Colorado recalls: Sen. John Morse concedes, vows to "continue to fight"

[brooklynite]

Source: Denver Post

COLORADO SPRINGS — Colorado Senate President John Morse thanked and urged fellow lawmakers to continue fighting Tuesday as voters ousted him from office for his support for stricter Colorado gun laws.

"It has been an honor to represent the 11th Senate District," said Morse, who is the first Colorado lawmaker to be recalled and thrown out of office. "It's been hugely rewarding."

With about 86 percent of returns counted in the historic recall election of Democratic Senate President John Morse show 52 percent have voted "yes" and 48 percent "no."

Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_24064007/colorado-recall-morse-says-turnout-lower-than-he.html

[TwilightGardener]

1. Brave and classy guy, did what he thought was right, in the state of Aurora and Columbine.

Good for him for standing up.

[Hoyt]

2. Another reason to distrust gun cultists.

[yeoman6987]

39. RECALL ELECTIONS

We need to regroup and figure out a way to win these things. This is the second recall we have lost that I can remember. We lost in Wisconsin with Governor Walker and now Colorado. I wonder what we can do to get people to vote in these recalls.

[sendero]

84. We lost...

... because the people who favor the small common-sense reforms of gun laws don't care enough about it to go to the polls. The people against the reforms care a lot.

I am a gun-rights supporter but I favor universal background checks and magazine capacity limits. They are not an unreasonable infringement on my right to have a gun any more than requiring a license to drive is some kind of infringement.

But the rabid pro-gun folks are masterful at convincing folks that these things are the camel's nose in the tent and so they win.

This is an unfortunate loss for CO and the country.

[totodeinhere]

92. We did win a high profile recall in Arizona when Russell Pearce was recalled in 2011. n/t

[mwrguy]

3. Those gun-humping shitbags need to pay

for subverting democracy like this.

[brooklynite]

4. Complain all you want about the outcome...

...but how is voting in an recall election "subverting democracy"?

[WCLinolVir]

6. Gee who paid for the recall?

[bossy22]

13. If you are inferring that the NRA put alot of money into the recall

you might be correct. But you can't ignore big money on our side (Bloomberg et al)

There were special interests on both sides- the only difference is the NRA and pro-gun groups are good and mobilizing voters

[Laelth]

28. An honest semantic question.

How exactly do Bloomberg et. al. make money from gun control laws? Perhaps they do. I honestly don't know, but I find it hard to call the groups fighting for gun control "special interests." The NRA, on the other hand, is undoubtedly a "special interest" because it's largest contributors stand to make a lot of money from keeping the gun trade unrestricted.

Does this difference (those who advocate bad public policy primarily to increase their own profits vs. those who want to do the right thing and stand to make no money from their advocacy) factor into your own use of the term "special interests"?

Should it?

-Laelth

[sir pball]

46. Because "special interests" doesn't mean "make money".

Plug "special interests" into Wikipedia and this is what you get:

Advocacy groups (also known as pressure groups, lobby groups, campaign groups, interest groups, or special interest groups) use various forms of advocacy to influence public opinion and/or policy; they have played and continue to play an important part in the development of political and social systems. Groups vary considerably in size, influence, and motive; some have wide ranging long term social purposes, others are focused and are a response to an immediate issue or concern.
Motives for action may be based on a shared political, faith, moral, or commercial position. Groups use varied methods to try to achieve their aims including lobbying, media campaigns, publicity stunts, polls, research, and policy briefings. Some groups are supported by powerful business or political interests and exert considerable influence on the political process, others have few such resources.

While the NRA's donors stand to make money, I'd still consider MAIG/Brady/et al to be "special interests", same as I'd consider Focus on the Family or PETA - all groups that exist more or less solely to promote sociopolitical agendas.

[Sunlei]

56. bottom line is no mail in ballots were allowed in Colorado.

people were allowed to vote who said, "they may move to that district someday"

That's what 2014 and future vote chances will look like if Rs are allowed to get away with this.

[wild bird]

57. People were allowed to vote who said, "they may move to that district someday"

Link please.
Somehow I find that hard to believe, but if you have a reputable link, then there was something fishy going on.

[Sunlei]

59. here you go, you'll have to do the search to read how district switching was allowed.

search the persons name and it's explained in great detail in several articles. Here's one of the articles.

Jon Caldera, the president of the libertarian-minded Independence Institute, changed his registration from Boulder, Colo. to El Paso County, Colo. He was only required to affirm that he intends to make Morse’s district his permanent home in order to vote in the election to recall Senate President John Morse.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/09/how-almost-anyone-can-vote-in-the-colorado-recall-elections/

[wild bird]

61. You've got to be kidding me.

Sen. Giron was the sponsor of this bill?
Talk about the ultimate irony!!!!

I wonder how many people actually took advantage of this new law.
Would be interesting to find out if it affected the outcome at all, it could just as easily be used by both sides.

[Sunlei]

62. sometimes laws don't work as intended & people take advantage of 'loopholes'

We will never know how many got a registration change just to vote in that local recall

I don't think registration changes are public record for counties. Who knows how many counties, local districts have that in their registration form? This could be a common tactic to get local votes.

[Mojorabbit]

78. This is a crazy law! nt

[hack89]

58. That voting law was passed this year by a Democratic legislature and signed by a Democratic Governor

Lawmakers passed HB1303 during the 2013 legislative session in an effort to improve voter participation. It required mail ballots be sent to every voter and that instead of precincts, voter service centers would be open where people could register to vote or change their address through election day. Previously, voters had a 29-day window to register before elections, among the longest blackout periods in the nation.

The new law is getting its first trial run during the recall elections in Pueblo and El Paso counties. Sen. John Morse, D-Colorado Springs, and Sen. Angela Giron, D-Pueblo, are facing recall elections where voters will decide whether to keep them in office or oust them over gun laws they supported last session.

http://gazette.com/county-clerk-discounts-voter-fraud-allegations-in-colorado-recall/article/1505965

The repukes had nothing to do with it.

[Sunlei]

60. doesn't matter who made the law. It's law and can be used to add district votes.

Who knows how many people claimed they were going to move to that district someday and voted in that recall election? was a smallish election a few hundred could have done it.

[hack89]

63. "if Rs are allowed to get away with this."

what exactly did the Rs get away with? That you can actually prove?

[Sunlei]

64. Well it was legal and one lost by less than 400 votes...so how many cheated?

How many 'pretended' they were going to move to the recall district someday just so they could vote?

[wild bird]

66. Just to be fair,

both factions might have taken advantage of this new law.

Personally, I don't think this law made a difference one way or the other, they probably cancelled each other out.

[Sunlei]

68. just to be fair? The 'tactic' to cheat for extra votes is a bad law and has to be fixed.

This type of 'may be a future resident so I can vote now' could be in many local counties across the USA.

A definite win district can move a couple thousand votes to a swing district and make the difference. It's 'legal' this kind of loophole will be abused.

[wild bird]

75. I'm not arguing that this law needs to be fixed,

my point is that if one side took advantage, it stands to reason that the other side did also.

[Sunlei]

79. so we all are *maybe* going to move to some red county that needs a few hundred blue votes :)

I think it's better and fairer to fix the loophole. Besides Rs will amend a means test to the law and find out I can't afford a house in Colorado Springs. and that will be a felony charge

[Koko Ware]

86. Here.

http://coloradopols.com/diary/48957/meet-jon-caldara-colorados-new-and-maybe-only-election-scofflaw

And this idiot did cast the ballot (albeit blank), committing a felony.

[hack89]

88. Your link says that one voter did it as a protest

and those running the elections say it did not impact the results.

El Paso County Clerk Wayne Williams says to his knowledge, nobody besides Caldara has even tried this, because the circumstances where one could even plausibly attempt it are in fact quite limited. Williams reaffirmed that it's a felony to lie on the sworn affidavit Caldara signed, and that he will refer such attempts for prosecution. In Pueblo, Clerk Gilbert "Bo" Ortiz reports that only 39 voters have same-day registered out of some 11,000 votes cast, and all of them were required to legally affirm their residence.

[Laelth]

74. I like my definition better.

I find it more useful. To each one's own.

-Laelth

[Mojorabbit]

77. In the end, the citizens voted and made their preferences known. nt

[Robb]

10. Are you complaining about the outcome?

[brooklynite]

17. I'm not happy about it...

...but I don't define "subverting Democracy" as people voting in a way other than I would.

[warrant46]

33. This rational allowed the Egyptian military's Coup to overthrow an elected government

In this case the republicans motivated their base more effectively.

Also according to my cousin in CO the "natives" took more umbrage at "16 ounce soda man" New York Bloomberg spending half a million to educate them than the gun lobby. We need to take a lesson from this and motivate our base.

Also Bloomberg turns a lot of people off by his condescending attitude ----he doesn't need to be the point man

[Eleanors38]

50. Good points. There is a clear vacuum in gun control "activism,"

and Bloomberg has filled it. He KNOWS there is a national stage in this because of MSM's big bias against guns; he can gin up a local election, step in and dominate with all the publicity attaching thereto, create a national "issue," and walk away the winner no matter the ourcome.

It's about him and his future plans.

[CTyankee]

71. He is also a New Yorker and Jewish. Sorry to have to remind folks here that there is such a

thing as anti-semitism...and a bias against "New York". We don't like to talk about it, but it does exist...and I am sure it was exploited to hell and back by many on the recall side of this...

[warrant46]

87. Yes one only need to look at some of the old Jesse Jackson remarks

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/frenzy/jackson.htm

[CTyankee]

89. it goes back a lot further than 1984...

tho your using that example is interesting.

[warrant46]

90. I know that

I guess I wanted to tell you I suspected that particular brand of prejudice is more widespread and very non-politically correct

[CTyankee]

91. and so...what? If you have to go back to 1984 and with one person (who renounced that

belief later), then I don't get your point.

[bossy22]

12. I agree

Though the outcome is not what we would like I don't see this as "subverting democracy"

Maybe the silver lining will be that we will stop delving into gun control and start worrying about more important things

[Wabbajack_]

35. More important than dead children?

[Llewlladdwr]

70. It's always for "The Children", innit?

There's more to the Progressive agenda than gun-control. Please stop trying to derail it.

[CTyankee]

73. My brother's daughter was killed in gun violence. I'm in this because of that. It killed him.

Please don't talk to me about the Progressive agenda.

[Llewlladdwr]

80. I'm sorry for your loss CTyankee.

But that doesn't change the fact that gun-control is a losing issue.

[CTyankee]

85. Only if we accept that (which is what the other side wants us to do...that's part of this effort...)

They want us to give up.

The answer is NO.

[wild bird]

94. My condolences to you for the loss of your neice CTyankee.

Never surrender on gun control.

[CTyankee]

95. thank you.

We need some help in common sense gun control and I am not seeing it anywhere. What has happened? Why don't our DUers who proclaim their allegiance to "sane gun control laws" get traction? If it is true that what they say about most Americans wanting just those kinds of gun laws, why aren't we getting them? I don't get it...

I am waiting patiently for a swell of support for these common sense gun safety laws but I am not hearing it. Why isn't there a national movement of rational gun owners to form such a group? If the majority of Americans are FOR the 2nd amendment but want these laws, why hasn't that group materialized?

These are real questions I have going forward. I want to believe, but it is hard....

[wild bird]

96. I hear ya.

I thought after the horror of Sandy Hook, we could get something done, now it's like it never happened with most of the American people.

What happened in CO. wouldn't have happened if people had just gone to the polls and voted, but no, they were too busy watching Ameican Idol, or some such nonsense.

Some days I wonder why I even continue to try. It's like , but, we've got to keep on plugging along hoping against hope that the people come to their senses.

[CTyankee]

97. I think lots more would have voted if they had mail in ballots. After all, it's what they were

accustomed to doing, just as I am accustomed to in-person voting (except when I am out of the country and need to use absentee ballots). When there is confusion about where/how to vote, it causes fewer people voting. In CT we have good faith efforts whenever your polling place changes for that very reason. Our secretaries of state have been very good assuring that every effort is made to get the word out, but it still causes problems.

The way I see it, if lots of voters in CO didn't know they wouldn't have the mail in option and at the last minute had to either curtail work time (resulting for some in a reduced paycheck which lots of people can't afford), find/hire/pay for a caregiver for a child or elderly/disabled, arrange for a ride, etc, well, that could very well negatively impact the exercise of their right to vote. So I am not so swift in condemning people for not voting under those circumstances.

Of course, the NRA knows this! All they need to do is throw enough confusion and actual hardship at average, non fanatical, voters and hell, yes, they can limit the franchise! They are a very powerful organization, leading a band of gun fanatics, supported by VAST sums of money from the very right wing Koch Brothers.

Is THIS the way we want our democracy to work? And all for the glorification of a radical interpretation of the 2nd amendment which was vigorously dissented from by the liberal wing of the Supreme Court? I like to remind the gun enthusiasts here, who engage in this kind of glorification, that they are in essence admitting that they are out of step with the most basic philosophy of this web site. This is a far cry from saying "some Democrats have guns." No, they think the liberals and progressives here should tolerate their advocacy of everything we are against!

[davepc]

5. How is an election subverting democracy?

If the pro gun control movement cant encourage voters to go to the polls to protect politicians who carry their water then they have only themselves to blame.

[liberalhistorian]

7. Like the "guns uber alles"

cult doesn't have a ton of politicians in their own very deep pockets? Please. Fucking gun nuts.

[davepc]

8. What does that have to do with the results of the recall election?

If pro gun control supporters went to the polls and voted to protect their representatives who voted for their issue the recall would of been a failure.

Gun control has massive appeal. 90%+ according to the polls that are often quoted.

[WCLinolVir]

9. Who paid for the recall? Who paid for the air time?

The mailers. The gun lobby. It's not about rights, it's about money.

[bossy22]

11. the state of colorado

but big donors like Mike Bloomberg were involved supporting democratic candidates

[WCLinolVir]

14. Who paid for the petitions for the recall? The advertisement. The mailers.

And you left out the NRA. The state of Colorado paid for the balloting, yes.

[davepc]

16. President Obama won Morse district by 21 points.

Did all that NRA money go to physically restraining these Obama voters to keep them from the polls?

[sweetapogee]

29. your assignment for today...

write a 500 word essay educating the public at-large on how much money was spent and how the money was used on both sides of this election! Don't forget to footnote!

[hack89]

30. The anti-recall side outspent their opponents 6 to 1

if it was a matter of money then the recall would have failed.

Democrats dramatically outspent Republicans. Combined, Democratic-aligned groups spent $2.3 million, while GOP-aligned groups spent just $482K—$361K of that directly from the NRA. Indeed, without the NRA, there's no recall. Furthermore, most of the spending on the Democratic side has been from the campaigns themselves, not outside groups. (Note that our fundraising has been directly to the two candidates, which can use the money most effectively.)

Democrats have run 2,346 of the 2,490 ads aired in the campaign. The Republicans running in the recalls haven't run a single ad. Now if either Democrat loses this recall, it'll be further proof for my theory that TV advertising is increasingly irrelevant. But this is a special case—Republican wingnuts don't need to be told by the TV box that there's a recall. They're activated and motivated. It's lower-performing Democratic voters that need to be educated and mobilized. Thus it follows that every single Republican ad in the race has been negative, but only two of the nine Democratic ads follow suit

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/09/10/1237859/-As-we-wait-for-Colorado-recall-results-here-s-some-trivia

[7962]

44. According to the news, the Democratic candidates were backed 3 to 1 in money

So it wasnt the amount of money that took this

[wild bird]

15. Subverting democracy?

How?
The voters spoke, I don't like the results, but it was done fairly.

[StevePaulson]

18. Republicans Want Every Child Shot

Plain and simple. Disagree? Name one thing Republicans have done to protect children or others from gun violence. (crickets chirping)

This is like Walker escaped recall in Wisconsin. By having the billionaires he works for outspend his opponent 8 to 1.

Anyone that thinks we live in an democracy simply can't count......

http://www.RepublicansAreADisease.com

[davepc]

19. According to Kos Democrats spent more

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/09/10/1237859/-As-we-wait-for-Colorado-recall-results-here-s-some-trivia

Democrats dramatically outspent Republicans. Combined, Democratic-aligned groups spent $2.3 million, while GOP-aligned groups spent just $482K—$361K of that directly from the NRA. Indeed, without the NRA, there's no recall. Furthermore, most of the spending on the Democratic side has been from the campaigns themselves, not outside groups. (Note that our fundraising has been directly to the two candidates, which can use the money most effectively.)
You guys contributed about $150K of the $913K raised by Angela Giron (16 percent), and $160K of the 658K raised by John Morse (24 percent).

Democrats have run 2,346 of the 2,490 ads aired in the campaign. The Republicans running in the recalls haven't run a single ad. Now if either Democrat loses this recall, it'll be further proof for my theory that TV advertising is increasingly irrelevant. But this is a special case—Republican wingnuts don't need to be told by the TV box that there's a recall. They're activated and motivated. It's lower-performing Democratic voters that need to be educated and mobilized. Thus it follows that every single Republican ad in the race has been negative, but only two of the nine Democratic ads follow suit.

Is he wrong or lying?

[Eleanors38]

51. Shhh! There is new doctrine & history beeing brewed up this very minute.

[gopiscrap]

20. I fully agree

[John_Carter]

25. Gun safety education would probably fall in that category...

[warrant46]

34. No Scotty won because the Dem base stayed home

When the base voted in Nov 2012 they elected PROGRESSIVE (D)Tammy Baldwin to the US Senate and re-elected Barack Obama.

Tammy is a jewel in the cesspool Senate

[world wide wally]

21. I live here and stop misleading people into thinking it was a vote across the entire state of

Colorado. The recall was limited to his district which is in the heart of the most conservative county in the country... El Paso County. This is the Vatican of Evangelism and home of rootin' tootin' gun freaks. It was a miracle that he was elected to begin with.
What was proved was that if you don't vote the way the NRA wants you to... fuck general elections. They will just spend the money to recall you and get their lackeys to get out and vote their way. The entire vote count was under 25,000 people in the most conservative county in the nation so don't try peddling the polls are wrong bullshit. I know where we are and El Paso county has absolutely NOTHING going for it except the natural beauty.
Fuck the NRA

[hack89]

31. And that district voted for Obama in the presidential election, right?

so it would appear that there are a bunch of Dems that support gun rights.

[warrant46]

36. I have seen this before

Union workers voting for pukes because guns, god and putting down gays is more important than keeping their nice jobs.

And a certain religion also helps the pukes with its priests railing against abortion

[hack89]

37. Or perhaps there are Democrats that support gun rights

and ignoring them comes with a price?

[warrant46]

38. For sure

I have relatives that love hunting, hated Bush and the corporate types, but are mislead by ads which show Pelosi, Bloomberg and Feinstein saying " If I was in charge I would round them all up" and voting for the same Clowns that eventually will ship their jobs to Viet-Nam of China

[sir pball]

47. If you lived there, would you have voted to out them?

I probably wouldn't have.

[hack89]

48. No - I support Dems against repukes every time. nt

[world wide wally]

81. Absolutely wrong again!

El paso county went 58% for Romney...nice try

[hack89]

82. El Paso County encompasses three state senate districts

his is the most liberal. It went to Obama by 59%.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Av8O-dN2giY6dFRHMDVYc1JUcEI0NEpJOUVnUnFRcmc&single=true&gid=9&output=html

[world wide wally]

93. That would be my district... The other are politics usual in el paso county

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

22. At least those recalled can take solace that they did the right thing

Meanwhile, the gun nuts will have blood on their hands again before long.

[The Last Dem.]

23. the trouble

with this recall is, the whole state should have been able to vote on this recall issue. As a whole he represents the whole state…so the whole state should have been able to vote, not just his district. Having said that, he still done well even though he lost he had 48 percent of the vote’s against 52 percent, not bad. El Paso County has not heard the last of this.

[S_B_Jackson]

27. It's likely that you're going to get your wish....

there is now a grass roots effort in the works to have a constitutiona provison placed on the 2014 November ballot which would rescind the magazine capacity restrictions that the CO legislature enacted.

http://putittothepeople.wordpress.com/

The ballot title and submission clause designated and fixed by the Initiative Title Setting Review Board is:

Shall there be an amendment to the Colorado Constitution prohibiting any restriction on the purchase or possession of ammunition storage and feeding devices other than a restriction enacted by a voter-approved law?

The proposed Constitutional Amendment is:

SECTION 32. GUN MAGAZINES — NO LIMITATION OR RESTRICTION

NO LAW, EXCEPT A LAW ENACTED BY A VOTE OF THE PEOPLE, SHALL RESTRICT OR LIMIT THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO PURCHASE OR POSSESS AMMUNITION STORAGE AND FEEDING DEVICES OF ANY CAPACITY.

It's likely that the the petition will be successful, and this November it will be on the ballot state-wide. I suspect that gun control mavens, Michael Bloomberg and his Gang of Illegal Mayors, and Gov. Hickenlooper will not be pleased with the result.

[Koko Ware]

43. Well, that's going to be shot down, no pun intended.

And won't even get the signatures they want.

In fact, if a moron approaches me with it, I'll just sign Mickey Mouse and tell them to shove it. If Mr. Mouse is suddenly a Colorado resident and a registered voter, then I'll know these people are morons.

[DFW]

24. The old adage remains true

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

If not enough Democrats saw fit to turn out to defeat the recall, then they have no one else to blame. This was a serious defeat despite the local nature and relatively small numbers involved. I hope it serves as a wake-up call. Tip O'Neill was not wrong when he said that "all politics is local." It's where most people get started, as witnessed by one Barack Obama. When people mention "community organizer," the key word is "community." These two districts were predominantly red, but obviously still winnable.

[CTyankee]

32. Lesson learned, I hope.

Money alone cannot do it. It has to be the people's fight. I don't know anything about this district, but if the messaging was not clear and did not answer questions in people's minds then that could certainly result in this outcome.

[CTyankee]

40. DFW, did you see this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=323376

Hmm, that shows that there was more afoot than we thought...voter suppression tactics...lovely...

[onehandle]

26. Just one Rep. This age of dumb will not last. Gun nuts are shooting themselves in the foot.

And often do, literally.

[Sunlei]

41. can the recall election be voided because mail in ballots weren't allowed?

Co state law requires mail-in ballots for all elections, even recall elections.

[wild bird]

49. No.

The Colorado Supreme Court struck this law down.

[Sunlei]

52. so I guess the same R tactics to kill voting- will happen to Co votes 2014 and 2016.

if they got away with this today, then bend over for 2014.

[wild bird]

54. The decision was 5-2.

It was challenged by a Libertarian.

[hack89]

55. The voting law (passed by Dems) conflicted with the state constitution

regarding the time allowed for candidates to gather signatures to get on the ballot. A judge says the constitution took precedence over the voting law - which one would expect.

The voting law was flawed and needs to be fixed.

[Koko Ware]

42. Even though both are recalled.

It was still ineffective.

1) Morse was term-limited anyway, and it leads the way to Morgan Carroll who happens to be more progressive than Morse. Not only the gun-owners had issues with them, but people who have worked hard with legalizing marijuana (Amendment 64) also had major issues with him - especially when it came to taxation on marijuana - he wanted and endorsed Amendment AA that will fail this fall. What that does is increase retail marijuana (as opposed to medical marijuana) taxation by 15%. That is an unfair taxation, and should be taxed and regulated like alcohol. So it wasn't just them, but also us who had problems with Morse. Now with Morse out, Carroll who is next in line for Morse's post, who is a backer of Amendment 64, won't allow any unnecessary changes what is now set as a model legislation for legalizing marijuana.

2) Even though with Giron gone, it still doesn't do any good for the Republicans, as both the idiot Teabaggers are going to be assigned where they are non-essential to the business of the State of Colorado. Even the Republican caucus wants to bury both of them so far deep that they'll be rendered useless and replaced again for the 2014 elections, knowing Pueblo (Giron's district) is heavily Democratic, and Morse's district is still a 33/33/33.

And not to mention that it's still all-Democratic legislative body.

[bossy22]

69. ineffective at what?

making a signifigant change to who controls the legislature- yes, but the recall proponents knew that.

What it will be significant in doing is neutralizing MAIG and making many other swing states think twice before taking up gun control. In the world of political consequences, these results are among the most harsh.

[ileus]

45. Now to replace him with a progressive D.

It's too late....hitching won't help. Our job now is to run a 2A progressive democrat.

[Eleanors38]

53. Yes, indeed.

[BainsBane]

67. That's an oxymoron

[CTyankee]

72. Hush. You and I know what is being done here but they don't want anyone else to know...

we shall see...

[Mojorabbit]

76. No it is not. nt

[RandiFan1290]

83. Congrats?