Obama offers new gun control steps

[SecularMotion]

Source: Associated Press

WASHINGTON — Striving to take action where Congress would not, the Obama administration announced new steps today on gun control, curbing the import of military surplus weapons and proposing to close a little-known loophole that lets felons and others circumvent background checks by registering guns to corporations.

Four months after a gun control drive collapsed spectacularly in the Senate, President Barack Obama added two more executive actions to a list of 23 steps the White House determined Obama could take on his own to reduce gun violence. With the political world focused on Mideast tensions and looming fiscal battles, the move signaled Obama's intent to show he hasn't lost sight of a cause he took up after 20 first graders and six adults were gunned down last year in an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.

One new policy will end a government practice that lets military weapons, sold or donated by the U.S. to allies, be reimported into the U.S. by private entities, where some may end up on the streets. The White House said the U.S. has approved 250,000 of those guns to be reimported since 2005; under the new policy, only museums and a few other entities like the government will be eligible to reimport military-grade firearms.

The Obama administration is also proposing a federal rule to stop those who would be ineligible to pass a background check from skirting the law by registering a gun to a corporation or trust. The new rule would require people associated with those entities, like beneficiaries and trustees, to undergo the same type of fingerprint-based background checks as individuals if they want to register guns.

Read more: http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/viewart/20130829/NEWS03/130829004/VIDEOS-Obama-offers-new-gun-control-steps-

[JoeyT]

1. Happy to be the first rec for this.

Good moves in a good direction.

[pintobean]

2. But, corporations are people.

I think both of these are good ideas.

[wild bird]

3. I fail to see why he didn't do this sooner.

I like both actions, especially the one that closes the loophole where disallowed persons can register their guns to a corporation, that one's a no brainer.

[Iliyah]

7. Well maybe because Pres O believes that Democracy

should work and tried to work with congress, ya'think.

Same with Immigration and the sequester, but alas, what the fuck congress is doing?????

Taking America hostage over the debt limit bs, voting to repeal Obamacare for the 40th time, investigating so called scandals, allowing important social cuts to happen, et al., AND obstruct everything.

Now many gopers are discussing impeachment.

[Kingofalldems]

4. There is no loophole!!11!!

[Robb]

5. Two good policies. Good on this President. nt

[ileus]

6. M1 Garands kill people.

[AtheistCrusader]

8. Seriously, this will piss off a lot of collectors.

Collectors of weapons that are practically never used in crimes.
If it's legal for sale in the US, it should be legal for import.

The corporation registration thing is a good change though. I wonder how many people even do it, but it should always be tied to at least one real human in possession.

[BainsBane]

20. There's always Hitler memorabilia

[AtheistCrusader]

21. Non-sequitur.

This practice is normally used to import things like Garands, and M14's which are then dispensed BY LAW through the Civilian Marksmanship Program. They are American weapons, returning to American hands.

[BainsBane]

22. The point is collectors can collect something else

Deal.

[NickB79]

27. Why?

Has there been a sting of collectors of military memorabilia going on shooting sprees?

Has a collector's stash fallen into the wrong hands lately and caused a mass murder?

Just because you don't like someone's hobby, if it's legal and doesn't harm anyone, who are you to tell them to collect something else?

Personally, I think people who collect and drive muscle cars are fucking assholes. The cars are loud, dirty, and waste gobs of fuel every year as millions of these jerks just drive around, gunning it every chance they get to hear the engine roar. On top of that, they sometimes DO kill themselves and their passengers in car accidents that could have been prevented in a newer car with safety features.

However, I don't call for their ban. I realize this is still a free country, their hobby is legal, and that's that.

You need a better justification to ban the collecting 50-100 yr old military hardware than "I don't like it."

[BainsBane]

28. Because the stuff is illegal now

and the world doesn't revolve around them. I know some people can't fathom that last concept. I know a good portion of this country believes their stuff is more important than human lives. I really don't care to waste my time worrying about such people.

[X_Digger]

31. Nothing is made illegal by this EO. Read the article again.

I can go down to any store and purchase one of these firearms. I can purchase a new rifle just like it, right off the shelf.

Nothing in this EO makes anything illegal.

[Travis_0004]

33. It still effects people

If a collector wants to import an M1 Garand, what is the problem with that. It preserves a piece of American history, and the government (by way of the CMP) even turns a profit.

When was the last time you heard of an M1 being used in a crime?

[X_Digger]

35. Oh, I know, see my post below.

I was just correcting the above poster who seems to think the EO makes the rifles "illegal".

[AtheistCrusader]

32. So, human lives are more importan than weapons that take, statisically, no human lives?

[Throd]

37. Thanks for calling me a "fucking asshole". Way to win allies.

I like muscle cars, you like guns, so on DU we both have tiny tiny dicks.

[AtheistCrusader]

30. Why would they want to?

I own several of the aforementioned weapons. I do not, and have no interest in owning any Nazi memorabilia. Kind of offensive that you assume anyone would. (That was not already a collector for one reason or another)

[madville]

11. Yeah, 70 years ago

The antique firearm one won't make any difference except to the collector market, they are rarely ever linked to any violent activity.

With the prices of M-1 Garands and Carbines these day one could go down to Academy or Dicks Sporting Goods and pick up a few semi-auto .308 or 30-06 rifles for the price of one of those old guns.

[NickB79]

26. Sure does!

http://www.trbimg.com/img-5106d4f9/turbine/lat-cindy-movie-guns-la0004962701-20080731/600

[billh58]

9. The wheels of progress

against the obscenity of gun violence in this country are gathering steam, and President Obama's support for reasonable gun control measures is a major driving force for this progress.

I saw a post on another thread yesterday by a Gungeoneer who claimed to be speaking for "80 million gun owners" and stated that the Democratic Party platform "supports the Second Amendment." The poster went on to claim that his friends, relatives, and neighbors see messages by gun control supporters on DU, and claim, "see, they're a-comin' fer are guns." The rest of the post claimed that we gun control proponents are the main reason that Democrats lose elections and suggested that we leave the Democratic Party and form our own (expletive) party.

First of all, the 80 million American gun owners do NOT vote as a bloc, and are made up from the same demographics as are the various political and religious belief systems. They do NOT speak as one voice, and DU Gungeoneers are neither representative of ALL gun owners, nor even very many Democrats. There are many gun owners who agree with people like Gaby Giffords, and President Obama on the necessity for more stringent gun control measures. Secondly, the good old boys (and girls) who believe the NRA propaganda that "Democrats are a-comin' fer are guns" are the same ones who believe that President Obama is a Kenyan Muslim, and that the Affordable Care Act is Socialism. The bottom line is that these Rednecks are intellectually dishonest, biased, and mean-spirited, and we don't need them. These bottom feeders do NOT cost us elections.

And lastly, yes the Democratic Party platform does indeed support the Second Amendment, just as it supports ALL of the Constitution. See the following link, however, to see the Democratic stance on an approach to reduce gun violence in this nation:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/preventing-gun-violence

Those who continue to spread the NRA lies about Democrats and our call for effective and long overdue gun control are the real enemies of our Party. These "cold dead hands" gun fetishists are no better than the right-wingers they parrot, and don't really belong on DU. They would be better received at FR, and other neoconservative sites who think as they do.

[hack89]

10. Really? Trivial measures like these are how you are measuring progress?

how does the state of Illinois legalizing concealed carry fit into your world view? Or a blue state like Rhode Island rejecting an AWB?

[wild bird]

13. The problem is that these measures only last until Jan. 20, 2016.

Unless the next President re-authorizes these EO's, they expire, then what?

[thetonka]

15. Then

These executive orders will be evaulated on the merits of their succcess of failure. Unfortunately that is not really enough time to accurately show if these actions are effective.

[wild bird]

16. Actually it depends on who is president, if it's a repuke,

they'll probably let it expire whether or not there's evidence of them working.

[Travis_0004]

34. Sounds good to me.

If it should be against the law, then let congress pass a law. I think executive orders are used far too often on matters that should be left up to congress.

[beevul]

38. How can you possibly define...

How can you possibly define "The wheels of progress against the obscenity of gun violence in this country" as blocking the import of guns that aren't part of the gun violence problem in the first place?

How can you possibly apply the label of "effective and long overdue gun control", to m1 and garand rifles?

Its most certainly not "right wing" to question that.

I disagree with the President blocking them, even though I have no interest in owning them. Personally, I think someone...one of his advisors perhaps, misled or misinformed him on the issue.

It does confirm however, how you and some others define "reasonable", for anyone that was unclear.

[friendly_iconoclast]

40. "Reasonable" = "*their* way, and no dissent tolerated"

[friendly_iconoclast]

39. "I saw a post on another thread yesterday..." No, you did not.

I note you failed to include a link to this purported 'post', and none of these alleged
quotes from a Gungeoneer turn up in a site search.

This is just another example of faith promoting, evidence-free rumor, on a par with:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3527200

These laughable "polls"
are all from the right-wing Gungeon

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12624209#post1

Originality is not one of their strong suits as evidenced by their propensity to repeatedly post NRA-produced propaganda and massaged "statistics."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12624209#3

this radical gun-worshiping 4 million (including DU's Gungeoneer right-wingers)

We disagree with you, therefore we are right-wingers?NRA supporters Q.E.D.? You'd get an F in first year
rhetoric for that one...

[billh58]

41. Here you go

Skippy:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3552479

And, I stand by every one of the posts you have linked.

[friendly_iconoclast]

43. I stand corrected. Incidentally, thanks for linking to that thread...

Last edited Sat Aug 31, 2013, 03:40 PM - Edit history (1)

...for without that link, I would have not learned what a dicto simpliciter fallacy is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_dicto_simpliciter

A dicto simpliciter (sweeping generalization) (Latin: "from a maxim without qualification", meaning "from a universal rule&quot or ad dictum simpliciter (Latin: "to a maxim without qualification", meaning "to a universal rule&quot are Latin phrases for a type of informal fallacy of presumption.

An example of same would be "Those who oppose me in the Gungeon are are members of/parroting
the NRA"...

[hack89]

42. The Democratic party platform recognizes the right to bear arms as an individual right

President Obama has said exactly the same thing.

So yes, the Democratic Party does support the 2A.

[derby378]

44. If the Democratic Party platform does indeed support the Second Amendment, let them prove it

They can start by removing any support for another semi-auto ban.

[wild bird]

12. The only problem I can forsee is that these EO's only last as long as Obama is the President,

unless the next President re-authorizes them, they will expire on Jan. 20, 2016.
That's why it's so important to get another progressive Dem elected President.

[billh58]

17. Actually, Executive Orders

do not automatically "expire" when the incumbent leaves office. The next president may amend an Executive Order, cancel it, or leave it alone.

[wild bird]

18. You're right.

That's what I meant to say, just worded it poorly.

I want to learn more about the guns issue, pro and con, can you recommend any non biased websites I can visit to learn more?
Thanks.

[warrant46]

14. Too bad he isn't offering any "steps" to create jobs

[RussBLib]

24. too bad the GOP house is still sitting on Obama's jobs bill

but don't let that get in the way of you crapping on Obama.

[warrant46]

36. Your terse and rude Comment is noted

[beevul]

19. Yeah. Those "trust" gun registrations...

Yeah. Those "trust" gun registrations the article refers to...

Those are NFA weapons, not regular old firearms.


Only effects firearms which are NFA firearms, and generally cost 5-10 or more thousand dollars because there is a fixed supply.


What this will do: Piss off collectors.


What it won't do: Effect gun crime in the slightest.

[X_Digger]

29. Same with the reimportation ban.

It's fluff for the ardent control-heads, a 'gimme' that won't affect crime in the slightest, but will piss off more than are applauding.

[Blandocyte]

25. Sounds like a dance. Now with new steps. n/t