Saudi Arabia May Be Tied to 9/11, 2 Ex-Senators Say

[alp227]

Source: NY Times

For more than a decade, questions have lingered about the possible role of the Saudi government in the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, even as the royal kingdom has made itself a crucial counterterrorism partner in the eyes of American diplomats.

Now, in sworn statements that seem likely to reignite the debate, two former senators who were privy to top secret information on the Saudis’ activities say they believe that the Saudi government might have played a direct role in the terrorist attacks.

“I am convinced that there was a direct line between at least some of the terrorists who carried out the September 11th attacks and the government of Saudi Arabia,” former Senator Bob Graham, Democrat of Florida, said in an affidavit filed as part of a lawsuit brought against the Saudi government and dozens of institutions in the country by families of Sept. 11 victims and others. Mr. Graham led a joint 2002 Congressional inquiry into the attacks.

His former Senate colleague, Bob Kerrey of Nebraska, a Democrat who served on the separate 9/11 Commission, said in a sworn affidavit of his own in the case that “significant questions remain unanswered” about the role of Saudi institutions. “Evidence relating to the plausible involvement of possible Saudi government agents in the September 11th attacks has never been fully pursued,” Mr. Kerrey said.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/01/us/graham-and-kerrey-see-possible-saudi-9-11-link.html

[crim son]

1. How brave and noble

to suggest the obvious a decade after the fact.

[Sancho]

22. Actually, Graham spoke out about this years ago...

he openly suggested that some of the terrorists were also flown out of the country by Bush. The only difference here is the court case.

[Keystone Writer]

71. My heart goes out to Graham.

Imagine having all the evidence to reach a conclusion, that nobody else wants to believe.

I can relate.

[Rhiannon12866]

221. Senator Graham should know, he was on the Intelligence Committee and he took notes...

[FailureToCommunicate]

61. Senator Graham has tried to highlight this for years.

One of many reporting:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/08/politics/08graham.html?ref=bobgraham

[rfranklin]

103. It was probably the Saudis and the Bush Family operatives working in concert...

Bush knew exactly what was happening as he sat pondering the immensity of the moment in that Florida classroom. He may not have known the operational details but he sure as hell knew something was coming. Remember him saying, "Was it the terrorists?"

[Rosa Luxemburg]

105. Both in oil

[BlueToTheBone]

116. along with noting the first plane hit.

Yes, he was complicit and as such they should all go to prison.

[KansDem]

214. W said he "saw" the first plane hit, then later, said he was "told" about it...

I was sitting outside the classroom...waiting to go in...and I saw an airplane hit the tower...the TV was obviously on...I used to fly myself and I said 'There's one terrible pilot.’
YouTube (0'26&quot

I had been notified that a plane had hit the world trade center.
National Geographic promo (0'50&quot

Which is it? No one ever asked him to explain the discrepancies ...

[99th_Monkey]

158. 911-Truthers will eventually be 100% vindicated.

I just hope DU3 would play catch-up and get a little more ahead of the curve on it.

It's interesting, but for some reason people who I would not expect this from, are now coming
up to me and saying "did you hear about WTC building 7 on 9/11? how it supposedly just fell
down from a little fire, but it was really a controlled demolition". I think maybe the Discovery
Channel may have done something on this recently..

Once a rational mind gets wrapped around Building 7, the rest falls into place pretty fast.

[William Seger]

168. Utter nonsense

"{T}he Saudi government might have played a direct role in the terrorist attacks" is a direct contradiction to "9/11 was an inside job." The "9/11 truth movement" has fixated on controlled demolition fantasies and completely ignored the possible involvement of the Saudi government with the terrorist attack, because they refuse to admit it WAS a terrorist attack.

[99th_Monkey]

172. Are you unaware of the Saudi/Bush Crime Family's longstanding & very cozy relationship

Which explains a lot, and destroys your strawman false choice
between "inside job" and Saudi involvement. These are not
mutually exclusive or incompatible in any way, more like a
hand in glove partnership.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message475924/pg1

[William Seger]

180. Oh, so you DO admit that we were attacked by terrorists?

Congratulations; that's a big step back toward reality, and certainly not "vindication" of "9/11 truthers" and their controlled demolition horseshit.

[99th_Monkey]

181. If you want to call all those Saudi stooges "terrorists" go right ahead

and apparently you are continuing to ignore the Bush Crime Families ties to the Saudi-sponsored terrorists.

Not to mention somehow convincing yourself that buildings just fall down by themselves from a small fire.

Not my idea of rational thinking, but hey, it's a free country.

No wait! Actually it's not so free anymore, thanks to this false flag operation engineered by the Saudi
Royals and the BFEE.

[William Seger]

182. If you can demonstrate "Bush Crime Families ties to the Saudi-sponsored terrorists"

... please do so. It would also be nice if you could come up with some VALID technical reasons for dismissing the NIST explanations for the collapses and/or any VALID evidence that tells a more credible story. Until then, what I'm ignoring is your unsubstantiated claims, since they seem to be based on nothing but paranoid imaginations.

So, now your story is that the Bush Crime Family got their Saudi buddies to get bin Ladin to get KSM to get 19 "stooges" to commit a suicide attacks on buildings in which they had planted magical silent explosives? And this is an example of what you call "rational thinking?"

[99th_Monkey]

183. Please don't let any of these inconvenient facts distract you from your "rational" stupor..

Saudis Suggest Bin Laden Clan May Stay In Kingdom
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/335173/20120430/osama-bin-laden-family-saudi-arabia-pakistan.htm


Bin Laden clan flown to new life in Saudi Arabia
Masroor Gilani - April 28, 2012
Osama Bin Laden's family has been deported from Pakistan to Saudi Arabia, nearly a year after the al-Qaeda
leader was killed in a US raid.
They were flown out yesterday morning, according to officials.
Bin Laden's three widows and their children were detained by Pakistan after the Saudi citizen was killed on
May 2 in a secret US Navy SEAL operation in the garrison town of Abbottabad, north of Islamabad.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/bin-laden-clan-flown-to-new-life-in-saudi-arabia-20120427-1xq73.html#ixzz1u9dcRnPh


Michael Moore (Producer of Feirenheit 911) comments on 911
Yes the same MM movie that reveals how the BFEE spirited the Bin Laden Clan out of the US in defiance
of a national zero-tolerance "NO FLY" order from the WH within hours of the 911 disaster.
http://reason.com/blog/2007/06/19/the-awful-truth-about-9-11

MORE HERE--> https://www.google.com/webhp?sa=N&hl=en&tab=lw#hl=en&gs_nf=1&gs_mss=Bin%20Laden%20clan%20BFE&tok=JPST9yutbip0ewhwi9GOdw&pq=bin%20laden%20clan&cp=37&gs_id=5a&xhr=t&q=Bin%20Laden%20clan%20BFEE%20Bush%20Crime%20Family&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=Bin+Laden+clan+BFEE+Bush+Crime+Family&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=df41ee306381e0bb&biw=1586&bih=919

[William Seger]

187. WTF? I don't have any problem whatsoever dealing with credible facts.

This is pretty simple: If "conspiracy theorists" HAD any credible facts, they wouldn't be called "conspiracy theorists." By the behavior of "conspiracy theorists" themselves, the term has come to mean someone who religiously believes highly implausible theories about conspiracies WITHOUT good reason. "Conspiracy theorists" start with a conclusion and then try to rationalize it, but usually end up with nothing better than highly dubious claims and personal incredulity. You gave us a perfect example: your disbelief that fire can bring down a steel building, even though that's the exact reason steel buildings are fireproofed, even though people who actually understand structural mechanics say it's possible and that the NIST hypotheses make sense, and even though you can't back up your "impossible" claims with even the semblance of a valid technical argument.

"Conspiracy theorists" believe that all the evidence supporting the "official story" MUST have been faked and all the "real" evidence MUST have been covered up, so not only do they eschew evidence-based reasoning when formulating their conclusion-driven theories, they are absolutely impervious to any attempt to challenge their theories with evidence-based reasoning. And now you want to talk about "inconvenient facts?" Please...

Beats me what you're getting at with that link dump -- apparently nothing relevant to the subtopic you started -- but you jumped into a thread about a legitimate news story to claim that "9/11 truthers" were on the verge of being vindicated. As I said, that is utter nonsense: The "9/11 truth movement" is dead, for all practical purposes, and speaking as someone who has carefully watched its growth and subsequent rot, the reason is obvious to me
: It was built on bullshit from the ground up. The "movement" has accomplished absolutely nothing but to distract attention from the legitimate questions that still remain about the attack, such as this story about possible Saudi support for the terrorists. The "movement" has been far too busy fantasizing about fake hijackings and magical silent explosives planted all over occupied office buildings, and then counting how many gullible people accepted that highly implausible and completely unsubstantiated nonsense as "truth."

[99th_Monkey]

192. I think this is where we agree to disagree.

I don't claim to know what happened on 911; but I do know I don't for a minute buy the official story, and
that drip drip drip, little factoids like the Saudi involvement keep dripping out over time.

Sorry to have apparently stirred up some ill feelings you have towards the "Truthers".

No hard feelings here. Have a nice life

[rfranklin]

194. The official story was a "conspiracy theory" which was noted by the 9/11 commission chairs and other

people in a position to know. I don't know why you should cling so tightly to the official version when they don't.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Kean
On August 15, 2006, a book by Kean and 9/11 Commission Vice Chairman Lee H. Hamilton, titled Without Precedent: The Inside Story of the 9/11 Commission, was released regarding the September 11 attacks and the September 11 Commission.[18]

In the book, Kean and Hamilton write that the 9/11 Commission was so frustrated with repeated misstatements by The Pentagon and Federal Aviation Administration that it considered an investigation into possible deception by these government bodies concerning their response to the attacks.[19]


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[William Seger]

197. Maybe it would help if you try to understand what I actually said

The "9/11 truth movement" has focused on two main contentions: fake hijackings and controlled demolitions. Both are utter bullshit, and bullshit never did anyone any good. Calling bullshit on that nonsense has nothing whatever to do with "cling{ing} so tightly to the official version," which is an accusation for which you have exactly zero evidence. As I clearly said and you just as clearly ignored, the only thing the "truth movement" has accomplished is to distract attention from the legitimate unanswered questions about 9/11 -- something which I'm sure Bush and Cheney greatly appreciate.

And by idiomatic definition, thanks to "conspiracy theorists" themselves, the term "conspiracy theory" does not simply mean a theory about a conspiracy, and I'm pretty sure most people know exactly what I mean by that.

[rfranklin]

198. There are many theories and you have chosen to argue about one version...

there is LIHOP and MIHOP and in view of the many inconsistencies and seeming impossibilities of the official version there is merit in considering many different theories.

[William Seger]

200. First, it's never been known as the "9/11 theory-considering movement"

Second, there's a good reason why "truthers" can't even convince EACH OTHER what the "truth" is -- i.e. the complete lack of convincing evidence -- and instead get into knife fights with other "truthers" who don't believe what they believe. Just like religious cultists.

Third, LIHOP has never played any significant role in the "truth movement," and even though there isn't any rule that says conspiracy theories are required to be batcrap crazy, fake hijackings and controlled demolitions have come to dominate and characterize the "movement," by far.

And fourth, the "many inconsistencies and seeming impossibilities of the official version" is exactly the personal incredulity that I mentioned that "truthers" resort to when they can't find any ACTUAL evidence to support their a priori conclusions. There is no aspect of the "official story" -- whether it's correct or not -- that is so implausible as to justify the crack-pottery that the "9/11 truth movement" has become.

[rfranklin]

201. What other skyscraper "melted" and collapsed like the WTC or better yet, WTC7?

That's an example of implausible supported by many who are well qualified to make the judgment.

[William Seger]

202. Discussing specific "truther" nonsense is not allowed here

... but that question was addressed in the old September 11 forum about 26,394 times, more or less. If you're seriously looking for an answer, you can post it here and I'll be glad to help you out.

The subthread here is a response to the OP that claimed "911-Truthers will eventually be 100% vindicated" even though the OP actually suggests the exact opposite.

[rfranklin]

206. Sorry, I will stick to the topic

and deem your version, based on "facts" supplied by such trustworthy sources as the Bush administration, total "nonsense."

[William Seger]

207. Most of what we know about 9/11 didn't come from the "Bush administration"

... and virtually NONE of what we know came from the "truth movement."

[rfranklin]

208. Where did it come from? What were those unimpeachable sources?

Inquirinig minds want to know!

[William Seger]

211. You're kidding?

We know the planes were really hijacked from phone calls made by people actually on the planes.

We know WHO the hijackers were from the airline manifests, because they used their real names to book the flights.

We know that at least several of those hijackers made videos declaring themselves to be suicidal Islamists, and we know that bin Laden bragged about his involvement in the plot in other videos.

We know that three of the planes crashed into buildings and one into a PA field, from the eyewitnesses and the physical evidence.

We know that the building were NOT brought down by high-explosive cutter charges, because none of the videos -- made by virtually all the media in Manhattan, not the Bush administration -- recorded sounds anywhere near the level that that amount of explosives would have produced -- a sound that would have EASILY been heard in New Jersey -- and none of the various seismographs recorded any such shock waves.

We know that the "movement's" attempt to circumvent those inconvenient facts by claiming thermite was used, although it has never been used in a controlled demolition, doesn't work because there would be no way to coordinate melting through columns with thermite -- if that's even practical with columns that large -- with the required timing precision.

We know that there was no physical evidence of a controlled demolition by either explosives or thermite because the FEMA response team that investigated the site and collected steel samples for later analysis were mostly independent volunteers from academia and the engineering community.

We know that there is no NEED whatsoever to hypothesize about controlled demolitions because most of the real experts who worked on the NIST studies were also from academia and the scientific and engineering communities, not from the Bush administration, and we know that the "movement" has failed miserably to mount any credible technical challenges to those studies and the hypotheses they produced.

We know that other information that DID come from government sources (e.g. ATCs, FAA, NIST employees, military) was from career civil servants and military personnel, and accusing all of them (undoubtedly including at least a few Democrats who were still pissed about Florida 2000) of being "Bush administration" flying monkeys simply because they work for the government is just slanderous.

So without going any farther, we know that either the two central tenets of the "truth movement" are bullshit, or the "Bush administration" was effectively omnipotent in its ability to fake evidence and coerce thousands of people into going along with a mass-murder plot and keeping quiet about it for over a decade now. If you're really having trouble figuring out which is more plausible, consider the implausibility of claiming that the alleged plotters were so incredibly STUPID that the best plot they could come up with was so unnecessarily complicated and risky and required all that fakery and coercion when something much simpler and less risky (e.g. a handful of operatives making a few truck bombs) would have accomplished the same presumed purpose, and that they were so incredibly lucky to have actually gotten away with it.

Not that that implausibility proves anything, of course, but that degree of implausibility does mean that rational people would need some mighty convincing evidence to buy into fake hijackings and controlled demolitions. Instead, all we get from the "truth movement" is the same pattern we see in other conspiracy theories from JFK's assassination to the "moon landing hoax": The claimed evidence that would be conclusive IF it were true is highly dubious; the evidence that is sound just doesn't tell a convincing story of conspiracy because there are simpler and more plausible explanations; and all the evidence that supports the "official story" is dismissed out-of-hand as being fake for no apparent reason other than the inconvenient fact that it supports the "official story."

[rfranklin]

212. You are straying into "truther" territory with your disposition...what credible sources?

You don't seem to want to divulge those unimpeachable sources that provided you with the "facts."

[William Seger]

215. Move the goal posts much?

YOUR claim was that all the facts came from the Bush administration. I just showed you that you're wrong, but now you want me to be impressed with your ability to simply deny that they're "credible sources?"

If you aren't already familiar with the sources that provided those facts, then I suggest that you're not prepared to discuss the subject, and it's not my responsibility to to engage in the (probably futile) task of trying to remedy that ignorance.`But nonetheless, I'll give you couple of hints, just so you can't whine about not getting any: The 9/11 Commission Report has a very detailed list of sources concerning the hijackings and the hijackers, and the FEMA and NIST reports have very detailed lists of contributors.

[rfranklin]

216. Using the put down cliches much?

As mentioned before, the 9/11 commission was dissed by its own chairmen. So it is difficult to consider them an umimpeachable source. The Bushies steered the commission away from many avenues of investigation through various means including
the executive director of the 9/11 Commission Philip D. Zelikow, a longtime intimate of Condoleeza Rice.


In March 2004, Democracy Now!'s Amy Goodman interviewed former Senator Max Cleland of Georgia, who served on the 9-11 commission. Goodman began the segment with a background report:

A pair of public interest groups, the 9-11 Family Steering Committee and the 9-11 Citizens Watch have called for the resignation of the Director of the Independent 9-11 Commission, Phillip Zelikow. It turns out that in Richard Clarke's book, he reveals how Zelikow participated in Bush administration briefings on Al Qaeda prior to 9-11 and they're saying that this compromises him, since the mandate of the commission was to investigate the source of failures. It is now apparent why they said there has been so little effort to assign individual culpability. We can now see that trail would lead to the staff Director himself.



And there are a long list of engineers and scientists who don't agree with the conclusions of FEMA and NIST.

[William Seger]

219. Baloney!

> As mentioned before, the 9/11 commission was dissed by its own chairmen

That's a gross distortion of reality, and in the context of trying to justify the nonsense peddled by 9/11 conspiracy hucksters about fake hijackings and controlled demolitions, it's attempted intellectual fraud. The chairmen think they were sandbagged about military and intelligence failures and possible Saudi involvement, but both firmly believe the Commission got the basic story correct. The "truth movement" loves to quote the "set up to fail" line from Kean and Hamilton's book, but then completely ignore what they then said:

What we could not have anticipated were the remarkable people and circumstances that would coalesce with and around the 9/11 Commission over the coming twenty months to enable our success.

Kean & Hamilton: Without Precedent - The Inside Story of the 9/11 Commission, pg.15

> And there are a long list of engineers and scientists who don't agree with the conclusions of FEMA and NIST.

Baloney! Richard Gage's AE911truth group actually has very few engineers with structural engineering training, but the specific number is irrelevant. When it comes to technical issues, what's important is what they have to say about WHY they don't agree with FEMA and NIST, or in this case, what they DON'T have to say. As I've repeatedly pointed out, no one from the "truth movement" has produced ANY valid scientific and engineering reasons to refute the conclusions in the NIST reports. As a software engineer, I'm qualified to join Gage's group, even though there's no reason to think a software engineer should be able to understand -- much less criticize -- the NIST hypotheses. However, since I spent 5 years as a structural draftsman before getting into computers, there's no doubt in my mind that I have a much better grasp of the subject of structural mechanics than Richard Gage, and in my opinion, the NIST hypotheses make sense. If any of Gage's group want to try to explain to the world what's wrong with those hypotheses, they've had every opportunity to do so, and they have failed miserably.

[wildbilln864]

193. I'm a truther and I admit it was a terrorist attack.

We may disagree about who all the terrorists are though. And whether they've been exposed.

[wordpix]

188. "was it the terrorists Richard Clarke kept warning me about?"

Bush should be hauled up to international court to answer some questions

[sabrina 1]

184. Graham always raised questions about the real perpetrators of 9/11. He questioned everything,

including the 'intelligence' that was used to get us in the Iraq War. But he didn't have too many colleagues with the guts to back him up.

It was a time when we needed heroes, and there were so very few of them. He was one who refused to accept the lies we were told, but a voice in the wilderness during that time.

[OnyxCollie]

2. That's fascinating.

[truthisfreedom]

3. Two Democrats. Guess how long this will be allowed to go on.

[JJW]

4. So Bush invaded and destroyed two innocent countries and...

wasted $ 4 trillion on epic fiasco that lead to world economic collapse.

But of course, if you will recall that 911 commission blanked out (redacted) all of their findings on Saudis' roll in 911 attack.

[JDPriestly]

5. That would not necessarily mean that Al Qaeda in Afghanistan was not involved.

Bin Laden was a Saudi Arabian, wasn't he? Am I wrong about that?

[DallasNE]

17. Not Only That

But the bin Laden family owns the largest construction company in Saudi Arabia and in that capacity had close contact with the Saudi government.

The report will almost certainly dominate the first few days of Kerrey's fresh announcement he is running for the Senate in Nebraska so watch the Republicans pounce.

[christx30]

139. I remember reading

in the early days of the Iraq that the Bin Laden family construction company was who was building the American base over there. I can't find anything online to back up that memory, but it's still there. Can anyone help me out?

[newspeak]

169. bin laden family was also on the board of the carlyle group

I remember when public attention was focused on it, I believe they stepped down (or it was reported they stepped down).

[rfranklin]

107. bin Laden was probably the patsy...like Oswald in the JFK assassination...

you have to have the fall guy to make the cover story work.

[FarCenter]

177. bin Laden sleeps wit da fishes....

[libodem]

94. In a nutshell

Yes.

[newspeak]

170. he didn't waste that money

his corporate friends, including halliburton, made out like bandits.

[unionworks]

6. no shit sherlock!

Gee, what was it, 8 of the hijackers were Saudis? Maybe it's just possible they had something to do with it?

(P.s. - the reply title was directed at our electedd officials, not the op poster.)

[Suich]

7. Beat me to it!

[lob1]

13. I believe 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi.

[unionworks]

15. thanks

Gee, who'da thunk it, eh?

[sarcasmo]

156. +1

[Carolina]

39. no, it was 15/19 plus Osama bin Laden!

[2pooped2pop]

40. Oh no's

who are we gonna have to attack for this? Syria? Turkey?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

52. Iran, silly!

[russspeakeasy]

58. Damn Mexicans.

[christx30]

138. I kind of figured

that since the Saudis were involved, we'd go right to the head of the dragon: Scotland! Both countries, after all, start with S.

[Alcibiades]

141. Except that Saudi Arabia is a police state

The Saudis maintain the Ri'āsat Al-Istikhbārāt Al-'Āmah, an exceptionally well-funded intellegence service, charged with maintaining the saudi national interest, which translated into the interest of the House of Saud.

Just as it is improbable that bin Laden was able to hide in Pakistan on dialysis for so long without the aid of the Pakistani ISI, so, too is it improbable that so many Saudi nationals and funds could be mobilized without the knowledge, complicity or aid of the Saudi intellegence community.

[Enrique]

91. 15 of 19 were Saudis

the other four came from Egypt and the UAE.

[newspeak]

120. does anyone else remember when they interviewed the immigration officer after 9/11?

I remember watching the telly, they interviewed an immigration officer who said that they were informed from the top that citizens coming from SA were to be expeditiously okayed to enter the country.

And, I also watched little boot's act all smirky when he declared he hit the trifecta. They used fear on the american people to get their war hard on. I also remember right after 9/11 (on TV) that saddam hussein denounced the 9/11 act and offered condolences and to help with bringing those responsible to justice.

I wished I had recorded everything on the air after that day.

Also, little boots met with the leaders of afghanistan before 9/11. Did he threaten them with war if they didn't go along with a pipeline? And, was enron involved with that venture at the time?

I had read that the bin ladens stepped down from the carlyle group board. It seems that there has been a very, very cozy business relationship between the bin ladens and the bushes. That is something that is quite disturbing to me.

[unionworks]

127. SHERLOCK! IS THAT YOU?!

. Sorry, the accent threw me.... but seriously, what you are saying is right on the mark. If you don't mind my asking, where are you? (Roughly)

[dmr]

130. Plus Bush* gave 40 Mil to the Taliban to stop growning poppys

A lot of good that did us ...

I hate thinking of that asshole this late at night.

[unionworks]

134. even later

Than you!

[Comrade Grumpy]

159. Actually, the Taliban did suppress opium poppy that year. Then we invaded.

And poppy production skyrocketed. For the last decade, Afghanistan has produced about 90% of the world's illicit poppy and the heroin derived from it.

I don't see a conspiracy here, but a terrible paradox for the US and NATO:

1. Go after poppy production and drive impoverished farmers into the arms of the Taliban.

or

2. Leave poppy production alone and let the Taliban rake in hundreds of millions in taxes and trafficking fees to buy shiny new weapons to shoot at US and NATO forces.

[sabrina 1]

185. Not just the Bushes, during the 9/11 hearings it was revealed that several other of our elected

officials were doing business with the Bin Laden family. That was quickly hushed up though. And the day after 9/11, the press did report on the relationship of the Bushes and Bin Laden and I remember being shocked by that at the time. But then there was no more about it. I guess the press were told to watch they said.

[schmice]

133. Just 8? I thought most of them were Saudis. Anybody have that info? n/t

[southerncrone]

8. Duh

[alittlelark]

55. Exactly my response!

[tralala]

179. Double duh

[ProfessionalLeftist]

9. No kidding!

I knew that in 2001. They're just now figuring it out?

[azurnoir]

10. Saudi Arabia gosh who knew

how wonderfully incisive of these former Senators

[eridani]

11. In other news

--water is wet, and babies, puppies and kittens are cute.

[bayareamike]

12. Of course they were! That's why we invaded them and brought them to justice after 9/11

Oh wait.



To be fair, Iraq is also a middle eastern country.

[Warpy]

14. Gee you THINK?

Where identity was known, most of the hijackers were Saudis.

[Warren DeMontague]

16. And all this time, I thought it was "pagans, abortionists, feminists, gays & lesbians" who did it!

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/funnyquotes/a/patrobertson_2.htm

Guess you learn something new every day.

[lib2DaBone]

18. Why did G.W. Bush send a private plane around the country on 9-11...?

It is said that Bush sent a plane around the U.S. and whisked members of the Bin Laden Family out of the country before the FBI could interview them.

Is this true?

[scarletlib]

28. Yes,it's true.

[Orrex]

43. Is it?

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flights.asp

[JHB]

46. I'd have more confidence in the 911 Commission report if...

...the senior Democrat hadn't been Lee "wouldn't be good for the country" Hamilton. The guy never met a Republican scandal he wouln't give them a pass on.

[Orrex]

47. In that case, all we need to do

is find documentation of these secret flights, and that would be the end of it.


Instead, the claim is put forth and debunked, and then a claimant says "you can't trust them, so that proves I'm right."

Not a very convincing way to go about it.


I'm absolutely not accusing you of being a truther; I'm simply saying that the story about the bin Laden flights requires more evidence to back it up than has been put forth to date.

[JDPriestly]

60. More evidence. I am also not a truther, but this was reported some time ago.

APRIL 9, 2004--Days after September 11, 2001, with commercial flights grounded throughout the United States, the Bush administration allowed select commercial jets to fly out of the country. Four manifests from these flights have been released by Craig Unger, author of the nonfiction bestseller House of Bush, House of Saud. The passenger lists are posted online.

A September 13 flight from Lexington KY to London carried 15 passengers including eight Saudis; a Las Vegas-to-Switzerland flight the next day carried seven Saudis; a "VIP flight" from New York to Paris on September 22 carried 12 passengers including four Saudis; and another Las Vegas-to-Paris VIP flight on September 24 carried 24 passengers including 11 Saudis. Some individuals who jetted away would have been "persons of interest" in any traditional investigation, and others had round-the-clock knowledge of them.

Former Clinton and Bush counterterrorism adviser Richard Clarke was asked about the flights at the April 8 hearing of the 9-11 Commission. Clarke responded that "someone" in the Saudi embassy had requested that some persons be allowed to fly out and that he refused, kicking the request over to the FBI, which permitted them.

http://www.baltimorechronicle.com/040904SaudiCIA.shtml

On Sept. 11, 2001, one of Bin Laden's 51 siblings, Khalil bin Laden, was living with his family at their 18-acre lakefront estate in west Orange County. The bin Laden family had broken ties with Osama bin Laden in the 1980s. On Sept. 19, 2001, a motorcade of sheriff's deputies escorted the bin Laden family to Orlando International Airport, where they boarded a charter flight to return to Saudi Arabia.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-05-02/news/os-bin-laden-orlando-ties-20110502_1_orlando-fax-machine-brother-nawawi-embassy-bombings

[UpInArms]

79. well, gee - who are you going to trust?

how about this link from the past?

http://web.archive.org/web/20090504014028/http://www.saudiembassy.net/2004News/Statements/StateDetail.asp?cIndex=403

2004 Public Statement

04/28/2004
Commission staff vindicates departure of Saudi nationals in aftermath of 9-11
The following is the section of the statement issued today by the staff of the September 11 Commission with its findings of Saudi nationals departing the United States shortly after the 9/11 terrorist attacks:

"National air space was closed on September 11. Fearing reprisals against Saudi nationals, the Saudi government asked for help in getting some of its citizens out of the country. We have not yet identified who they contacted for help. But we have found that the request came to the attention of Richard Clarke and that each of the flights we have studied was investigated by the FBI and dealt with in a professional manner prior to its departure.

"No commercial planes, including chartered flights, were permitted to fly into, out of, or within the United States until September 13, 2001. After the airspace reopened, six chartered flights with 142 people, mostly Saudi Arabian nationals, departed from the United States between September 14 and 24. One flight, the so-called bin Laden flight, departed the United States on September 20 with 26 passengers, most of them relatives of Osama bin Laden. We have found no credible evidence that any chartered flights of Saudi Arabian nationals departed the United States before the reopening of national airspace.

"The Saudi flights were screened by law enforcement officials, primarily the FBI, to ensure that people on these flights did not pose a threat to national security, and that nobody of interest to the FBI with regard to the 9/11 investigation was allowed to leave the country. Thirty of the 142 people on these flights were interviewed by the FBI, including 22 of the 26 people (23 passengers and 3 private security guards) on the bin Laden flight. Many were asked detailed questions. None of the passengers stated that they had any recent contact with Osama bin Laden or knew anything about terrorist activity.

[JHB]

82. If you can point to where I make any claim on this to be "right"...

...then it will be news to me.

My point here is that Snopes cites the 911 Commission report exclusively to debunk the issue at hand. That still leaves a cloud over it.

Since you are correct that I am not a Truther, I haven't gone over it with a fine tooth comb looking for nits to pick. But I wasn't born yesterday either. Lee Hamilton has repeatedly given massive Republican scandals a pass. He did not vigorously pursue investigations of Iran-Contra (thanks in part to strong influence by co-committeeman Dick Cheney), declared allegations of drug-running by the contra-supply network unfounded without investigation, and helped suppress proper investigation of alleged collusion by the Reagan campaign in 1980 and Iran over release of the embassy hostages.

So when he was picked (by a White House where Dick Cheney pretty much ran things) to co-chair a commission about an event with potentially all sorts of Republican ass-covering, it is not unfair to have more than a few suspicions that it may be lacking in vigor at getting to the bottom of things, especially in regard to the lower-level ass-covering issues for which there was greater potential to have actually happened.

[wildbilln864]

117. see post 60!

And i AM a proud 911 truther! That simply means I know they lied and I want the truth. As opposed to anti-truthers who are against finding the truth.

[alp227]

147. Tampa Times, June 2004: "TIA now verifies flight of Saudis"

Two days after the Sept. 11 attacks, with most of the nation's air traffic still grounded, a small jet landed at Tampa International Airport, picked up three young Saudi men and left.

The men, one of them thought to be a member of the Saudi royal family, were accompanied by a former FBI agent and a former Tampa police officer on the flight to Lexington, Ky.

The Saudis then took another flight out of the country. The two ex-officers returned to TIA a few hours later on the same plane.

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/06/09/Tampabay/TIA_now_verifies_flig.shtml

[Orrex]

149. Well, shit.

Looks like I kind of fucked that one up, doesn't it?

[boppers]

161. Didn't happen on 9/11

Snopes got it right.

[nebenaube]

204. There was reams of newreel attesting to that fact at the time. n/t

[OnyxCollie]

59. Saudis House of Saud and bin Laden Family Members Leaving Us after 9/11/01.

FOIPA No. 0984725-001

http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2005/saudiflights.pdf

(U) Between the dates of 9/13/2001 and 9/17/2001, the author maintained contact with (redacted.) The Saudi Arabian group continually attempted to charter an aircraft to take them from Las Vegas, Nevada to a non-United States destination. Their efforts proved unsuccessful.

(p. 8)

[newspeak]

122. remember, at the time they were going to have kissenger head the commission

apparently, there were enough people against that idea. The administration only allowed a few on the commission to view certain documents. Also, little boots and cheney acting like the despotic shites they are, agreed to meet with the commission together; but refused to make statements under oath.

[mikeysnot]

53. Snopes is wrong on this one,

Craig Unger wrote House of Bush House of Saud, pretty much uncovered everything, from flight patterns where they landed and who they picked up and flew out of the country.

The flights weren't "secret", they were right out in the open.

The Bush and Saudi goverment pushed through a visa program to fast track Saudis to the US, without even ahving to show up in person to the embassy in SA to pick up their visa, as far as I know this program is still going. The book is from 2004, so I don't have an update on that.

That is how some of the hyjackers, or patsys got into the country with fake credentials.

[newspeak]

121. thank you!!!

I wrote above I remembered the interview with an immigration official. Those coming from SA were fast tracked into the country.

[boppers]

162. Unger agrees with snopes and vice versa.

There were no immediate flights out of any persons of interest. Sure, conspiracy theorists may believe every Saudi (or even every muslim) should have been held up and questioned, but those flights were normal flights, after airspace was opened.

[mikeysnot]

164. Did you read the book?

He pretty much documented everyone and who they were, before "commercial" flights were resumed.

[dixiegrrrrl]

66. Oh, well, if the 9-11 Commission can't be trusted, who can?

[barbtries]

86. snopes calls it false

then gives details of these flights. i'd say it was pretty damn suspicious that all these people had to leave the US so PDQ.

[hifiguy]

88. It was a few days after 9/11

Documented extensively in "House of Bush, House of Saud."

[boppers]

163. Lets count the errors:

" Why did G.W. Bush send a private plane around the country on 9-11...?

It is said that Bush sent a plane around the U.S. and whisked members of the Bin Laden Family out of the country before the FBI could interview them.

Is this true?"

1. It wasn't "a" private plane.
2. It wasn't sent by Bush.
3. It wasn't on 9/11
4. It was members of many families, not just Bin Ladens.
5. They weren't persons of official interest (so, there was no reason for the FBI to care).

So, 5 distortions.

Members of Bin Laden's family continue to fly in and out of the country, as they have been doing for many years before, and after, 9/11.

[lunatica]

29. It's true. Even as all other aircraft were grounded for days

The skies were shut down except for the one airplane that picked up the Bin Laden family members.

But that's just all a conspiracy theory dontcha know.

[Orrex]

44. Is it?

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flights.asp

[lunatica]

48. I was hoping the sarcasm was self-evident

Because when it comes to 9/11 I'm definitely a conspiracist. We're not being told the truth, whatever that is. I have my suspicions but I'm waiting for the truth whether it jives with my ideas or not. I just want the truth.

[KansDem]

70. Bush told the FBI not to interview members of the Saudi Royal Family

Just think, we might have caught OBL earlier if the FBI was permitted to do its job...

[mahina]

19. This just in.

How whipped are we? Any other supporting evidence needed for energy independence?
(I'm aware that only a portion of our fossil fuel imports come from the Middle East. Still.)

[Kolesar]

27. America has limited sovereignty on account of our energy dependency

The Saudis control us by buying the media and our "representatives".
Europe has a similar dependency problem on account of their gas supply from Putin's Russia.

[JJW]

20. No time to look back ....

we must forge ahead.

[Ichingcarpenter]

21. Bomb Iran!!!

Isn't that the normal reaction to the obvious?

[Fuddnik]

23. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have been playing us for suckers since the Reagan Administration.

And it continues today.

A good book on the history is "Ghost Wars".

[Fumesucker]

24. I was under the impression that conspiracy theories had their own forum/group here..

Anything other than the official 9/11 story is by definition a conspiracy theory.

[AnOhioan]

26. The "Official 9-11 Story" Available in your local library's fiction dept.

[bathroommonkey76]

142. What makes this article "fiction"?

[KansDem]

173. The "Official 9/11 Story"

...is a conspiracy theory.

[lunatica]

31. The only reason this hasn't been locked and exported to the other forum

Is because it's actually a news story.

[rhett o rick]

111. That's no excuse. We cant be upsetting the public. nm

I hope a sarcasm thingy isnt necessary.

[snooper2]

143. factual reporting is different than random tools posting that steel doesn't bend

[Fumesucker]

146. We already know the facts, the government told us..

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help them God..

Bending steel isn't difficult at all under the right conditions.

[coalition_unwilling]

199. The "official 9/11 story" itself is a conspiracy theory, so really it comes down to

competing conspiracy theories, imho, one sanctioned by the U.S. government and alternative narratives outside the sanction of the U.S. government.

Here's my problem with the 'official 9/11 story' - Bush's travels to Florida were a matter of public record and it was common knowledge what his schedule there was. So, after the second plane hit the WTC, why didn't the Secret Service get him out of there pronto and into hiding, IF WE WERE UNDER ATTACK BY FOREIGN TERRORISTS? The fact that the SS did not whisk Bush away ASAP suggests at least the possibility that someone in a high place knew Bush was not at risk. How could that someone have known that without being privy to the specifics of the plot?

I try not to think about it too much, as it tends to make me crazy (much like thinking about JFK's execution does).

[malaise]

25. Duh! n/t

[onehandle]

30. Yes, we invaded the wrong country. And it's not too late. Start with their giant embassy...

...in Washington D.C., as chronicled by Michael Moore.

Work your way from there.

[KansDem]

72. Yes, we invaded the wrong country...

...and now 100s of thousands of people, American soldiers and Iraqi citizens, are dead.

[flexnor]

77. no, we invaded the right country

saudi ariabia wanted iraq invaded, scud missiles from iraq landed in saudi arabia in the first gulf war

PS be carefull what you tweet about this on twitter, the saudi family now owns a big piece of twitter - bet they have a nice ip address collection of those who criticize the saudi family

[onehandle]

80. Dear Saudi Royal Family...

That being said, right after leaving home, I lived in an apartment building where several Saudi students shared an apartment. They were the nicest, friendliest, most generous people I had ever met. They frequently welcomed this starving artist into their home and fed me. I wish I had stayed in contact with them.

[newspeak]

124. doesn't one also sit on the board

of time-warner?

[leveymg]

32. These same wonderful people now pushing us into new ruinous wars in Syria and Iran

When will we ever learn?

[rrHeretic]

33. Really?

This is quite funny-posted under latest breaking news. I say it's funny because a chimp with an IQ of 3 would have deduced that the first week it happened. 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. Duh!!

[BeHereNow]

34. HOLY HELLLLLL!

Can we now talk about Paul Wellstone and other mysterious accidental "deaths?"
Like, say the guy who was flying to DC with 500 emails he captured implicating KKKarl's
part in spreading the wars and the "outing of Valerie Plame??????
War criminal? YES, without doubt.
http://uspolitics.about.com/od/politicalcommentary/a/plame_timeline.htm
To this very day, no one has demanded criminal prosecution of these crimes...\
why is that?
BHN

[ejbr]

35. Not only that! That Titanic sank! n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

62. On April 15th, tax day. Coincidence? I THINK NOT.

[midnight]

36. K&R

[Owlet]

37. Not to sound too cynical

but this wouldn't have anything to do with Kerrey's recent announcement that he is running for the Senate from Nebraska, would it? I like the guy, but the timing of the two does seem a bit odd.

[Carolina]

38. No kidding?!

15 out of the 19 hijackers were Saudi as was Osama bin Laden. Duh!

[wildeyed]

41. No shit!?!

Oh, but wait, we need their oil and GWB was all kissy face with them so I guess it is ok.

[RevStPatrick]

42. Some of us knew this by 9/12

And by 9/13 it was clear that a massive cover up was in the works.

[newspeak]

125. yeah, how advantageous for little boots

now, all we have to do is connect iraq with 9/11. Some of you want to shut down so called conspiracies? Well, the biggest lie told was that big bad iraq had the capacity to attack the us within minutes. You'll buy into that, but won't question what really went down on 9/11.

[hayrow1]

45. In my local Gannett chain fish wrap...

This story shared the front page with, "Surprisingly few pregnant women are virgins".

[Bruce Wayne]

49. Wht? Saudi Arabia, our ally, actually helped Iraq attack us?

Or was it really Manuel Noriega who was behind it all?

[The Doctor.]

50. "In June 2006 FBI’s chief of investigative publicity, Rex Tomb, saw no hard evidence

Connecting bin Laden to 9/11."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden#Criminal_charges


Bin Laden was wanted in connection with acts other than the 9/11 attacks, yet he was fingered immediately for 9/11.

[KansDem]

189. The FBI had Osama on its "10 Most Wanted" list

But not for 9/11--

Usama Bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. These attacks killed over 200 people. In addition, Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/usama-bin-laden

[2Design]

51. duh

[Muskypundit]

54. You all sound like freepers now.

'Most of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, that must mean the Saudi Arabian government did it!!11!!!!1!!!1!

Wonderful fucking reasoning skills. Your just a small step, and it truly is a small step, from saying 'All the hijackers were Muslims, that means all Muslims are responsible for 9/11'.

[Hugabear]

57. Did you even bother reading the OP

Sens. Graham and Kerry are saying there is at least some evidence tying the Saudi government to some of the hijackers.

There has been speculation for quite some time that there may have been some Saudi involvement.

[Enrique]

195. yes but some responses say that evidence is not necessary

they "know" that the Saudis were involved.

[ieoeja]

98. Thank you.

[BelgianMadCow]

115. the info about the money trail was redacted out of the commission report.

I remember that vividly. Follow the money (not).

Then again, I followed this from the beginning on DU, which was really ahead of the curve. Too bad there came a dungeon for this topic.

The open discussion of a government link is pretty big news.

[BadGimp]

56. This is ALL because Bob Kerry is running for the Senate Seat in NE..

This is part of the right wing establishments smear effort. He announced yesterday and today this comes out.

[KG]

63. anybody still believe that 9-11 (official version) was planned and controlled from a cave

in one of the most backwards country on the planet (afghanistan)?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

217. No

Saudis must have access to our defense system, Mr Bush

[progressoid]

64. What!?! Next they'll be saying that water is wet.

[Lint Head]

65. The wrong country was invaded by the US.

Can we prosecute now?

[nolabels]

186. If you might notice, mostly the US population are descendants of a kind of invader

It's kind of feels like a no-wonder kind of thing when our current government spends so much of our resources invading other places

[AllyCat]

67. You don't say?! You mean since most of the hijackers were Saudi might mean something?

Couple of real geniuses that they are the FIRST to seem to notice this in our pathetic Congress.

[KansDem]

68. 15 of the 19 attackers carried Saudi passports

2 were from the UAE.

So, 17 of the 19 attackers, or 89%, were either friends and business partners of the Bush Family or had ties to Cheney's Halliburton.

And we're just now figuring this out?

[tpsbmam]

69. This is a no shit Sherlock, IMO.

A whole lot of us were shouting this from early on but nooooooo, god forbid Bush go after his Saudi buddies!



Nooooooooo, he and his cabal have to phony up what many of us knew was a bullshit case against Iraq. It was CLEAR all along that Saudi Arabia was intimately linked. Hell, to start with.....15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were Saudi!

Pathetic. Totally fucking pathetic this is being alleged now.

[loudsue]

73. Duh? Ya think? Bush's best family friends & PNAC document?

Only the stupidest people on the planet don't know how deeply the saudi government and the bush mafia /military industrial complex were in bed together on that one. Just building the 6 - acre embassy in Iraq ALONE netted Cheney's and bush's buddies about 3 billion (that's BILLION w/ a "B" ) dollars.

[flexnor]

74. just because all of the hijackers were saudi?!?!

am i the only one in this country that noticed that people from a nation (that has a ton of money, and very, very close ties to the President's (in 2001) family), hijacked our planes, flew them into our buildings, then as 'revenge' we take out that nation's enemies, one by one?

[raouldukelives]

75. K&R

One step closer to having truth & justice prevail. It's been over ten years. It'd be nice to actually start going after the people behind that horrible day for change.

[flexnor]

76. in the 10 years that have passed, it has never been denied that most hijackers were saudi

yet, in all of the talking pin-head millions of hours of bla bla bla 911 bla bla bla 911 weapons of mass destruction 911 wipe israel off the map bla bla

i'e rarely ever heard the issue of the hijackers being saudi ever seriously discussed

that really says a lot about our media, and haveing followed the h-1b visa issue from a few years before that, sadly, i didnt learn anything new

our media is little more than a wall of lies to destroy the average american's ability to think about what the powers that be and our government are really doing

[librechik]

78. Gee, dja think? Where are the 28 pages redacted from the 9/11 Commission report

alll about Saudi Arabia's involvement. Somebody still has those. I predict we will see those on the 12th of Never.

[Odin2005]

81. No shit!

[sofa king]

83. And Bob Graham ought to know.

Seeing as he was enjoying breakfast with the guy who wired the money to the hijackers, and the future head of the Bush CIA, with a fine view of the Pentagon....

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO206A.html

...While Poppy Bush was also watching the attack with Osama bin Laden's brother from the other side of the Mall.

http://www.economist.com/node/1875084

So yeah, I'd say Bob might be on to something there.

[Major Hogwash]

84. Ooh, there's some guts, Kerrey's running for office this year!

Man, it would be hard to find a better man than him to put back in the Senate this year.

[DianaForRussFeingold]

85. I wish they would have both done something sooner

Last edited Thu Mar 1, 2012, 03:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Finding the truth doesn't seem to matter anymore... They both voted yes on the war resolution authorizing the invasion of Iraq?

Michael Moore was right and I'm sorry I ever laughed
at Fahrenheit 911..
I just found this video...please tell me this doesn't exist..

Edited to add: I don't know what kind of control is on Congress but they need to stop this insanity or we'll be at war with Iran..

I post information,I find on from DU' to help my Facebook friends see this president is THE best chance for the future...
I'm going to try and get as many democrats as possible.. back in office...!

[hifiguy]

87. This is something that the Bush Crime Family

has always known and has resolutely tried to bury. Eventually the truth WILL come out.

[Uncle Joe]

89. BREAKING NEWS! THIS JUST IN! STRONG EVIDENCE LINKING JAPAN TO ATTACK ON PEARL HARBOR!

There are also unsubstantiated rumors that Mexico has taken the Alamo!

Stay tuned for further developments.

Thanks for the thread, alp.

[appleannie1]

90. Most intelligent, informed people have known that for years.

[Myrina]

91. And they were ALL ON THE PILL!!!

See? That contraception's evil stuff I tells ya!!

Well, ok probably not.

[Old and In the Way]

93. Wasn't there wire transfers from one of the Royals to 2 of the hijackers that were fingered?

We had all of the hijackers ID'd on 9/12. 15/19 were Sauds. So how did we punish them?

(1) Gave safe passage for the Royals out of the US while the entire air space was shut down.
(2) Exited the military bases in Saudi Arabia
(3) Invaded and took out the #1 secular threat on their SA's Eastern border - a country with no link to 9/11
(4) Pretty much took the #2 producer of oil out of play - making their reserves even more valuable.

I'd say the House of Saud made out pretty well, considering they had actual citizens involved in 9/11.

Of course, the strangest coincidence of all - Poppy Bush in a Carlyle Group board meeting with the bin Laden family on the morning of 9/11.

[frylock]

95. this just in from the "no shit, sherlock" desk..

water is found to be wet. film at 11.

[davidthegnome]

96. Why wasn't the evidence pursued?

Our reliance on Saudi Arabia for oil/financial reasons? Was it a scheme put together by some on our side and some on theirs? I think the question that needs to be asked is who stood to profit most from the invasion of Afghanistan and after - the invasion of Iraq. It would take someone with more knowledge than I to connect the dots... but I do not trust anything that happened during the Bush years. I only half trust this current administration.

[L. Coyote]

97. This story pops today because ???

Bob Kerrey is running for Senator from Nebraska?

[rocktivity]

99. Candidate for this year's "You Call This NEWS?" Award

Wait. What? I mean, weren't the majority of them Saudi Arabians?


rocktivity

[Rosa Luxemburg]

106. Doesn't Saudi Arabian own Foxs News (Newscorp)

[peace frog]

100. Bob Graham was my state's governor

as well as senator, and Florida sorely needs leaders of his caliber now. Rick Scott isn't fit to wipe your boots, Bob.

[Festivito]

101. Would Saudis be mentioned in the REDACTED parts of the 911 report? Oh my!

Who would not know that having spent five minutes on the topic on the internet?

How many dummies do we have in this country.

[Diclotican]

102. alp227

alp227

I have been telling that for at least a decade... But allways been shutting down, by pepole who claim that Saudi-Arabia could not do that - to an allied... And that I should step close, to claim it at all....

Saudi-Arabia have to years and years showing false collour when it came to the United States of America.. They might not directly stand behind it all, but dam they do supported it...

Diclotican

[newspeak]

123. I think it's follow the money

I don't think that sociopaths care about the people in this country--we are collateral damage, just like those we are told to fight. Who has profited big time for the war in Iraq. Remember the bullshite, the catapulting the propaganda on TV? They preyed on our fears. Oh, iraq has the capacity to hit the US within so many seconds. Yes, iraq was secular, and had one of the oldest christian groups there before we bombed the shite out of them. Iraq was a check against iran. Al quaeda was no friend of saddam.

I have no love for the saudi government. SA has one of the worst human rights records, especially when it comes to women. At least Iran allows their women to vote and drive. Of course, those politicians who cater to their corporate masters, any old tyrannical government will do as long as they can do business with them.

To me, little boots, didn't give a damn about this country or the people; as long as his family benefited (and his friends).

[Diclotican]

137. newspeak

newspeak

It is allways "follow the money" and you wil find the truth.. The problem is maybe most, that it is not easy to follow that money, as the big players is dam good at hiding where the money goes - and where it goes from.. You need to have some economical insigt to really understanding where everything fit togheterer..

Iraq was one big MF***** cluster for US, and the "coalisation of the willing" US and specially the neo-conservative had Iraq in their crossairs long before 11 SEPT 2001, in fact Clinton get dokuments, from the neo-conservative allready in 1995-96 where they "adviced" him to get into Iraq.. He refused, and the Levinsky affair blow up in his face...

And Iraq was also one of the oldest statets where a christian minority had been living, in peace for more than 2000 year.. In fact many early christians was leaving the roman empire under the prosecutions there, to the relative saftey in the Parthian Empire. And even after the Parthian and the Roman Empires siezed to exist, the christians was there in modern Iraq, and even part of the government.. Tarqiz Aziz, was a christian.. And he was at one point, second in command after Saddam Hussain.. The US did more harm than the opposite with toppling Saddam Hussain..Not that Im sad he is gone, but I do have never been in agreement with the US Iraq War of 2003.. That was based on lies, made by lies, and now we all are in a F*** becouse of it...

And it is also correct, Al-Qauda and many other groups was no friends of the Saddams.. And this type of groups was defeated by the Iraqi armed forces all the time.. SPecially the last decade when it looks like Saddam Hussain was weaking and was ready to be attaced and repleaced by a more Islamic Republic.. Now when US did the dirty job, that can still be the case, when the dust in the Iraqi Sivil War finally settle somewhere down the road...

The Saudi-Arabian government have a record no one should be proud of, thats for true.. Even Iran, who many in the US want to destroy have a better record, when it came to human rights - at least to womans.. Not that it does to mutch in the grand scale of things.. Iran is not excactly a model community for human rights - at least not yet..

Little boots dosen't care about anyone else than their self.. And their masters and their friends. That have been the the facts since time imortall. As long as we fall for the fear, the anger, and want to strike out and punish "enemies" sociopaths, and "little boots" wil have a field day.. If we want to stop them, we have to evolve a little more Im afraid... Or to look true the lies before they can make it happend.. And that is not allways easy..

Diclotican

[newspeak]

209. who did the put options before 9/11?

It seems nobody knows. Why?

[Norrin Radd]

104. kr

[mistertrickster]

108. File that under "No Shit." nt

[saras]

109. Give it another decade - "I'm not a truther but the truthers were right about everything..."

Kind of like what they say about hippies now.

The NSA has every phone call made by the "terrorists" - the number and location at both ends, and all the contents of the conversations - from the very beginning of the planning until after the Bin Laden family was removed from the country.

At some point that record will become public, as well as the records of who suppressed the information when they tried to pass it on to the CIA and FBI. The record will be looked at by historians, and they'll pretty much settle on who did what when, including documenting how thoroughly we were snowed by the leadup, the events, the immediate cover-up, and the later investigation.

[rhett o rick]

110. So what? It's not like anyone is going to do anything about it.

I think the Saudi's own a good deal of the USofA including a good share of Congress.

[closeupready]

145. This. End of thread.

nt

[underpants]

112. We have known this for a long time

[wildbilln864]

113. well duh!!! nt

[asfghjtyk]

118. Spam deleted by uppityperson (MIR Team)

[asfghjtyk]

119. Spam deleted by uppityperson (MIR Team)

[blackspade]

126. Shocked....Not.

This has been obvious for years to most observers.

[lovuian]

128. Aschcroft letting the Bin Laudin family get away

was the biggest give away

[cqo_000]

129. Why would the the Saudi government take part in a terrorist atttack on the United States?

...

[patrice]

131. To cater to their dissident extreme-fundamentalist-Islam Shia minority, who severely critique

royal House of Saud decadence and which Shia demographic in the region cross 2 borders: Iran->Iraq, in both of which countries Shia are the definite majority, and Iraq-> Saudi Arabia and in SA they are a small but virulent minority, which is one of the reasons that OBL was in Afghanistan, he'd been pressured out of SA, because of his rabble rousing ways with SA's extreme Shia.

I think another reason has to do with whether oil would be re-denominated in Euros at the time, so triggering a war in the region could be used to extract a better deal with either side of that issue.

[Nambe]

136. I have a theory...not a fact.

GHW Bush made a rather lengthy visit to the major oil producers and shortly after OPEC was announced. Iraq rudely said FU to OPEC and GHW Bush. The Saudi's, being the heart of OPEC (taking blame for oil prices), and the Neocons are now partners in war crimes.
Just a theory that helps me make sense of the strategic bombing of a civilian population.

[patrice]

144. Bing-fracking-go!! on "... the strategic bombing of a civilian population" in more instances than

just one.

[grahamhgreen]

132. We need a real 911 investigation - the whole thing stinks.

[Nambe]

135. 9-11 Widows Issue Statement - Demand Answers

These women have not finished their battle for truth.
http://www.ibrattleboro.com/article.php/20061008125706239

[Ian62]

140. Why was Airport Security not stepped up in the face of so many prior warnings?

So many countries warned the US: Afghanistan, Argentina, Britain, Cayman Islands, Egypt, France, Germany, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Morocco, and Russia.
Several of these warned of imminent attacks involving airplanes or airports.
So why wasn't airport and airspace security stepped up by the Bush regime?

This question was specifically excluded from the 9/11 Commission report. Again why?

http://www.historycommons.org/essay.jsp?article=essaytheytriedtowarnus

[lutefisk]

148. They stepped up security for themselves...

"Ashcroft used to fly commercial, just as Janet Reno did. So why, two months before Sept. 11, did he start taking chartered government planes?"

If they had been on the Titanic, the Bush gang would have shoved the women and children overboard to get in the lifeboats first.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2002/06/03/hsorensen.DTL#ixzz1nyxdh42d

[SomeGuyInEagan]

150. Quiet, please. We're supposed to be moving on. n/t

[wildbilln864]

151. kick! nt

[aquart]

152. Duh.

[Devil_Fish]

153. Not LBN. We have known this since about 9/15/01

[L0oniX]

154. No shit! Duh! Fucking stupid idiots! We need them to tell us that??? WTF

[dfgrehe]

155. Spam deleted by cbayer (MIR Team)

[BadtotheboneBob]

157. The Truth Is Out There...

... But, will we ever know what it is? Probably not...

[KansDem]

160. "May be?"

How about "is?"

15 of the 19 attackers carried Saudi passports. The Saudis' cabana boy Bush refused to let the FBI interview any of OBL's relatives and flew them out of the US as quickly as possible.

There's much more to tie the Bushistas to the Saudis.

And the media consensus is "may be"...???

[Cleita]

165. I think Michael Moore pointed it out rather clearly in his

movie, "Fahrenheit 9/11". Too bad it's taken ten years for others to look into it.

[sarcasmo]

166. The no shit, Dick Tracy file.

[may3rd]

167. Maybe that weapons bill passed last week can be used to for a group that can bring change to Saudi A

get some freedom fighters from Lybia,Syria and Egypt willing to to make some covert videos from inside the country depicting abuses and such.
the usual eye opening images that can make their way to the internet and reach out for help.

We shouldn't have to bow to the oil baron or his organizations that control the people

[Enrique]

171. we just made the biggest weapons deal ever, with Saudi Arabia

and who are they most likely to use them against? Who is the biggest threat to Saudi Arabia? The Saudi people, of course.

[sarcasmo]

174. The no shit Dick Tracy award.

[MrMickeysMom]

175. Well, it sure as hell wasn't anybody from Iraq...

I thought we understood this, already...

Up is Down, No is Yes... short term memory is hauled away, along the remnants of the World Trade Towers...

How long is it going to take to treat crime scenes like crimes scenes, anyway?

[Demonaut]

176. never a doubt in my mind since it happened

[Autumn]

178. Ya think?

[nadinbrzezinski]

190. In other news water is wet

Why I said many a times we went to war with the wrong country. FYI Saudi Arabia is a state actor in more ways than Afghanistan.

[Carolina]

191. Ya think?

15 of the 19 hijackers plus bin Laden were all Saudi Arabian. The remaining 4 were from Yemen, Egypt and the United Arab Emirates (think Dubai, Halliburton land!).

Too little, too late. Many of us knew this years ago and wondered why the complicit press never challenged Bushco's plans to attack Afghanistan and then Iraq?

Hell, if the plan was to attack any place that had anything to do with the hijackers, then logically Arizona, Florida and other US "hot spots" where the hijackers hatched their plan and more importantly learned to fly (!!!!) should have been on the list!

[Enrique]

196. the "no shit" responses really bother me

I know the reasons for suspecting the Saudis, I saw Fahrenheit 9/11 for example, and I came to DU right after 9/11 and

But it hasn't been fully investigated, and so it never got to the level of proof. Now here are two prominent senators saying there should be more investigation. I saw this and thought it was a bombshell that the media couldn't ignore, but indeed they are ignoring it, and DUers with their "duh" repsonses imho are making the same mistake. Very frustrating.

[Charronxyz]

203. right! let's invade another country...

How we love to pass the blame, I suppose the Saudis are also responsible for the anthrax letters that came from US government's biodefense labs at Fort Detrick in Frederick, Maryland ?

[nebenaube]

205. This concludes today's test for outing the current batch of tax-paid disinformation agents...

thank you for participating...

[KansDem]

210. KnR...Let this be the "thread that never dies."

The "official" 9/11 report is the real conspiracy theory.

Demand the truth...

[elleng]

213. Good idea, to keep this alive.

Senator Graham wrote a book, a novel but based, imo, on facts he learned on the Committee. Its out now in paperback, entitled Keys to the Kingdom. He appeared at a signing, at Politics and Prose DC recently, where I met him and he signed my copy.

[RebelOne]

218. So what else is new?

This is old news. It has been a known fact for a long time.

[Marthe48]

220. Salem bin Laden/Arbusto Oil Bush's failed oil company

Salem bin Laden was Osama's older brother. He was an investor in GWB oil business, which failed. Then he was killed in a plane crash. How small is the world that Bush the crappy businessman happens to have business dealings with the brother of the man who becomes the (sort of) most wanted terrorist in the world when Bush is pretending to be legally elected leader of the free world?
When the events of 911 happened, I wanted to be a good American and rally around the White House. I could not. I tried for 3 weeks and it was like forcing myself to believe lies, to drink poison. I looked on the net, other places, to stayed informed. I saved tons of information on my old laptop, in case the citizen investigation was ever taken seriously. I believe that there are enough unanswered questions, enough ends that don't tie together that I cannot personally accept the official story.

We had a school project when we were kids. Blow up a balloon and then cover it with plaster, then pop the balloon and make an Easter egg or something. My balloon kept popping when I tried to cover it with plaster. The Bush/Cheney/other traitors story is like the balloon and the facts are like the plaster. Someday, their balloon is going to pop. In the meantime, Bush?Cheney/other traitors still suck money from us the taxpayers and pretend they did good things. I hope that the old saying that 'justice grinds exceedingly slow, but grinds exceedingly fine' comes true for them.