Fisa judge: Snowden's NSA disclosures triggered important spying debate

[kpete]

Source: The Guardian

Fisa judge: Snowden's NSA disclosures triggered important spying debate
Dennis Saylor orders government to review rules on surveillance and says further declassification would protect court's integrity


The court that oversees US surveillance has ordered the government to review for declassification a set of secret rulings about the National Security Agency's bulk trawls of Americans' phone records, acknowledging that disclosures by the whistleblower Edward Snowden had triggered an important public debate.

The Fisa court ordered the Justice Department to identify the court's own rulings after May 2011 that concern a section of the Patriot Act used by the NSA to justify its mass database of American phone data. The ruling was a significant step towards their publication.

It is the second time in a week that a US court has ordered the disclosure of secret intelligence rulings. On Tuesday, a federal court in New York compelled the government to declassify numerous documents that revealed substantial tension between federal authorities and the surveillance court over the years.

On Thursday, James Clapper, pictured, the director of national intelligence, conceded that the NSA is likely to lose at least some of its broad powers to collect data on Americans.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/13/edward-snowden-nsa-disclosures-judge

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. Clapper should be in jail.

But, apparently, some folks are immune from prosecution when they lie under oath to congress.

[Jesus Malverde]

2. The FISA court is part of the problem.

Never has the intelligence community met a bunch of fanboy sycophants as they have with the "judges" appointed to the FISA court. That Snowden allows them to pretend they are relevant shows how shallow and meaningless their oversight really is.

[OnyxCollie]

8. In 2008, Obama tried to use the authority of the FISA court

as the reason to explain why he lied about filibustering the FISA amendments. (That's the rubber stamp FISA court, hand-picked by John Roberts, the Chief Justice chosen by George W. Bush, who went to Florida in 2000 on W's behalf...)

In 2007, Obama was going to filibuster any bill that gave retroactive immunity to the telecoms that helped the Bush administration illegally spy on US citizens.

Obama's wiretapping flip-flop? Yes
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jul/14/obamas-wiretapping-flip-flop-yes/

In October 2007, Obama spokesman Bill Burton issued this unequivocal statement to the liberal blog TPM Election Central: "To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies."

...

But Obama knows how to drive a hard bargain, making he (and Rahm) the top recipients in the Senate and House of 2008 campaign contributions from AT&T employees and PAC.

Obama: $270,191
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/recips.php?id=D000000076&party=D&chamber=S&type=P&cycle=2008

Rahm: $50,650
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/recips.php?id=D000000076&chamber=H&party=D&cycle=2008&state=&sort=A

...

Obama supported an amendment that would have stripped telecom immunity from the measure. But after that amendment failed, Obama declined to filibuster the bill. In fact, he voted for it. It passed the Senate, 69-28, on July 9. The House passed the same bill last month, and Bush said he would sign it soon. (McCain missed the vote because he was campaigning in Ohio, but he has consistently supported the immunity plan.)

In a message to supporters, Obama defended his position, citing a phrase Democrats fought to include that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act is the "exclusive" means of wiretapping for intelligence. The bill "is far better than the Protect America Act that I voted against last year... (because it) makes it clear to any president or telecommunications company that no law supersedes the authority of the FISA court."

[RC]

17. This should be the very scary part -

"...(because it) makes it clear to any president or telecommunications company that no law supersedes the authority of the FISA court."

[bvar22]

3. Naturally, this comes from the "Foreign" Press.

Thank gawd for them,
but the resources for uncensored and non-corporate approved information are dwindling at an alarming rate.

DURec!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

5. Mommy Jones, the Nation, a few others have to be supported by us.

it is the least we can do.

[bvar22]

7. Agree,

...and will add Rolling Stone, Democracy NOW with Amy Goodman, Bill Moyers, FSTV, RT, Thom Hartmann, Jim Hightower, and a few other Voices in the Wilderness, even Jon Stewart.

It is a sad testament to the state of "Journalism" in America when a Fake News Comedy Program is one of the few places where Americans can find insightful and pertinent Political Commentary.

[adirondacker]

22. Excellent lists! I'll add Common Dreams and Salon. nt

[Recursion]

14. Umm....

Pretty sure none of these are "foreign"

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/14/us/judge-urges-us-to-consider-releasing-nsa-data-on-calls.html?_r=0

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/09/13/intelligence-officials-admit-that-edward-snowdens-leaks-call-for-reforms/

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2048716/surveillance-court-orders-transparency-review-of-its-nsa-opinions.html

[riderinthestorm]

4. Waiting for the Snowden detractors to arrive screaming "traitor!"

and "Comrade Eddie" and worse in an vain attempt to shut down discussion over the issues/message and focus instead on the messenger.

Its hard for them to bear any news that may shed Snowden's actions in a positive light...


K&R for exposure and to continue to let the conversation happen.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

6. Wrong, that would be step two.

Step one is people attacking Glen again. Or his partner.

[riderinthestorm]

9. Unfortunately too true nt

[JoeyT]

10. At least a handful of them are too busy

yelling it in completely unrelated threads. I keep waiting for someone to scream that a picture of a kitten someone posted in the lounge looks like a Snowden loving libertarian.

[cstanleytech]

12. Ok I gotta ask (since you trolled so well) what makes you think he isnt?

Yes, he spilled the beans that the NSA was in bed with the telecoms (not a surprise though for those of us who havent had our heads up our butts the past 15 years) and ya I can get why some might admire him but what about when it comes to providing say China with info on efforts of the US at gathering intelligence in their country? Does that or does that not usually qualify as the definition of traitor according to http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/traitor ?

[JackRiddler]

15. Yay! Let's make shit up!

Any evidence that Snowden provided "China" anything that he didn't provide to all of us by making NSA files available to all? No, you don't.

"All of us" includes the US taxpayers, who are paying for this massive violation of the rights of every human on the planet. They should know what they are paying for, and the one who tells them should be seen as the good guy.

How about I don't give a fuck what Snowden supposedly provided to "China"? (I expect China would already know. This discussion reminds me a bit of the Rosenberg case, by the way.)

How about I just look at how the NSA and its corporate contractors are in inexcusable violation of the Constitution and all basics of human rights? How about I acknowledge that without Snowden, I'd know this (since it's obvious), but with Snowden, I can actually show this?

[cstanleytech]

21. Link for you

http://rt.com/news/snowden-nsa-china-hack-120/

[riderinthestorm]

19. Uhm, you can't have it both ways. Obviously you believe everyone knew this was happening

Everyone "who didn't have their heads up their butts for the past 15 years"....

.... which I presume would most certainly include China.

So any information wouldn't have been "traitorous" at all. I mean, that's clearly what you believe.

Or on the flip side, let's just say China didn't know. How do you know it was Snowden who provided them the information?

Or how about China may have taken the opening Snowden provided about US spying by the NSA in order to expose US actions against China? (since of course they "knew" the spying had been going on for the past "15 years" because China doesn't really have their "heads up their butts&quot .

Your post makes an assumption that Snowden provided intel to China when nobody knows that.

[cstanleytech]

20. Forgot carnivore already?

[JackRiddler]

23. Huh?

I don't know how you read that my "post makes an assumption that Snowden provided intel to China when nobody knows that," but if somehow such an impression was created by anything I say, which truly puzzles me, let me assure you: No. I make no such assumption! If anything, to the contrary, I say that there is zero evidence Snowden has so far provided any information to "China" that he has not also provided to "World, public." Thus "China" here is merely the red-herring of those seeking to demonize Snowden -- and thus, intentionally or not, distracting from the only real story in all this: the NSA and the unconstitutional, massive, growing, corporate contractor-enriching, and highly threatening surveillance state.

[riderinthestorm]

24. I was responding to cstanleytech

You and I are in agreement I believe.

[JackRiddler]

25. D'oh!

Can't follow the lines on the thread index properly any more.

[bvar22]

18. Nope. They can't do that anymore.

Putin has now become a great humanitarian and legitimate World Leader for rescuing working with the Obama Administration.

[JackRiddler]

26. Heh, you may have a point...

The Putin-praise may actually be coming soon, now that we are today and have always been at war with Eastasia and at peace with Eurasia.

[riderinthestorm]

11. Weekend kick! nt

[Uncle Joe]

13. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

[idwiyo]

16. K&R

[JackRiddler]

27. bump - not to forget