US claim on Syria chemical attack 'nonsense' - Putin
Source: BBC
Russian President Vladimir Putin has dismissed US claims that Syria's regime used chemical weapons, describing them as "utter nonsense".
Mr Putin challenged Washington to present the evidence behind its claims to the United Nations Security Council.
US President Barack Obama has said he is considering military action against Syria based on intelligence reports.
The Russia leader's remarks came after UN chemical weapons inspectors ended their visit to Syria.
Read more: http://mobile.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23911833
Russian President Vladimir Putin has declared ‘utter nonsense’ the idea that the Syrian government has used chemical weapons on its own people and called on the US to present its supposed evidence to the UN Security Council.
Washington has been basing its proposed strategy of an attack on Syria on the premise that President Bashar Assad’s government forces have used chemical agents, while Russia finds the accusations unacceptable and the idea of performing a military strike on the country even more so. Especially as it would constitute a violation of international law, if carried out without the approval of the UN Security Council.
Further to this, Putin told Obama that he should consider what the potential fallout from a military strike would be and to take into consideration the suffering of innocent civilians.
http://rt.com/news/putin-us-syria-evidence-249/
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Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)Who are we to second guess him?
Yes, this post illustrates the absurdity of the argument.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)What Putin does not have is our Military Industrial Complex and the lobbyists from AIPAC breathing down his neck to get a new war started. Those cruise missiles cost upwards of a million and a half each. A lot of profit can be made if the government orders hundreds more to replace those we simply must use to topple Hezbollah's principle ally, and thereby greatly weaken the only force in the Middle East which has ever fought the IDF to a standstill.
None of the above is good for the people of the United States. We can not afford another war of choice. The arms makers have enough of our money already and Israel can fight its own wars.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)another_liberal
(8,821 posts)I didn't claim Russia was not providing Syria with arms. I am thoroughly aware they are Syria's most important arms supplier. So, what are you even saying?
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)What Putin does not have is our Military Industrial Complex and the lobbyists from AIPAC breathing down his neck to get a new war started.
Yeah, Russia doesn't have a Military Industrial Complex or any factions breathing down his neck LOL!
What Putin doesn't have is any real democracy or need for any sort of accountability.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Sorry you misunderstood my meaning.
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)if it consists of a quasi-legal system of bribery that enables a tiny fraction of the population to maintain control of the political and legislative processes with huge amounts of money.
yoloisalie
(55 posts)that the attack in Syria is about money for the MIC wont get you anywhere. The strikes are going to be very limited in terms of cost and duration so one cannot say its about money. Also there are a million and one ways which the MIC can drain this countries treasuries, useless weapon projects for one will be much better than 1 week of bombing and it bring jobs to the country.
The reason for the bombing and for the attack in the first place is to turn the tide in favor of the rebels who are getting their sorry arses kicked. The US supports the rebels and weapons and intelligence can only take you so far but strikes on Syrian military targets is the big deal. This is Libya all over again.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)It does appear now that they definitely will be ordered.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)reducing this all down to money or oil.
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)At least you got that right...
yoloisalie
(55 posts)Libya* . My MS explorer doesn't have a spell check
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)dictate what the USA does. or whether or not your anti virus will take out your computer (Kapersky )
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)
David__77
(23,370 posts)...
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)You may just get it.
Swagman
(1,934 posts)at this stage.
The rag tag army of 'rebels' including their Al Qaeda allies have been rapidly losing ground and basically losing this conflict.
For Assad (who may well murder his own people if necessary) to use these chemical weapons at this point in time seems odd as no strategic advantage is gained and the condemnation of the world guaranteed.
He is not stupid man no matter how evil he may be.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)
Bosonic
(3,746 posts)MOSCOW (AFP) - Russian President Vladimir Putin demanded on Saturday that the United States shows proof that the Syrian regime used chemical weapons, arguing that failure to do so would mean that none exists.
"Regarding the position of our American colleagues, who affirm that government troops used... chemical weapons, and say that they have proof, well, let them show it to the United Nations inspectors and the Security Council," he told journalists. "If they don't show it, that means there is none."
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/news/18737642/putin-demands-us-prove-syria-chemical-arms-use/
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Why in the hell don't we just call his bluff? Claiming our evidence is overwhelming and then refusing to let anyone actually see it is begging for ridicule and distrust.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)or maybe Colin Powell can show us where the chemicals are.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)......really?
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)alphafemale
(18,497 posts)I don't care good he looks shirtless on horseback.
The guy's a tyrant and always has been.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)They both have a great deal riding on whether or not we launch attacks on Syria. I say ignore them both and stay the hell out of this latest war we can not win.
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)Plato and Aristotle both developed important ideas about government and politics. Two of the many political subjects that these men wrote about were tyranny and the rule of law. Tyranny occurs when absolute power is granted to a ruler. In a tyrannical government, the ruler becomes corrupt and uses his power to further his own interests instead of working for the common good.
The rule of law is the principle that no one is exempt from the law, even those who are in a position of power. The rule of law can serve as a safeguard against tyranny, because just laws ensure that rulers do not become corrupt.
http://www.crf-usa.org/bill-of-rights-in-action/bria-26-1-plato-and-aristotle-on-tyranny-and-the-rule-of-law.html
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)hell, I don't trust anyone....Bandar Bush, Putin, Israel, Iran, or Obama. None of them are truthful.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)So maybe it IS the truth this time.
People are sick of it.
I can't see any good coming out of any miliitary action.
But using the word of Putin as an argument against intervention is a losing one.
The Assad regime has been committing genocide.
The US goverment seems to be inclined to intervene against genocide only in limited circumstances.
Still...Putin?
Hell no.
arewenotdemo
(2,364 posts)
Let's see all the evidence. What's more, let's hear exactly how Obama has been supporting the Syrian rebels....which, as I understand it, is a violation of International Law.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)arewenotdemo
(2,364 posts)"If we have to use force, it is because we are America. We are the indispensable nation. We stand tall. We see further into the future."
...Madeleine Albright
bemildred
(90,061 posts)If that is not a moronic thought, I don't know what is? Did they miss 9/11 and the other "terrorist" attacks?
RC
(25,592 posts)Or want to help us in our wars. Well, at least the last part it good.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Some countries eventually get tired of being used, lied to and used again. Maybe we'll learn the same lesson some day?
RC
(25,592 posts)WE have spent too many years as the school yard bully. But this latest US made problem in Syria is not going according to the plan. That gassing was supposed to enrage the rest of the world against Syria, to give us cover for yet another war. That ain't happening.
The current refusal of the rest of the world to go along, is making the next part of the plan, Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran, that much harder.
If we try too hard to go it alone and there will be push back this time. Real push back. For the world that would be a good thing. For us, US, not so much.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Oh?
RC
(25,592 posts)They overwhelmed the resources of the Syrian government. We did nothing to help those refugees or Syria. All we did was sit back and waited till the inevitable happened. So yes, we are responsible. Now we want to help the refugees by bombing them.
History is a continuum. Nothing ever happens in a vacuum. The problems did not start with the recent gassing. We invaded Iraq, in part, because "Saddam gassed his own people" - With weapons WE gifted him no less. No matter where one turns on the Middle East, there we are, stirring something. We always seem to be involved somehow.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Assad?
RC
(25,592 posts)But Syria did welcome them at the time.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)to stay in power. Life, for them, is one long existential crisis. Similar to Saddam's Iraq, in some respects, a modernizing relatively well-run country, headed towards something like the NEOCON fantasy for the USA, benign "democratic" dictatorship with just enough political violence to keep the lid on.
I knew the son of a Syrian diplomat who got to be on poor terms with Assad the Elder, fled, a stateless person by virtue of no passport, but he got a green card, very good software engineer, smart as a whip.
But yes, the regime was quite stable and our good buddy at times until the PNAC/GCC people came along with their bizarre and dogmatic agenda.
Unless we want to take over and run the place ourselves, see Iraq for how that goes, we'd do better to butt out or begin a long-term strategy to build an indigenous revolution. There would be no problem recruiting. We actually had that working pretty well until we decided to back the fundies for the sake of expediency. Far too much is done in DC for the sake of expediency.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)another_liberal
(8,821 posts)But then why would the Russian President be demanding U.N. inspectors have all the time they need to finish their investigation? Why would he be calling on us to show our evidence that Assad's government carried out the attacks, if that evidence could well implicate Russia in producing the chemical agents used. Is he just completely illogical and/or self-destructive?
RC
(25,592 posts)
That would explain why he wants to go slow and we want to hurry up.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)than President Obama and John Kerry. Which is ridiculous but that's where many on the left are now.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Lets see the goddamned evidence!
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)that Kerry lied on Monday when he claimed Congress had been advised. That was immediately contradicted elsewhere.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And I'm disinclined to accept guilty verdicts based on secret evidence, even when the defendant is a nasty asshole of a person.
Putin thinks we're full of shit on this? Well, he's far from alone; NATO's not buying it, 90% of Americans are dubious at best, the Pentagon is expressing doubt over it, the rest of the UN is full of people who aren't sold, and so on.
if the administration has this slam-dunk, knock-down, irrefutable evidence... well... let's see it. Provide the evidence. Simple, right?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Yeah ...90 % of Americans have doubts too so what makes the worshippers right? Did they believe Saddam had WMD's too? Probably.
exactly right. President Obama was willing to sell out many on the Left with CPI. You bring out many on the Left again, so is this an attack on the Left by so called Blue Dog Democrats? They do usually sell us out to corporate interests and Wall Street. Obama did say he was more of a Republican than a Liberal. Who did these so called Bluedog Democrats blame for the IRS debacle now? How did and whom did Mr Obama listen to?
John Kerry is one of the wealthiest men in Congress and he married into wealth. What was his excuse for voting to attack Iraq now? Isn't he the same guy wanted John McCain as his vice President and didn't he get recommended by the same John McCain, Lindsy Graham and Susan Collins for the job of Secretary of State after they vowed to vote aganst Rice. Now why were those three so adamant about Mr Kerry being the Secretary of State? Could it be they knew before hand what he would do? I think the real John Kerry has now been exposed after his many flip flops.
It is very interesting people keep focusing on the Russian President and think no other country can gather intelligence but the U.S. and her Allies. The primary sources of the U.S. Intelligence comes from none other than the Israeli Mossad. They are known for deceit. Other sources come from none other than these mysterious rebels supported by the U.S.,especially Saudi Arabia, the same Prince of Saudi Arabia whom tried to bribe Putin last week. The same Saudi Prince that arms the rebels. The same Saudi Prince that has influence over the main political leader of the SNC. The same Saudi Prince that made a deal with the Israelis to buy Israeli arms for the rebels. The other culprit is none other than the Prime Minister of Turkey, whom alleged Assad used chemical weapons earlier on a visit to the United States with Mr Obama.
It has also been rumored in the media through lesser headlines, that President Obama on his visit to Israel, gave assurances to Netanyahu, the time would be right to confront Iran militarily by the end of the year. It was a matter of military preparation. The same President Obama that favored entitlement cuts over military cuts.
Then again the excuse the Bluedoggers bring up is he got us out of Iraq and is doing it in Afghanistan. Well, if you shift your forces to Turkey, Israel, Qatar, Saudi Arabia,and Jordan, it could be preparations for a bigger War. They also give these false numbers from some Blue Dog organizations claiming to be progressives, but if you examine who their donations come from will be revealing. They get a lot of donations from Pro Israeli groups. President Obama is no different than any other American politician in this country, influenced by Jewish groups or Pro Israeli organizations. The man is bought and payed for apparently.
The sooner he does something to upset those groups, Obama will feel the political pressure from the Media, Corporate Interests, neocons, Blue Dogs, and every Pro Israeli group in this country. They have made sure the Interests of Israel is the same as our own country, and sometimes they have went even further with their actions to put Israel's interests ahead of our own. No it isn't just coming from Putin, but is very revealing now around the World in other countries. We are losing respect all around the World and people just don't trust this country anymore. So don't just focus on Putin.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)fujiyama
(15,185 posts)If the US is being fed intel by the Saudis and Turks, I'll trust the Russians over them any day. Both of those countries are ruled by Islamist thugs. Putin is a thug too, but at least we know the Russians don't back Jihadists. The Saudis, like the Russians are interested in securing their oil interests - but the Saudis have another side agenda of spreading Wahhabiism throughout the region.
I think the US should stop being the de facto Saudi military. We're their bitch. If they're so concerned about Assad let them and Turkey intervene is Syria. I don't think we need to get into this Russian/Saudi proxy war.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Vladimir Putin has rejected US intelligence claims that Bashar al-Assad's regime used chemical weapons in Syria, saying it would be "utter nonsense" for government troops to use such tactics in a war it was already winning.
"That is why I am convinced that [the chemical attack] is nothing more than a provocation by those who want to drag other countries into the Syrian conflict, and who want to win the support of powerful members of the international arena, especially the United States," Putin told journalists in Vladivostok.
The Russian president also challenged the US to present its case for military intervention to the UN security council, after suggesting that if Barack Obama was worthy of his Nobel peace prize, he should think about the possible victims of any intervention by foreign forces.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/31/syria-un-weapons-inspectors-leave
Putti says its pants.
Little Star
(17,055 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 31, 2013, 11:55 AM - Edit history (1)
long before the US started complaining that the Syrian Govt. was.
This report is part what he uses in his argument that the rebels using CWF.
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13920401001139
(oops had forgot to add link)
Maybe both sides of the Syrian was have used them?
treestar
(82,383 posts)There is evidence.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)"He really is claiming it is possible it did not happen?" pffft
John2
(2,730 posts)to other Posters, including myself, you would have been informed, instead of listening to the usual propaganda from the rebel supporters. The Russians have a media and journalists also. People must think the U.S. and the West is the entire World of information. The Russians actually had their own journalists travel to Syria to report on the War. One was even injured in an assault by the rebels. I don't know any American journalists or many that have traveled to Syria but there have been Russian journalists reporting on the War and gathering evidence disreputing what the rebels claimed. I think the Russians, Syrians, Iranians, and some other countries can present evidence to back up their statements. They have eyewitness and hard evidence the rebels have used chemical weapons and where they were getting it. I don't think the U.S. and her Allies want that shown in open Court. Especially Israel, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey. Lets have it all in a open forum and let the chips fall where they may. Someone will be embarrassed and so will their countries if deceit is shown. Whom sdo yopu really trust?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Since you are so much more informed you should be able to provide a link to Putin denying there was any use of gas by any side.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Little Star
(17,055 posts)some saw planes, some saw rockets used to deliver the chemical weapons.
I don't think any of them are lying but I do believe they, from which ever vantage point, witnessed different things.
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)Response to Government References to MSF Syria Statement
Over the last two days, the American, British, and other governments have referred to reports from several groups, including Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF), while stating that the use of chemical weapons in Syria was “undeniable” and designating the perpetrators.
MSF today warned that its medical information could not be used as evidence to certify the precise origin of the exposure to a neurotoxic agent or to attribute responsibility.
On August 24, MSF announced that three hospitals it supplies in Syria’s Damascus governorate had reportedly received 3,600 patients displaying neurotoxic symptoms, of which 355 died. Although our information indicates mass exposure to a neurotoxic agent, MSF clearly stated that scientific confirmation of the toxic agent was required, and therefore called for an independent investigation to shed light on what would constitute, if confirmed, a massive and unacceptable violation of international humanitarian law.
MSF also stated that in its role as an independent medical humanitarian organization, it was not in a position to determine responsibility for the event. Now that an investigation is underway by United Nations inspectors, MSF rejects that our statement be used as a substitute for the investigation or as a justification for military action. MSF's sole purpose is to save lives, alleviate the suffering of populations torn by Syrian conflict, and bear witness when confronted with a critical event, in strict compliance with the principles of neutrality and impartiality.
http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/press/release.cfm?id=7033&
iamthebandfanman
(8,127 posts)MADE IN RUSSIA on the side ?
Why anyone would listen to the man ARMING THE SYRIAN ARMY for the past 2 years is beyond me...
but since we live in the age where United States = EVIL no matter what.. I guess youll look to tyrants for help on your position.
Evasporque
(2,133 posts)tabasco
(22,974 posts)(worked for Stalin)
