AP-NORC Poll: Parents back high-stakes testing

[alp227]

Source: AP

Often criticized as too prescriptive and all-consuming, standardized tests have support among parents, who view them as a useful way to measure both students' and schools' performances, according to an Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research poll.

Most parents also say their own children are given about the right number of standardized tests, according to the AP-NORC poll.

They'd like to see student performance on statewide exams used in evaluating teachers, and almost three-quarters said they favored changes that would make it easier for schools to fire poorly performing teachers.

"The tests are good because they show us where students are at, if they need help with anything," said Vicky Nevarez, whose son Jesse just graduated from high school in Murrieta, Calif. "His teachers were great and if there were problems, the tests let me know."

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-norc-poll-parents-back-high-stakes-testing

[JCMach1]

1. Why parents and politicians should stay out of education...

[alp227]

2. What? Parents shouldn't be involved in public education?

So get rid of PTAs just because of ill informed parents?

[JCMach1]

6. Education policy....

of course, it is the MSM that helps spread the political lie that testing is 'the solution' to our issues in education...

[Fearless]

3. Parents are wrong.

[xchrom]

4. as they can often be.

'parents'{white ones} also support 'meritocracy' -- as long as it benefits white kids.

[bemildred]

5. Classic PR mumble-mumble poll bullshit. nt

[My Pet Goat]

7. Things you should cite from the article

The survey was sponsored by the Joyce Foundation, which works to promote policies that improve the quality of teachers, including the development of new teacher evaluation systems, enhance early reading reforms and encourage innovation in public schools.

Translation: The poll with question carefully tailored to get the results this testing company wanted was taken over and over again until they got the outlier results they wanted.

[My Pet Goat]

8. Joyce Foundation = ?

The survey was sponsored by the Joyce Foundation, which works to promote policies that improve the quality of teachers, including the development of new teacher evaluation systems, enhance early reading reforms and encourage innovation in public schools.

= A standardized testing company or lobbyist. I don't even have to look "Joyce Foundation" up. So very predictable.

[frazzled]

10. It's not wise to be talking education and not have the sense to look something up

The Joyce Foundation is a philanthropic foundation that is well-known in the Midwest. I've known them best for their remarkable arts grants--to distinguished artists of color for artworks in underserved communities.

Since 2003, the Joyce Awards have distributed $1.8 million to support the commissioning of new artwork from artists of color in Chicago, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Detroit, Milwaukee, and Minneapolis/St. Paul. In those ten years, Joyce Award recipients have flourished both nationally and within their communities.

After 10 successful years, the Joyce Awards are changing the way communities interact with art again. In recognition of the fact that art is happening everywhere, all the time, the Joyce Awards will now support the commissioning of new work from diverse artists no matter where they choose to work—in the gallery, on the stage, in the church, the schoolyard, the prison, the community center.

- See more at: http://www.joycefdn.org/programs/culture/joyce-awards/#sthash.8sEM6gz6.dpuf

They've also been big in anti-gun initiatives, and recently worked with Joe Biden. They do environmental grants ... and yes, education grants. Sort of like the Pew Foundation.

Just because you don't like a poll's result you ignorantly surmise that the Joyce Foundation is a "testing company." Go back to school. Or school yourself by googling the Foundation to find out what it is, before you post an embarrassing thing:

http://www.joycefdn.org/newsroom/?CategoryId=11&pg=5&F_All=y

[My Pet Goat]

11. Don't act like a naif.....

Fund research, policy development, and advocacy to support the development of new teacher evaluation systems in Chicago, Indianapolis and Minneapolis.
- See more at: http://www.joycefdn.org/programs/education/teacher-quality/#sthash.u9Um5y92.dpuf

Support research on job protections and pensions in other sectors, and development of policies to reform tenure, teacher compensation, and retirement options.
- See more at: http://www.joycefdn.org/programs/education/teacher-quality/#sthash.u9Um5y92.dpuf

From their own "teacher quality" page: http://www.joycefdn.org/programs/education/teacher-quality/

You need to understand that an organization can have laudable goals in one area and not another. Put your damn thinking cap on.

[frazzled]

12. Lots of foundations support such research

That does not make them "testing companies." They're a charitable foundation.

Don't be naive. Perhaps some remedial reading comprehension should be part of your daily activities. And put your thinking cap on while you're studying. Because they fund research on guns and gun violence doesn't make them a gun manufacturer (or for that matter, a gun confiscator).

You may disagree with the grants they are making for research, but to call them a "testing company" is sheer idiocy.

[My Pet Goat]

14. You know not of which you speak....

First, quit repeating my lines.

Second, their website admits they are involved in developing teacher evaluation systems and that means testing to me. By all means I would like them to clear up what they mean by "evaluation," but they won't. Calling me an idiot for that is overstating it a bit (and intellectually rather unappealing), don't you think?

The real question is to what degree they are bound up with the pro-standardized testing movement. Their PR mumbo-jumbo web site doesn't make that clear, but it is very suspicious that they obliquely refer to "teacher evaluation systems" and not to specific types of evaluation systems they prefer. They also lose credibility as a poll sponsor of course.

[frazzled]

15. Please: research means research ...

not playing out one's preconceived preferences. To research the issue of teacher evaluation systems means to study what does and doesn't work. And it's not the foundation that is doing this research. They provide grants to other institutions to conduct research. It should not surprise you that you cannot find the systems they "prefer." Because that is not part of their mission. Their mission is to fund the research.

Neither are they involved in "developing" teacher evaluation systems themselves (they are focused on the research and policy development). They are not even singularly focused on this issue. As I mentioned, their funding initiatives cross a number of areas, including the arts, the environment, gun violence, etc.

Be reasonable here, and look at specific education grants. They're all over the spectrum, but note that, for instance, they fund the Center For American Progress in this area, the nation's largest liberal/progressive think tank:

Center for American Progress
Washington, DC $150,000
To continue development and advancement of policy changes that support improvements in human capital systems throughout the country and access to effective teachers for all students. (1 yr)

There's grants to places you won't like and ones to places you might like. Foundations such as Pew, Ford, and others have been involved in funding research and policy for decades and decades and decades. You can apply for a grant yourself if you think you have a fundable project in one of their areas. Go ahead.

[tomg]

16. I looked into the Joyce Foundation a

little. In a lot of areas - you mention arts funding - they are spot on, and that also includes gun violence and the environment . In the area of education, though, I checked out their program director and some others and their general direction in research. The folks do come out of the "reform" and Charter school movement, and were closely connected to the Thomas B. Fordham Foundation which is a very conservative educational think tank that focuses on education "reform."

I can't speak to this particular poll, and my point is not to knock a foundation that - in other areas - is pretty solid. What we are seeing is the systematic defunding and eventual dismantling of public education in this country. Unfortunately it is something that not only have many dems gone along with ( Arne Duncan, Rahm Emmanuel, and the list goes on), but are actively fostering.

Again, the Joyce Foundation seems very solid in a number of areas. I would not say education, though.

[frazzled]

17. Thank you for an informed and rational response

I tend to agree that their education focus is tipped too far in the direction of "reform" and "charter," even as its other areas of funding are more progressive.

However, it's not surprising to find this kind of direction in foundations: their mission is to find new answers to problems, not to fund status quos (and the reform/charter movement is just the latest in a long line of trendy educational responses). Decades-worth of other kinds of educational initiatives failed in large urban districts like Chicago's; these types of experiments will probably fail too. And foundations will move on to other attempts to improve the outcomes of public education.

[My Pet Goat]

13. Here's a real Joyce gem for you....teachers don't prefer defined contribution retirement plans!

Who would have thought? Interesting read...in terms of how it is written in the same, typical mumbo-jumbo style. I can't stand it when organizations try to hide the ball.

A majority of teachers (75 percent) transferred to the hybrid plan, as did new hires (60 percent). Goldhaber and Grout found that transitioning to the hybrid system had no negative impact on the quality of the teacher workforce.

http://www.joycefdn.org/the-right-pension-plan-attracts-and-retains-the-best-teachers-/

[brentspeak]

20. Translation: You are a shill for the charter school industry

And paper over your RW talking points with some carefully crafted liberal-sounding sentiments ("I've known them best for their remarkable arts grants--to distinguished artists of color for artworks in underserved communities.&quot

Par for the course for your usual pro-Wall Street spiel here on DU.

[Jackpine Radical]

9. I would of course assume that the majority of parents have had

at least one graduate level course in test & measurement theory, can discuss the different kinds of validity and reliability, know things like the definitions of a True Score and a standard error of measurement, are familiar with the properties of the various tests being employed, etc. Otherwise, I'm not sure exactly what value their opinions have.

[wordpix]

18. "They'd like to see student performance used in evaluating teachers." How about as parent

evaluations? How about as neighborhood/community/poverty assessments?

Here are some facts, from one who has been in the education field for over 20 years:

1) Teachers get (many, numerous, some, a substantial number of ) students at the beginning of the year who are anywhere from one to several years or more behind in skills and content knowledge. It's a tragedy that age promotion exists to the extent it does, but it's a fact.

2) It is virtually impossible for even an excellent teacher to catch such students up to peers who possess skills at grade level, especially if the students have fallen years behind in skills and knowledge.

3) Parents are a key factor in student success. Parents in poverty who are stressed, and/or those who abuse substances, and/or those who do not value education themselves are either too overwhelmed or don't care if their kids don't do homework/can't read, write or do math.

4) Some kids have so many problems at home that school problems are small in comparison. Some are homeless and some are hungry. See above.

5) Yes, there are some poor to mediocre teachers who need mentoring and further training. But most public schools don't provide it.

[One_Life_To_Give]

19. +1