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muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 07:52 PM Nov 2013

Far-right rioters leave trail of destruction in Polish capital

Source: Reuters

Polish police used rubber bullets on Monday to break up groups of masked far-right youths who threw firecrackers and set fire to cars when a nationalist march through the centre of the capital turned violent.
...
The violence started when a few dozen youths, their faces covered by balaclavas and football scarves, broke off from the procession into a side street and started attacking a building where left-wing radicals occupied a squat.

Riot police moved in, and came under attack from youths throwing firecrackers and stones. As the rioters dispersed, several cars were set on fire.
...
An arch across the middle of the square, decorated in rainbow colours with artificial flowers, had become a symbol of tolerance and diversity. By Monday evening, after the rioters had passed through and set it on fire, all that was left of the arch was a charred, steel skeleton.

Read more: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/11/11/uk-poland-nationalists-march-idUKBRE9AA0NB20131111





http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24902058
13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Far-right rioters leave trail of destruction in Polish capital (Original Post) muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 OP
People never fucking learn, do they? MinneapolisMatt Nov 2013 #1
Many Poles were notorious for collaborating with the Nazis. Archae Nov 2013 #2
So sad. MinneapolisMatt Nov 2013 #4
Oh I don't know. They are probably drunken hooligans, like closeupready Nov 2013 #10
That got undermined quite a lot after the war Posteritatis Nov 2013 #13
Very conservative country. A majority are old guard anti-semetic Catholics. Dawson Leery Nov 2013 #3
It's not just in Poland. octoberlib Nov 2013 #5
Corrupt governments that don't serve the public, historically, closeupready Nov 2013 #11
Riots tend to be economic related. happyslug Nov 2013 #6
You're giving the marchers a large benefit of the doubt muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #7
"The principal target of the rioters appeared to be any manifestation of left-wing, liberal views." pampango Nov 2013 #8
Clearly . . . Brigid Nov 2013 #9
I would venture to say that our "problem on the right" is much less than Poland's. Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #12

MinneapolisMatt

(1,550 posts)
1. People never fucking learn, do they?
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 08:54 PM
Nov 2013

One would think in Poland of all places they'd know a little more about what fascism did to their country just a few decades ago.

Archae

(46,337 posts)
2. Many Poles were notorious for collaborating with the Nazis.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 09:02 PM
Nov 2013

Even today with very few Jews left in Poland, anti-Semitism is still rampant.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
10. Oh I don't know. They are probably drunken hooligans, like
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 11:48 AM
Nov 2013

soccer fans and their violence. Wouldn't take this seriously at all, IMO.

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
13. That got undermined quite a lot after the war
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 07:38 PM
Nov 2013

The Soviets weren't really big on encouraging eastern European countries to be introspective about what fascism did to them, or how they were affected by it. It was seen as an outside thing that was imposed by the (usually) Evil Neighbors Or Other External Forces, and when you push that viewpoint long enough it gets pretty hard to take responsibility for one's actions when going the same route. ("This isn't real fascism! We're not Germans!&quot

There's a reason most of the really thriving hate movements in Europe - not all, to be sure, but definitely most - tend to be in places that were on the other side of the Iron Curtain. That thing's gone but it'll still be decades before the region's fully healed.

octoberlib

(14,971 posts)
5. It's not just in Poland.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 09:56 PM
Nov 2013
It is also Europe’s new reality. All over, established political forces are losing ground to politicians whom they scorn as fear-mongering populists. In France, according to a recent opinion poll, the far-right National Front has become the country’s most popular party. In other countries — Austria, Britain, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Finland and the Netherlands — disruptive upstart groups are on a roll.

“History reminds us that high unemployment and wrong policies like austerity are an extremely poisonous cocktail,” said Poul Nyrup Rasmussen, a former Danish prime minister and a Social Democrat. “Populists are always there. In good times it is not easy for them to get votes, but in these bad times all their arguments, the easy solutions of populism and nationalism, are getting new ears and votes.”



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/09/world/europe/right-wings-surge-in-europe-has-the-establishment-rattled.html?hp&_r=2&
 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
11. Corrupt governments that don't serve the public, historically,
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 11:52 AM
Nov 2013

do fall to the elitists' boogeyman, "populism".

I guess the rise of the far-right should serve as a clarion call to Western governments (or wherever the far-right is ascendant) that you let people go hungry and even die for lack of medical care at the risk that people will demand radical change.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
6. Riots tend to be economic related.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 10:41 PM
Nov 2013

Racism is often stated in Riots, but it is rarely the reason. This started as a peaceful march, and sounds like it was mostly peaceful:

The violence started when a few dozen youths, their faces covered by balaclavas and football scarves, broke off from the procession into a side street and started attacking a building where left-wing radicals occupied a squat.

The Russians have their own prospective on this riot:

"This is where it happened. Today is the day of Poland's independence. The most important thing - independence from Russia. Polish are always fighting with someone here, Russia is still an enemy. Media and politics are saying that all the problems in Poland come from Russia. And today, many people who gathered for March are bandits, nationalists. They gather, walk every year through half of Warsaw, and each year incidents happen. It is the first time though when the Russian embassy was attacked. They have demonstrations every year, but it was the first time when they threw petrol bombs. They have set fire to the police booth, wanted to climb over the fence, but the police acted well, a large number of Polish officers interfered very quickly"

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_11_11/Riots-in-Warsaw-Russian-embassy-attacked-reports-1174/

A group of about 60 young men, some with balaclavas and scarves covering their faces, broke away from a far-right march through the center of Warsaw and started attacking a building where left-wing squatters had hung a banner.

Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_11_11/Riots-in-Warsaw-Russian-embassy-attacked-reports-1174/

Most of Sunday's 100,000-person National Day march was peaceful.

http://rt.com/news/poland-clashes-independence-day-463/

Sounds like a group of 60 Right wing radicals decided to use the March as a staging point to attack a similar number of lefties holding a "squat".

A report from the "Squat" that was attacked, It is held by lefties but the the first object of the 60 right wingers:

http://en.squat.net/tag/poland/

Here is they statement on the attack, please note it is computer translated from Polish:

Statement by the collective "Ambulance" on the attack
November 12th, 2013
At about 15.45 the community center clinic przypuszczono planned attack by the so-called. "March of Independence". Only by mastering and cold-blooded residents and residents of the building, managed to fend off the nationalist aggression and there were no victims, only a few wounded.

The neo-fascists were not prepared to comment on the matter in the media and immediately informed that the persons present in the squat attacked from the roof of their march stones. For obvious reasons this was not possible, since the end of the street. Shell, where there is a building, is located about 200 meters from the street. Marshal, he passed nationalist march.

As recorded in several films, paramilitary formation called the Guard March of Independence, which was to secure the assembly, at the height of st. Shells parted to allow the passage of armed and prepared to attack bojówce in force of several hundred people. Participants in the March of Independence of flares, stones and bottles stormed into the Clinic. Nationalists set fire to one car, destroyed another and damaged the building, trying to get to us, but fortunately we were able to repel the attack. This was achieved only by wartom issued earlier on the roof (we received death threats for a long time) and the rapid response of hybrid extinguishing thrown into the race.

We note that although clusters of police even just a few hundred meters, it's been 20 minutes the staff had any intervention. If we listen to the recommendations of the police and ignored the threat, squat now would be burned.

Goebbels propaganda National Movement traditionally tries to turn the event into hooliganism - despite the fact that it was officially designated March released militants fire, and after the attack allowed and helped them to escape. We are now preparing for the next attack, be vigilant!

The anti-fascist salute,
Collective Clinic


http://przychodnia.bzzz.net/

It sounds like a 60 man "team" or right wingers wanted to attack some lefties and decided the lefties squatting in an apartment building was a good target. The eighties seems to have called ahead, more to make sure it any attack would look like an even fight then any thing else. The Lefties complain that the Police did not respond as soon as they could have, but 20 minutes response time while over viewing a march that the Police feared would turn violent, would still be in reasonable (i.e. The delay MAY have been caused by the police being busy elsewhere OR may have been police policy, the delay itself proves nothing).

muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
7. You're giving the marchers a large benefit of the doubt
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 06:32 AM
Nov 2013

by saying it was just 60 who did something wrong. Notice that the squatters say the 'security' the marchers provided for themselves parted to allow the 60 pre-armed rioters through to make the attacks.

Violence from the march had been predicted, because it happened before:

Far-right faction gears up for Warsaw march during UN climate conference, sparking fears for delegates’ safety

Ashley Renders, Special to National Post | 01/11/13 3:55 PM ET

Warsaw has several parades celebrating Independence Day on November 11. The “March of Independence” parade — organized by All-Polish Youth and National Radical Camp, two far-right groups aimed at young Poles — has turned violent in the past, clashing with police and left-wing groups.

In 2011, there were 210 arrests, 40 police officers injured and 14 police cars destroyed. And in 2012, the BBC reported that police fired rubber bullets and tear gas at an estimated crowd of 20,000 “Polish patriots, nationalists and football hooligans” who were throwing fireworks and bricks at police.
...
While some blame Europe’s economic crisis for the rise of the far-right in Europe, research showed it “usually has more to do with cultural anxieties than with economic concerns,” said Ms. Ramalingam.

“People feel they are in an identity conflict with certain minorities — whether that is Muslim communities in some Western European countries or LGBT communities in Poland,” she said.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/11/01/far-right-faction-gears-up-for-warsaw-march-during-un-climate-conference-sparking-fears-for-delegates-safety/

pampango

(24,692 posts)
8. "The principal target of the rioters appeared to be any manifestation of left-wing, liberal views."
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 09:40 AM
Nov 2013
After the crowd had moved on from the squat, leaving it littered with burned debris and broken glass, one of the squatters accused the police of failing to hold back the far-right protesters. “You have unleashed fascist dogs on us,” he said.

Later, the rioters moved on to Zbawiciela Square, one of the most bohemian areas of central Warsaw, where students usually hang out in trendy pavement cafes. An arch across the middle of the square, decorated in rainbow colours with artificial flowers, had become a symbol of tolerance and diversity. On Monday evening, after the rioters had passed through and set it on fire, all that was left of the arch was a charred, steel skeleton.

Many Poles have grown wealthier in the past few years, but a minority feel alienated and believe traditional values on marriage, abortion and the church have been swept aside. “I believe that Polishness is under threat,” said one marcher, Grzegorz, who said he was 30. “The Polish government is incompetent and a threat to Polishness.”

Before the violence broke out, marchers chanted: “God, honour, fatherland!” and waved the red-and-white national flag. Another protester, who gave his name as Mateusz, said he had come to “manifest my patriotism”.

Riot police formed a cordon around the Russian embassy, as part of the crowd headed. Many Polish nationalists dislike Russia, their country’s former colonial ruler.

http://www.euronews.com/2013/11/11/poland-far-right-rioters-leave-trail-of-destruction-in-warsaw/

“The Polish government is incompetent and a threat to Polishness.” - And rioting, burning and attacking are not a threat to Polishness?

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
12. I would venture to say that our "problem on the right" is much less than Poland's.
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:11 PM
Nov 2013

I don't like the Tea Party but they don't typically start violent anti-Semitic riots.

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