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bananas

(27,509 posts)
Thu Aug 15, 2013, 09:48 PM Aug 2013

SpaceX Grasshopper Successfully Flies Sideways Before Returning To Landing Pad [VIDEO]

Source: International Business Times

The SpaceX Grasshopper, a new reusable rocket from the private spaceflight contractor, has set another milestone after launching vertically and then flying sideways for several hundred feet.

In the video released Thursday, the Grasshopper takes off vertically, reaching a height of 820 feet before hovering in the air and laterally shifting 330 feet. After it had successfully completed the maneuver, the Grasshopper safely returned to its landing platform. SpaceX, owned by billionare “hyperloop” pioneer Elon Musk, says that accomplishing such a maneuver is a big step forward in creating a truly reusable rocket.

"The test demonstrated the vehicle's ability to perform more aggressive steering maneuvers than have been attempted in previous flights. Grasshopper is taller than a ten story building, which makes the control problem particularly challenging. Diverts like this are an important part of the trajectory in order to land the rocket precisely back at the launch site after reentering from space at hypersonic velocity," SpaceX explained in a description alongside the video.

Such a maneuverable rocket is a unique idea, one that SpaceX hopes will be immensely useful -- and profitable -- for space agencies across the globe. SpaceX’s ultimate goal with the Grasshopper program is to create a rocket capable of vertically landing back on its launchpad after exiting and re-entering Earth’s atmosphere. The vast majority of rockets are simply discarded by spacecraft and left to burn up on re-entry. With a truly reusable rocket like the Grasshopper, SpaceX believes that space agencies would be able to save much time and money.

<snip>

Read more: http://www.ibtimes.com/spacex-grasshopper-successfully-flies-sideways-returning-landing-pad-video-1387943?ft=w14p5

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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SpaceX Grasshopper Successfully Flies Sideways Before Returning To Landing Pad [VIDEO] (Original Post) bananas Aug 2013 OP
Youtube video "Grasshopper Divert | Single Cam" bananas Aug 2013 #1
wow wow wow rurallib Aug 2013 #2
O.O sakabatou Aug 2013 #4
WOW. Celefin Aug 2013 #7
This is the future. joshcryer Aug 2013 #11
That was most impressive! Uncle Joe Aug 2013 #22
I've played that game. onehandle Aug 2013 #3
Truly impressive. We live in exciting times. n/t eggplant Aug 2013 #5
Very interesting test. I wonder how useful that will be in practice BlueStreak Aug 2013 #6
It reduces the payload by half. bananas Aug 2013 #9
hmmm ... Trajan Aug 2013 #17
It uses more fuel, but fuel is a tiny fraction of launch cost. bananas Aug 2013 #18
For comparison, here are SLS/Orion costs bananas Aug 2013 #19
Elon Musk is the real life Tony Stark nt Ex Lurker Aug 2013 #8
Absolutely fricking amazing! TexasTowelie Aug 2013 #10
One other thing that's great about this, kentauros Aug 2013 #12
I love that there's a few people out there who take crazy ideas *and work to implement them*. (nt) Posteritatis Aug 2013 #15
An amazing demonstration of current capabilities. MineralMan Aug 2013 #13
As someone who has been reading SF for over 50 years, all I can say is... GliderGuider Aug 2013 #14
I have been reading SF since I was 15, and I am 74. RebelOne Aug 2013 #16
Blows my mind...How on earth is it done? damyank913 Aug 2013 #20
Multiple engines on gimbals, would be my educated guess. kentauros Aug 2013 #23
It reminds one of a science fiction movie sequence daleo Aug 2013 #21

bananas

(27,509 posts)
1. Youtube video "Grasshopper Divert | Single Cam"
Thu Aug 15, 2013, 09:50 PM
Aug 2013


Grasshopper Divert | Single Cam

On August 13th, the Falcon 9 test rig (code name Grasshopper) completed a divert test, flying to a 250m altitude with a 100m lateral maneuver before returning to the center of the pad. The test demonstrated the vehicle's ability to perform more aggressive steering maneuvers than have been attempted in previous flights.

Grasshopper is taller than a ten story building, which makes the control problem particularly challenging. Diverts like this are an important part of the trajectory in order to land the rocket precisely back at the launch site after reentering from space at hypersonic velocity.

 

BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
6. Very interesting test. I wonder how useful that will be in practice
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 01:17 AM
Aug 2013

Having more control over a rocket is never a bad thing, of course. But the concept of landing rockets this way after a space mission seems really questionable from a fuel standpoint. It takes an enormous amount of fuel to do that, and obviously you have to carry that fuel up with you INSTEAD OF payload.

I assume Musk has done the numbers and found a way for that to work out.

bananas

(27,509 posts)
9. It reduces the payload by half.
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 05:03 AM
Aug 2013

According to Musk, having all the stages fly back will reduce the payload by half.

But this makes the rockets rapidly reusable, so they can be flown again quickly, reducing cost per flight.

I'm not sure what flight rate he's aiming at, but it's going to be a lot.

 

Trajan

(19,089 posts)
17. hmmm ...
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 02:19 AM
Aug 2013

Flying upward in one direction, and then flying back for a return trip, uses less fuel than only flying upward ?

Do they GAIN fuel on the way back? .... A+B < A? ...

I don't see how this is possible ...

The excess fuel that is still onboard during landing (when compared to standard rocket types in use today that exhaust all fuel before returning) will introduce volatile flammables to the landing process .... I don't see this as a safe option ....

bananas

(27,509 posts)
18. It uses more fuel, but fuel is a tiny fraction of launch cost.
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 05:30 AM
Aug 2013
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/space/rockets/elon-musk-on-spacexs-reusable-rocket-plans-6653023

<snip>

The key, at least for the first stage, is the difference in speed. "It really comes down to what the staging Mach number would be," Musk says, referencing the speed the rocket would be traveling at separation. "For an expendable Falcon 9 rocket, that is around Mach 10. For a reusable Falcon 9, it is around Mach 6, depending on the mission." For the reusable version, the rocket must be traveling at a slower speed at separation because the burn must end early, preserving enough propellant to let the rocket fly back and land vertically. This also makes recovery easier because entry velocities are slower.

However, the slower speed also means that the upper stage of the Falcon rocket must supply more of the velocity needed to get to orbit, and that significantly reduces how much payload the rocket can lift into orbit. "The payload penalty for full and fast reusability versus an expendable version is roughly 40 percent," Musk says. &quot But) propellant cost is less than 0.4 percent of the total flight cost. Even taking into account the payload reduction for reusability, the improvement is therefore theoretically over a hundred times."

A hundred times is an incredible gain. It would drop cost for Musk’s Falcon Heavy rocket—a scaled-up version of the Falcon 9 that’s currently rated at $1000 per pound to orbit—to just $10. "That, however, requires a very high flight rate, just like aircraft," Musk says. "At a low flight rate, the improvement is still probably around 50 percent. For Falcon Heavy, that would mean a price per pound to orbit of less than $500." Falcon Heavy is particularly amenable to reuse of the first stage—the two outer cores in particular, because they separate at a much lower velocity than the center one, being dropped off early in the flight.

Turnaround Time

Bringing down the cost of rocket launches isn’t just about reusability; as Musk’s quote suggests, it’s also about turnaround time. The original premise of the space shuttle program was that the vehicle would be turned around within days; it ended up being months, which is one of the reasons that it never met its cost goals.

What about a reusable Falcon? Musk says he expects "single-digit hours" between landing and next flight, at least for the lower stages. "For the upper stage, there is the additional constraint of the orbit ground track needing to overfly the landing pad, since cross-range (the distance to a landing site that it can fly to either side of its original entry flight path) is limited. At most this adds 24 hours to the upper-stage turnaround."

<snip>

So what does that mean for ticket prices in the future? Musk tells us that with daily flights, the cost will run about $100 per pound. For the average male, that means about 20,000 bucks. Start saving your money.

bananas

(27,509 posts)
19. For comparison, here are SLS/Orion costs
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 06:15 AM
Aug 2013
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2330/1

Revisiting SLS/Orion launch costs

by John Strickland
Monday, July 15, 2013
Comments (71)

A year and a half ago, I wrote an article very critical of the Space Launch System (see “The SLS: too expensive for exploration?”, The Space Review, November 28, 2011). To see if this assessment should now be updated, I checked a series of sources and found that little in the situation has changed, with no reliable cost estimates of an SLS launch yet available anywhere. It is actually amazing how hard it is to get cost estimates for any part of the SLS/Orion system. Another assessment corroborates this problem. While I was working on this article, two startling pieces of information came to light.

<snip>

A June 28, 2013, article in Space News, covering an official media tour of the Michoud plant and touting its new welding equipment, seems to indicate that NASA intends to fly the SLS only about once every four years even after the rocket’s development is completed. Previously the slowest launch rate anyone predicted was every two years. Even if NASA wants to fly the SLS more often, the cost of preparing new payloads for it may still greatly limit its flight rate. The Space News article quotes Steven Squyres, chairman of the NASA Advisory Council, as saying, “We have no experience with a human-rated flight system that only flies every two or three or four years.” This then brings into question the readiness of a launch team to do safe launches at rare intervals. This is a significant issue if you remember the problems of starting up shuttle launches again after the long launch gaps after the two shuttle accidents.

Information in another unofficial schedule posted on the Wikipedia page for the SLS (current as of July 1, 2013), indicates that NASA now does not plan to complete development of the 130-ton Block II version of the SLS until as late as 2030. Estimates of the payload up to those dates are between the initial 70 tons and up to 105 tons. This also implies a stretched out program and continuing development costs for another 15 or more years.

This information radically changes the assumed cost of each launch, since now, over a presumed 28-year lifespan, starting in perhaps 2022 and lasting presumably until 2050, the rocket would be used only seven times, and for more than a third of its lifespan, not able to launch the promised 130 tons. Its $30-billion development cost would then need to be divided among the few actual launches, not over all the years of the 28-year period, and would be about $4.3 billion per launch. This share of the launch cost represents money that could have been spend on payloads in years past. The per-launch cost of the rocket now jumps from $5 billion up to about $9 billion. The continuing annual cost of maintaining the workforce that allows launches to occur are rare intervals would need to be counted as part of each launch cost. The lesson learned from the Space Shuttle era is that the manpower costs are the largest cost, which is demonstrated again here. The cost table shown above now looks very different. Note that launch prices per ton and per pound for the initial 70-ton SLS version would be almost double that for the 130-ton version.

Revised bill for one SLS launch (one launch every 4 years):

Orion capsule with service module and escape system $1 billion
SLS first (core) stage, and upper stage $1 billion
Annual operating and launch facility maintenance costs $8 billion (cost over 4 years)
1/7 share of development cost $4.3 billion
TOTAL $14.3 billion cost per launch



<snip>

TexasTowelie

(111,915 posts)
10. Absolutely fricking amazing!
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 06:08 AM
Aug 2013

It might be too early to make this statement, but it looks like Elon Musk will be the greatest conceptual brain of this century.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
12. One other thing that's great about this,
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:47 AM
Aug 2013

is that Musk is a billionaire that actually puts his wealth to productive use. The rest seem like nothing more than currency geeks, always collecting and never doing anything with their collections.

I hope he inspires the few other open-minded currency-collectors to realize the better potentials of their collections.

(I'll have to watch the videos later.)

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
14. As someone who has been reading SF for over 50 years, all I can say is...
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 12:04 PM
Aug 2013

It's about fucking time!

Between this and that last Mars landing, we're getting a heaping helping of the future these days.
Wow. Way to go, gals and guys, way to go!

RebelOne

(30,947 posts)
16. I have been reading SF since I was 15, and I am 74.
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:29 PM
Aug 2013

I am a lot older than you and dreamed of the time when humans would reach the moon. This a real milestone toward space travel. My mother would say that I was reading too much SF and it would never happen. When the astronauts landed on the moon, I couldn't resist calling her to say, "i told you it would happen."

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
23. Multiple engines on gimbals, would be my educated guess.
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 03:46 PM
Aug 2013

Even the Saturn 5 had gimbals for the first stage engines. Solid rocket engines don't have gimbals that I know of, just liquid fuel engines.

Also, considering how short the burning-exhaust is, I'd say they were using quite a few smaller engines.

daleo

(21,317 posts)
21. It reminds one of a science fiction movie sequence
Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:02 PM
Aug 2013

As noted, though, using this method to decelerate and land on another planet would require a lot of fuel, which would be difficult and expensive to get out of Earth's gravity well.

Maybe it has military applications I.e. missile program.

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