Democrats may bypass filibuster on debt limit

[kpete]

Source: The Hill

Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) suggested Sunday that Democrats would consider raising the debt limit with only 51 votes in the Senate.

Democrats tried to pass a $1.1 trillion increase in the debt limit Saturday, but they failed to achieve the 60 votes needed to overcome a Republican filibuster.

On "Fox News Sunday," host Chris Wallace asked Manchin to explain Sen. Dick Durbin's (D-Ill.) comment that Democrats have "several somethings" they can use as a back-up plan to raise the debt ceiling and avoid default.

"I would assume that they might be referring to the so-called 'nuclear option,'" Manchin said. "If you have to use that basically to keep this country from falling into default. Do we go to 51 votes on the Senate side to prevent that from happening?"



Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/blog-summaries/328237-democrats-may-bypass-filibuster-to-raise-debt-limit

[Liberalynn]

1. I like the idea of going nuclear on the Senate side

and getting something passed there but it still has to be approved by the House anyway doesn't it so aren't we still stuck?

[FarPoint]

2. Then let the nuclear option begin!

Do it NOW!

[Mass]

3. I sure hope they wont. At least if they want to HELP people.

a bill passed this way would definitively be a no go in the House.

[Agnosticsherbet]

7. All bills are passed that way in the House where simple majority rules.

And, really, do you think a simple CR will pass in that House?

[Buddha_of_Wisdom]

14. Ye, a clean CR will pass.

It's just that Cantor won't put it up for a vote. Asshole.

[Agnosticsherbet]

15. If Cantor won't let it come up for a vote, it won't pass.

House Rules.

[mpcamb]

39. Fine. If it's not allowed up for a vote...

They own it.
The Republicans own it completely.
Maybe we'd win back some state legislatures in '14.
People are fed up with this dysfunctional state of affairs.

[Agnosticsherbet]

40. I think that they will make the argument that Democrats refused to negotiate

that they did their job by passing a bill and they just need to control all the branches in order to get things done for the people.

It all depends on who people believe, who gets out and votes.

[Gore1FL]

8. I am to the point of believing that any bill passed in the Senate

will be a no go in the House.

[Mass]

9. I do not think so. For all their flaws,

the House Republican leaders do not want a default (they are not tea party but establishment). So they will probably put on the floor any last minute bill that got some Republican support in the Senate.

Of course, using nuclear option would make sure there is no Republican support in the Senate, no bill in the House, and no resolution in the Senate. So, I cannot see how it will help. I think we have a risk of overextending our hand.

BTW, it is suspect that Joe Manchin, a NO LABEL guy who I imagine subscribe to NO LABEL solutions, is the guy agitating this.

http://www.nolabels.org/

[Arcanetrance]

41. The Republicans have made it clear they're not letting anything pass anyway why not go nuclear

The republican leadership in the house is a puppet show the true speaker is Cantor and he has been happy to be a voice for the nuts. It's time to stop playing nice and start hitting back

[Mass]

42. Nonsense.

BTW, if you are right, there is nothing we can do. We are doomed.

[Arcanetrance]

43. What exactly is nonsense

That the republicans in the house have stated with their actions that nothing will pass unless they get every crazy demand they want. Or maybe you mean its nonsense that the house passed a rule basically making Eric Cantor speaker regardless of who holds the actual title.

[Mass]

44. Actually, this is not what the rule says

and the rule could not have passed without Boehner's agreement. Boehner has too many friends on the rules committee. He named these guys. (the rule is about a bill that has already gone to the House and the Senate and both houses disagree, bad enough, but Boehner can propose bills if he wants. This is the problem with people writing too quickly).

I dislike Cantor, but this ridiculous idea that Boehner is a puppet is stupid and dangerous as it prevents to understand the dynamics.
This said, these guys are both corporate republicans, stuck with the people they helped elect and who have no loyalty for either man.

Paul Ryan is Tea Party and he is the one who was leading the revolt Saturday when Boehner and Cantor said they would have to vote on the Senate rule. I do not know what Boehner will do at the end, but I suspect he will do the right thing and Cantor will follow.

My point was, however, that we NEED a bill. So, we better do one that can pass the House and this starts by negotiating to get Senate GOP votes. Otherwise, this is a disaster for those of us whose jobs depends on the economy,

[Arcanetrance]

45. I really don't trust cantor there's something about him I don't like or trust.

Boehner seems to weak to get his caucus under control. He's had that problem for awhile now and I just don't see that changing now. The crazy elements in the party have been stoked to the point where I don't think there's a way to put it back in a box and as I alluded to before they've shown their open contempt of the leadership they won't follow Boehner.

[Jamastiene]

32. At this point, I wonder if House Republicans will allow any vote that has

any Democratic support at all. They seem to be refusing to allow a vote on anything Democrats support. It is like the Republicans are flat out refusing to do their damn jobs. Is there nothing, other than waiting for another election, that can get someone in their place that will do their damn jobs? This is ridiculous. I'm beginning to really believe this is a coup attempt.

[BainsBane]

4. Wouldn't it still have to pass in the House?

[Justice]

5. Fantastic news. Do it. Put it on the house and let them act on it or not but put it there.

[Jerry442]

10. Exactly.

Nuclear option in the Senate to pass a clean CR.

Discharge petition in the House to bring a clean CR to the floor.

Make the R's put their votes where their mouths are and stop hiding behind the Tea Party nuts.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/house-democrats-sign-discharge-petition-government-shutdown-debt-ceiling-98219.html

(And, yes, I know the discharge petition is messy as all get out.)

[onenote]

38. The Senate already passed a clean CR.

And the House amended it and passed an unclean CR.
I fear the same thing would happen to a debt ceiling bill--the House will pass it, but with amendments the Senate and the President can't accept. (There's precedent for this -- President Clinton actually vetoed a debt ceiling extension passed by the House and Senate because it had a bunch of unacceptable crap in it.)

[efhmc]

6. Make sure the MSM knows who pushed this through.

Hope it gets done pronto.

[TheProgressive]

11. This would not be a good thing at this point in time...

As one poster already stated, the House would have to pass it - and they won't do that.

I would save that power for when President Obama invokes the 14th Amendment and
addresses the debt ceiling directly... I am sure Obama will be impeached for saving America...

[Jerry442]

16. Josh Marshall has pointed out that the 14th Amendment solution has problems

He pointed out that any T-bills issued after the debt ceiling is breached would be subject to a court challenge (even without an Obama impeachment), which would make them a way less safe investment than T-bills are now.

Might still be the least bad of all the bad choices.

[TheProgressive]

17. Something must be done - a president cannot let our country crash because a bill was not passed...

[melody]

18. So we should all prepare for mass insurrection and unrest n/t

[Liberalynn]

29. The President himself has pointed out that he doesn't think that is the solution

and he said the same about the Trillion dollar coin. Our creditors would have no assurances that the Supreme Court wouldn't immediatly act to declare such actions null and void. The bond holders and creditors would have no confidence anything they were given would be honored.

Even though I don't want to believe it and wish there was an easy way out of this, I don't think there is. I think we are screwed. JMHO. If all the brilliant people we have on the Dem side haven't figured a way around this yet, I don't think there is a way.

[Buddha_of_Wisdom]

12. Nuclear option is perfect for this..

Since the Republicans aren't playing nicely and cheating (See Cantor being the only one who decides what gets voted or not) we can square the game easily by removing Republicans from any say on anything. It's time to nuke them and let $DIETY sort them out.

[randr]

13. When your child drives the car off the cliff

you take away the keys.

[Flying Squirrel]

26. A little too late to take away the keys after that... nt

[littlewolf]

19. how can the Senate do this anyway

all spending bills must start in the house.
I also agree, anything the senate sends over
will never make it to the floor.

[24601]

23. I believe it's that all Revenue Bills must originate in the House, not spending. From Article I,

Section 7, Clause 1: "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills."

That's one of the ACA issues that may be before the court in the future since it was allowed under taxing power vice the commerce clause. The bill that became ACA originated in the House, but not as a revenue bill. The Senate substituted their ACA for the Title and entire language. I don't recall that the Court examined if that Constitutionally meets the definition of a Revenue Bill originating in the House.

[truebluegreen]

37. Wherever it starts, it has to pass the House.

How is doing away with the filibuster in the Senate going to help?

[world wide wally]

20. Just imagine how well it will go over for Republicans if they actually sue or

Impeach the President to put the country into default.
Can polling numbers slip below zero ?

[cutroot]

21. How House Republicans guaranteed a shutdown: by changing the rules

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/10/1246004/-How-House-Republicans-guaranteed-a-nbsp-shutdown#

Although I do not advocate for the nuclear option as it will be used against the Democrats, just as this will turn around and bite the republicans eventually.

[DallasNE]

22. Certain Things Are Already Exempt From Filibuster

Perhaps the debt ceiling is one of those. For instance, the budget is not subject to a filibuster and Congress routinely attaches a debt ceiling increase to the budget to pay for the spending contained in the budget. Would that mean that a clean debt ceiling bill would fall under the non-filibuster rule. I know here they are talking about the nuclear option but that may not even be necessary with a ruling from the Senate Parliamentarian.

[blkmusclmachine]

24. Theatre of the Absurd.

[Doctor_J]

25. ...yawn...

liars

[Deep13]

27. Why the hell don't they use that option more often? nt

[Zorra]

28. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. So if ya know what ya gotta do,

then do it!

[Lifelong Dem]

30. Since when have the Republicans negotiated with Obama?

Maybe Obama should have gone to them with an offer to default. The debt ceiling and Government opening would have been settled already.

"I don't think we need to go that direction whatsoever, and I think we can come to an agreement," Manchin said.

[JimboBillyBubbaBob]

31. Do it,

quit fucking around with this miscreants.

[Champion Jack]

33. Do it, use the nuclear option

And Manchin is still an asshole

[truebluegreen]

36. Yeah, I noticed he didn't support the idea, even now.

[LaPera]

34. Just do it! - ALL senate bills should be a simple majority to pass, 51 votes.!

[truebluegreen]

35. Well, that's fine--I'd love to see the filibuster go away.

But how does that help anything in the House?