madness.

[hack89]

52. It happens all the time in democracies all over the world.

can you show a single person who has run for office in Cuba on an anti-socialist platform? Surely an open society with free elections would allow them to at least try.

[Mika]

53. I already posted a list of such candidates.

You really must try to keep up with the conversation. Try reading my posts and links before more nonsensicle (sic) pronouncements on a subject you know nothing of.

[hack89]

56. Not one of them ran on an anti-socialist, anti-Castro platform. Not one. nt

[Mika]

58. Because no anti Castro/anti socialist candidate was nominated by the people.

FYI, one has to be nominated by popular vote of the citizenry to become a candidate. Cubans in Cuba like their socialism, and they (by and large) like and respect their Revolutionaries. NO ONE in Cuba would be nominated on such a platform as you imagine.

[hack89]

73. So there is no room for a minority views in Cuba?

would you support such a system in America?

[Mika]

76. Cubans are FAR from being in lock-step.

Each community has its own flavor, and its own flavor of diverse representatives, who enjoin the 3 levels of Cuban Assemblies.

You can only ask me such a question from a position of vacuous ignorance.

[hack89]

82. You are the one supporting a single party system

one that systematically excludes opposing views.

The irony is that you would never tolerate such a system in America.

[Mika]

89. Where do I "support" this?

Cuba has NO PARTY elections to the Assemblies. Citizens run and citizens select candidates, not parties.

Making observations on the Cuban system, based on actual experience, is not tantamount to my supporting said system.

Clearly, you are clueless on this topic, and uninterested in any pedagogical discussion of it.

[hack89]

88. Would you support such a system in America?

how would competitive elections be possible?

[Mika]

93. Every democratic nation has their own idiosyncratic anomalies.

I don't see much howling about the dictator for life of England... Elizabeth Windsor.

[hack89]

101. So Castro is the equivalent of unelected royalty? First honest thing you have said.

of course you are glossing over the not so minor point that under her reign, both liberal and conservative governments have held power. Can't say the same about Cuba.

[Mika]

103. Where do I say that? Your red herrings are simply stupid.

[hack89]

107. Only dictators or royalty rule for life. Don't see Castro wearing a crown. nt

[Mika]

110. Don't see Castro "ruling" for life, either.

I guess this might be time for a thread on mandatory term limits?

[hack89]

112. Sure - he just walked away from power and has nothing to do with the Cuban state.

got it.

[Mika]

114. The Castros are Cuba's revered Revolutionary heroes. The Cuban people will listen to what ...

... they have to say, and take it into consideration. Whether in official capacity or not.

You'll just have to deal with that fact.

[hack89]

117. He was (and is) an unelected, undemocratic strong man

who seized power at gun point and proceeded to enrich himself and his cronies at the expense of the people.

[Mika]

119. Go tell that to Cubans in Santiago.

They'll laugh in your know-nothing face at your ignorance.

[hack89]

120. ok nt

[Judi Lynn]

123. I remember the first time I heard about the young men in Santiago de Cuba under Batista,

when his government was sending out death squads, like Masferrer's Tigres, who kidnapped them, tortured them, and sometimes hung their quartered bodies from trees as a terror tactic to paralyze the people of Santiago with fear.

Remember hearing about the mothers of the young people getting together on a day the US ambassador was scheduled to be in that city, and they marched down the street with signs, banners to see the ambassador, to beg him to intercede with Batista and get him to stop murdering that generation, for chrissakes.

As soon as they got to the ambassador, the Santiago police came running out with the fire hoses and hosed them down, just the way they were blowing down civil rights activists on the streets in the South U.S. of A.

Really strange.

[center]





"Stop the assassination of our sons"

Mothers of Santiago



[/center]
An article witten during the Revolution by New York Times correspondant, Herbert Matthews:

New York Times
June 10, 1957.pp. 1, 10.

Populace in Revolt in Santiago de Cuba
By Herbert L. Matthews

Special to The New York Times

SANTIAGO DE CUBA, June 9 – This is a city in open revolt against President Fulgencio Batista.No other description could fit the fact that virtually every man, woman, and child in Santiago de Cuba, except police and army authorities, are struggling at all costs to themselves to overthrow the military dictatorship in Havana.
What applies to Santiago de Cuba can be applied with much the same terms to the whole province of Oriente, at least the eastern end of the island.It is the most heavily populated and fertile region of Cuba, and is traditionally the home of the struggle for Cuban liberty.If Havana had anything like the civic resistance movement of Santiago de Cuba, the Batista regime might have ended a long time ago.

~snip~
Four Youths Slain
The worst act of terror, which the Santiagueros universally attribute to the police, occurred the night of May 27.The morning after, the bodies of four youths were found hanging from trees, two on one side of the city and two on an other.They had been tortured, stabbed and shot before they were strung up.
This caused such a sense of horror and revulsion that a large group of women of the city prepared last Sunday for a demonstration of protest, gathering first for a mass in the cathedral.A number of policemen, armed with submachine guns, were sent into the church to walk around and intimidate the women.The maneuver failed, but when the women tried to form a parade, it was roughly broken up, witnesses said.

Two mothers of the slain youths arranged to see this correspondent secretly late one night, along with some parents and relatives of other youths slain, as the relatives believe, by the police.At the last minute the relatives sent word that the police had threatened them with dire consequences if they talked too much.

However, many other persons have come forth, either openly or secretly, to tell of incidents.The risk was considerable for all such persons, for the police had been trying to keep the closest watch on this correspondent from the moment of his arrival three days ago.

Many Come Forth
Yet representatives of virtually every element of Santiago de Cuba’s society—business and professional groups, workers and trade union leaders, all the lay Catholic organizations, a delegation representing peasants and civic organizations from outside the city, students, the rector of the University of Oriente and his entire professional council and the Rotary, Lions and other civic organizations—did make contact with this correspondent.
Many of the leading citizens came in person or sent invitations to their homes.Dozens of humble persons accosted me on the streets and elsewhere to shake hands, partly to thank The New York Times for what is considered its effort to present the truth about Cuba in its news and editorial columns, and partly as a gesture of defiance against the authorities.

More:
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cuban-rebels/NYT-6-10-57.htm

[Mika]

156. Thanks for the post, Judi.

The only hope for the return of US hegemonic rule of Cuba is for the younger generations of Cubans to forget what really happened that spawned the Cuban Revolution. It's not like Americans care much about the impacts of US hegemony - except that it brings wealth to the corporatist 1%, and shiny new things into their lives. Ignoring the US backed death squads is easy.

[hack89]

90. Would you support Republicans deciding which Democrats could be on the ballot?

in the Red part of America, wouldn't that be the result of nomination by popular vote of the citizenry?

[Mika]

95. Of course not. But, that isn't the case in Cuba.

Nominations of candidates precedes elections. In many districts there are dozens of diverse nominees who run for election of the same seat.

Before asking more ridiculously ignorant questions, do some real research on this topic.

[hack89]

99. So you can show me that their system provides equal ballot access to a wide variety of views?

can you show a single instance of some one opposing the government being on a ballot in Cuba? Just one.

[brooklynite]

57. "Anti Government" doesn't mean "no Government"

It means you're opposed to the Government as constituted at the time. See: Democrats-2006.

[Mika]

61. If persons who ran on such a platform were popular, they'd be nominated as a candidate.

Problem is, anti socialism platforms are just not popular in Cuba.

Obviously, Cubans do select new candidates, vote for them, and they do assume office in the 3 levels of Assemblies. That is how they change the gov't "as constituted at the time".
How is that so hard for you to comprehend? The Cuban gov't changes every election season.

[Judi Lynn]

132. Right wingers are not going to understand anything which isn't beneficial to them.

Their own power madness won't accept the fact ANY country anywhere, and most clearly in this hemisphere, can be allowed its own independence.

Yet they drag their oversized butts here to the D.U.. to howl about the lack of democracy, as they envision it, after sucking up plenteous propaganda crap from the right-wing-controlled corporate media, in a country which fought so hard to overthrow the US-supported bloody, torture-happy, vicious, corrupt Fugencio Batista.

[Mika]

138. Yep. Cubans in Cuba are lazy, uninformed, prone to dictatorship, etc etc.

^^^

It is hard to understand Cuba without ever have spent some quality time there. Like, during election season.

[joshcryer]

140. Eliezer Avila could get nominated.

Problem is his daddy caused a ruckus and he'd be shut down from being able to be a candidate. So his nomination would be in question and people would be afraid to openly nominate someone who challenges the status quo like him.

Eliezer Avila is not anti-socialist, nor is Yoani for that matter.

The provincial assembly delegates do change each election but they keep at least half of previously elected delegates each time (this requirement is a guarantee that the status quo remains intact).

The Cuban electoral system is basically the same as Soviet Russia's with the major exception that the Soviets limited who could be in the party (nomenklatura) but Cuba regards CPC as the only legitimate party and the results are not significantly different.

[Mika]

51. Ballot access? Candidates are nominated by the people, not parties.

The access to run as a candidate belongs to ALL Cubans over 16 years old. One small detail ... they/their platform have to have popular support to be nominated by citizens in open candidate selection meetings.

I have attended such meetings and witnessed ordinary citizens being nominated by their fellow citizens to run against other citizen candidates on the slate.

Your questions prove out that you don't know anything about the Cuban electoral system. Go educate yourself, I posted a great book, up-thread, that makes for a great starting point in your education (that is, IF you really are interested).

[hack89]

54. So people can garnered popular support through web sites, access to newspapers and tv

and other means of expression? People have the unfettered ability to convince the people that they deserve to be nominated - right?

[Mika]

63. Not unfettered. Like most countries, their are limitations on the duration of campaigns. 6 weeks.

Internet is very expensive in Cuba, not many Cubans can afford it, so it isn't really that cost effective to campaign in that way, as of now.
Candidates do publish their platforms, and local newspapers do report on the various politicing by candidates.

You don't know this because you appear to not know ANYTHING about the Cuban electoral process.

[hack89]

74. So direct me to the Cuban DU so I can talk directly to Cubans

and let them tell me how their system works.

[Mika]

77. OK.

It's called Cuba. Go and talk to them. Only one hitch ... YOUR US gov't restricts your freedom to do so.

[hack89]

83. So Cuba is not part of the global digital world?

how unfortunate.

[Mika]

91. It has only connected to the WWW by fiberoptic cable recently.

What has taken so long was US sanctions on Cuba. Indeed, how unfortunate.
Ludicrous is blaming Cuba for the impediments put upon them by the USA.

[hack89]

94. So now Cubans can join us here at DU to discuss politics?

and we can visit the Cuban DU? Cool.

[Mika]

97. Too expensive, for now.

Do you know how much it costs to run DU?

[hack89]

104. You would think the government would subsidize internet access

considering the vital role it plays in modern economies. But then there is the issue of uncontrolled access to information that they have a problem with.

[Mika]

106. When did you take up mind reading of the Cuba gov't?

I suppose that you think that full infrastructures for the internet happens overnight?
Heck, that US can't even maintain its own bridges infrastructure


http://www.lecet.org/mura/lecet/index.cfm/resources/blog/how-many-dangerous-bridges-did-you-cross-today/

[hack89]

109. Free speech does not require the internet.

Cuba has never had free speech. It is not hard to guess that Cubans will never have uncontrolled access to the internet.

[Mika]

111. And you've been there when?

For someone who knows nearly zero about Cuba, you sure are good at making uninformed pronouncements about the place and the people who live there.

SOP... When in doubt, you just make shit up.

[hack89]

113. So Cuba has free speech? Really. nt

[Mika]

115. Often, Cubans in Cuba are ignored... mostly by Americans. eom

[joshcryer]

133. Correct.

I have already explained to Mika how, for a few million dollars, the entire island could be hooked up. I even explained that Cuba's own private intranet has exploded in users (but it has no access to the outside internet). I pointed out simply connecting that intranet to the internet would be very easy from a networking perspective. Mika rebuffed me and told me it wouldn't happen.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11088438

[Mika]

144. Huh? Is that link supposed to show that I rebuffed your suggestion? It doesn't.

Is one of your sock puppets "physioex"? Because that is who I was discussing it with in that thread you posted a link to.

Hmmm.

[joshcryer]

147. Look at the bottom of the thread.

Where I suggested they hook it to the intranet, you said it wasn't so simple, but with an intranet that has millions of people, I find that unlikely.

I also mentioned the wireless bridges idea to you on numerous occasions, to my recollection.

[Mika]

149. Still, no rebuffing by me. More of your just-make-shit-up tactic.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

84. Mika, you're a gem.

Far more patient than I'd ever be.
It's funny, actually, that Castro's lived this long. I'm sure no one thought he would back in the Sixties. But here we are.
Cuba, as you pointed out, is one of the very few truly progressive Latin American countries. And the only one who manages it while being completely autonomous vis-a-vis US influence, a feat made more amazing by the fact you can practically see it from Key West. (Sarah Palin, where are you???)
They have the economic problem I almost always point out far as Latin America is concerned, but I respect Castro far too much to point it out here. He's the only Latin leader I truly admire. I respect Lula, but I admire Castro unreservedly.

[joshcryer]

130. You can talk to Cubans here:

Dissidents: http://translatingcuba.com/

Revolutionaries: http://www.cubadebate.cu/

Have fun. The revolutionaries are a deluded bunch. If you get into a discussion with them about certain aspects of the society they will recite regurgitated BS that doesn't indicate an iota of free agency on their behalf. In some ways I think they're paid or just copy pasting the BS.

[MADem]

121. He was more than "locked out"--he was murdered by the state.

Mr. Payá was no friend to the Castro-hating Cuban contingent, either--he refused to take a dime from them, and wouldn't let them use him to their ends. He was, indeed, a 'patriot,' and he was murdered by the Castro regime for his trouble.

http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/07/25/requiem_for_a_cuban_patriot

Oswaldo Payá was a Cuban patriot, best known for his spearheading the Varela Project, named after a famous Cuban clergyman and independence advocate, which used provisions of Castro's own constitution to challenge the lack of basic civil and human rights in Cuba, for which he collected some 11,000 signatures on the island.

Humiliated, the regime could not do anything but expressly violate its own constitution by ignoring Payá's petition and staging yet another mass mobilization to convince no one "the people" were united behind the Castro regime. For this effort, Payá was awarded the European Union's Sakharov Prize for Freedom of Thought.

Payá, a devout Catholic, was his own man, beholden to no one. He was never cowed by the regime's incessant harassment and intimidation tactics, and he would diverge from prevalent thought in the Cuban exile community. He once wrote in the Miami Herald, "Lifting the embargo won't solve the problems of the Cuban people. Maintaining it is no solution, either."....In this country, one hopes that Payá's sacrifice can have some effect on the thinking of critics of U.S. policy. Payá was everything their caricature of Cuban dissidents was not; he did not receive official U.S. support, he would criticize U.S. policy and exile opinion when he believed it necessary, and he tried to affect reform working within the system -- something even former President Jimmy Carter supported.

And still it did not protect him from the regime's wrath. The question those critics ought to be asking themselves now is, where do we go from here?

[Mika]

165. Posting rabid anti Cuban AEI blogs?

You expect informed readers to believe this claptrap? Why not post some fair and balanced Roger Noriega "reports" as well.

[MADem]

168. As opposed to your Granma propaganda?

The man was murdered. Eyewitnesses say so.

I'll believe them before I believe you and your "Waaaaaah, I can't answer the points you make, so I'll whine about your SOURCE" method of argument.

But go ahead and yuck it up about a dead guy who refused to be a tool of ANYONE--not the Cuban government, and not the anti-Castro louts in Miami.

See, that's the bit you can't quite explain, so you resort to emoticons and hyperbole.

As you do.

[Mika]

170. Where's my Granma sourced posts? I've posted none.

Very dishonest of you to be insisting on something that I've not done.
Not to mention your extremely dishonest repetitious claims that I yucked it up over Mr Paya's death.
A pathetic new low for you. A new low of using direct lies about me.

Responding to Jose Cardenas' wild accusations is like responding to Faux Nooz crazy crap.

That you would take AEI's anti Cuba innuendo seriously says a lot about you.

[MADem]

172. Be careful what you wish for...who's "dishonest" here?

Or are you simply ..... forgetful? Yes, that must be it!

Direct lies, eh? Well, maybe you'll believe your own eyes--or maybe you won't--it wouldn't surprise me at all if you ignore your own inconvenient posts. Granma has ALWAYS been your "go to" source, because the Cuban government propaganda is always neatly sliced and diced, and always fits your Castro-parroting narrative.

Quite frankly, you've trashed your own credibility with those remarks! Hold that mirror up to your own visage, now. New low, indeed!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11089962#post2


http://election.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2224251

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2833378&mesg_id=2835016

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=405&topic_id=3992&mesg_id=4050


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2463190&mesg_id=2463251


I could go on...and on...and on....but you get the idea.


Let me memorialize your comments, for the record, while I'm at it:

Mika
170. Where's my Granma sourced posts? I've posted none.
View profile
Very dishonest of you to be insisting on something that I've not done.
Not to mention your extremely dishonest repetitious claims that I yucked it up over Mr Paya's death.
A pathetic new low for you. A new low of using direct lies about me.

Responding to Jose Cardenas' wild accusations is like responding to Faux Nooz crazy crap.

That you would take AEI's anti Cuba innuendo seriously says a lot about you.

Because, you see, your comments say a lot about YOU. Go ahead and yuck it up about that, too, if you'd like. Your agenda is showing....

[Mika]

173. On this thread? On this topic (Paya)? Nope.

Still insisting that I yucked-it-up over Paya's death? Bullshit. That is the lying low from you that I am referring to.

Still, no Granma posts from me in this discussion - as I thought you were referring to. I could go back, stalker style, and find more of your mewling anti Cuba parrot act, but I'll stick to this discussion about this discussion.

BTW, every one of the links you put up (aside from an op-ed about terrorist bomber Luis Posada) were reprinted articles NOT from Granma, but articles by other media sources that Granma reposted, like the NYT and WP repost AP and UPI articles. Talk about disingenuousness on your part.

My agenda? Yep. I support the people of Cuba, their works, and their sovereignty. I'm sorry that that agenda is so offensive to your sensibilities.

Your own AEI anti Cuba propaganda parroting does show your agenda quite clearly.


Cheers

[MADem]

174. I never said "on this post." But there you go, moving the goalposts and yucking it up, as you do!

Granma is your go-to source, and you like to yuck when dissidents get killed in car wrecks.

We learn so much about you from your own words! Spin, spin, spin!

[Mika]

177. Why keep on lying?

I quite clearly said that my yucking it up was over your conclusions of Cuba's system, not Paya.

Talking about dishonest spin from you.

[MADem]

178. Yes, why DO you do that? Moving the goalposts, changing the meaning--it's all here for anyone to

see.

You can't make a sale to me--I see what you've done, and so does anyone else reading this thread. By your words we know you.

You're looking in the mirror and talking to yourself.

[Mika]

179. Quit clearly you are lying about what I said.

Here is the repartée ...

Cuba is a dictatorship. There's just no argument you or anyone else can make that would convince a sentient, intelligent person otherwise.

MADem (post 79) http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=566665

Well, I guess that since you make such a ruling, it must be so.


Mika (post 80) http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=566670

I was not making a comment on Paya, nor yucking it up over Paya. Just your pronouncement about Cuba. Liar.

[MADem]

180. You can twist and spin all day--you said what you said, and it's here for everyone to see. nt

[Mika]

181. Yep. And your lies are here too.

Why you continue with this lie shows a lot about you.

[MADem]

182. Mika, whoever smelt it, dealt it. You're the one who started tossing the "lie" word around, not me.

And your continued baiting, calling me a liar, when I'm telling the truth and it's driving you absolutely batshit crazy, is humorous in the extreme. Keep it up--it gives the entire community a great look at you, in all your glory.

The only way you can make your untruths disappear is to delete all your posts. I hope you leave them up, though, because they show your character to everyone who reads this thread so clearly.

You are an awfully transparent person--I could understand if you don't like what you see.

[Mika]

183. LOL. You just don't like being called out as a liar.

I'm getting a laugh from your continued elementary school level insisting that I yucked it up over something I didn't.
I won't take down my posts. They will stand, as I hope you leave your baiting and lies up.

Have a great evening.

[MADem]

184. I think you're the one who's been called out, here, Mika.

All I'm doing is pointing out your horrible conduct on this thread.

You're responding by petulantly and repeatedly calling me a liar (and you did it yet again)--which is a rather childish and uncivil response for one DUer to make to another. Plus, anyone with a third grade reading ability can tell who's not telling the truth in this exchange--and I'm not at all concerned.

Go on, then--have a great evening yourself. I really think, based on your somewhat frantic comments here, that you could use one.

[Mika]

185. Being "called out" with a lie isn't being called out.

Frantic? LOL. Your hilarity is wasted supporting a lie, but still funny.

But, at least you admit that you are a dolt... http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=566706

Kudos to you for that.

[MADem]

186. Poor Mika--you must be very frustrated indeed.

There's that lie word again, your favorite, apparently, along with more rudeness and snark.

You're really putting on quite the train wreck of a show in this thread.

Listen! They're playing your song:

[MADem]

79. Payá was harrassed until the day he was murdered....not a good example, that.

On 22 July 2012, he died in a car crash under controversial circumstances. The Cuban government stated that the driver had lost control of the vehicle and collided with a tree, while Payá's children and one of the car's passengers asserted that the car had been deliberately run off of the road.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswaldo_Pay%C3%A1

Cuba is a dictatorship. There's just no argument you or anyone else can make that would convince a sentient, intelligent person otherwise.

[Mika]

80. Well, I guess that since you make such a ruling, it must be so.

[MADem]

81. I am not the one making the "ruling"--but I'll believe a passenger in his car before I believe you.

Your use of the "little rolling man" to punctuate the murder of a guy who was probably the only viable opposition to the ruling regime is really, really ... ODD. And I don't mean that in a good way.

Yuck it up--put your nature on display for us all to see.

[Mika]

85. My yucking it up was for your conclusion on Cuba's democracy, not Paya.

Now, I'd love to see your investigative information that concludes the "murder" of Mr Paya.
Thanks.

[MADem]

98. No it wasn't--a dolt could see what you were yucking about.

You've got google, knock yourself out.

I could cough up a YOUTUBE video of Fidel and Raul ramming the guy and running him off the road, and you'd find some way to play the "Nothing to see here" game. You tout the "party line"--quite doggedly and relentlessly, even when your comments border on the absurd-- for reasons known only to you.

When Cuba finally achieves a measure of freedom, how will you reconcile the inevitable horror-story reports from people who are free to speak with your sanguine tales of cheery, happy-glad carefree Cubans who have everything they could possible want or need?

[Mika]

102. So, you conclude that you are a dolt?

The rest of your fantasies of me/my positions or my "sanguine tales" are worthless - not worthy of real response (other than this).

Cheers.

[MADem]

116. Childish. You are willfully, gleefully obtuse.

The Swedes think he was murdered: http://www.oswaldopaya.org/es/2013/08/07/%C2%BFpaya-y-cepero-murieron-en-un-accidente-de-coche-por-desiree-pethrus/

USA thinks he was murdered: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/03/28/3312243/us-administration-calls-for-investigation.html

Even Desmond Tutu--and 111 others--smell a rat:
http://www.parliamentary-forum.org/en/nv/more-than-fifty-members-of-the-parliamentary-forum-for-democracy-network-expressed-support-to-the-appeal-to-international-inquiry-into-the-death-of-oswaldo-paya

The new revelations corroborate the claims made by the families of the victims and other witnesses, as well as the report by Spain’s ABC news agency about text messages sent contemporaneous with the incident from the mobile phones of Mr. Carromero and another passenger, Aron Modig, indicating that their car was chased and then hit, causing the crash.

Cuban dissident Oswaldo Paya did not die in a car crash last year but was instead "assassinated" by Cuban secret services, a Spanish politician who was at the wheel of the car said in an interview published on Monday.
http://www.thelocal.es/20130805/cubans-covered-up-activist-death-spanish-politician


Spain named a street after the murdered dissident:
http://www.sierramadrid.es/noticias/9402/Las-Rozas-asignar%E1-a-una-de-sus-calles-el-nombre-de-Oswaldo-Pay%E1/

Cuban dissident Oswaldo Payá's death 'no accident', claims daughter
Car carrying Castro critic and three others repeatedly rammed by another vehicle before crash, Rosa María Payá tells CNN
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jul/23/oswaldo-paya-death-no-accident


Repeatedly rammed--some "accident" -- and you think it's funny.

Says a lot about you.

[Mika]

118. I already clarified my post for you, yet you remain intransigent.

You to continue with this false accusation after I clearly stated what I was "laughing" at - which was not about Paya's death.
That says a lot about you.

Every story you posted are speculative, based on statements by anti Castro activists, and seek further investigation. The only "conclusion" of murder are by said anti Castro activists - and you.
Your assigning the stories you posted to "XYZ think he was murdered" are patent falsehoods.
These falsehoods reveal a lot about you and your credibility on this topic.

[MADem]

122. Now Desmond Tutu and Swedish parliamentarians are "anti-Castro activists?"

GOVERNMENTS have demanded an investigation into Payá's assassination...and clearly, you know nothing about the man, because your lumping him in with "anti-Castro activists" is just, well, asinine, and coming from a place of zero knowledge. He wasn't in THEIR pocket, either. Unlike them, and unlike Castro's blinded acolytes and toadies who willfully ignore decisive evidence, to include contemporaneous text messages that detail the accident, he was his own man.

He was murdered for that, too.

[joshcryer]

131. I believe the passenger, too.

Being followed by police thugs in Cuba is a common occurrence. I do think the driver was speeding unnecessarily, though, but the passenger has no reason to lie. He lied while he was in custody because if he told the truth in Cuba he would've wound up in a prison cell for years as a conspirator.

[Judi Lynn]

69. You could benefit yourself by actually learning about Cuba.

As for someone from an opposition party in Cuba, there was a man named Eloy Gutiérrez Menoyo, who many U.S. Americans watched for years as he created his own opposition party first in Miami, then set up his headquarters in Cuba, where he was contacted by the U.S. Government threatening him, trying to force him to return to the U.S. or face the consequences. HA.

That's such a hot one. No one could believe the U.S, would be that blatant, at the tine, it didn't seem possible the _Bush pResidency could keep on trashing Cuba while they were taking that line regarding this man. How stupid can people get? Sure they could. That's the way right-wingers roll.

[center]~ ~ ~[/center]

‘In the exercise of my freedom’

An interview with Eloy Gutiérrez Menoyo, who has been threatened by the government of the United States for supporting a political dialogue with the Cuban government.

By Manuel Alberto Ramy
[e-mail]

Over the head of Eloy Gutiérrez Menoyo, former Cuban rebel commander and the leader of the opposition group Cambio Cubano (Cuban Change), hangs the possibility that the U.S. authorities will sentence him to 10 years' imprisonment and a $250,000 fine. This was communicated to him officially by a functionary of the U.S. Interests Section in Cuba.

Menoyo's case is curious. In August 2003, he traveled to Cuba from the U.S. accompanied by his wife and three of his children to visit relatives. It wasn't the first time he returned to Cuba. But during that trip he decided to remain there and secure legal status for himself and for the organization he leads.

Since then, he has left the country and returned on several occasions with the approval of the island's government, which every time "guaranteed to me that I could return -- a promise it kept," Menoyo told me in an interview months ago (see "The path of confrontation leads nowhere," in Progreso Weekly, July 29-Aug. 4, 2004.)

Now, a communication from OFAC (Office of Foreign Assets Control), an office of the U.S. Treasury Department, warns him that he may be tried and punished.

What is happening to Eloy Gutiérrez Menoyo? Why this message to the only oppositionist to the Havana government who has decided to leave the Miami enclave to reside in Cuba so as to "open spaces for the peaceful and independent opposition," as he has stated?

Maybe the key is that his stance is independent from Washington, nonviolent and opposed to propitiating situations that might justify a military intervention from the Bush administration.

More:
http://www.progresoweekly.com/index.php?progreso=Ramy2&otherweek=1108620000

[center]~ ~ ~[/center]
After a certain amount of time went by, and there was a reunion of survivors of the Bay of Pigs in Cuba, attended by Eloy Gutiérrez Menoyo, and members of John F. Kennedy's staff and family, and Eloy Gutiérrez Menoyo, along with another Miami veteran both went. Upon return to Miami, Eloy Gutiérrez Menoyo was treated like pure dirt by the "exile" community, like public enemy #1.

You should take some time to learn more about the dynamics put in place in Miami after the arrival of the Cuban Spanish "exiles," the extreme violence, the terrorism, murders, tyranny, find out why the FBI named Miami "America's Terror Capital."

Here are the declassified documents which were introduced publicly at the time by the son of Robert Kennedy:

IMMEDIATE RELEASE
March 23, 2001, 5 p.m.

[center]BAY OF PIGS CONFERENCE POINTS TO MISSED
OPPORTUNITIES FOR DIALOGUE AFTER INVASION FAILED

SECRET RAPPROACHMENT EFFORTS BEGAN IN
NEGOTIATIONS FOR PRISONER RELEASE;
ENDED WITH JFK'S ASSASSINATION[/center]

Havana, Cuba: Documents released this afternoon on the second day of an historic meeting of former adversaries in Havana highlight missed opportunities for U.S.-Cuban rapproachment following the failure of the U.S.-sponsored invasion of Cuba at the Bay of Pigs.

Notes on an April 1963 visit to Cuba by attorney James B. Donovan and a memorandum of statements by Fidel Castro from the same trip, record a secret effort to negotiate the release of American prisoners that also helped to initiate a dialogue between bitter adversaries.

The memorandum also summarizes Castro's perceptions during the invasion, which he believed was intended to secure a beachhead from which to launch a provisional government. He was thus determined "to prevent the landing of the provisional government at all costs."

Also released today are documents relating to secret efforts by the Kennedy Administration to begin a dialogue with Castro in the days before his assassination in November 1963. In a February 1964 message to President Johnson, conveyed through ABC News correspondent Lisa Howard, Castro tells the new president "that there are no areas of contention between us that cannot be discussed and settled within a climate of mutual understanding," and expresses hope that Johnson will win the November presidential election and continue with the Kennedy Administration's rapproachment effort.

More:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/bayofpigs/index.html

[hack89]

75. So this is reason alone to suppress all opposition parties in Cuba?

really?

[Mika]

78. ALL "opposition" parties are suppressed? Proof please.

I've posted several links on political parties in Cuba. They operate openly and freely. Even holding a few seats in some Assemblies.

[hack89]

86. None of those "opposition" parties opposes socialism or Castro, now do they? nt

[Mika]

92. How do you know this? You've proven you know nothing about it, so far. eom

[hack89]

96. Can't prove a negative.

you are the ones with all the links. Surely one of them is to a real opposition party in Cuba that actively opposes government policies.

BTW - you are an excellent dancer.

[Mika]

100. I've already posted some of the political parties in Cuba, including opposition parties.

Please, keep up with the conversation. Your mewling repetitions are getting boring.

[hack89]

105. None of which actively oppose the government or socialism.

please stay on topic.

[Mika]

108. Really?

Please post their platforms, and we'll go over them.

[hack89]

125. They are not opposition parties

they are just different flavors of the Communist party. Show me the party that opposes Castro, Socialism or the Communist Party.

A simple request you continue to ignore.

[brooklynite]

127. Isn't it amazing?

In every Marxist country where citizens were given a free choice, the Government collapsed. But for some reason, 100% of the people of Cuba decided to stick with the Castroites.

[Mika]

135. Oswaldo Paya's Christian Democratic Party isn't an opposition party?

How about Menoyo's party that Judi Lynn posted about?

Methinks you are the one doing the ignoring.

Do try and keep up with what's being discussed here.

[joshcryer]

141. Christian Democratic Party members cannot campaign.

They cannot walk around spreading Varela Project pamphlets. That is expressly illegal. And you know it.

[Judi Lynn]

142. The others don't campaign, either. They are nominated by others.

They don't campaign, don't get bought. Period.

Their names are posted publicly. We've had other posters here, too, who have been in Cuba during elections, besides Mika. Same story from them.

Loved our poster from Canada, Freecancat, who couldn't take any more of the right-wing scum infesting this board, trying to disrupt, and she spoke her mind about it, and was handed a pizza.

We really miss that outstanding, intelligent woman we knew also at the old CNN US/Cuba Relations message board. She would have ripped many of the dregs here a new one.

[joshcryer]

145. They don't have to, they just have to be the status quo.

The Candidacy Commission is who decides ultimately the choice for the Cuban people.

You cannot discuss with them policy and they cannot discuss policy with you before you vote for them. All you know is that there is someone that some nominators nominated and who was accepted. There is no discussion.

[Mika]

143. So, when the National Assembly took the Varela petition under consideration...

... they were violating their own rules? That it was accepted for consideration was illegal.

I'm not talking about whether or not they ratified it, just that they accepted the petition from the Christian Democratic Party campaign petition?

You can't have it both ways (unless it's just fantasization, on your part).

[joshcryer]

146. Black Spring. Dozens of CDP arrested and jailed.

Because they dared protest.

The petition had to be accepted because the constitution demands it.

The constitution also demands that anyone who campaigns against the status quo be arrested.

The Ladies in White have managed, somewhat, to avoid the rapid arrests and detentions that are common with dissidents in Cuba.

But they were escorted away last time they protested.

[Mika]

151. SOP. When in doubt just make shit up.

Show me where the constitution demands arrests.

FYI, the "ladies" in white protest every week. Not arrested. Removed from the Plaza de la Revolucion once for not having the required permit to use the space.

Just make up some more shit. You're prolific at that.

[hack89]

148. It is the Christian Liberation Movement (MCL) for one thing`

secondly it is not recognized as a political party nor have any members ever been allowed to get on a ballot.

It is a dissident movement that focuses on persuading other nations to pressure Cuba to respect human rights.

Cambio Cubano was formed in Miami - again, it has never been allowed ballot access in Cuba.

[Mika]

152. The Christian Democratic Party created the Varela petition. It was presented to the CUBAN Assembly.

Please detail where/when/and how they were "not allowed" on any ballot.

[hack89]

155. Because the system is rigged to keep them off

The Candidacy Commissions that pick candidates come from the following "mass organizations":

· Confederation of Cuban Workers (Central de Trabajadores de Cuba)
· Committees for the Defense of the Revolution (Comités de Defensa de la Revolución)
· Federation of Cuban Women (Federación de Mujeres Cubanas)
· National Association of Small Farmers (Asociación Nacional de Agricultores Pequeños)
· University Students' Federation (Federación Estudiantil Universitaria)
· Federation of Secondary School Students (Federación de Estudiantes de la Enseñanza Media)

All of which are controlled by the Cuban Communist Party.

The proof is in the pudding - no Christian Democratic Party member has ever been on a ballot.

[Mika]

157. SOP. Just make up more shit.

Candidacy commissions DO NOT select candidates. Period.

I know that this makes no difference to your agenda.

You really should get this book, that is IF you really want to learn how the electoral process is undertaken ...



Somehow, I doubt you are truly interested - it doesn't fit your anti Cuba agenda.

[hack89]

158. Lets look at what Arnold August has to say about picking candidates for Parlimentry elections

What is the equivalent of this procedure on the national level, for the Parliament? How are candidates for deputies nominated? Unlike the municipal elections, there is only one candidate per seat in the parliament. When I met with the National Candidacy Commission 10 years ago in 1998 and once again last week, while also carrying out on the spot observations I have come once again to the same conclusion, but I believe in a much more profound way.

Fourthly, candidacy commissions then carried out a massive consultation involving over 2.5 people in their work places and neighbourhoods where these pre-candidates live and work in order to get grass roots opinions from the base on whether the proposed individuals are worthy or no to work in the Peoples Power

Sixthly, it is the municipal assemblies where the pre-candidates are assigned to run for elections which have to approve the list proposed by the candidate commission. The municipal delegates have the right to refuse one of more candidates, which happens from time to time and the candidacy commission in these cases has to propose another. Once the list is finalised, the pre-candidates become candidates.

The final step takes place tomorrow, January 20, when the voters have the final say. Each candidate has to get at least 50% of the valid votes in order to be elected. Last week I had asked one of the candidates for the provincial assembly from the Plaza de la Revolucion Municipality if she was nervous about the vote that is whether she would get 50%. The recently elected Municipal delegate confided that in fact she was worried, not because any prestige or privilege was at stake (there are no privileges, only more hard voluntary work at the same salary) in being elected provincial delegate. Her apprehension was to avoid disappointing her work mates, neighbours, mass organisation colleagues in the union and women’s federation and fellow municipal delegates all of whom had all showed confidence in her. She simply did not want to let them down. So the 50% (even though no one has yet lost an election) is still present in the minds of many candidates. .

http://www.walterlippmann.com/docs1748.html

So only one candidate on the ballot for national offices, the Candidacy Commissions provide the name of that single candidate, and no one has ever lost an election.

You really want to call that democracy?

[Mika]

159. Here's the part you ommitted ...

During the course of the lively exchange and discussion last week at the headquarters of the National Candidacy Commission it seemed to me that the entire procedure of consultation led by the national, provincial and municipal candidacy commissions is the equivalent of the local municipal neighbourhood nomination meetings but on the national level with the goal of proposing candidates to the national assembly.

To summarize very briefly because everything will be laid out in full detail in my forthcoming book:

Firstly, those who compose the candidacy commissions at all levels are elected representatives of the six main mass organisation in Cuba, headed by the workers’ trade union central and including representatives of the five other mass organizations: women, small farmers, CDR (local neighbourhood committees), university students and high school students (16 to 18 years of age in Cuba).

Secondly, all the mass organizations at all three levels (national, provincial and municipal) have the right to propose people as pre-candidates from amongst the population from all walks of life.

[hack89]

160. So a single pre-selected candidate per office is democracy in your eyes?

Last edited Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:47 PM - Edit history (1)

what is the problem with competive elections? Why only one name on the ballot?

[Mika]

164. It's called the Ratification election. Requires at least 50% +1 vote for a candidate to be seated.

If the required 50%+1 isn't achieved, then a new selection slate is created (democratically), and elections are to be held within 6 weeks.

Also, any elected parliamentarian/representative can be recalled every 6 months by the public in their district's mandatory "accountability session". If they do not meet the public approval (by at least 50% +1), then a new election is called to replace said representative.

[hack89]

166. Except no one has ever lost an election

Firstly, those who compose the candidacy commissions at all levels are elected representatives of the six main mass organisation in Cuba, headed by the workers’ trade union central and including representatives of the five other mass organizations: women, small farmers, CDR (local neighbourhood committees), university students and high school students (16 to 18 years of age in Cuba).

Secondly, all the mass organizations at all three levels (national, provincial and municipal) have the right to propose people as pre-candidates from amongst the population from all walks of life.

Sixthly, it is the municipal assemblies where the pre-candidates are assigned to run for elections which have to approve the list proposed by the candidate commission. The municipal delegates have the right to refuse one of more candidates, which happens from time to time and the candidacy commission in these cases has to propose another. Once the list is finalised, the pre-candidates become candidates.

The final step takes place tomorrow, January 20, when the voters have the final say. Each candidate has to get at least 50% of the valid votes in order to be elected. Last week I had asked one of the candidates for the provincial assembly from the Plaza de la Revolucion Municipality if she was nervous about the vote that is whether she would get 50%. The recently elected Municipal delegate confided that in fact she was worried, not because any prestige or privilege was at stake (there are no privileges, only more hard voluntary work at the same salary) in being elected provincial delegate. Her apprehension was to avoid disappointing her work mates, neighbours, mass organisation colleagues in the union and women’s federation and fellow municipal delegates all of whom had all showed confidence in her. She simply did not want to let them down. So the 50% (even though no one has yet lost an election) is still present in the minds of many candidates.

Since only members of the officially recognized mass organizations can nominate pre-candidates, how can you call that a democratic process?

You have government organizations vetting all the pre-candidates and selecting who will hold that office. That is not democracy.

[Judi Lynn]

124. You're not making sense at all. Try to think things through. n/t

[hack89]

162. Not for national elections

candidates are selected by six "mass organizations" affiliated with the government. And the end result is one candidate per office - there are no competitive elections.

[Mika]

20. I have family there. I visit often.

Some of THE most dedicated health care professionals I have ever had the pleasure of working with.

Viva Cuba!

[joshcryer]

26. Gay rights have improved dramatically in Cuba over the years.

Primarily because the youth would revolt if they weren't allowed their self-determination. Cuba is still heavily Catholic and it channels Catholicism like any other Latin American state, but as far as social freedoms are concerned it's doing quite well (particularly when it comes to abortion rights and gender identity, which is miles ahead of any other Latin American country).

[Mika]

16. Some older DU threads on this topic, if you are really interested.

Socialist Cuba’s AIDS Rate Lowest in the Americas
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x6918

Cuba: Is It a Model in HIV-AIDS Battle?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x6914

And an interesting article

Cuba's AIDS patient #1 dies
By Karen Lee Wald
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/43b/011.html

[Janecita]

23. Eres Cubano?

[Mika]

43. No

No. Yo vivía en Cuba desde hace varios años. Incluso durante toda una temporada de elecciones.
Tengo familia en Cuba. Cubania está en mi corazón.

[Judi Lynn]

62. So U.S. American men weren't compelled to go to war? Is that how you see it?

There are so many dead soldiers who would have loved to be able to disagree with you.

[Mika]

65. And how many homeless US veterans are there? Many tens of thousands. In Cuba? Zero.

Plus EVERY Cuban has access to world class health care.

That sure is a nasty totalitarian system.

[Judi Lynn]

71. Oh, we never mention all the homeless veterans in the U.S., you know. What veterans?

It's certainly no problem, according to our corporate media, certainly not as important as the latest info. on various actors, tv stars, etc.

So many false fires from the Cold War have never really died, wouldn't you say? Haven't even gone out just a little bit before someone starts squalling about Russia all over again.

Goddamn it, we need more WAR, a real knock-down, drag-out, rock-'em, sock'em, every-man-for-himself free-for-all, get it all out of the system, and top it off with an outbreak of daisy-cutters, and all those droll names for murder.

I think these guys are homesick for the Cold War, Mika! They are starting to hallucinate.

[Judi Lynn]

59. I remember learning that their partners could live there with them & friends visit.

In the meantime they, including herterosexual people, were given a deeply souped-up, finely tuned healing diet, and treated with the outstanding drug "cocktail" Cuban medical researchers created long ago, and the result became an astonishingly LOW level of HIV/AIDS incidence on the island, downright remarkable.

[Mika]

68. The Cuban gov't is VERY BAD at being a ruthless dictatorship. lol

Jeezuz, the dark fantasizations here on DU about Cuba are astoundingly ignorant.
Very revealing of the posters psyche.

[Judi Lynn]

134. The images they conjure are bizarre, no doubt about it.

I just remember hearing that also, during the time the patients were living at the treatment centers, some with their partners, etc., being deliberately fed a fantastic, healthy diet, and their drug "cocktail," they also were given the same amount of money they had been making at their jobs they held before they entered the centers.

And our right-wingers fight like madmen to make sure NO ONE who can't afford treatment will ever get it. Pretty damned strange, isn't it?

[Mika]

139. Very strange.

Some seem hell-bent to validate their dark fantasies of a Cuba that Cubans have built - to the point of completely ignoring them, and attributing the accomplishments only to the Castros.
Very sad. Dishonest.
It's as if they think that the Castros are supermen, while at the same time accusing Cuba supporters of having fallen into some kind of cult of personality.

[rdharma]

2. Considering all the nefarious plots to kill him ... I'm surprised too! nt

[Judi Lynn]

60. The CIA has admitted publicly the number of attempts is in the hundreds. Creepy. n/t

[Mika]

72. 638 ways to kill Castro (video link)

638 Ways to kill Castro

If the title of this extraordinary film sounds ludicrous, don't be fooled. This film looks at the incredible story of the 638 alleged plots by the CIA and Cuban exiles to kill the Cuban leader Fidel Castro.

It reveals every conceivable method of asassination from exploding cigars to femme fatales, a radio station rigged with noxious gas to a poison syringe posing as an innocuous ballpoint pen. If you think this sounds like something out of a James Bond film from the days of Cold War spies, then you're not far from the truth. John F Kennedy even asked Bond-creator Ian Fleming for his advice on how to oust Castro.

[marble falls]

4. The CIA didn't expect ol' Fidel to live so long, either!

[jakeXT]

5. If his brother dies before him, will he get back in the saddle ?

87 is a good age for a pope.

[Mika]

22. No. Fidel Castro doesn't hold any seat in the National Assembly. eom

[WatermelonRat]

6. Is he really only 87?

Now that I think about it, he was fairly young when he took power, but it still seems like he should be older by now.

[Mika]

9. Fidel Castro was 50 years old when he became president in 1976. eom

[dipsydoodle]

28. He was only 32 when he took power 1 January 1959.

The Cuban Revolution took just over 2 years to succeed

The yacht Granma arrived in Cuba on 2 December 1956, carrying the Castros and 80 others of the 26th of July Movement. It landed on Playa Las Coloradas, in the municipality of Niquero, arriving two days later than planned because the boat was heavily loaded, unlike during the practice sailing runs.[24] This dashed any hopes for a coordinated attack with the llano wing of the movement. After arriving and exiting the ship, the band of rebels began to make their way into the Sierra Maestra mountains, a range in southeastern Cuba. Three days after the trek began, Batista's army attacked and killed most of the Granma participants – while the exact number is disputed, no more than twenty of the original eighty-two men survived the initial bloody encounters with the Cuban army and escaped into the Sierra Maestra mountains.[25]

The group of survivors included Fidel and Raúl Castro, Che Guevara and Camilo Cienfuegos. The dispersed survivors, alone or in small groups, wandered through the mountains, looking for each other. Eventually, the men would link up again – with the help of peasant sympathizers – and would form the core leadership of the guerrilla army. Celia Sanchez and Haydee Santamaria (the sister of Abel Santamaria) were among the female revolutionaries who assisted Fidel Castro in the mountains.[26]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Revolution

All done without any help from the west.

The point at which Batista knew his goose was cooked was only days before when Che Guevara , who by then was only 30 years old, took Santa Clara cutting the country in half. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Santa_Clara The rest is history.

[Mika]

40. Actually, Fidel Castro did not assume power as head of state until 1976.

Very sad to see so many here arguing about some imaginary Cuba, instead of educating themselves about the actual Cuba.

Dorticós Torrado, Osvaldo - 1919-83, president of Cuba (1959-76). A prosperous lawyer, he participated in Fidel Castro's revolutionary movement and was imprisoned (1958). He escaped and fled to Mexico, returning to Cuba after Castro's triumph (1959). As minister of laws (1959) he helped to formulate Cuban policies. He was appointed president in 1959. Intelligent and competent, he wielded considerable influence. In 1976 the Cuban government was reorganized, and Castro assumed the title of president; Dorticós was named a member of the council of state.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/osvaldo-dorticos

[brooklynite]

47. The fact that they gave him an title in 1976 doesn't mean it wasn't a one-man show before...

BTW - Kim Il Sung is still President of North Korea. I guess that makes it legitimate.

[Mika]

48. It never was a 1 man show. Any other dengrating of Cubans in Cuba?

Handed Castro a title? LOL. He was elected.

Plus, what a bogus know-nothing comparison... Cuba is no North Korea.

[brooklynite]

64. But North Korea had an election too!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_parliamentary_election,_2009

And Kim Jong-Il was elected to the Parliament!

Democracy!

[Mika]

67. Maybe there was US style gerrymandering?

http://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&safe=off&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1408&bih=873&q=US+district+gerrymandering&oq=US+district+gerrymandering&gs_l=img.3...1071.7414.0.7866.26.10.0.16.3.0.58.485.10.10.0....0...1ac.1.25.img..14.12.449.7X9hL-0cLkc

[Judi Lynn]

70. Maybe they just make it impossible for everyone who isn't a Republican Korean to vote. n/t

[David__77]

12. Perhaps he has several more years in him.

He may just outlast this current US presidency. The US has been pining for his demise for many a decade...

[RebelOne]

14. So have the Cubans in South Florida been wishing for his death for many years. n/t

[David__77]

18. The percentage with that wish declines each year.

The older group that is deeply invested in the matter is not so prevalent any more. I think that some accord might be established. More Cuban-Americans want normal relations with Cuba than in the past. Fidel Castro should be a factor in the relationship.

[joshcryer]

25. Indeed, the majority now support lifting the embargo.

The right wing grasp on Cuba-American relations is dying as sure as Castro.

[idwiyo]

24. K&R Viva Cuba!

[malaise]

29. I'm glad he recovered

Speaks volumes for the health care system he promoted along with the best doctors in our hemisphere.

[Paladin]

35. We have empowered Castro with our ridiculous blockade.

Things should have opened up and normalized between the U.S. and Cuba, decades ago. It would have been so, but for a small batch of hyper-conservative Cubans in south Florida. You Castro bashers are keeping really shitty company.

[Vogon_Glory]

66. Good Genes And Cussedness Help

Love him or hate him, you have to acknowledge that Fidel Castro comes from a bloodline noted for its longevity. I believe his father lasted into his eighties (if not his nineties) and I think his mother was also long-lived.

While I'm no breathless, rose-tinted glasses-wearing Fidel Castro fan, I also think he's probably one of the smartest Cuban politicians of the 20th century (If not THE smartest). He was a very shrewd, often ruthless political operator, who outsmarted both the opposition and one-time allies to seize power and maintain control until his health broke down.

While I'm no Fidel Castro fan, you've also got to look at the caliber of his recent Cuban-born and Cuban emigre-descended opponents: Marco Rubio, the Diaz-Balart brothers, Ted Cruz...small wonder the bearded guy's regime is still intact!

[rug]

87. Neither did the CIA.

[brisas2k]

126. Amazing

Amazing. It took a lethal ilness for Fidel to relinquish his grip on power.

Human greed for power has no limits.

“Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's needs, but not every man's greed.”
― Mahatma Gandhi

[Throd]

128. Castro sucks. Communism sucks. One-party authoritarian states suck.

And cults of personality suck too.

[bemildred]

150. It is a great satisfaction to dance on the graves of all his old enemies, I would think.

I know I would savor it, quietly.

[Harmony Blue]

153. Castro may go down as being another Ataturk

but time will tell. Opinions and view points on Castro have shifted dramatically back and forth the last 10 years. Some view him as a visionary while others view him as a dictator or leader of an oligarchy.

[hack89]

163. It is hard to imagine Cuba will not change significantly once the Castro's are gone

There will be a Cuban spring one day.

[Comrade Grumpy]

167. Happy birthday, Fidel. n/t

[Pterodactyl]

169. Cuba will outlast Castro.

[Mika]

171. Cuba is not Castro.

This national sovereignty is what Cubans regained when they kicked the US backed, blood soaked Batista regime out. They've had more than their fair share of hardships of wide array, but ....
It is not Castro that makes Cuba's high level universal health care function at world class levels.
It is not Castro that makes Cuba's high level universal education system function at world class levels.
It is not Castro that made Cuba one of the leading sustainability national models (according to the WWF).
It is the Cuban people who do this, because it is what they want - and they work damned hard to make it happen.
Add to their amazing accomplishments in domestic social endeavors - Cuba's generosity to other nations around the globe - training doctors and educators in award winning programs, aiding many nations in national "natural" disasters, and aiding in education projects around the world, building schools. I'm not saying that Cuba is any "workers paradise" as the RW detractors often claim of my posts, but Cubans have made vital things happen in their country, despite their poverty, that many poor Americans would give their left one to have here. And, because of their good deeds and spirit, Cuba has the respect of most of the world (except Americans).

[Pterodactyl]

175. And Castro is not Cuba.

[joelz]

176. amazing

after all the terrorist acts the U.S, has pulled against Cuba and Fidel.My son and I have fished there the last three years very nice and one of these years he is planning to catch the worlds biggest largemouth bass