Tasered woman now brain dead
A woman shot with a Taser by a trooper in Florida, falls into a coma, now brain dead. Jane Velez-Mitchell speaks with her parents.
http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t3#/video/bestoftv/2012/02/21/exp-jvm-taser-coma.hln
Local news story with (disturbing) video of tasing:
A young woman was left with severe brain damage and in a vegetative state after being tasered by a police officer. The officer's dash cam shows 20-year-old Danielle Maudsley handcuffed, as she ran away from the Florida Highway Patrol officer. She was only feet away when she is tasered in the back. The victim collapsed and her head slammed to the ground.
http://www.wcti12.com/news/30482005/detail.html
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CaliforniaPeggy
(149,639 posts)This is so out of control, the use of these tasers like this.
Horrifying.
Joe Shlabotnik
(5,604 posts)Another bullshit case of cops investigating cops. The video was tragic and sickening. I can't imagine what this tiny 20 year old girl did that was so terrible, requiring her being shot in the back with a tazer from a 200 lb cop.
Orrex
(63,216 posts)Last edited Tue Feb 21, 2012, 10:24 AM - Edit history (1)
.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)
boppers
(16,588 posts)She wasn't complying. Was he supposed to "love her to the ground" somehow?
jschurchin
(1,456 posts)Be a fucking man and take her down and hand cuff her. Now she is brain dead because he was a pussy.
And you defend his action..........you must be a heck of a man.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)...not the tase that appears to have killed her. "Taking her down" as you say, might have caused her to bang her head on cement in the same way. Tasing in theory, is less violent than a physical tackle.
BTW--calling someone by the name of the female anatomy and thus insulting women, is not how any man I know talks.
jschurchin
(1,456 posts)Why don't you go tell her parents that. I'm sure it would make them feel much better.
Take a walk outside your glass tower for a moment. The vast majority of the women I know would agree that a 265 lb. man needing to use a Tazer on a 100lb woman is indeed a pussy.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)Your body's reflex is to buffer a fall by putting your hands in front of you. She lost complete control of her body once she was tased. Even the reflex worked against her. I'm guessing that she had just enough time to begin to turn around to see what struck her before she lost control of her lower body. Hence, falling on her back, with legs twisted.
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)At that point, tazing her is just a labor-saving device. She might have hit her head on the ground otherwise, but at least the cop would have been more in control of preventing it, and she would have had control of her head movement.
It's simply ridiculous to try to justify this. The cop did the lazy thing. Debilitating electric shocks are not justifiable when the suspect is handcuffed, and especially not when handcuffed and fleeing.
boppers
(16,588 posts)
1monster
(11,012 posts)cbrer
(1,831 posts)Is smoke screen.
You don't own the exclusive definition of what a man is.
Your definition is warped. Yeah, tackle the shit out of her! Couple of shots in the ribs should calm her ass down.
No one was defending anything. I would be more willing to assume that he's trying to avoid a communicable disease (bites, look it up), or a lawsuit.
This was a tragedy. Horrible. But THAT'S what makes the news.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)boppers
(16,588 posts)Or, as others have suggested, shooting her down could have worked, too, and is SOP for escaping prisoners.... which is what she was.
Did you even watch the video?
"Or, as others have suggested, shooting her down could have worked, too, and is SOP for escaping prisoners.... which is what she was."
Quoting for posterity. This site sometimes. Embarrassing.
boppers
(16,588 posts)What do you suggest we do during attempted prison breaks, ask them to voluntarily go to "time-out"?
The "shooting down" sub-thread has been a sad example of reading comprehension, mocking all the magical ways a drugged up, running, arrested person could be peacefully stopped.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Poor guy, so helpless. If he is that scared of a young woman in handcuffs, he sure is in the wrong profession. He should be charged with manslaughter at least. There is simply no justification for this.
boppers
(16,588 posts)I didn't see that in testimony.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)a helpless woman when all he had to do was to grab her by the arm and problem solved? I know cops who do that every day, but then they're not cowards.
boppers
(16,588 posts)She was still in Taser and fire-arm range.
She was a danger to the public, a multiple felon, was high at the time, was a car thief, who was in two vehicle accidents already that *very* day.
She tried to flee, *after* being placed in custody, he gave chase, hit her with some amperage to stop her running.
"helpless"? I think not.
NeoConsSuck
(2,544 posts)she was 100 pounds, and handcuffed..
Do you even think before you post?
NickB79
(19,253 posts)And in so doing, you caused a pile-up that resulted in injuries and deaths, then what?
Yes, a felon high on drugs and running into traffic is a danger to the public.
rocktivity
(44,576 posts)Last edited Sun Sep 11, 2022, 12:05 PM - Edit history (6)
But having been formally taken into custody complete with handcuffs, she shouldn't have run. And she certainly shouldn't have left the scene of TWO accidents -- which she probably wouldn't have done if she hadn't been driving with a suspended license...
rocktivity
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)boppers
(16,588 posts)I do like the idea of "NERF(tm) cars", where hit-and-run doesn't occasionally kill people.
I have some friends that would still be alive in that world.
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)Or perhaps Tased to death.
I see all sorts of problems with such a policy.
boppers
(16,588 posts)When they try to run, they should be slowed down.
In this case, a long chain of crime killed a person in an (I assume) accidental suicide.
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)But as for responsibility, the greater burden is on the officer. He's the one society has armed and granted discretionary use of his tools/weapons.
I don't expect cops to be superhuman, but I think I have a right to expect them to have a more informed, "wise" understanding of the weapons than, say, an amateur?
red dog 1
(27,820 posts)....and she was driving with a suspended license too.............Does that give that lazy, fat, donut-eater the right to taze her without even trying to run after her?
she was just scared......She wasn't a dangerous felon......She didn't deserve to suffer permanent brain damage for a couple of misdemeanors!
Response to Joe Shlabotnik (Reply #4)
Post removed
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)It really is horrifying. That girl only weighed 100 pounds, the trooper weighed 267. She was only a few feet away from his lazy ass. He obviously just did not want to bother to run and grab her. So he killed her.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)You know, I teach my kids that whenever you get caught for by the police for two hit-and-runs while driving without a license, it's probably just best not to try to escape from the police substation. Because accidents happen.
But then I also tell them not to do cocaine and oxycodone.
Seriously though, IF the cop could have caught the thin, drugged up woman in a foot race, it would have been just barely and he would have probably grabbed her in an awkward way and they both would have gone down hard.
It is a shame she fell and hit her head, but I'm having trouble blaming the cop. Or should cops just let everyone escape?
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)There is enough data out there to understand what a taser will do to a grown man. Someone fleeing would lose muscle control and what could happen, was likely to happen. Bad judgment call on the cop's side. And he should be required to lose weight and pass a field test. He obviously didn't think he could outrun her.
thedude333
(6 posts)She faces the consequences to her own actions. She put herself in the position for this to happen.
SemperEadem
(8,053 posts)Last edited Tue Feb 21, 2012, 01:08 PM - Edit history (1)
"she shouldn't have been wearing a short skirt.
she shouldn't have been walking in the parking lot alone.
she shouldn't have stayed with a guy who hit her.
she shouldn't have been traveling alone.
that's what she gets. don't ask me to feel sorry for her--I'd have tazed her myself were I the cop"
and we wonder why there is a war on women going on.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)Response to SemperEadem (Reply #79)
Post removed
rexcat
(3,622 posts)I could think of another web site the poster might be more comfortable but not worth the effort.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Your post is inappropriate, regardless of who you are referencing with your ugly name-calling.
xxqqqzme
(14,887 posts)rethuglican father speaking. If she had worked out, put some 'meat on her bones' and said her prayers at night this never would have happened!
SaintPete
(533 posts)this has NOTHING to do do with her gender, and your trying to equate this to rape justification is disgusting
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)Her killer decided he was to be the judge, jury and executioner.
SemperEadem
(8,053 posts)NOTHING she did rises to the level of death.
any force that results in death is called involuntary manslaughter in legal parlance.
the fat-assed cop had access to a radio and dispatcher if she were to escape--and call down choppers and dogs to track her as well as more man-power. An unarmed woman with her hands cuffed behind her back... and how far, exactly could she have run? To the next state? With her hands cuffed behind her back?
No, and seeing that you can't discern the difference that rape is about power and force (making the woman do what the man wants her to do against her will) and not about the sex act, you can be disgusted until times get better. IDGAF.
24601
(3,962 posts)things tied to violence against women to the gender-neutral act of attempting to flee police - in fact it's probably more stereotypically male to run from police. Your "argument" demeans women.
Edited for grammar
SemperEadem
(8,053 posts)your interpretation of my argument demeans women.
grow up and learn the difference.
24601
(3,962 posts)The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)That's an extension of your logic.
crim son
(27,464 posts)Seriously, the consequence of running, handcuffed, away from an officer, should not include death as a result of an action taken by that officer. End of story.
boppers
(16,588 posts)In short, it *could* include death, if the officer believes that more deaths are likely if a person escapes. If not, lethal force is more questionable.
Read up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_v._Garner
In this case, the woman involved was arrested for two hit-and-run incidents, and was thus a suspect in using lethal force on multiple occasions.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)As Justice White said in Tennessee v. Garner, the court must weigh the nature of the intrusion of the suspect's Fourth Amendment rights against the government interests which justified the intrusion. The use of deadly force against a subject is the most intrusive type of seizure possible, because it deprives the suspect of his life, and White held that the state failed to present evidence that its interest in shooting unarmed fleeing suspects outweighs the suspect's interest in his own survival.
Here, the girl was involved in car accidents---before her arrest. She was not about to get in a car nor threatening anyone's life at the time she was tasered. She was handcuffed. She was incapable of using lethal force. She was not jumping over a fence fleeing a robbery like the suspect in Tennesse v. Garner.
rexcat
(3,622 posts)not!
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)some empathy. Look it up. It's a trait that is missing in R-cons. I am not saying you are a R-con, heaven forbid, however your attitude is suspicious. Good luck to yeah.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)Don't look for pity when it does.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)entitled to a trial, then there must be a conviction by a jury, and only then, does the law allow for the death penalty, which I completely oppose btw.
This cop became judge and jury and for that he should be charged with attempted manslaughter.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)there isn't a good chance that she will hit her head on the ground and be put into a vegetative state?
How is being tackled to the ground and having a large weight fall on you more safe or gentle than just falling to the ground??
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)she weighs 100lbs...all he had to do was grab her.
boppers
(16,588 posts)She was running. He was running behind her. He wasn't in "grabbing distance" until the taser stopped her running.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)if he wasn't too fat and out of shape, and possibly caught up to her. i supposed she may have been a fast runner, i would think the handcuffs would slow her down a bit.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)Nobody's saying that the cop should have lunged into a football-style tackle and slammed her to the ground. But surely if the cop had been in decent shape, he should have been able to catch up to her and grab hold of her.
madmom
(9,681 posts)this story. Was this girl already convicted of these charges? Had she had her day in court or was she just charged and not yet been found guilty?
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)from a police substation as they transferred her. She was found to have drugs in her system.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Kellerfeller
(397 posts)Talk about a stupid post. Congrats on being today's winner.
The point is that she likely
A) wasn't thinking as rationally as a undrugged person and was therefore more dangerous/unpredictable.
B) likely had more strength/energy than an undrugged person.
eppur_se_muova
(36,269 posts)Kellerfeller
(397 posts)It didn't make the post any better.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Kellerfeller
(397 posts)If you read further, there was more.
SemperEadem
(8,053 posts)the presence of drugs negates her humanity, I see. That's all it takes to fork it over and be prey to aggression by a fat cop because, hey, the drug-addled whore deserved it.
the paternalistic bs some people spew here amazes me.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)the cops should just let everyone escape or that a 267 lb man should tackle a 100 lb woman, is ridiculous. That's called a straw-man argument. I believe a person with any kind of empathy at all (leaves out all R-cons) would recognize that this policeman didnt need to use a taser. I am not surprised you're having trouble blaming the cop. But I appreciate hearing your views and hopefully you will learn something here.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Kellerfeller
(397 posts)The Backlash Cometh: If he had tackled her, she would have had a chance to buffer the fall with her cuffed hands.
The Backlash Cometh: Nobody would support a taser over a conventional tackling.
And then there is the "grab her" crowd
SunSeeker: He obviously just did not want to bother to run and grab her.
Noiretextatique: he didn't even have to tackle her she weighs 100lbs...all he had to do was grab her.
Kurmudgeon: Maybe the cop would have been better to just chase after her and grab her then?
Fortunately we have someone with a clue as well:
Snake Alchemist: "You ever try to restrain someone who is trying run purposefully into a busy road? Would have been much better to just throw a baton toward her legs, or maybe shoot her in the ankle."
As Snake points out, trying to capture a 100 lb person who is intent on getting away from you is not as easy as you seem to think.
Even you said they should have just let her run and then they probably would be able to catch up with her. Granted, if she had caused an accident, hurt herself, or even gotten away because she's a great runner, you would still blame the police, right?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)But it doesnt matter. Interesting how some "Democrats" here are defending the authoritarian over the victim. For them, I guess they want to believe that the authoritarian police will keep them safe. It doesnt matter what the police do to "bad" people as long as they dont do it to us. He punished her for not obeying him. More and more that results in death. Probably the only reason she didnt get a clip worth of slugs in her back was that she was handcuffed.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)here will defend criminals (and yes, she is a criminal for the illegal drug use --and I am for legalizing-- and attempting to escape) over cops every time.
Sorry, but I didn't realize anarchy was a platform in the party. I always thought cops were an important part of society to keep order and, I don't know, keep people from driving around smashing other people's property. If you want a society without laws or enforcement, feel free to advocate for that. But you won't have me on your side. If you don't have enforcement, there is no sense in having laws.
Funny how some want an "authoritarian" gov't when it come to policing capitalism, CEOs, and banks and even controlling others in things such as home-schooling and vaccines but not so much when it comes to things they want to do. It's almost contradictory......
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)deserves what she got. My brother in law thinks the same. If someone is arrested they are guilty and can be treated like they have no rights. I will defend citizens rights. Arresting officers have no right to use whatever force they want.
Believing in regulations and the enforcement of regulations and laws applies the same to corporate crime as civil crime. But our society let's corporate crime off with slaps on the wrist, but if you are poor, bingo, you are a drug user and you get treated as if you have no rights. They kick in your door and shoot your dog and say "sorry wrong house". They kill mentally ill persons that dont obey their commands. One even shot a man that was handcuffed and laying prone on the ground. Near me they shot a mentally disturbed man because he refused to come down out of a tree. Another because the officer thought he was going for a gun even tho there were no guns in the house and the man was not dangerous. It's open season on poor people. And of course the wood carver in Seattle was blown away with a 9mm glock because he didnt obey the officer in the seconds given. These people might be poor, drug users or alcoholics, but they dont deserve to be murdered in cold blood.
I want the police to enforce the law, not met out punishment.
The right-wing will tell us that she was one of the dregs of society and her life means nothing. That the police can use whatever level of force they wish. I disagree.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)we have it on tape that she tried to escape.
We also have it on record that she had illegal drugs in her system.
That's plenty good for me. If you still have doubt in your mind, then there's not much (even a trial) that would convince you.
I've never said, nor do I believe she "deserved" to die for it. Don't try to put words in my mouth. From what I've read, you simply aren't good enough at it.
Yerp, cops make mistakes. Welcome to humanity. Sometimes the wrong door will get kicked in. Sometimes a human cop gets trigger happy. Lots of times the "poor girl" doesn't even get caught.
You really should only use words you know. Like "murder". Murder involves forethought and usually malice. The cop had neither. He had no intent or idea she would end up dead.
I would love to know how cops are supposed to enforce the law if you don't want them capturing people. Or just capturing people who give themselves up and come without a fight.
I'm not sure why you listen to the right-wing so much to use as a test on your thoughts, but I know my position is based on my observation and thought. And whether it was someone who was poor (I have no idea what the girl's financial status was) or some celebrity, it still would have been an unfortunate accident and the cop was using reasonable tools to do his job.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)Yes, she was drugged up. Arrestees often are. Lucid, reasonable people tend not to get arrested. Cops are trained to deal with this reality and are supposed to be in good enough shape to subdue your average arrestee without resorting to bullets or immobilizing tasers. He didn't even TRY to grab your. He just tased her knowing she would drop like a sack of rocks on that pavement.
That could have been your sister, brother, son. We all have troubled people in our families who get caught up in the legal system. We shouldn't have to fear for their lives once the police get involved. Cops are supposed to de-escalate the situation, not make it worse.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)Seriously, all the guy had to do was make an effort. All he had to do was take one of his fat arms and reach for one of her arms--both of her arms were handcuffed together and thus if he grabbed one he had both, which is my point. It would have been easy for anyone of reasonable fitness to stop this 100 pound girl. Cops are supposed to be fit, it's a job requirement. He didn't even try.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Would have been much better to just throw a baton toward her legs, or maybe shoot her in the ankle.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)And I've never had to use a baton or shoot him.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)on drugs and truly trying to get away from you?
(Please, please, please, say "never"
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)I imagine time-out has a whole other meaning with that kid.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)Cops are supposed to be able to handle that. This cop did not even try. Why are you on DU?
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)Which is why they have tools like...a Taser--to handle uncooperative, irrational people.
How much do you think cops should put themselves at risk in trying to subdue irrational people when there are tools such as a Taser available?
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)I don't think him tasing a 200 lb man swinging his fists at him would have been unreasonable, but this was a handcuffed 100 lb girl who was not attacking him. He was not at risk. He should have just tried to grab her.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)Tasers and pepper spray are not just for self-defense. Maybe for civilians, but cops and the military use them to control uncooperative people.
Ever grabbed an irrational person hyped up on drugs? A hundred lb person is not that easy to control, especially if you want to avoid getting bitten. And if you are going to use the force to get control of them, there is a reasonable chance you will hurt them anyway.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)You're in essense saying it was ok to tase and pepper spray all those OWS protestors who did not move their tents or get up off the ground when asked. Tasers are not supposed to be used in these situations. Again, he did not even try to control her, he just tased her. Seriously, you think this 267 lb man could not just grab this little thing and throw her down on the grass behind him and just sit on her until other cops arrived--which would have been within seconds since they were right outside the station as the video show. She might have gotten some cracked ribs, a bloody nose, but she'd be alive and no one would be accusing him of excessive force, or at least I wouldn't.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)In the UC Davis case, I think it would much more reasonable to have simply peeled them off one-by-one. If the person resisted too much (i.e. where someone might get hurt) then pepper spray or even tasing (with warning to all of those touching the person that they would also feel the effects) might have then been reasonable.
And no, I saw that the guy could not just grab her. She was quick.
And if he sat on her and cracked her ribs or bloodied her nose, people would be screaming that it was excessive force and that she could have easily been subdues with a Taser.
If she had fallen slightly differently, she would have been fine and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
In general, Tasing is safer for everyone involved. Why do you think they started using them in the first place?
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)You don't know what you're talking about.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)See, my posts can be as informative as yours! 
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Kellerfeller
(397 posts)She darted quickly. He didn't have a chance to grab for her.
"We shouldn't have to fear for their lives once the police get involved." You are absolutely correct. However, we also shouldn't fight the cops unless they are clearly doing something illegal. Clearly she didn't deserve to go into a coma. However, because she chose to run, she put herself and the cops in a situation where they had to do something.
And the cop SHOULD be in good enough shape to catch her. Many aren't. Heck, many in our military aren't. And those physical standards and testing are more rigorous than what cops face. If we demand that cops be in good shape, then we need to set that as a standard and realize that in this country of ever-growing waistlines, it is going to be more and more difficult to fill the cop ranks.
She just as easily (or more easily) be in the same state because a cop had to tackle her to the ground. Even if the cop had been able to grab the cuffs, she easily could have broken her arm and the same cop-haters would be on here screaming ABUUUSE.
The Taser by itself is a non-lethal tool for controlling people. As with ALL means of controlling people, accidents can happen and sometimes they can be fatal.
I just see this as an unfortunately accident that doesn't happen 99.9% of the time.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)I agree with you that cops should be in good shape. It IS a job requirement. I don't think that requirement will "make it more difficult to fill the cop ranks." Especially now, with all the young cops laid off due to all the Republican governors' war on unions (last hired first fired).
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)"Previous Defense Department studies have found that 75 percent of young people are ineligible for military service,"
"Of some 32 million Americans now in this group, the Army deems the vast majority too obese, too uneducated, too flawed in some way, according to its estimates for the current budget year"
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,90736,00.html
You are correct that there currently isn't a shortage. But if they cracked down on fat cops, it is not unforeseeable in the future.
Granted, I still think they should...
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)You just said that there currently isn't a shortage and that "they should" (be required to be fit?). I don't see disagreement there...unless you just like to disagree.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)Wait, that's agreeing with you again.
No, I don't like to disagree. AHhhhhhh!
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)Got to control people. Kill them if you have to...but control them.
The cop who did this was clearly too fat and was letting his laziness get in the way of good judgement.
This killer cop needs to be arrested. His boss needs to be fired for keeping him on duty when he obviously is not fit for duty.
The family of this poor girl should become very wealthy from this and maybe it will stop.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)was likely the person who destroyed other innocent people's property. It has not been proven, but it is likely given the circumstances.
She was also violating our society's laws (even if I don't agree with them) regarding drugs as well as escaping from the police when arrested with due process.
Why are you wanting to control the cop's weight? It's all about controlling people, isn't it?
If you want a society with no laws or enforcement, feel free to advocate for that. You won't have me on your side.
jschurchin
(1,456 posts)They should kill every American who commits a traffic violation.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)extreme hyperbole because they apparently don't have a valid point to make.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)comment. An unarmed, handcuffed, 100 lb woman was such a threat that she deserved this?! Tasers are not innocuous.
That momentary taser-induced loss of muscle control caused her to drop like a rock. Have you ever bumped your head? Imagine it slamming the pavement.
She did not deserve this. I fear police and the police state we as a nation have become. This was excessive and unnecessary force.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)If they had intentionally hurt her like that, that would be different. But that is not the case here.
Did she deserve to be Tased? Well, yeah. She was trying to while being transferred from one jail to another. If they had tackled her, the likelyhood was that she would be hurt worse than if Tased. That's why they adopted Tasers in the first place. It generally keeps people from getting hurt.
Unfortunately, she fell in a manner that effectively killed her.
Drunk people fall all of the time. Sometimes they hit there head and sometimes they die. Did they deserve to die? Of course not. This is a similar case.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)shoot her in the shoulder where she would have spun safely to the ground. She may have had extensive shoulder injury, but she'd be alive.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)is what caused the head injury. She was hit with the taser dart, then spun around and fell backwards to the ground - hitting her head. So shooting her in the shoulder, spinning her around might well have caused the same (head) injuries and added shoulder injuries on top of the shoulder injuries.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)
The key is to just wing her with the bullet so she spins 360 degrees.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)Like the caricature videos of right wing preachers it is hard to tell sarcasm from real suggestions. Just take a gander at the rest of the thread...
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)according to the rules they set forth or so they claim.
I personally dont agree because she was handcuffed already and I doubt she would be getting to far so I dont think the tasering was justified in this case but thats just based on this brief video so I may be wrong.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)she tried to escape I wouldnt place any money on it.
DCKit
(18,541 posts)"Who could have seen this coming?" is not an excuse. It's obvious as hell that this is a probable outcome.
At my height and weight, my head would split open like a pumpkin after that kind of fall. You've got to wonder how many cases they've covered up.
classykaren
(769 posts)We also just had a officer run over and kill a man in a wheelchair . It happened at 4.20 am and they said he was wearing dark colored clothes an a street light was not working . One of the many many reasons I hate living here in Florida
Response to classykaren (Reply #13)
Post removed
secondvariety
(1,245 posts)Just last week,a young lady was shot in the head and died because some Hopalong Cassidy wannabe thought it would be ok to play with a 9mm at church. In God's house.
There isn't another state in the Union where this senseless bullshit happens on such a regular basis.
I got three more years till retirement and if I don't get tasered or run over by a cop or shot by some "law abiding" gun nut or by one of the other countless miscreants here or die of heat stroke, I'll consider myself blessed.
Florida is the absolute worst.
thedude333
(6 posts)He couldn't help where she fell. Maybe she shouldn't have been driving with a suspended licences. Maybe she shouldn't have been involved in two hit and runs. Maybe she shouldn't have been high on a couple of drugs. Oh yeah, yeah, it is the COPS fault this happened to her. It is just bad luck for her. SHE caused these actions to be taken, through HER choices.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)BlueIris
(29,135 posts)Tasers are no less damaging than other weapons, and its easier to justify their use.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)itself that caused the damage? If so then its hardly an accurate claim for you to make......after all a bullet to the back would be far more dangerous in most situations than a taser you would think.
Kurmudgeon
(1,751 posts)That should have been a bit less dangerous than pointing a weapon and pulling a trigger.
However did the police manage in the old days before they had a handy electro torture-execution device on their hip?
At least with a gun, they have a fair idea that they are going to cause serious harm when they use it.
Time to realize all a taser is, is an electric gun, and potentially just as dangerous as any other.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)BlueIris made about tasers being as dangerous as a gun because the fact is being shot by say a .357 is more likely to cause you or I more damage than being tasered would or atleast in most circumstances.
malaise
(269,054 posts)what exactly is the difference?
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)carries a higher % chance of instant death compared to the odds of hitting your head after being tasered but hey.....if you or others would prefer the bullet option and remove the taser option for police I am not going to argue over it.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Instead of being "investigated," and found to be 100% in the right by their co-workers in every single instance.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)what I was discussing but rather I was discussing the claim from BlueIris that tasers are just as bad as guns when the fact is that getting tasered has a lower chance of killing you than getting shot in the back.
Could the cop have chased her? Of course he could but as someone else pointed out on this thread she also could have tripped while running and busted her skull wide open just as well when she attempted to escape or if the officer had managed to tackle her she could have busted it then or the cop could have busted his.
There are just to many variables but the one thing that is clear is that she choose to try to escape the police they didnt force her to make the choice.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)And that is the whole and s um total of the deadly difference.
I want tasers banned. Completely. They are tools of execution and should not be used by any police officer ever.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)I thought the whole point of using tasers was to try and reduce the use of the guns?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)After all, the consequences for misuse of a gun were astronomically higher for the police. As opposed to "Oh, it's non-lethal, it won't hurt that 12 year old at all BZZZZZZZZTZ!"
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)a women of 20 years whos trying to escape, for example the child doesnt know better.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)That's a straw-man argument. Those werent his only options.
More and more people are being killed by police for not obeying. Many are not dangerous, but make a bad decision and end up dead. Some dismiss this because they cant handle the truth, they want to believe the police will make us safer, so they justify the police behavior. In Seattle not long ago, a native American wood carver was innocently walking across the street. He had his pocket knife out and a policeman saw him and ordered him to put the knife down. When he didnt respond after a few seconds, the officers blew his body apart in front of his friends. The wood carver was not dangerous but was probably drunk. The policeman didnt get charged. Now I am sure one can say, that that the wood carver deserved it because he didnt obey. Apparently rationalization is the key to happiness.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Link?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)if he wanted to stop her from escaping from custody.
#1 try to run her down to tackle her.
#2 taser her.
#3 shoot her with his pistol.
Each of those options has varies risks associated in order.
#1 risks are injury to the suspect by hitting her head also potential injury to the officer if he should hit his bonus risk of trying to subdue prisoner that way is if said prisoner manages to get ahold of officers sidearm or if said sidearm would go off if she tried and it managed to kill a pedestrian.
#2 tasering has risks of its own such as potential head injury such as she suffered when she fell also potential though rare risk of hitting a pedestrian by accident.
#3 shooting an escaping prisoner carries the most risks both for the person getting shot at if they are hit and the public at large if the officer should miss and hit a pedestrian.
In the end we need a way that a fleeing prisoner and or suspects can be brought down with the least risk to everyone involved including risk to the officers and that way does seem to be tasering.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)serious enough for him to shoot a taser. She wasnt a danger to anyone. Now she is brain dead. But some are determine to let the police act w/o any oversight and blame the victim. Sounds like my brother-in-law. Shoot first and ask questions later.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)"Cole, who at 267 pounds weighed about three times as much as Maudsley, told investigators he used his Taser because he was concerned one or both of them would be injured if he tackled her. He worried she was headed toward heavy traffic on U.S. 19."
NeoConsSuck
(2,544 posts)How conveiniently you forgot it:
#4: Run her down and *grab* her.
She was a handcuffed 100 pound woman. Why the fuck would you have to tackle her?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)For some, rationalization is the key to happiness.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)potentially causing harm to the officer or to the someone else if she attacked him to prevent him from taking her back.
So #4 already is covered via #1.
malaise
(269,054 posts)Let's have the difference.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)There are of course other options such as the cop could have chased her and caught her though its not without risk to injury to either her or the office still or the best option of them all would have been if she hadnt tried to escape.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)I can't think of anything worse than becoming alert from a fatal injury and realizing that your last minutes in life will be spent among the people who showed no concern for your life.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)But it doesn't explain the cop's behavior.
Very typical to dehumanize the victim in order to justify a force of action.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)damage would be minimized and she would have fallen softly to the ground.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)If he had winged her with a bullet, you'd get the same line of questions because the bottom line is that the cop should have made an effort to catch up to her. He was so close.
And I bet he realizes that today.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)Carolina
(6,960 posts)The sound might have stunned her long enough for his fat ass to grab her rather than kill her which, in the end, is what he did.
Tasers are not innocuous and too many police are bullies
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)
tclambert
(11,087 posts)Or if she had tripped. Running while handcuffed means she couldn't catch herself if she fell. If the officer's advocate raised that argument, then he can argue that the taser was irrelevant.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)
If, if, if. How about staying with the facts in one case? In our society accidents and murders and reckless use of weapons are all investigated and tried on the facts in the case, not on hypotheticals.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)they are for?" Catch 22.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)"Nearly 300 pound officer kills 90 pound women after tackling her"
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)A younger and better-in-shape cop would have just grabbed her by the collar.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)a 275 pound suspect..........think she should tackle him or use the taser? I'm leaning to letting her use the damn taser.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)It should go without saying that one of the reasons the girl is getting so much sympathy is because of her diminutive size compared to the size of the policeman. So the same reasoning would apply if the reverse would to occur.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts).................dont try to escape arrest.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)It will not surprise me if this incident results in changes to policy. For one thing, secure the prisoner. Someone should be disciplined for allowing her to slip away from a police station. When you have so many pulled in who are on drugs, this should be a given.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)boppers
(16,588 posts)Tasers generally don't break bones. Tackling does it all the time. (My humerus is recovering from a friendly tackling hug, it broke in two spots).
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Good grief, we have taser and gun crazy cops. They need to be held responsible.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)dont obey them. They will see that you regret it. Some die as this lady did.
He had options, but chose the taser. Bet he gets high-fives at the bar.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)A woman yes, a lady no.
truth2power
(8,219 posts)be charged with murder.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)with their hands manacled behind them, it is entirely unforeseeable that they will fall and have no way of keeping their head from slamming into the ground. It was obviously her fault because she should have been wearing an inflatable headbag.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)or atleast partly.
After all the police officer would have had zero authority to use the taser on her at all if she hadnt tried to escape.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)She may have been in pain, but she'd be alive.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)ran after her.
Instead of taking your option, he apparently was big enough to grab her by the scruff of the neck or by the collar of whatever she was wearing.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)less dead girl. Total win.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Hard to know now.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)she was trying to escape this wasnt a case of some innocent bystander who got tasered by accident or some 12 year old child this was a 20 year old women in handcuffs who made the choice to try and escape officers of the law.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)If the cop was too fat to catch up with her, he should have been on desk duty or in some other position.
Under no circumstances should they give an overweight cop the power to use tasers, guns, or any other type of weapon that he might choose to use instead of simply apprehending a fleeing suspect like a cop in good health. If he's too fat, take away his weapons and his temptation to use them.
Excessive force cannot be legitimately excused on the grounds that she was not an innocent bystander.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)SaintPete
(533 posts)it was irregular, but her hand were cuffed in front of her.
tclambert
(11,087 posts)Obviously, there was one more earlier off camera or she wouldn't have been able to make a break for it.
The tasering seemed just as reasonable as trying to grab her, and more reasonable than an open-field tackle on pavement. She fell badly. The back of her head smacked the pavement very hard. She could have done that if she had simply tripped. Back of the head to pavement often causes devastating injuries--eggshell fractures of the skull, subdural hematoma, cerebral contusion, etc.
She sat up shortly afterward. The cop showed reasonable concern at that point, however. He told her to lay down and called for EMS.
Sorry, I'm with the cop on this one. It's a terribly sad outcome. But the fault was hers.
SaintPete
(533 posts)have submitted multiple posts here on that subject
secondvariety
(1,245 posts)maybe cuffed her to an immoveable object.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)I don't think she had a choice. Her legs stopped functioning and her body reacted to the pain in her back, which is probably why she looks like she's turning around. Notice how her legs are twisted where she fell.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)the taser? Loss of control... ergo she dropped like a rock without any physiologic ability to break the fall and protect her head! tasing was proximate cause of the head fatal injury. And I say fatal because brain death is DEATH
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)On average a TASER IS less damaging than say a firearm. However, it should never be acceptable to use a weapon as a means of a restraint.
Iggo
(47,558 posts)They're the best!
Tripod
(854 posts)Not trying to be funny, but should every one wear a helmet. WTF. Taser is a good weapon.
Leftist Agitator
(2,759 posts)?
Tripod
(854 posts)I gave a friend of mine, and my daughter pepper spray for Christmas two years ago. What is interesting that last week my friend and I were going into court to celebrate our friends graduation from a Drug Court program. We went through the inspection situation with the court police. Her pepper spray is on here key ring. She was told that it was illegal in my state, but we were happy that he didn't take it from here. It was all most funny, twenty minutes of interigation.
Old and In the Way
(37,540 posts)Seems that selection overweights for militaryexperience and personalities that tend toward violent resolutions. Not saying that's the case with all police, but there definitely seems to be more anecdotal evidence of abuse against citizens. I have a daughter a few years older than Danielle...I can't imagine what these parents are going through.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts) Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)tclambert
(11,087 posts)but some departments actually seek out more "aggressive" types. Most have a mix. Hill Street Blues had Henry Goldblume and Howard Hunter? In different situations, either one may be too extreme.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Sort of like "jumbo shrimp" or "peacekeeper missiles," isn't it?
In every police force in this country, we have a situation hwere police officers are totally above the law; they do not ever see prison time. Ever. They are never convicted. even if htier department conducts an actual investigation, nothing comes of it, becuase hte training is siege mentality - us vs. them.
Further, both our judicial system and police forces are beholden to the private prison industry, and the police also receive beaucoup funds from Homeland Security in order to invest in the military-industrial complex.
I guess what I'm saying is.. .we do not, and will not have anything resembling a "responsible police department" anywhere in this country, until we enact measures to make the police responsible to the citizenry. This will not happen until we cut out all the special interest funds feeding our police - the prisons, the federal departments, the focus groups, etc. Basically, there needs to be a total overhaul.
tclambert
(11,087 posts)Budzyn and Nevers went to prison for killing Malice Green. I served on a jury where the plaintiff won a civil suit against two deputies who roughed him up unnecessarily. In Detroit, they occasionally complain about how much lawsuits against the police department costs the city. Internal Affairs does sometimes fire cops or send them to prison. Sometimes. Sometimes cops act like the guys in "The Shield" did and get away with it. That show was based on the illegal activities of real police in LA's Rampart division that came to light and resulted in suspensions and firings, but no felony convictions. And that's a miscarriage of justice, no question. But in New Orleans, the Danziger Bridge shootings following Hurricane Katrina resulted in 5 convictions of police officers.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)I have met many, many ex servicemen that I trust to be far more mentally stable than the average policeman.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Driving high on cocaine, fleeing 2 separate accidents, etc.
Old and In the Way
(37,540 posts)
qanda
(10,422 posts)But only one side has the legal authority to behave badly.
avebury
(10,952 posts)SaintPete
(533 posts)but reading the reports it's not likely they'll win
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Thus far, it appears that she was not sporting a weapon, just running away. I've read some comments on the local talking head site.
I've considered getting a taser for my own safety. I wonder what I will learn from the police who I hope will instruct me on how to use it.
I really see this arrest as not needing to include that shot. There would have been a way to subdue her without causing head trauma... It's hard to tell, but didn't they have physical requirements in this police dept? How many of these guys are out of shape patrolman?
That's fucking lazy, and I'm a person who would normally be happy with taser use in a police dept, given the alternative.
Crabby Appleton
(5,231 posts)Suspected of hit-and-run. Some further details at link below:
[link:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2104228/Pictured-The-moment-handcuffed-suspect-20-left-brain-dead-Tasered-trying-escape-police.html|
Response to SunSeeker (Original post)
Post removed
Vinca
(50,278 posts)They need to be used ONLY when there is likely immediate SERIOUS injury or death. Tasers have become weapons of convenience/intimidation/sport. Considering the young woman was handcuffed and tasered in the back, this should result in a murder charge but it probably won't in teabagger Florida.
>>>Cops need to be taught that tasers are not a weapon of convenience
They are now an offensive weapon, used for "compliance" - not a defensive weapon.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)That is about right. I really wish they learned to use force more carefully. Whether it be lethal or "non-lethal."
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)shoot her in the shoulder so she would have spun safely to the ground. The shoulder may have been badly damaged, but she would be alive.
thedude333
(6 posts)Throw the baton at her legs? Seriously, do you know you accuracy and velocity you would have to throw a baton to be able to stop someone from running. Don't be a dumb ass. How the hell do you know she would have "spun safely to the ground" That is impossible to know. I'm sure other people have been tasered in the back before without becoming brain dead. You can't make broad statements about something you know nothing about. Think before you comment.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)
He needed to wing her with a bullet just enough so she spun 360 degrees.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)My sympathies to her and her family.
Damn...
madokie
(51,076 posts)They did
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Sorry for the family, but freak accident any way you look at it.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)
how in the world could they control a 20 year old, 100 lb. woman? This happened in FLORIDA a few years ago.Fastcars
(204 posts)But in this case I think it wasmore of an easily avoidable accident. Like the earlier poster said, running in handcuffs isn't a good idea. Nothing good is going to come from it. There was a very good chance that she would fall and hit her head no matter how she was stopped. Tackling her would probably have a higher risk of significant injury to both her and the cop. I have seen officers throw their baton at the legs of someone running and that could have easily had the same result.
There are way too many stories of LEOs going way to far, this isn't one of them IMO.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)when she exited the doors of the precinct without looking and could very easily have been hit (that's how the dashcam got it on tape, and thank goodness that patrol car wasn't driving on that road at the time and smashed her). The highway was right there as well and she was blindly headed straight for it. The officer mentioned that he didn't feel he had any other choice for her safety, his and anyone driving on the street she ran right out on and the highway she was heading for. He was also well aware of her drugged condition and behavior before taking off and saw how she plowed right into that street without looking.
Honestly, I'm not seeing what else he could have done that wouldn't have likely ended the same way or worse.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)are presumed to intend the natural consequences of their voluntary actions.
SaintPete
(533 posts)that's just your opinion
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)SaintPete
(533 posts)there was a tragic aftermath, but that does not make the act "excessive force."
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)skii
(1 post)The suspect was arrested for allegedly leaving the scene of two traffic accidents earlier in the day, while driving with a suspended license, with cocaine and oxycodone in her system at the time of arrest, had just fled the FHP trooper barracks, while handcuffed and was finally tasered as she ran towards the direction of U.S.19.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2104228/Pictured-The-moment-handcuffed-suspect-20-left-brain-dead-Tasered-trying-escape-police.html
I get the outcome could be different, things could have been done to prevented this, but really. I see several of Ms.Maudsley's actions listed above as her not being too concerned with her welfare nor those around her. But we and her mother are simply going to blame the police and tasers? When does one have to finally take responsibility for their own actions? Or that your actions have consequences?
KansDem
(28,498 posts)Where have you been?
Taking responsibility for one's actions went out with TARP and 9/11.
But I applaud your sentiment...
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)meaning she needed to be convicted after a trial. until then, she is presumed to be innocent, so capital punishment is an inappropriate form of arrest. the cops need to take responsibility too, and stop pretending that anything they do is "appropriate."
dwindham
(2 posts)Seems like she showed some of the signs of drug-induced Excited Delirium. Which most of the time causes death. Not because of the Taser or instrument used, but because of the persons body temperature being over 106 degrees and cooking their brain. Sad thing is ive seen this happen and there is nothing that can be done unless you get them to a hospital within minutes. Most police do not know the signs and all they know is the person is hot to the touch. That leads them to believe that they are hot from the struggle, from running, or the drugs themselves. By the time EMS shows up, its too late, brain damage has already occured.
JJW
(1,416 posts)Time to lock up those tasers and sue the manufacturer.
Response to JJW (Reply #47)
Post removed
SaintPete
(533 posts)but the taser shot did NOT cause this woman her brain damage, that is nonsense.
Falling down and hitting her head caused the brain damage--an accidental injury she took while trying to ESCAPE FROM A POLICE STATION. This is incredibly tragic, but this outcome was completely within the woman's power to have avoided.
Further, this injury to her head could as easily have resulted from being tackled by the 265 arresting officer, or even by a 185 pound accountant. Hell, she could have tripped on her own shoelaces. The problem was that she RAN. She was out of control and a danger to the community. The only thing that would have 100% prevented this accident (other than being made to wear protective head gear just in case she fell while attempting escape...) was if she would have stayed put, and taken responsibility for what SHE had done.
She was being arrested for allegedly having caused two accidents, had cocaine and oxycodone in system while driving, and had an arrest record that included grand theft, auto theft, and burglary.
http://pcsoweb.com/InmateBooking/SubjectResults.aspx?id=1409860
http://pcsoweb.com/InmateBooking/SubjectResults.aspx?id=1456104
http://pcsoweb.com/InmateBooking/SubjectResults.aspx?id=1451540
If she had successfully escaped and in her drugged state, had caused a THIRD accident, this time with a fatality, what would we say then?
This woman was dangerous, and though it's horrible that her choices had such critical outcomes, they were her choices.
http://www.baynews9.com/article/news/2012/february/382985/Exclusive:-Video-released-after-trooper-cleared-in-tasing-of-fleeing-woman
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)Response to The Backlash Cometh (Reply #71)
Post removed
Response to Post removed (Reply #73)
SaintPete This message was self-deleted by its author.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)If you don't want to get informed, that's one thing. But insulting someone in an attempt to denigrate their argument is not acceptable.
You don't have to go far to find the answer just google it: "Touching a person with the prongs on the stun gun quickly immobilizes the attacker."
Immobilizes. It affects the nervous system. You don't have a choice. You lose control of your body. Your reasoning is faulty, in my opinion. I hope you're not a cop.
SaintPete
(533 posts)but I'm glad that the cop took steps to "quickly immobilizes the attacker."
Because that's what this person was...an attacker.
She wasn't attacking the cop, but she was attacking the safety (and potentially the life) of every innocent person that would have been in her way, should she have escaped.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)For the rest of us, the law is very strict. You have to feel an immediate threat in order to justify shooting someone. In fact, a bullet in the back is generally prima facie evidence that you were NOT in immediate harm.
She was handcuffed. All he had to do was reach out and grab her shoulder to bring her down.
SaintPete
(533 posts)she was "quickly immobilized"
This woman could have easily caused a death. She was frantic, on drugs, and with a history of car theft. Write the script...
And by the way, I very much consider multiple instances of "hit and run" with an automobile an attack.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)They had already apprehended her. They had handcuffed her. In that scenario the question should be, how did she get away? Is it possible that the cops wanted to teach her a lesson of their own, so they gave her an opportunity to run so they could tase her?
Yes. That seems likely in today's world.
SaintPete
(533 posts)Ok, we're done. I can't have a rational conversation under those ground rules.
Have a good day.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)In the least, there should be an investigation to determine how she managed to slip away.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)That much I'll agree with you on and I will say that if the cops are found negligent they should be punished however she was still the one who decided to try and make a run for it while handcuffed so most of the onus for what happened to her belongs on her own shoulders for making such an ill advised decision.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Handcuffed, she wouldn't have gotten very far before she fell on her own.
She wasn't attacking anyone. Why all the extensive physical training and minimum requirements to get into a police program if there's no physical exertion required at all anymore?
This girl shouldn't have died, period.
SaintPete
(533 posts)drugged and driving is an attack, "hit and run" doubly so... and that was before she was arrested.
What would she have done to avoid recapture?
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)It's what got us in Iraq.
SaintPete
(533 posts)You've turned from attacks on the logic of what I said, to attacks on my personal judgement.
Good bye.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Handcuffed.
SaintPete
(533 posts)with a record for car theft and motivated to extreme action.
She wasn't killed by the cop. She was stopped from escaping, and potentially causing harm to others. Her death was an accident, one for which SHE was the primary cause.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Frantic, handcuffed woman hijacks passerby, throwing driver from vehicle to escape. She WAS critically injured by the actions of the cop. If she hadn't been tased and hit her head, she'd be in jail waiting to face the charges she was arrested for.
SaintPete
(533 posts)or if she hadn't committed multiple "hit and runs" and gotten arrested in the first place
or if she hadn't had been driving under the influence of drugs which led to the accidents in the first place
then she'd be somewhere..ANYWHERE...other than where she is.
polly7
(20,582 posts)The point is ...... all the cop had to do was run a few steps and probably just brush her anywhere, she'd have fallen. At THAT POINT, she was no danger to anyone but herself. He chose instead to tase a handcuffed woman in the back. A life is a life, hers was no less valuable than anyone else's ...... cause we all make mistakes, ya know?
SaintPete
(533 posts)but then importance of stopping her escape.
If she were a shoplifter, for example (or any offender that was not clearly a potential danger to the lives of others), I might share the opinion that the cop used too much force, but that's not the case.
She didn't deserve brain trauma, but it's not as if the cop had a glass full of "brain trauma" that he gave the woman to drink. It wasn't a given that she would flat like a board, it wasn't a given that in doing so, she would hit her head, it wasn't a given that in hitting her head, she would suffer brain trauma.
The cop had a very reasonable expectation that the woman would simply be stunned, captured, and placed in jail. He also had a reasonable expectation that is she managed to outrun him and get away, she would be a great danger to others.
polly7
(20,582 posts)no muscle control would not be able to protect her head from smashing on pavement.
SaintPete
(533 posts)when thought your post was directed at me. Figured it out and self deleted...
SaintPete
(533 posts)that dangerous actions have critical consequences.
Whose fault was it that she was driving under the influence of heavy drugs?
Whose fault was it that she caused two hit and run accidents, and was a freaking danger to the community?
Whose fault was it that at 20 years old, she had already had three felony arrests?
Whose fault was it that she tried to escape from a jail?
Her fault.
Whose fault would it have been if she succeeded?
The cops.
This happened in Pinellas Park, just a few minutes north of my home in Saint Petersburg. We're talking ten miles away. If she had gotten away, stolen another car, and caused an accident that took someone's life, say for example my teen aged son, I'd be asking why the fuck she escaped, and why the officer didn't use every tool on his belt to keep her from harming others.
And if she harmed someone in your family, who then would you blame? What assignation of fault would change your tragedy?
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)The big question was, how did she slip away in the first place?
SaintPete
(533 posts)is why was she trying to escape?
It's because she was a multiple felon, on drugs, and knew that she would be going to jail for a long fucking time. She couldn't have that, so she put the lives of anyone that threatened her at risk, just to avoid having to take responsibility for her own horrible choices.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)because there is too much evidence that cops use that very reasoning to become sidewalk jury, judge and executioners. It becomes a power trip. There was a better option. He didn't use it.
He denied society a chance to pass their own judgment. Instead of allowing the system to work by landing her in jail for the rest of her life, where she could become an example of what can happen to anyone who follows her example, we, instead, see another example of why tasers are as bad a choice as a gun.
The answer is, that police need to be more physically fit.
SaintPete
(533 posts)you make it sound as if he had her under control, then extract a little frontier justice.
You're right, we wont agree.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)The situation was not out of control.
Not that anywhere else in Florida is much different, but there must be something wrong with the Bay area. We fled from that area a long time ago. It has some incredibly beautiful sights, and in some places, a wonderful place to raise small children, but there's something wrong about it that I can't put my finger on. The only evidence of civilization, sometimes, was the St. Pete Times.
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)At 90 lbs, handcuffed, she put so many people at risk, running away. So many people, in fact, that she had to be killed.
SaintPete
(533 posts)and accused of jaywalking a blind nun across the street to the hospital
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)i find it hard to believe he didn't have any other options. and...ever heard of the presumption of innocence? it is a tricky little concept that is the foundation of our legal system. being arrested for something doesn't automatically mean you are guilty...and subject to capital punishment. the office should have, and could have chosen another means to subdue her. he made a poor choice and used the taser.
SaintPete
(533 posts)which turned out badly.
And what does presumption of innocence have to do with her being tasered as she escapes from jail? I'm pretty sure that as she is running away from the officer, handcuffed, ignoring his command to stop, that the cops are not going to wait and say "You know, she might just be innocent, we should hold up and talk about this for a moment..."
yeah...
polly7
(20,582 posts)A young woman with her whole life ahead of her is now lying brain-dead. A minimal amount of energy from this police officer probably would have caused her to fall. Have you ever tried to run without using your arms for balance?? She wouldn't have gotten far even if he hadn't touched her. It's just a lot easier now to tase someone than to have to work up a sweat.
SaintPete
(533 posts)there was a horrible aftermath, but this all could have been avoided had the girl not run - that's what is obvious.
polly7
(20,582 posts)all bad things can be avoided if no-one every does anything at all. The thing is, LE is supposed to be protecting civilians, whether they're suspects ...... or not. This cop took physical training and restraint techniques, also, presumably Basic First Aid. It's not bad enough that he tased a women helpless to protect herself against a slam to the concrete - he saw her head hit and never even tried to stabilize her. A suspected head injury is ALWAYS treated as a possible spinal injury. He failed her twice ....... by causing the injury, and again by not doing what he should have to prevent it from worsening.
Is there anything at all these cops have trained for that you actually expect them to do ?
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)using tasers for compliance is a lazy choice. yeah...big tough cop and his only choice was to use a taser against a small, handcuffed woman...he deserves a medal 
Carolina
(6,960 posts)motor control and thus dropping like a rock and slamming her head against the pavement. You can't logically and intelligently separate the two!
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Fell totally differently. Kind of just fell to his knees and slumped over.
The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)It just ripped my heart to see that she was still alert afterwards. For me it means that if they had a unit there on time, it might have made a difference. Maybe police should not be allowed to tase without a paramedic unit nearby? How long was it before they attended to her injury?
thedude333
(6 posts)She is breaking the law and the cop does his job and it is his fault? right. Yeah, it sucks that this is the result but, it is all on her. She made this happen. SHE broke the law, SHE got arrested, SHE ran from the cops. I have never been tasered in the back. Know why? I've never been arrested and I have never ran from the cops. Learn to take personal responsibility. You are responsible for the consequences of your actions.
give the blue gang a wide berth. They are armed and dangerous.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)he made a poor choice, and he had other options.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)yes you are right the cop could tried to run down as a better choice but he himself had an even worse choice which he did not use which was to pull his pistol and shoot her so while cops using or having to use tasers sucks it beats the worst case scenario of them pulling their pistols and killing someone fleeing or even perhaps missing and killing an innocent bystander.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)and he may as well have shot her. the department would have deemed that appropriate too, as would many others. and i am sure he didn't envision her dying because of the taser.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)which just as well could have happened to her if he had managed to tackle her or the cop could have hit his own head if he had tried.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)she might have fallen anyway, and she might have hit her head, and she might have been injured in any scenario...true. but what actually happened is that he used the taser, she fell, she hit her head, she's braindead. just the simple facts of the matter.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)Last edited Wed Feb 22, 2012, 09:26 AM - Edit history (1)
It should read as "what actually happened is that she tried to escape the police so he used the taser to stop her, she fell, she hit her head, she's braindead. just the simple facts of the matter"
ArtiChoke
(61 posts)I thought tasers were supposed to be an alternative to using a gun. So, without a taser, the cop is justified in shooting a fleeing, handcuffed suspect??!!? Since when can the cops shoot a suspect in the back? With any kind of weapon?
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)IMO, the use of weapons, IS ASSAULT, except for cases of the immediate defense of self or another. I don't care if you're cop. In all cases the tactical deployment of a weapon should be made at the instruction of a supervisor. As a LEO when your choices are a) break a sweat, b) use a weapon, and you go with option b, you need to go to prison. Department policy is not part of the mix here. I just don't know how one person can be okay hurting another as part of their job.
Anyone ever heard of the Milgram Experiment?
It may give the department a nice warm feeling to know that another car thief is off the street. But I would guess that unless it was $100,000+ vehicle, the department may spend several times the value of the car just in legal defense. I hope the family sues them into bankruptcy.
While the outcome of this use of a weapon may be unusual it is definitely foreseeable. The use of a weapon to gain compliance from an individual arrested for a NON-VIOLENT offense is even more shameful.
boppers
(16,588 posts)I'm not sure where that falls on your "NON-VIOLENT" scale, on my scale, I put that up there with randomly firing a gun in public.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)...make it clear that she is on foot and no longer a danger to others. As far as I can tell from my own research, she was charged only with auto theft.
I'm not on her side of the arrest/crime. The officer was not defending himself or anyone in the immediate area. It was clear to me that the TASER was used as a means of restraint and not for defense. I am against cruel or unusual treatment by authorities in any form.
senorsquishy
(1 post)Granted the girl should not have ran, especially while handcuffed thats dumb as hell. Really though if Sgt. Baconator would have maybe done up some cardio once in a while this probably wouldn't have happened. Its kinda disturbing that there are cops who would taze someone before doing a little running. The guy should not have a badge period.
GETPLANING
(846 posts)need to stroll on over to the Taser International website and read up on the Taser. It is not a compliance tool. It is designed to incapacitate dangerous suspects in a non lethal manner. Police have decided that rather than a self defense tool it is a compliance tool designed to make their jobs easier. There are countless cases where police abuse this device.
I was a Taser stockholder many years ago, and at that time, I really believed in what Taser was attempting to accomplish. I still think the idea of non-lethal force is a step in the right direction, but I have been really disappointed in the way the police have been using their newest "toy."
On edit, I would just add that this case is beyond tragic. I'm sure the cop never intended to kill this child, but his actions were reprehensible. She's dead because he was too lazy to run a few steps, simple as that. Not because she was driving while suspended, not because she was high. Cops are always telling people that they are responsible for putting themselves in whatever situation they find themselves in. That argument goes both ways.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)this cop may a poor decision and it resulted in this woman's death. i am sick and tired of being exempting cops from taking responsibility for the stupid choices they make.
SaintPete
(533 posts)simple as that.
The accident happened because she got herself arrested - then decided "Fuck It All" and tried to escape. The cop didn't use lethal force, but shouldn't have had to use ANY force.
And your "wingnut troll" comment seems the type of tactic used by people who are frustrated logically, and lash out with an emotional argument instead.
GETPLANING
(846 posts)I wrote in my post that I believed the cop never intended to kill the prisoner.
And your dozens of comments excusing the officer and blaming the victim seem the type of tactic used by people who are frustrated logically, and attempt to overcompensate by playing the role of the intellectual instead.
Next time you talk to George Harrison, tell us what he thinks.
SaintPete
(533 posts)but he says Hare Krishna
boppers
(16,588 posts)He was running. She was running. He was about 5-6 feet behind her, well beyond a "arm's length". Watch the video.
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)How was she a threat to him or anyone else in handcuffs?
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)The road outside the police station was not "busy" as the video shows. Yes, if she kept running and he did not run and grab her, she might have eventually reached a freeway or whatever. That's a big IF. That is still no excuse for tasing her on concrete, where he KNEW she would drop uncontrollably.
If he is such an out of shape slob that he did not what to try to grab her, couldn't he wait until she crossed the road in front of the police station and was on grass again--THEN tase her? If she fell on grass, she would not have suffered a fractured skull.
SaintPete
(533 posts)for crying out loud, this woman was not a peaceful protester being hassled by a corporate goon, she was a dangerous and unstable criminal escaping from a freaking jail.
ArtiChoke
(61 posts)Is that not a near universal police motto? When the girl collapsed on the concrete and plainly hit her head, shouldn't the cop have prevented her from moving? Maybe it's too much to ask of the police but isn't it required that they protect the suspects in their custody? Now that would have required this fat bastard to bend at the waist, maybe even get down on a knee so never mind.
polly7
(20,582 posts)The Backlash Cometh
(41,358 posts)to the moment she was sent to the hospital.
My stomach rips up thinking that they took her to the police department for booking before she lost consciousness.
Pakid
(478 posts)We all make mistakes no one deserves to die for the mistake that this young woman made. The office show bad judgment in his actions. Even I could have caught this girl without hurting her or me and I am an old geezer
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)with the authority to shoot any time that excessive force with a Taser was used.
Under the current political climate, it seems that obvious excessive force, or at least excessive force with Tasers, will not even be prosecuted at the federal level?
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)she may have been a drug addict and a criminal, but allegations are not the same as a conviction. and in any case, if she was convicted of the alleged offenses, i doubt she would have gotten the death sentence. police need to use common sense and stop relying on their departments and communities to cover for whatever stupid decision they make. this cop used poor judgement because he was too lazy to run after her. i don't weigh 267lbs, and i am female. i think i could have subdued her without tackling her or using a taser.
SaintPete
(533 posts)Pretending the police officer executed her is beyond ridiculous.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)It might not be premeditated murder, but it sure looks like manslaughter to me.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)I had a friend tased right next to me on a sidewalk outside of a bar. He kind of just fell his knees and slumped over.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)I'm going to bask in the light of your reasonableness for a minute. I'm trying to shake off the gloom from all the trolls this post brought out. Sheesh, I just did not expect that at DU.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)come in all political stripes, unfortunately.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)so its a good thing the police have options like tasers.
radhika
(1,008 posts)It's like letting bishops investigate sex abuse charges of priests.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)and in some cases setup their voting districts.
NORTHERNBOYRULES
(1 post)He may have over done it,but she ran,he tazered,she was grounded,yet in the video she sits up,cries,answers the officer and complies with his orders,so when did the brain damage occur. Before the tazor,DRUGS,after,more legal drugs or a combo of all the above. Listen to the cop,STOP means stop!Maybe her concerned family should have intervened???
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)And yes, the video does show her sitting up. Her skull was already cracked, but it takes a few minutes for the brain swelling and resultant damage to occur. The cop should have immediately called 911. And her family could not have intervened at the police station--they did not even know what was happening. Yes, rational people would have stopped, but she was on drugs, like a lot of arrestees. Cops are trained for this reality. This guy just did not even try to grab her. He just tased her knowing she would drop uncontrollably on CONCRETE.
SaintPete
(533 posts)on concrete, knowing it would kill her
for fuck's sake...
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)True he did not know it would kill her, but any reasonable person knows dropping uncontrollably on concrete could very likely result in a skull fracture.
BTW, as a Beatle fan, I gotta say George would be bummed out knowing someone with so little compassion is using his image. Please tell me that is not George Harrison's face you're using.
SaintPete
(533 posts)Last edited Wed Feb 22, 2012, 01:06 AM - Edit history (2)
but I've met the man, talked with him about philosophy, shared food.
I was initially offended by your sanctimonious comment, then realized that people often lash out emotionally after the ability to maintain a rational conversation has failed them. The guilt trip was pretty pathetic, don't you have any better arguments?
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Shows us who you really are, and that's NO George Harrison, he was anti-violence.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)I wonder if the cops are going to try to keep her alive, just like they tried with Terry Schiavo.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)1. How long did it take to get her to a hospital?
2. How long did she wait at the hospital before being examined and receiving treatment?
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)by blaming the lady for being tazed, which caused her to fall, hit her head and go brain dead. Tasers should not be used.
So to those here who defend the cop... is it now justified to cause brain injury when somebody on drugs tries to run away. Maybe you can lobby the system to make it a rule, mandatory procedure.
Do you know what a conscience is? Do you have one? Nope...
SaintPete
(533 posts)straight into the personal attack.
weak
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)Two hit and runs, multiple previous convictions, driving while intoxicated. A woman yes, a lady no.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)I'm not surprised at all to see some of the posters who are defending this brutality. Somehow, some of these people manage to continually find themselves on the wrong side of things...
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)I'll say it
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)A 20 year-old woman is running away with handcuffs on and the lazy cop can only think to taze her in the back? Just chase her down for fuck's sake you lazy pile of shit. But no, lets use a device meant to be a less-than-lethal equivalent to a firearm and do the moral equivalent of shooting her in the back, immobilizing her muscles while she has forward momentum. Hey what do you know, she face plants and she can't move her arms to protect her head. Fucking pig!
I don't care that she was a criminal - it's inhumane to tazer anyone in the back who is running and remove the ability to protect their head through the use of the device.
And to those playing the cold "she's responsible" bullshit card, just sit back and imagine she's buried up to her chest in dirt and getting smashed with stones in the head. I know you're smiling just thinking about it.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)suspects and subdue them with the least chance of harm to both the officer and to the person the office is trying to subdue dont you?
And as for her being responsible its not bullshit its a fact that she is largely at fault for it since she had been arrested and she tried to make a break for it and that was "her" choice to try that unless of course you think the police used their evil mind control to make her decide to try and escape.
SaintPete
(533 posts)Someone up thread actually wrote that they thought the cop might have let her go just for the opportunity and justification to kill her with a taser.
Fuck...
SaintPete
(533 posts)"This thread is fucked up"
or
'This thread isn't fucked up enough, so I'll insult people and make it more fucked up"
It's ok, just think of this woman escaping, tweaked on coke and oxycodone, stealing another car and driving into someone's child. Does that make you smile? Of course it doesn't, but my imaginary scenario if a thousand time more likely to have happened than yours, and I don't assume you're a monster just because we disagree.
I just think you have no other argument than to attack people personally. Hope that skill serves you well.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)That is, if they weren't pushing their way to the front of the crowd in order to throw stones themselves.
Response to SunSeeker (Original post)
old man 76 This message was self-deleted by its author.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)If you're in pain, you get in the position that best relieves that pain. Perhaps it's NOT laying down. Bear that in mind, the next time you're fat ass can't catch a 20-year old woman, and you're thinking about using a Taser.
eppur_se_muova
(36,269 posts)I mean, the police have their PRIORITIES, don't they ?
-----------> <----------
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)She's no longer in police custody and, in her current state, I imagine she would be currently unable to assist in her own defense.
midnight
(26,624 posts)
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)Seems to me we need more progressives to step up and join the police departments and other law enforcement agencies around the nation (and around the world).
KansDem
(28,498 posts)So that fat-asses like this cop can catch and apprehend suspects who are handcuffed and running away?
Instead, this guy's such a lard-ass that he relies on his Taser rather than putting forth some physical effort. I mean, c'mon! Where was this woman going to go? She was handcuffed!
There seems to be a lot of Taser and pepperspray use by cops these days. Maybe if they weren't grossly overweight and unfit, they might not have to use these devices...
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)Not to mention the assumption that his lack of fitness was his basis for using the taser after she failed to obey his command to stop running and halt as she attempted to escape custody.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)I ran track in high school and I can assure you we didn't have any sprinters who weighed close to 300 pounds. He was out-of-shape and incapable of giving chase so he just decided to use his Taser. It's that simple.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)What really matters is she tried to escape police custody and when ordered to stop she refused and what followed was largely of her own making.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)Being 267 pounds is way overweight for the kind of work cops do.
He killed her because he couldn't do his job.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)you blame his weight or blame her for trying to escape?
KansDem
(28,498 posts)So far, no one has answered my question of why the woman was handcuffed with hands in front of her and not behind, although I provided a link upthread to the Florida Highway Patrol's policies and procedures that stated hands are to be cuffed behind.
Maybe one of the cops screwed up, thereby increasing the chances of her running away?
I noticed your coffee and doughnut avatar. Are you a police officer, by chance?
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)The point still stands though that at the end of the day she was the one who decided to run so the end result of what happened to her is still largely her own fault for trying to escape and that his weight is only a an excuse people who dont like the police are using to justify their stance such as yours, no offense intended.
As to if my avatar is a because I am a cop, no I am not nor have I wanted to be one as its just to much of a headache from what I have read.
I just happen to like an occasional donut and some coffee and felt it was a nice relaxed avatar to use and thats the only reason I chose it.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)I mean, really bad. A complete waste.
Broderick
(4,578 posts)This was murder in my opinion. That lazy jackboot thug should be charged. These tasing cases are getting more and more prolific, and it is beyond appalling. He could have caught her.
My heart goes out to the family.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)...and not some right-wing website.
It saddens me
Agony
(2,605 posts)we now live in a rotting civilization
Broderick
(4,578 posts)cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)I didnt of course but I "could" have.
That aside I do feel sorry for the mother for losing her daughter.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Remember we can elect our District Attorney's. We make our government. We own our justice system. If the people of Florida don't want that cop to get away with what he did, they can easily fix that.
Don't be mad at just the cop. "cleared of any wrongdoing" my ass.
elias7
(4,007 posts)Taser applications 2.69 million; taser deaths since 2001: 516
That's a .02% chance of death from taser use. Lifetime odds of being killed in a hit and run 0.16%
Sources:
As of June 30, 2011, TASER International has sold approximately 559,000 TASER® brand electronic control devices (ECDs) worldwide to more than 16,300 law enforcement & military agencies.
More than 7,000 of these agencies deploy TASER ECDs specifically to all members of their patrol officers.
TASER devices are sold to in 107 countries.
In addition, approximately 239,000 TASER ECDs have been sold to the general public since 1994 (we founded our company selling to consumers).
Field Use/Suspect Applications: 1,406,243 ± 2%
Training/Voluntary Applications: 1,293,942 ± 7%
Total TASER ECD Applications: 2.69 million+ (as of August 31, 2011)
According to Amnesty International, between 2001 and 2008, 351 people in the United States died after being shocked by police Tasers. Our blog has documented another 165 taser-related deaths in the United States in 2009-2011. That means there have been 516 documented taser-related deaths in America.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)But hey, that's according to a probe done by CBC News/Radio-Canada and the Canadian Press. That of course can't possibly be as reliable as stats from the company that makes money selling Tasers.
Oh...and there's also this nugget: "San Francisco cardiologist and electrophysiologist Dr. Zian Tseng told the Braidwood Inquiry that a healthy individual could die from a Taser discharge, depending on electrode placement on the chest and pulse timing. He said that the risk of serious injury or death is increased by the number of activations, adrenaline or drugs in the bloodstream, and a susceptible medical history. After Tseng began researching Tasers three years ago, Taser International contacted him, asking him to reconsider his media statements and offering funding."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser_safety_issues#cite_note-86)
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)Of course guns are more lethal than tasers, but tasers are still dangerous. Tasers were designed to only be used to subdue combative, dangerous arrestees. She was not that. There has unfortunately been "mission creep" with tasers by lazy cops who basically use them as fishing lines.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)Her attempt to escape did not give the cop license to endanger her life. This cop KNEW she would drop like a sack of rocks on that concrete--Tasers incapacitate you so you are incapable of breaking your fall with your hands. He KNEW that. People panic when they're arrested, particularly when they are not thinking straight or are on drugs. Police are trained to handle that rather predictable situation. This cop just didn't handle it the way he should have. What boggles my mind is your persistance in defending his lazy behind despite the uncontroverted facts of the situation. And...here...on DU. Very depressing.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)By attempting to escape and running she could have run into traffic and caused someone to veer off and kill themselves or someone else or she could have been hit by a car or the office might have been hit or they both might have been hit.
If the officer had managed to grab her or even tackle her he might have been injured if she tried to resist and its very likely considering she already was trying to escape that she would have resisted.
In the end by her attempt to escape she potentially endangered many other people.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)She did not run into traffic. As the video shows, she was in the police station parking lot. This 100 lb woman was not endangering anybody. Yes, he and/or she might have gotten injured if he had tackled her, but all he had to go was GRAB her. Running does not mean she would get violent. Even if she did, he weighed 3 times what she weighed. He could easily subdue her. He didn't even TRY. Man, I hope I'm not feeding a troll here, but it sure sounds like it.
cstanleytech
(26,295 posts)He contributed to it but she was the main cause because she was the one who decided to try and escape from police custody.
Edit: BTW for future reference to assist you just because someone has a different opinion on an issue than you doesnt mean that they are a troll.