Snowden: UK government now leaking documents about itself

[bemildred]

Source: Guardian.UK

The Independent this morning published an article - which it repeatedly claims comes from "documents obtained from the NSA by Edward Snowden" - disclosing that "Britain runs a secret internet-monitoring station in the Middle East to intercept and process vast quantities of emails, telephone calls and web traffic on behalf of Western intelligence agencies." This is the first time the Independent has published any revelations purportedly from the NSA documents, and it's the type of disclosure which journalists working directly with NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden have thus far avoided.

That leads to the obvious question: who is the source for this disclosure? Snowden this morning said he wants it to be clear that he was not the source for the Independent, stating:

I have never spoken with, worked with, or provided any journalistic materials to the Independent. The journalists I have worked with have, at my request, been judicious and careful in ensuring that the only things disclosed are what the public should know but that does not place any person in danger. People at all levels of society up to and including the President of the United States have recognized the contribution of these careful disclosures to a necessary public debate, and we are proud of this record.

"It appears that the UK government is now seeking to create an appearance that the Guardian and Washington Post's disclosures are harmful, and they are doing so by intentionally leaking harmful information to The Independent and attributing it to others. The UK government should explain the reasoning behind this decision to disclose information that, were it released by a private citizen, they would argue is a criminal act."

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/23/uk-government-independent-military-base

[railsback]

1. LoL!!!!!!!!

No honor amongst thieves. That's the problem with making duplicate copies and then entrusting them to other people.. or getting detained by other countries and having all your stuff ransacked.

Obviously, these frantic statements coincide with Snowden's agreement with Russia to stay in that country. Maybe Russia leaked the information themselves so they can boot him out.

[bemildred]

2. This is getting to be amusing. nt

[blackspade]

7. How about relying on some facts?

How many duplicate copies were there? Who had them? Did Snowden hand over all the material he had to Greenwald?
Were the documents turned over before he was picked up by the Chinese and Russians?
Do the Chinese or Russians even have copies?

Establishing simple facts might strengthen your continued speculation.
At this point that is all your are doing absent of any actual facts.

[Helen Borg]

3. In what ways is this dangeours?

I mean, the location of this listening station were not disclosed, right?

[blackspade]

4. Interesting questions.

If in fact Snowden has only given the files to Greenwald and his associates, then how did the Independent get them?
Regardless, why are they publishing info about foreign surveillance? That would seem to be counter to the MSM narrative that 'responsible journalists' don't publish things that threaten 'national security.'

Stinks of a setup to me.

[railsback]

5. Like a smashed up Macbook..

..that wasn't a Macbook?

[blackspade]

11. And your point is what?

Or is throwing poop at a wall your only source of amusement?

[railsback]

15. Seems to be sticking..

[Luminous Animal]

9. It never says it has them. See my post #6.

[blackspade]

13. I saw that, thanks for the clarification.

My next questions are: how did the Independent gain access to the files and why is the NSA posting them?

[Luminous Animal]

16. To make it look like the materials are dangerous in the hands of the press.

The logical conclusion is that the Independent received them from the government. But they don't say! Nor do they provide any original source material that "proves" their claim. All other media has when reporting on Snowden docs. Why not the Independent?

[Jesus Malverde]

27. If you read the independent article.

It's clear they don't have the documents. They have a description of the contents and a vague one at that.

The purpose of the leak is to justify the abuse of terror legislation, by tying the snowden case to middle east terror.

[MADem]

30. Maybe from someone in China...Snowden was interviewed by a reporter

working for the South China Morning Post (a paper that Rupert Murdoch has a minority share in, FWIW).

He had to sleep at some point in time...so did those who got copies of his goodies.

And until I see all these fuzzy pronouncements actually coming out of Ed Snowden's mouth, instead of as words on a screen, I just can't really "buy" anything.

This isn't the 1800s...we're a bit past the written word a a way to communicate. Even Anonymous does dramatic little YOUTUBE videos with the dumbass headless guy and the Warner Brothers mask and the Steven Hawking voice.

Anyone could be "speaking for" Snowden--for all we know he could be in an induced coma (or recovering from major plastic surgery), and Pootie is writing the script! He needs to pop his head up, even if only via skype.

[Luminous Animal]

6. Even the Independent never claims it received these docs from Snowden.

The pertinent sentences:

The Independent is not revealing the precise location of the station but information on its activities was contained in the leaked documents obtained from the NSA by Edward Snowden.

Information about the project was contained in 50,000 GCHQ documents that Mr Snowden downloaded during 2012. Many of them came from an internal Wikipedia-style information site called GC-Wiki. Unlike the public Wikipedia, GCHQ’s wiki was generally classified Top Secret or above.

Nowhere does it say that Snowden is the Independent's source.

There is no doubt that the NSA is aware of much of the content of Snowden's materials so they pass that info on to GCHQ which in turn leaks it the the Independent.

[Ghost Dog]

22. Snowden's materials cover both NSA and GCHQ

activities, it seems.

[Jesus Malverde]

28. +1

[MADem]

31. Downloaded in 2012? So he's been "bringing in the sheaves" for a LONG time, now. nt

[Luminous Animal]

33. He has admitted as such.

[tblue]

8. Wouldn't put these contortions past any PTB.

I feel like I'm watching a movie.

[MjolnirTime]

10. Keep beating the dead horse, Glenn. Apparently, they'll keep paying you.

But you've saturated the public, and they have lost interest in your "Breaking News".

[blackspade]

14. The public has lost so much interest that other organizations have decided that they want....

a piece of the pie?
And no journalist gets paid? What kind of stupid memo is that?

[MjolnirTime]

19. show me any results for all the poutrage.

when the public at large is serious about something, the wheels of government move.

[blackspade]

20. Just like 80%+ of the country wanted background checks for firearms?

Nice try at a dodge though.

[deurbano]

25. It's only been two and a half months since the revelations began.

Congress isn't even in session.

[WillyT]

18. Um... Not Really...

DULink: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023517265

[WillyT]

12. K & R !!!

[SunSeeker]

17. Snowden does not deny he stole these docs from the NSA.

That would have been in his statement if he did not have those docs. He just denies that he gave them directly to the Independent. The real question here is why the fuck did Snowden steal THIS info from the NSA? It has nothing to do with spying on Americans in America.

[Luminous Animal]

21. Because they were included in a dataset most likely.

[SunSeeker]

32. Are you saying he didn't mean to steal them? What do you base that on?

Why do you assert it is "most likely" that it was included in a "dataset"? Even if it was an "oops" in that he downloaded it accidently as part of a collection of documents, why couldn't he delete it from his thumbdrive, knowing he shouldn't have it? Why did he travel to Hong Kong and Russia with it?

[iemitsu]

36. Because that's how the NSA trained Snowden to handle

accidentally gathered intelligence? I imagine that that is the standard rule, once intelligence is in your hands never give it up.

[SunSeeker]

39. The NSA did not train him to steal from them. nt

[iemitsu]

40. No, they trained him to steal from us,

and it backfired on them.

[SunSeeker]

41. No, the NSA's mistake was hiring a right wing nut bag with an agenda..

Snowden should never have gotten a security clearance.

[iemitsu]

43. No one should get a security clearance to snoop on everything we say

or type.
Anyone, who works for the vast US spy network for a lifetime and doesn't become a whistleblower, is suspect in my book.
Not the sort of character I would want for a neighbor.

[think4yourself]

24. GCHQ spies on US.

They all share it. We help fund it. Look into "Five Eyes" program,
UK, Canada, Australia, NewZealand and US.
Collect it all.

[SunSeeker]

34. Did Snowden/GG assert THIS mideast UK surveillance program spies on US?

Link please.

[think4yourself]

35. Here's one.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/06/is-the-five-eyes-alliance-conspiring-to-spy-on-you/277190/

[SunSeeker]

37. That link is 2 months old, doesn't quote Snowden/GG nor discuss THIS program.

This program is about mideast surveillance. That Atlantic piece discusses Mr. Friedersdorf's fear that the NSA spies on Americans by having other countries do it for them. That is not THIS program. Nor does the piece say Snowden or GG asserted UK mideast surveillance spies on US. It does not even mention Snowden or Greenwald.

[nenagh]

23. see comments on kpete's 9:29 a.m. OP on the same topic...

for a very interesting viewpoint..

[Ocelot]

26. The Independent has no credibility left

Attention-seeking rag owned by shady Russian tycoon who apparently enjoys being part of the UK government's propaganda machine. Yes, I believe Snowden. K&R.

[Jesus Malverde]

29. Sums it up nicely....nt

[SoapBox]

38. Shut the fuck up, Little Eddie.

Now that you are a RUSSIAN and living in a country with one of THE biggest CIVIL and HUMAN Rights ABUSERS, Comrade Putin,
I have no interest in your tales.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

42. Are you having a sad, or are you having a flashback to 1955?