Syria government forces executed at least 248 civilians: human rights group [Human Rights Watch]

[Turborama]

Source: NBC

Syrian government forces and pro-regime militias summarily executed at least 248 men, women and children in one of the deadliest attacks since the start of the conflict in Syria more than two years ago, a report from Human Rights Watch said Friday.

The killings took place in the towns of al-Bayda and Baniyas on May 2 and 3, according to the the report.

The international non-governmental organization said its investigation was based on video evidence and interviews with 15 al-Bayda residents and five from Baniyas, including witnesses who said they saw or heard government and pro-government forces detain and then execute their relatives.

"While the world's attention is on ensuring that Syria's government can no longer use chemical weapons against its population, we shouldn't forget that Syrian government forces have used conventional means to slaughter civilians," said Joe Stork, acting Middle East director at Human Rights Watch.

Read more: http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/13/20465802-syria-government-forces-executed-at-least-248-civilians-human-rights-group?lite

---

Syria: Mass Executions by Government Forces

New Evidence That at Least 248 Executed in Coastal Towns

SEPTEMBER 13, 2013

(London) – Syrian government and pro-government forces executed at least 248 people in the towns of al-Bayda and Baniyas on May 2 and 3, 2013, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today. It was one of the deadliest instances of mass summary executions since the start of the conflict in Syria.

The 68-page report, “‘No One’s Left’: Summary Executions by Syrian Forces in al-Bayda and Baniyas,”is based oninterviews with 15 al-Bayda residents and 5 from Baniyas, including witnesses who saw or heard government and pro-government forces detain and then execute their relatives.Working with survivors and local activists, Human Rights Watch compiled a list of 167 people killed in al-Bayda and 81 in Baniyas. Based on witness accounts and video evidence, Human Rights Watch determined that the overwhelming majority were executed after military clashes ended and opposition fighters had retreated. The actual number of fatalities is probably higher, particularly in Baniyas, given how difficult it is to access the area to account for the dead.

“While the world’s attention is on ensuring that Syria’s government can no longer use chemical weapons against its population, we shouldn’t forget that Syrian government forces have used conventional means to slaughter civilians,” said Joe Stork, acting Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. “Survivors told us devastating stories of how their unarmed relatives were mowed down in front of them by government and pro-government forces.”

The Syrian government acknowledged its military operations in al-Bayda and Baniyas but said that its forces had killed only “terrorists.” Ali Haidar, minister of state for national reconciliation affairs, told the Wall Street Journal that “mistakes” may have been committed in the operations and that a government committee was investigating. But he also said that the government was forced to act to deny rebels a foothold in a part of Syria that many considered the heartland of the Alawites.

Much more here: http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/09/13/syria-mass-executions-government-forces

[wyldwolf]

1. ok, so when is it ok to intervene?

Just curious if there is a body count threshold. According to a Human Rights Watch estimate, the death toll in Rwanda ranged from 500,000–1,000,000.

Do we need to see those levels?

[geek tragedy]

5. answer: when the body count increases gas prices nt

[avaistheone1]

6. Human Rights Watch doesn't have a good record

on Rwanda.

The Travesty of Human Rights Watch on Rwanda
http://travesty-of-hrw-on-rwanda.blogspot.com/


I would not trust them.

[wyldwolf]

8. ok, so say you're right and the number was only half that... or a quarter of it...

Does it make a difference?

And curious as to why we should believe him and not Human Rights Watch?

[Turborama]

19. Rwanda: A dead American officer used to discredit Human Rights Watch

Who has interest in tarnishing the image and the work of Human Rights Watch in Rwanda? Who would go the extra mile in creating a fake 55-page report to discredit one of the world’s leading independent organizations dedicated to defending and protecting human rights?

A fake report with an already dead author !

=snip=

Before the reader takes a deeper look into the report, one will notice that the blog is named after the report itself. The blog was open in March 2013 and has no posts, no other pages except one page dated March 18, 2013 which contains the entire report dated March 19, 2013 and a link to download the report. In other words, the report was out on the internet (the 18th) before its own publication date (the 19th).

The Author of the report, who is also the owner of the blog is said to be ”Richard G Johnson”. Everyone will be surprised to know that the real Richard G. Johnson died in 2011 aged 90. In fact, according to Washington Post, Richard G. Johnson, 90, a retired political officer with the U.S. Foreign Service who specialized in Eastern European affairs, died on 19th November 2011 in his home in Potomac, Maryland, United States.

The problem is: the author died two years before the existence of the report and the blog belonging to him was also created by him two years after his own death. However, the same blog states that “he can be reached at [e-mail]”.

Are we talking about the same person? Yes. The author’s profile on Blogger is of Richard Johnson who “served as a Foreign Service Officer with the U.S. Department of State from 1979 to 2002, specializing in Russian, East European and North African affairs…”

No international publisher, journal, newspaper or blog posted this report but to raise awareness of that report, only Rwanda-based media wrote articles mentioning it:

More: http://www.theproxylake.com/2013/06/rwanda-attack-on-human-right-watch-dirty-tactics/

[avaistheone1]

28. This diplomat is critical of Human Rights Watch as well. Is he dead too?

Human Rights Watch under scrutiny over controversial Gacaca report

Human Rights Watch, the New York-based rights group, is long accustomed to drawing controversy in Rwanda. Whether branding President Paul Kagame’s regime as dictatorial or highlighting purported press freedom abuses, the well known and respected organization is often derided by Rwandan government officials as bias and misleading.

Its new report, entitled, “Justice Compromised: The Legacy of Rwanda’s Community-Based Gacaca Courts,” has not only helped to cement this reputation amongst local officials, but has also drawn the suspicion of an international diplomat whose own country is known for being critical of the Kagame regime.

The drama commenced on May 31, 2011 during the release of the report. In her opening remarks, Leslie Haskell, researcher at the HRW Africa Division and author of the report, told reporters that Gacaca courts had truly achieved a lot, but also left a lot to be desired.

Gacaca courts, largely built on the Rwandan community philosophy of settling disputes through truth telling and forgiveness, were introduced in 2004 to reduce the backlog of genocide cases for approximately 130,000 suspects who were languishing in prisons as they waited for their trial.

Among other achievements, Haskell said Gacaca courts helped with “locating and identifying bodies of victims and a possible easing of ethnic tensions.

However, Haskell also said that she found in “many cases that potential witnesses failed to speak out in defence of genocide suspects because they feared prosecution for perjury, complicity in genocide or ‘genocide ideology’,” a term the report alleges is a, “vaguely defined crime prohibiting ideas, statements, or conduct that might lead to ethnic tensions or violence.”

When Haskell opened the floor she was bombarded with heated questions and comments not only from government and genocide survivors, but also from members of diplomatic missions in Kigali.


- See more at: http://www.independent.co.ug/News/regional-news/4269-human-rights-watch-under-scrutiny-over-controversial-gacaca-report#sthash.M5WMrMQA.dpuf

[Turborama]

29. What is this source?

I think the comments at the end give us a clue as to how biased it is.

Anyway, it's hardly a slamming indictment of this report: http://www.hrw.org/reports/2011/05/31/justice-compromised-0

Your continued attempts to discredit HRW and distract from their findings in Syria are a failure and not worth responding to anymore.

[indepat]

27. How many does Human Rights Watch estimate have been killed in the Congo?

[another_liberal]

2. Since that has been established . . .

Now we know Syria is ruled by a brutal dictatorship which murders its own people. Since that has been established, there should be no further obstacle to our opening normal diplomatic and trade relations, such as those we enjoy with Egypt, Communist China, Myanmar, Vietnam, Indonesia and etc.

[Turborama]

3. Are you saying Indonesia is run by a brutal dictatorship?

[another_liberal]

13. It has been . . .

In the quite recent past.

Of course that never stopped us from treating them like a first class ally (including an annual military aid package).

[Turborama]

16. 15 years ago

[another_liberal]

17. Yeah?

And today they're regular Jeffersonian Democrats?

The people of West Timor hardly think so:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14952883

[Turborama]

20. Indonesia is a democracy with a constitution, it's not a brutal dictatorship

I know these things because I live there, that's why I picked up on them being put in the same bracket as Syria.

From your link...

2002 January- Truth and reconciliation commission opens to try and heal wounds of past.

Indonesia inaugurates human rights court to hold military accountable for atrocities in East Timor after 1999 independence vote.

2002 February- East Timor assembly approves draft constitution envisaging government run along parliamentary lines.

East Timor and Indonesia sign two agreements aimed at easing relations.

2002 April- Xanana Gusmao wins presidential elections.

2002 20 May- UN Security Council sets up UN Mission of Support in East Timor (Unmiset) to help East Timorese authorities.

Independence

2002 20 May- Independence: VIP guests including former US president Bill Clinton and Indonesian President Megawati Sukarnoputri join celebrations in Dili.

2002 September- East Timor becomes 191st member of UN.

2004 November- End of two-year process under which 18 people were tried by Indonesian court for human rights abuses in East Timor during 1999 independence drive. Only one conviction - that of militia leader Eurico Guterres - is left standing.

2005 April- East Timor, Indonesia sign landmark border agreement during Indonesian President Yudhoyono's first visit to Dili since coming to power.

2005 June- Remaining Australian peacekeepers leave.

2005 August- Truth commission, set up by East Timor and Indonesia, holds its first meeting. The body, which has no power to prosecute, will examine the violence that accompanied East Timor's independence in 1999.

Look you made a possibly mistaken false equivalence between Assad's brutal dictatorship and Indonesia. It's ok to admit you made a mistake (or just drop it) and move on.

[another_liberal]

24. Take Indonesia off the list then (though, in my opinion, it still deserves to be on it).

How about Egypt, Communist China, Myanmar, Vietnam and every other brutal, murdering dictatorship we support without ever a hint that we need to go bomb-balls into their internal affairs with all the cruise missiles our Navy and Air Force can fire?

[Turborama]

30. It's not taken off your list of brutal dictatorships if you still think it deserves to be there

Despite evidence to the contrary.

[another_liberal]

31. Indonesia is not the point.

The point is your contention that we need to treat the brutal murdering dictatorship in Syria differently than we treat the brutal murdering dictatorships in Egypt or, say, Honduras. The slaughter of Native American farmers in Central America and the mass shootings of anti-coup demonstrators Egypt don't call for the same American military response as that you seem to suggest is needed against Assad's government?

Is it perhaps instead the case that American military might has no rightful or legal purpose at all in such situations, and should be reserved for the actual defense of our country only.

[Turborama]

32. Wrong. Indonesia is the bone of contention with your list I wanted to clear up, and have n/t

[another_liberal]

34. Whatever.

(sigh)

[L0oniX]

4. Well it's too bad they don't have drones like we do that only kill terrorists.

[avaistheone1]

7. Human Rights Watch approves of drone attacks

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-hayden/cia-secret-rendition-poli_b_162916.html

So much for their credibility.

[L0oniX]

9. Another lap dog ...wow ...whodathunkit. n/t

[Turborama]

22. That article doesn't mention drones

Human Rights Watch did say this, however:

A Human Rights Watch representative, Tom Malinowski, says he urged the administration to guarantee public hearings in the countries to which they are rendered, as a protection against torture and disappearances.

And there's more in the LA Times article his (broken) link goes to:

"Under limited circumstances, there is a legitimate place" for renditions, said Tom Malinowski, the Washington advocacy director for Human Rights Watch. "What I heard loud and clear from the president's order was that they want to design a system that doesn't result in people being sent to foreign dungeons to be tortured -- but that designing that system is going to take some time."


Malinowski said he had urged the Obama administration to stipulate that prisoners could be transferred only to countries where they would be guaranteed a public hearing in an official court. "Producing a prisoner before a real court is a key safeguard against torture, abuse and disappearance," Malinowski said.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/01/nation/na-rendition1

HRW were not supporting Bush style extraordinary rendition.

[another_liberal]

14. That's why . . .

Our drones always wear white hats.

[ConcernedCanuk]

10. And the USA executes people "legally"

.
.
.

And they are in the top 5 on the list!

Ruh Roh!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment

USA kills its own,

slaughters millions around the globe . . .

nothing wrong here they say . . .

I beg to differ.

CC

[David__77]

11. And NBC report of an HRW report about May...

Late breaking news, because the article is new. I have more narrowly understood the purpose of the LBN, and has refrained from posting such new articles about old events - lesson learned.

[Turborama]

12. Human Rights Watch released their report today

When the UN release their findings/report of what happened on August 21 that will be news, too.

[David__77]

21. I understand, thank you.

My misunderstanding, a perhaps silly one.

[Daniel537]

15. CIA Propaganda, i'm sure.

The fact that some are now trashing HRW, goes to show how low some phony liberals will sink to defend their boy Assad. Try living under a dictatorship some time and then get back to me.

[ProSense]

33. "The fact that some are now trashing HRW"

Anyone who accuses Assad of the chemical attack is smeared.

Human Rights Watch
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/12/edward-snowden-to-meet-amnesty-and-human-rights-watch-at-moscow-airport-live-coverag

Expect the UN to be smeared.

[freshwest]

18. There is no 'give peace a chance' in a ground war.

Assad blew it with Syria's Arab Spring. No social progress occurred. He's an old style dictator who followed in his father's footsteps.

I don't even know if Syria has elections, or if they'd be effective in sharing power. It seems everything is determined by sects and territory, like a lot of mini-states.

Perhaps the Assads felt it their duty to hold a lot of people, who could not agree, together by force. The history of Syria goes back thousands of years but the modern state has a troubled past.

It's no wonder the USA did not want to get into this byzantine conflict. We don't have the skills needed to negotiate this minefield. Russians and Iranians have ancient ties with Syria and are best used to solve this.

We're just a bit player. Let the diplomats, no matter who they are, take care of this. We can't forget though, that the threat of the use of force and financial deals are part the diplomatic arsenal.

Whatever or whoever brings back civil society for the benefit of the people there is a winner. We don't have to like the way it plays out, there is only one goal, the resumption of peace which brings prosperity to the many and not just the minority.

[Sand Wind]

23. Yes, and not the only one...nt

[e.a.foster]

25. summary executions--syria-mass-executions-government-forces

To criticize Syria for its executions is a right and proper thing to do. However, lets not get too self righteous. How many innocent people has the American justice system executed?

Executions are simply state sponsored killing. Doesn't matter why its done. it is still killing human beings.

[gopiscrap]

26. Welcome to DU

[EX500rider]

35. Slight difference...

....between someone on death row with a full legal defense and lots of appeals to file Vs the Syrian Army pulling in your village and machine gunning all the women, men & children they can find.

[Waiting For Everyman]

36. Don't know how I managed to miss this thread.

Any who read the report can plainly see how extensively this case is documented. I have no doubt that a war crimes complaint will be filed on it.

There were entire extended families killed in this massacre, not one but quite a few. In one of them, out of 35 family members only a 3-year old girl survived. Most of the people in these two towns killed, and the few remaining fled. "No One's Left", the title, is not an exaggeration.

All of this because a few people there had helped Syrian army defectors.

It's clear from other reports that this is not an isolated incident, but the Assad regime's modus operandi. He actually is attempting to kill all of his opposition. I saw some youtube clips of Syrian news reporting a number of events like this in various places and they actually use the term "cleanse" in all of the stories, referring to eliminating the opposition in an area. That did surprise me.

I don't think Assad and his forces counted on there being any survivors' videos and accounts to get out and reach the world. I'm glad that HRW has so painstakingly collected all of this evidence, so that the killers of innocent people in this regime will not get away with this scott free.

Even though DU does not seem to care much, the international legal community seems to be taking it very seriously. Rightfully so. Actions like this massacre are just as much of a threat to the "world community" as cw are, and for the same reason. Atrocities like this in the world are all too common already, and if nothing is done about it, that trend will continue. (and yes I mean by our troops too)

Thanks, Turborama, for posting this. I'm very glad to see that you did. And at least there are some comments, even though most of them are dismissive. I'm guessing that's a psychological reaction, mostly.

[delrem]

37. If the US hadn't initiated "Friends of Syria (tm)",

or excited it's despicable puppets in Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the GCC to foment the Syrian "civil war" with mercenaries, arms and $$, the situation would be different today.

The USA, as a whole, Dems and Reps and Inds, refuses to *own it*. Likewise for the entire US ME/NA military operation.

Instead, you *lie to yourselves*, adding to the thickness of the MIC bubble, allowing this decadence to prosper and continue.

[Turborama]

39. Thanks for kicking this month old thread

[delrem]

40. Absolutely - the topic is years long, and my "kick" was just to answer you.

But that doesn't mean that my "kick" was any the less appropriate.
Thank you for reading my reply.

[Turborama]

43. I wasn't asking any questions in the OP, so you're not answering me.

I genuinely appreciated the kick, hence why I thanked you.

[pampango]

45. Here's another kick. n/t

[joshcryer]

42. I linked it in the other thread.

Had I known it'd result in a kick I would not have linked it directly (I would've linked the report). I hope the mods don't lock this now.

[Turborama]

44. don't worry. There are no mods, just hosts

And, as there's no SOP violations involved, there's no reason for us to lock it.

[joshcryer]

41. I highly doubt Friends of Syria had any material impact on this incident.

We didn't even start arming or training them until a few months ago. This event happened a year ago.

Going forward, of course, that argument could be made, but it can't be made in this particular, tragic, incident.

If anything, as Juan Cole points out, the chemical weapons attack could be more blamed on a reaction to Friends of Syria because the Syrian government wanted to get rid of those elements.

But not this.